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chitoryu12 posted:"Regime change" against a warlord using local tribes to maintain a fiefdom. Yep, every route except Wild Card (and even then only some variations of it) are outsiders invading and forcing their will on the people of Mojave. House, the NCR, and Legion all give no fucks about the sovereignty of the Mojave and its citizens, it's just a means to their ends.
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Apr 1, 2022 03:33
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Reminder the courier is an outsider too. There is no ending that isn't someone enforcing their will onto the wasteland
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Apr 1, 2022 03:34
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Gaius Marius posted:Reminder the courier is an outsider too. There is no ending that isn't someone enforcing their will onto the wasteland Isn't the Courier a resident of the Mojave? I suppose the most anarchic ending is to do the Yes Man route, but destroy the Securitrons under the Fort, and encourage every faction to remain independent.
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Apr 1, 2022 03:38
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Chamale posted:Isn't the Courier a resident of the Mojave? iirc there isn't a single "right" answer about the history of the courier. There's a bunch of dialogue about places the courier has been, but I'm not aware of anything in particular about where they live
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Apr 1, 2022 03:48
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Just a friendly reminder that tomorrow is a certain day
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Apr 1, 2022 03:51
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TheFlyingLlama posted:iirc there isn't a single "right" answer about the history of the courier. There's a bunch of dialogue about places the courier has been, but I'm not aware of anything in particular about where they live We know he's been to new Reno. And we also know nobody from the Mojave recognizes or remembers him except Nash. He isn't from the mojave
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Apr 1, 2022 04:14
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Byzantine posted:My favorite part of The New Vegas Discourse is the people who just get so mad about House they openly endorse regime change and resource wars. People here are pretty aware that the NCR's ambitions are nakedly imperialist, but you're mischaracterizing both their points and the setting itself. As others have pointed out, all the factions arrived in and began setting up shop at the same time. House was not a head of state who administrated Vegas, he woke up about the same time the Legion and the NCR rolled into the Mojave and then forced a bunch of tribes to cosplay for his casinos at gunpoint. Vegas wasn't and hasn't been a state, it was a collection of tribes and towns getting along with or fighting each other until seven or eight years before the beginning of the game, and now a warlord has set up an economic zone in part of the ruins. There is no sovereign power you are overturning. There is no state or government. None of the powers have territorial or legal right to Hoover Dam or what lies on the western side of it, only right of arms. All three factions are outsiders to the people of Vegas with designs upon its land and infrastructure. Gaius Marius posted:We know he's been to new Reno. And we also know nobody from the Mojave recognizes or remembers him except Nash. He isn't from the mojave Or he could be from the Mojave and walked westward two decades ago, depending on how old your courier is. Or he could've been part of a small community and got into this courier thing and just hasn't happened to run across anyone he used to know; I don't think the people we see in New Vegas are supposed to be all of them, just like New Vegas itself isn't supposed to just be two or so miles long.
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Apr 1, 2022 04:27
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House is the only one native to the Mojave.
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Apr 1, 2022 04:35
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Byzantine posted:House is the only one native to the Mojave. House is native to Las Vegas, Nevada. Both the city and the state (edit: and its people) have been gone for 200 years. He's been in the same geographical region since, but he's never one of the Mojave's people. The world he was a native to is gone and he's woken up to a strange one--one he immediately tried to force into his own vision of exploitative Old World decadence with force of arms. But accepting that logic, the Think Tank has as much claim and justification for what they're doing to people and what they want to further do because they were also located in the same geographic region for a long time. And they've been far more active, even! Ironslave fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Apr 1, 2022 |
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Apr 1, 2022 04:57
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Basic Chunnel posted:Just a friendly reminder that tomorrow is a certain day Ah poo poo. BACK UP YOUR MODS!
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Apr 1, 2022 05:34
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Byzantine posted:House is the only one native to the Mojave. He's an eldritch horror from a nearly completely forgotten age exerting his will through machines to reshape the world into one from an ancient memory, bending and twisting to the breaking point. Ozymandias's poltergeist haunting the Mojave.
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Apr 1, 2022 05:47
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There is nothing non human about House.
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Apr 1, 2022 05:48
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Gaius Marius posted:There is nothing non human about House. Ghostly and Uncanny tho. And his robots aren't human.
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Apr 1, 2022 05:50
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Gaius Marius posted:There is nothing non human about House. I'd say quasi-immortality is pretty non human
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Apr 1, 2022 06:05
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StandardVC10 posted:I'd say quasi-immortality is pretty non human We got ourselves a regular Tenpenny over here!
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Apr 1, 2022 06:08
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If House could wear a sombrero like Raul, people would like him more.
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Apr 1, 2022 06:11
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StandardVC10 posted:I'd say quasi-immortality is pretty non human Do you think ghouls are inhuman?
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Apr 1, 2022 06:12
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Do ghouls, as they're written, consider themselves human?
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Apr 1, 2022 06:13
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House's ambitions, desires, methods, and perspective are all very, unpleasantly human. Edit: And human is broadly worthless as an adjective. The real meaning in it is in why someone might apply, deny, or reject it as a label.
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Apr 1, 2022 06:13
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Yeah. In the simplest terms they're human because killing one should be considered murder and not a slaughter. Same with supermutants and odd cases like the think tank. Or in theological terms they have a soul.
