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K8.0 posted:IDK, a lot of what you guys are saying sounds completely nonsensical to me. For example, the idea that you can average sub 4 minute zones is absurd. I have over 1000 hours in the game. It's not.
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Mar 31, 2022 03:44
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K8.0 posted:IDK, a lot of what you guys are saying sounds completely nonsensical to me. For example, the idea that you can average sub 4 minute zones is absurd. Loader can average 2:45 per zone maybe picking up only the boss drops, the idea that any other character, never mind the immobile ones, are going to consistently reach the teleporter in less than 1:15 longer than it takes Loader to do it is ridiculous and I'm pretty sure physically impossible. That's maybe 2 teleporter spots you get to check before failing. Good christ. I would kill to watch you stream the game, dude.
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Mar 31, 2022 03:52
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For Rainstorm 6 to 7 minute clears should be ok. Monsoon you really have to stay under 5. One of the hard parts about picking this game up is realizing just how much you're fighting the clock, spending an extra minute on a level makes the entire game harder forever. (3:30 first level clears arent unusual for monsoon) I really do think the clock is your issue because enemies just shouldnt be that deadly outside of elder lemurians and brass contraptions. If you're really unsure as to how this is possible you can watch some videos on youtube. (Also dont get too thrown off by 4 minute clears, enemies spawn in faster in monsoon so you can afford more items faster. I don't think 4 minute rainstorm clears work as well.) No Wave fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Mar 31, 2022 |
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Mar 31, 2022 04:05
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If you want to break the game, enable the Artifact that doubles enemies (and halves their health), the Artifact that makes wisps appear after enemies die, and the Artifact that makes enemies drop items when they die. Camp out on the first level for like ten minutes and you'll be drowning in items. (I'd actually recommend against using Artifact of Command for this because you'll very quickly be spending more time choosing common items vs actually playing the game)
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Mar 31, 2022 04:21
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K8.0 posted:IDK, a lot of what you guys are saying sounds completely nonsensical to me. For example, the idea that you can average sub 4 minute zones is absurd. Loader can average 2:45 per zone maybe picking up only the boss drops, the idea that any other character, never mind the immobile ones, are going to consistently reach the teleporter in less than 1:15 longer than it takes Loader to do it is ridiculous and I'm pretty sure physically impossible. That's maybe 2 teleporter spots you get to check before failing. My buddy and I usually hit the first teleporter at 5 minutes, but that's because we loaf around. If we're aiming for speed we can clear a zone in a little under 2 minutes. Now granted, that's two people - when I'm soloing with MUL-T, I average about 3 minutes per zone unless the teleporter spawns in a really loving stupid place. Key things are knowing the level, sprinting any time you're not attacking, and spamming whatever movement ability to have available to you to get around. Finding high ground so you can scout around for chests or Teleporter particles is also extremely helpful. quote:Your advice is also largely conflicting. Don't let hordes of enemies pile up, but also be sprinting all the time and thus doing no damage. There's a big-rear end difference between what advice you were given and your reading thereof. Maybe my own method will help: I tend to focus on covering ground unless there are three or more enemies nearby, in which case I stop what I'm doing and kill them as quickly as I can to prevent a mob from building up. Clearing out big groups gets a lot easier once you get some AOE options (Gasoline, Will O' Wisp, Ukulele, Voidsent Flame, etc), which can allow you to take longer between covering ground and stopping to clear mobs. quote:And as you mostly admit, it's not like you can actually eliminate damage, just make the RNG slightly more favorable. There are very, very few ranged attacks that movement can consistently dodge. Most enemies in this game cannot hit you if you sprint in a straight line. Hell, half the time Lemurians can't hit me when I'm gently strafing in Power Mode (see also: Extremely Slow Mode). quote:Most boss attacks you simply cannot avoid without multiple jumps, invincibility, or sitting behind a twig where now every attack from every other enemy is going to hit you at least 50% of the time anyway. So unless you're actually spending like 5 minutes to fight the boss and hiding behind cover and focusing entirely on clearing out other enemies so you can stay there and then using the 2 second windows between undodgeable attacks to hit the bosses, I don't see how it's physically possible to apply the way you talk about the game to the way it actually plays. There are a handful of Boss attacks that really suck and are very difficult to dodge (looking directly at you, Stone Titan, you massive pile of gently caress), but the vast majority of them are very avoidable. quote:I'm playing on Rainstorm because TBH I notice no difference in the difficulty levels, a bunch of characters, but mostly engineer since it seems by an enormous margin the least random with the most damage, the best proccing (since there are very few items that add damage other than by proc), and the ability to at least somewhat keep up with the rate that enemy HP is spawning while sparing some movement for defense (unlike say Loader, where I don't see how it's anything other than pure RNG on every single stage if you can clear it or not). Loader rules. Lern2punch. Not too long ago, I did a stream where me and my buddy got to Level 100 to see what would happen to Mithrix's scaling. We did so on Monsoon (the hardest difficulty!) and with an artifact that doubled enemy spawns. Of course, the stream eventually (quickly?) devolves into absolute madness, but the first ten minutes might be helpful to you in seeing how to get through the early portions of a run in a timely manner. After all, we hit the first Teleporter in 2 minutes with no items.
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Mar 31, 2022 04:52
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K8.0 posted:Your advice is also largely conflicting. Don't let hordes of enemies pile up, but also be sprinting all the time and thus doing no damage. You can do more than one thing at a time. Loader's best movement ability is also literally a punch that will rocket her through a pile of enemies and kill them all and she has the grapple. Solanumai fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Mar 31, 2022 |
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Mar 31, 2022 06:27
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K8.0 posted:IDK, a lot of what you guys are saying sounds completely nonsensical to me. For example, the idea that you can average sub 4 minute zones is absurd. Loader can average 2:45 per zone maybe picking up only the boss drops, the idea that any other character, never mind the immobile ones, are going to consistently reach the teleporter in less than 1:15 longer than it takes Loader to do it is ridiculous and I'm pretty sure physically impossible. That's maybe 2 teleporter spots you get to check before failing. Please watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwZtPnqlAro Woolie can be annoying, but his advice is generally quite solid. The tips he gives in that video are what we have said and there's nothing new there, but try to pay attention how he moves. He's jumping, running to teleports, ignoring crates, sprinting and jumping. Now then: 1. Reaching stage 3 in under ten minutes is completely doable. It's actually something you should gun for occasionally, since Rallypoint Delta has a locked chest with Praeon Accumulator, a high damage-high reload time equipment weapon. 2. Sprinting "all the time" does not literally mean sprinting 100% of the time, that's true. It can mean sprinting 99 % or 90 % of the time. When you are not shooting, sprint. Unless you're playing Huntress. 3. Managing RNG is very much what the game runs on. You get random items, but how you scrap these items, turn them to other items, and how you build on your current build with multishops and 3D printers is essential. Stupid analogy: real-life fishing is sorta RNG - you cast a lure and a fish may bite or not. But you change your lures, baits and techniques to adapt to whatever situation you're fishing in to increase your chances and overcome potential handicaps you are facing. 4. The attacks that I count as "undodgeable" in a sense it's much safer to try something else: Lesser Wisp (low damage hitscan, dodgeable but too dangerous to count on it), Stone Giant beam (avoidable if you have enough angular speed, but most safely evaded with cover), Wandering Wagrant (huge area blast, only cover helps), Clay Templar (too high RoF, you have to either break LoS for long enough or move behind it), Grandparent (gtfo). Other attacks are telegraphed to an extent you can easily evade them with normal movement and/or have patterns you learn to recognize and evade, even if they are difficult. 5. Struggling with damage output is normal. Using engineer to increase your procs is absolutely a good thing and it's good you know what's going on there! It sounds like you're also annoyed with the game. If you highly dislike the game, do not play it! No use in getting angry about video games. Just move on, there are other games. But if you do want to play (and RoR2 is a great game since it has a high skill ceiling with lots of emphasis on build management), you need to accept the fact that when 10 people say to you you are doing something wrong it's nothing personal. You might be doing something wrong. There's nothing bad about it. El Perkele fucked around with this message at 12:25 on Mar 31, 2022 |
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Mar 31, 2022 08:44
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 i think i accidentally punted this boss into space and now I have to wait for him to come back
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Mar 31, 2022 12:39
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Something has to be really off-kilter with how you're going about finding the teleporter to be held up that badly, that consistently. Like to be clear, I think the new snowy forest stage 1 sucks rear end and is not balanced properly at all, but on something like Distant Roost you almost have to try to miss the teleporter with the exception of one really lovely spawn point on one of its variants (or I guess if you're not aware of the optional gates being open). Titanic Plains is the most vanilla map in the game and you have to really screw up to be totally clueless about where the TP could be. Wetlands legit sucks for quickly finding it, but as previously said the music thing combined with the particles helps the most on that map above all others, meanwhile