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Apr 1, 2022 06:17
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oh jay posted:We got ourselves a regular Tenpenny over here! Gaius Marius posted:Do you think ghouls are inhuman? I actually forgot about ghouls and super mutants being quasi-immortal as well. In my defense, the game presents House very differently for a couple reasons - intentionality (we've yet to meet anyone who chose to be a ghoul and successfully became one, as far as I know,) and how he interacts with the world (ghouls can do everything humans can; House literally can't do anything but impose his vision on the world through a TV screen.) Ironslave posted:House's ambitions, desires, methods, and perspective are all very, unpleasantly human. The only difference being unlike Caesar, he doesn't have the common courtesy to just eventually die. Imperialism is one thing - imperialism that is functionally eternal is something else. StandardVC10 fucked around with this message at 06:25 on Apr 1, 2022 |
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Apr 1, 2022 06:23
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oh jay posted:If House could wear a sombrero like Raul, people would like him more. There's probably a mod for that and if there isn't there should be.
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Apr 1, 2022 06:23
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Caeser is attempting to create an eternal ethos in his state though. While he himself won't live forever, if his state can outlast him it could be hundreds of years before it collapses. Likewise the NCR has already engaged itself in imperial endeavors throughout multiple administrations. They may lack a singular immortal but the bureaucratic apparatus can become so.
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Apr 1, 2022 06:30
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StandardVC10 posted:The only difference being unlike Caesar, he doesn't have the common courtesy to just eventually die. Imperialism is one thing - imperialism that is functionally eternal is something else. House is usually that courteous in my play throughs. Even if I have to teach him some manners.
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Apr 1, 2022 06:33
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Arc Hammer posted:There's probably a mod for that and if there isn't there should be. I'm going to replay New Vegas in every language to find out which one House is most lovable in. Maybe a French accent will complement his moustachioed visage.
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Apr 1, 2022 06:36
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Ingame, House is classified as an abomination.StandardVC10 posted:I actually forgot about ghouls and super mutants being quasi-immortal as well. In my defense, the game presents House very differently for a couple reasons - intentionality (we've yet to meet anyone who chose to be a ghoul and successfully became one, as far as I know,) and how he interacts with the world (ghouls can do everything humans can; House literally can't do anything but impose his vision on the world through a TV screen.) There are a handful of deliberate ghoul characters, iirc one in a fallout 3 DLC and maybe a couple in Fallout 4, depending on your definitions (and some more self-inflicted quasi-immortals). Because of the general "you can kill everyone" and "the prewar period is bad" frame of the games, especially ones other than NV, these characters are usually presented as unethical.
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Apr 1, 2022 08:11
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Byzantine posted:House is the only one native to the Mojave. My favorite part of The New Vegas Discourse is when people look at the multiple hundred year old man out of time literally living in an ivory tower hanging over a city that he turned into a wealth segregated warzone even before the two imperialist powers moved in and say out loud "well that guy definitely Lives Here and represents this land, he should be in charge" Not one of the power players in New vegas is a "Mojave Native" lmfao Psycho Landlord fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Apr 1, 2022 |
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Apr 1, 2022 12:48
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drat, today I learned quote is not edit after all
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Apr 1, 2022 12:49
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Discendo Vox posted:(and some more self-inflicted quasi-immortals)
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Apr 1, 2022 12:55
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Lovecraft Reference #268 If something in Fallout 4 isn't just a callback to a previous game, assume its something Lovecraft or Derleth wrote once. Just make your drat cthulhu game you clearly want to make, Bethesda.
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Apr 1, 2022 13:03
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QX4jDV0QagQ
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Apr 1, 2022 14:58
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm0tUvouv-I
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Apr 1, 2022 15:00
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That owns
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Apr 1, 2022 15:33
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StandardVC10 posted:The only difference being unlike Caesar, he doesn't have the common courtesy to just eventually die. Imperialism is one thing - imperialism that is functionally eternal is something else. On the other hand, if the power goes out he's probably dead in moments. In any case it's not his immortality that makes him inhuman, it's his wealth
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Apr 1, 2022 15:51
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2house2fly posted:On the other hand, if the power goes out he's probably dead in moments. In any case it's not his immortality that makes him inhuman, it's his wealth His power went out for like 200 years tho.
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Apr 1, 2022 16:40
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I think there's only one sentient creature in the series who definitely wasn't human, and the games don't seem very interested in exploring that concept further.StandardVC10 posted:The only difference being unlike Caesar, he doesn't have the common courtesy to just eventually die. Imperialism is one thing - imperialism that is functionally eternal is something else. House isn't imperialistic though by all indications.
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Apr 1, 2022 16:49
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SlothfulCobra posted:I think there's only one sentient creature in the series who definitely wasn't human, and the games don't seem very interested in exploring that concept further.
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Apr 1, 2022 16:53
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There was an entire vault of talking death claws. You can argue that some of the zax systems have attained sentience along with skynet and the synths. There's also the talking brahmin playing poker
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Apr 1, 2022 16:56
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SlothfulCobra posted:I think there's only one sentient creature in the series who definitely wasn't human, and the games don't seem very interested in exploring that concept further. There have, in fact, been several. A whole rear end vault of them actually. And also however many lived out in the midwest in Tactics.
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Apr 1, 2022 17:03
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SlothfulCobra posted:I think there's only one sentient creature in the series who definitely wasn't human, and the games don't seem very interested in exploring that concept further. quote:[What can you tell me about Freeside?] I won't pretend to be the best with political labels or anything. Maybe this doesn't count as imperialism, just like fascism is often thrown around with little regard for its actual definition. But seems indisputable House woke up one day and sent out robots to kill or force out anybody who disagreed with him. Now he's a dictator with no compunction about using murderous violence or withholding a monopoly on life-saving technology.
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Apr 1, 2022 17:03
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