Aqueduct is almost guaranteed to spawn you in one half of the map and the TP in the other. Foreknowledge of spawn locations obviously helps a lot, but if you spawn at one corner of a map you should have a lead on where the TP is at least 80% of the time just by traveling straight to the opposite corner. On something like the new stage 2, the stage is basically one big T so it's simply a matter of checking the two spokes you didn't spawn on. (Albeit there's also some navigational fuckery on that map depending on which direction you're traversing from but still.) I will say I personally find the aggressive time crunch playstyle less appealing and there's a reasonable case to be made that you don't need to hyper-rush. Game's more about finding a comfortable balance between time spent vs. items gained and that doesn't always skew towards time. There's a lot of gutcheck calculus going on with that, though - if there's a scrapper on the map I'm probably more inclined to stick around and full clear for items because even if I get dogshit from every single chest it can be immediately turned into printer fodder for the next stage and/or the bazaar, compensating for all that "wasted" time, similar case if there's already a valuable printer around and I can just turn a pile of random white items into a giant stack of daggers or gasoline. The real crux of the early game is finding the right balance between farming for early loot now vs. triggering the boss and using the pile of money you get from that to quickly and efficiently loot whatever you missed on the first pass and it's a little different per stage and per survivor and can change based on what the stage gives you. If it decides to throw a bunch of blood shrines at you, those can be a handy accelerant. On the other hand, chance shrines are IMO pure distilled newbie bait. If you have the money in pocket, take a couple of pulls on a chance shrine at most and then move on. Worry about exhausting them after the teleporter, not before, at least on early stages where money is very tight and slow to accrue. Also very much worth noting that, at least in my experience, on earlier maps in solo play a decent chunk of the stage's loot likes to cluster nearer to the teleporter. So it's entirely viable to beeline for the TP, farm a little to open nearby chests, then activate the TP all without being punished as badly for skipping past more scattered chests. John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Mar 31, 2022 |
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Mar 31, 2022 21:18
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with the newest update i definitely feel if you're rushing the teleporter to try and clear it in under 5 minutes you're going to be heavily penalized if the game decides to throw a lovely stage 2 or 3 at you with the void seed placement. it's far easier if you think of it in terms of chest density + enemy value + time. the new snowy forest stage sucks rear end to navigate for example but tends to have a high density of chests and enemies that drop more gold so scoping out the teleporter then sticking around to pick up more chests is more valuable than say, distant roost which can tend to have fewer and harder to access chests. that said i still firmly believe even after the updates i don't think they have a particularly good grasp on how to balance out the game.
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Mar 31, 2022 23:23
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Yeah for reference any advice I was giving was for Monsoon. On Rainstorm you're really okay to take your time on the first stage, even around 7-8 minutes is usually completely fine, but you do want to pick up the pace as you get deeper into the run because the difficulty ramp-up actually accelerates and money becomes less and less of an issue. By Stage 6 or so you should just be finding and starting the teleporter as your first action in the stage because by the time you charge it/kill the boss you will have all the money you need to open the majority of the chests on the map and the items you get per stage make up a smaller and smaller portion of your overall power anyway. Anyone starting out should put the poo poo on Drizzle without a second thought and only move up when they think they have a good handle on what most of the items do, how they benefit the various characters, how the various enemies behave, and how to find the teleporter. It's a roguelike, dying is part of the process of figuring poo poo out.
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Mar 31, 2022 23:32
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Yeah the vast majority of my playtime has been on Monsoon and rushing is the most efficient way to play on that difficulty. It’s been ages since I played the other difficulties so I’ve forgotten how they play.
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Mar 31, 2022 23:38
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Kith posted:My buddy and I usually hit the first teleporter at 5 minutes, but that's because we loaf around. If we're aiming for speed we can clear a zone in a little under 2 minutes. The teleporter alone is 5 seconds of warmup, 90 seconds of counting, and ~10 seconds to get ported to the next level, so I assume you're just not counting that, which means the fastest you can go with 2 people is JUST avoiding what people are telling me is the pace you have to at to not fall behind on scaling? And that means grabbing zero items other than whatever the boss drops and anything that might spawn inside the teleporter radius, so I don't see how you can jive that with the concept of making any choices about anything in the game. I can't reconcile any of this with the relatively immense amount of time it takes to grinder items or sit around at a printer waiting for 30+ seconds, or even really to stop sprinting to generate money to open chests along the way, and certainly not to leave the teleporter afterward to go pick up items. The only thing I'm seeing in the videos is people playing pretty much just like me and getting hit just as much as I do, at a pace that's well within the variance of what I've tried, but taking way less damage per hit and seeming to deal more damage. I just had a run where on the very first level, zero damage taken, closest spawn I've ever seen about 20 seconds to the teleporter, I slide behind the beetle queen, no other enemies even spawned in the area yet, and she 100-0s me next to her rear end with her allegedly front only spit. I don't see how you can outplay something like that. The run before was a wide open area and 6-7 stone golems from horde + other spawns, sure you can mostly dodge them by sprinting perpendicular to the pack but everything else that spawns can hit you and you can literally never stop sprinting to do damage or you will get lasered repeatedly. I used a printer to negate their damage for a bit but as more enemies spawned all I could do was run until I died, and even trying only to use commando right click I was still getting hit every time. Maybe my sprint transitions aren't completely optimal because I loving despise toggle controls like the poo poo rear end sprint in this game, but it's not THAT far off that I could do much different. The two times before that were a Stone Titan with nothing but a tree for cover and dying to other enemies, and a Stone Titan on a ledge and the options of lasered to death on the ground or lasered to death in midair on a bounce pad. I personally haven't found any value in the bazaar any time I've been there, but I'm sure that if I knew better or maybe unlocked more stuff I would notice more options. To me every lunar item I've unlocked is basically a death sentence in one way or another Usually I just use it to get to the void fields because if you have a shipping request form you get an extra item doing that. I never deliberately go to a newt altar anymore because they're almost all large time losses unless you're playing Loader. I just can't make sense of any of this. If there's some sort of skills-related stuff I'm missing, it feels unbelievably difficult to pick up.
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Mar 31, 2022 23:40
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K8.0 posted:The only thing I'm seeing in the videos is people playing pretty much just like me and getting hit just as much as I do, at a pace that's well within the variance of what I've tried, but taking way less damage per hit and seeming to deal more damage. I just had a run where on the very first level, zero damage taken, closest spawn I've ever seen about 20 seconds to the teleporter, I slide behind the beetle queen, no other enemies even spawned in the area yet, and she 100-0s me next to her rear end with her allegedly front only spit. I don't see how you can outplay something like that. The run before was a wide open area and 6-7 stone golems from horde + other spawns, sure you can mostly dodge them by sprinting perpendicular to the pack but everything else that spawns can hit you and you can literally never stop sprinting to do damage or you will get lasered repeatedly. I used a printer to negate their damage for a bit but as more enemies spawned all I could do was run until I died, and even trying only to use commando right click I was still getting hit every time. Maybe my sprint transitions aren't completely optimal because I loving despise toggle controls like the poo poo rear end sprint in this game, but it's not THAT far off that I could do much different. The two times before that were a Stone Titan with nothing but a tree for cover and dying to other enemies, and a Stone Titan on a ledge and the options of lasered to death on the ground or lasered to death in midair on a bounce pad. I'm fairly certain a lot of Beetle Queen tips are wildly outdated now, that boss was buffed in a patch and while it's still probably the easiest one of the bunch you can't get lazy and dump damage into her rear end. Also her projectile spray has splash damage so if you wedge yourself into a bad spot you'll just get shotgunned by them and insta-splat. The outplay is to uh, not do that. Also FWIW there's a mod to enable auto-sprint. I don't disagree that toggling sprint is often obnoxious, especially because what does and doesn't toggle it off isn't fully consistent and there's some really dumb edge cases. See: Pressing Shift to charge up Loader's punch, which scales on movement speed, turns off sprint...but you can and should immediately toggle it right back on for the speed bonus. Why they couldn't just have it not disable sprint is a mystery. This also applies to every character with a charge mechanic - you have to stop sprinting to start charging Captain M1, Artificer M2, etc. but can go right back to sprinting so it's just stupid APM horseshit. K8.0 posted:I personally haven't found any value in the bazaar any time I've been there, but I'm sure that if I knew better or maybe unlocked more stuff I would notice more options. To me every lunar item I've unlocked is basically a death sentence in one way or another Usually I just use it to get to the void fields because if you have a shipping request form you get an extra item doing that. I never deliberately go to a newt altar anymore because they're almost all large time losses unless you're playing Loader. On average, but especially for a new player, the value of the bazaar is not in the lunar items at all whatsoever and instead in the guaranteed caldrons that can take your banked up scrap and turn it into something potentially huge. Basically if you have a stack of 5 green scrap, that's your cue to find a newt altar ASAP so you can try and turn it into a legendary item.
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Apr 1, 2022 00:28
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Also I think a good example of the time vs. items question is the Aqueduct secret: Is it worth spending an extra 2-5~ minutes loving around with pot physics to get yourself some free, guaranteed double bands? The answer is not 100% absolutely yes every time, but I feel like it's not too far away from it? Because double bands are simply that good and will compensate for any added time taken to get them. Now, is it worth spending 10+ extra minutes loving around with pot physics to get them? Mmmmm nah. Would I fight extra long on Commando to nudge a stupid pot into the right position? Probably not. Would I go through that same effort on Loader? gently caress yes I would. Like idk, I'm not saying the rush playstyle is invalid, it's just I watch enough Eclipse streamers where the answer really does seem to be "take as long as you need to in order to win" and while it certainly helps to not outright waste time, it also helps to get enough items to snowball into a win, too. Woolie's not wrong that by going fast you can keep pace with enemy scaling with fewer items, which makes things a bit more consistent. But the corollary is also true, you can keep pace with enemy scaling by just grabbing more items. And I feel like regardless of which avenue you take it's absolutely possible to end up with dogshit RNG that forces you to detour towards eking out the tiniest advantage you can find because the game blessed you with nothing but stealth kits. Semi-relatedly, something that I don't think I've really seen anyone talk about is that looping seems to cause a soft difficulty reset of sorts? I'm assuming it has to do with stage 1 enemy pools combined with credits being spent on spooky elite lesser wisps or something, but regularly I can be just starting to hit the rough end of scaling in Sky Meadow, then I loop and effortlessly blow Titanic Plains the gently caress up.
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Apr 1, 2022 02:06
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John Murdoch posted:Also I think a good example of the time vs. items question is the Aqueduct secret: Is it worth spending an extra 2-5~ minutes loving around with pot physics to get yourself some free, guaranteed double bands? The answer is not 100% absolutely yes every time, but I feel like it's not too far away from it? Because double bands are simply that good and will compensate for any added time taken to get them. Now, is it worth spending 10+ extra minutes loving around with pot physics to get them? Mmmmm nah. Would I fight extra long on Commando to nudge a stupid pot into the right position? Probably not. Would I go through that same effort on Loader? gently caress yes I would. Eclipse players, particularly those who stream or release YT videos, have a very solid grasp on how the run is unrolling. They're experienced players. IMO for beginners or people struggling with the game, being fast (4-6 items and a couple of minutes per stage or so, try to reach stage 3 in 10-12 minutes or whatever) feels more consistent. "As long as you need in order to win" is solid, but it requires you to detect differences between builds and item drops. Being fast (and I do not mean 1 minute fast, I mean more like "oh god please do not default to 20minutes at s2") feels more consistent because you generally manage to stay roughly at the power curve, most of the time, somewhat reliably. There's a bunch or RoR2 players who say precisely that time does not matter, the only thing that matters is that you can kill stuff. That's true but "time matters" ppl emphasize some rule of the thumb, while "does not" crew depends (legitimately) on the skill. I can tell myself to spend 30+ minutes on stage 3 if I feel comfortable, but I would never tell someone who's struggling with the game to do that. They'll get there eventually.
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Apr 1, 2022 09:52
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IME rushing is less about keeping up with the curve early on and more about getting to stage 4 with time to burn so you can farm up all the green multishops and such littering the level.
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Apr 1, 2022 10:06
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K8.0 posted:The teleporter alone is 5 seconds of warmup, 90 seconds of counting, and ~10 seconds to get ported to the next level, so I assume you're just not counting that, which means the fastest you can go with 2 people is JUST avoiding what people are telling me is the pace you have to at to not fall behind on scaling? And that means grabbing zero items other than whatever the boss drops and anything that might spawn inside the teleporter radius, so I don't see how you can jive that with the concept of making any choices about anything in the game. I can't reconcile any of this with the relatively immense amount of time it takes to grinder items or sit around at a printer waiting for 30+ seconds, or even really to stop sprinting to generate money to open chests along the way, and certainly not to leave the teleporter afterward to go pick up items. edit: nm Please, record your run. That way people can see what is going on and what is wrong. El Perkele fucked around with this message at 13:04 on Apr 1, 2022 |
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Apr 1, 2022 11:07
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I don't think jumping on him for bad plays is necessarily the right move here either. I can get through reasonably consistently on monsoon, or power through to mithrix and beat the game in either mode. But it does require a lot of gimmicks and a lot of the time my character will collapse to the floor in the middle of a steam roll and I'll have no inclination on what wiped +100% of my health. In the end it's just the nature of the gameplay. You're never playing this game. You're fighting it to unlock a decent set of gear that will break the curve over its own back.
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Apr 1, 2022 11:13
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ErKeL posted:I don't think jumping on him for bad plays is necessarily the right move here either. I can get through reasonably consistently on monsoon, or power through to mithrix and beat the game in either mode. Yeah, that was uncalled for from me. But there are indicators that there might be a fundamental problem which leads to abnormally consistent bad plays, and posters have been trying to figure out what it is for two days. El Perkele fucked around with this message at 11:42 on Apr 1, 2022 |
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Apr 1, 2022 11:40
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John Murdoch posted:Like idk, I'm not saying the rush playstyle is invalid, it's just I watch enough Eclipse streamers where the answer really does seem to be "take as long as you need to in order to win" and while it certainly helps to not outright waste time, it also helps to get enough items to snowball into a win, too. Woolie's not wrong that by going fast you can keep pace with enemy scaling with fewer items, which makes things a bit more consistent. But the corollary is also true, you can keep pace with enemy scaling by just grabbing more items. And I feel like regardless of which avenue you take it's absolutely possible to end up with dogshit RNG that forces you to detour towards eking out the tiniest advantage you can find because the game blessed you with nothing but stealth kits. There are all sorts of nuances to certain stages (and chest spawns) and playing as certain characters but I think it's a lot better to learn those via playing than watching or reading a guide beyond the very basics. You're going to get the most consistent runs rushing and I wish I'd known it was probably the best method because it is unintuitive and it would've saved me a lot of time learning other things. And you can totally get boned by the RNG with bad greens on bosses but that's the nature of the game (nothing more frustrating than an early shrine of the mountain giving you multiple crap greens and a lesser yellow). You'd be more boned if you lollygagged and got some lovely greens and whites out of chests though. And yeah the early part of the next loop is easier than the end of the previous due to like you said the enemy pools.
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Apr 1, 2022 13:47
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Whether rushing or farming, it just comes down to always keeping in mind the constantly changing power imbalance. Your power is like a breath meter. It's always shrinking regardless of what you're doing, and loot is air bubbles. Yes, it makes sense to go for one nearby, but chasing all the way across the map and back because you noticed a small chest during the teleporter event is a big waste of "air". Another minor tip, because I know a lot of people tend to play music while gaming instead of using game audio, the sound cues will help you survive a lot. Things like a wisp or a golem preparing to shoot you, or a jellyfish about to explode, etc. have very obvious cues to help you know when to react. Almost every enemy also has a unique spawn-in sound as well. After too many hours in the game that all becomes subconscious, but even as a new player it would help to learn a few of the most important ones. Wisps used to kill me constantly when starting out, but now that I know what it sounds like when one is about to blast me I almost never have an issue with them.
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Apr 1, 2022 16:51
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On that note the main thing that bothers me about Blind Pests is that they seem to be entirely silent? Or at least way quieter than Wisps which make a constant droning sound. Honestly the new enemies kind of just suck all around.
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Apr 1, 2022 18:18
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I like the slimes. They are fun cash piñatas
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Apr 1, 2022 20:43
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El Perkele posted:Eclipse players, particularly those who stream or release YT videos, have a very solid grasp on how the run is unrolling. They're experienced players. I was speaking more generally rather than as newbie advice, but that said K8.0 also seems to be taking the 5 minute rule hyper-literally and stressing out about the timer so  Ultimately it's a guideline that serves its purpose, but I think it's more honest to say while yes, any given stage should average towards 5 minutes if possible, various factors can and will change that.Also a nugget of actual factual newbie advice: The teleporter event is not an honorable thunderdome. If the boss(es) spawns in an unfavorable place, kite them somewhere better if possible. Or kite all the free spawns around and swing back to hammer on the boss. Hitting 99% turns off enemy spawns regardless of the boss' status, so I've even had cases where I picked away at the progress meter so that I could then permanently clean out a bad stack of elites and finally fight the boss in peace. Forex, if a Titan spawns as the boss and there's no cover around, your first instinct should be to figure out where you can retreat to break line of sight because at some point you're going to be laser'd. Don't obsess over staying in the circle and then eat poo poo because there was no cover. As I understand it, stuff likes to spawn near you so it can even be beneficial to zip away from the TP, clean out spawns as needed and let new poo poo appear around you, then gently caress off back to the teleporter and let them waste time lumbering after you while you get free progress. John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Apr 1, 2022 |
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Apr 1, 2022 21:00
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Shere posted:On that note the main thing that bothers me about Blind Pests is that they seem to be entirely silent? Or at least way quieter than Wisps which make a constant droning sound. I don't mind the new enemies except for whatever the goofy flying fuckers are called. If I had a list of five enemies to delete from the game, they'd be every entry on that list.
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Apr 1, 2022 21:41
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If you have the patience to watch, here's an extremely cursed run Race did last night: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1442541542?t=3h17m56s Eclipse 8 double Scrap Launcher Retool Mul-T, with some hilariously bad luck on top. Dude is a freak who complains the game is too easy and outright intentionally makes the game harder for himself on purpose, but it's a fun example of taking the absolute worst case scenario and digging your way out it. And then getting one-shot thanks to bad positioning and being out-scaled.  Kith posted:I don't mind the new enemies except for whatever the goofy flying fuckers are called. If I had a list of five enemies to delete from the game, they'd be every entry on that list. Those are the Blind Pests. I dunno though, they have some competition from the jumping larva and to a lesser extent the blind vermin.
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Apr 1, 2022 22:21
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Who made Blind Pests? Reveal yourself. You have an appointment at the Hague.
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Apr 2, 2022 06:15
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John Murdoch posted:Those are the Blind Pests. I dunno though, they have some competition from the jumping larva and to a lesser extent the blind vermin. Yeah this is what I was getting at, gently caress all of these. They're awful. Not a huge fan of the void enemies all having "fill your screen with instant kill fields on death" bullshit either.
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Apr 2, 2022 07:38
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The insta kill is kind of a cool mechanic for one big dude because it seems pretty obvious you don't want to stand in there and it's easy enough to avoid, but holy poo poo it sucks when there's more than one. Usually I cop a heaping assload of them all spawn in at once. They fill my screen with black and I have no loving idea if I'm just looking at a wall of death or if I'm still standing in it.
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Apr 2, 2022 07:48
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Blind pests are horse poo poo because beforehand you'd just worry about lesser wisps and brass contraptions in the sky to watch out for (I never really consider greater wisps a threat). Now with the blind pests being so common it feels like there's like three times the amount of airborn enemies in the game now past stage three or four, not just a few extra here and there.
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Apr 2, 2022 16:22
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ErKeL posted:Usually I cop a heaping assload of them all spawn in at once. They fill my screen with black and I have no loving idea if I'm just looking at a wall of death or if I'm still standing in it. This gets hilarious in the lategame where you're mowing enemies down and you get a stage where "The void takes interest in you" and void creatures start spawning left and right, and popping black holes left and right.
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Apr 2, 2022 17:31
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BeAuMaN posted:This gets hilarious in the lategame where you're mowing enemies down and you get a stage where "The void takes interest in you" and void creatures start spawning left and right, and popping black holes left and right. accidentally instakilling reavers with razor wires
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Apr 2, 2022 18:58
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Circling back to something I was complaining about before, I'm convinced there's something hosed up with Siphoned Forest's spawn budget in particular where it has like 2x as many credits as it should for a stage 1, let alone a stage 2 or 3. Like I swear you'll get 5-6 lesser wisps and/or 4-6 blind pests appearing all at once, whereas by comparison even later stages will only drop 3-4. Or is it somehow possible the Shrine of the Mountain bug is still kicking around, but only on certain stages? Also maybe it's just wacky statistical misfortune and I'm chasing ghosts but I keep getting runs where without fail I start on Forest and then go to Aphelian Sanctuary, over and over. Though on the flipside I almost never get Sulfur Pools so
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Apr 2, 2022 21:58
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John Murdoch posted:Circling back to something I was complaining about before, I'm convinced there's something hosed up with Siphoned Forest's spawn budget in particular where it has like 2x as many credits as it should for a stage 1, let alone a stage 2 or 3. Like I swear you'll get 5-6 lesser wisps and/or 4-6 blind pests appearing all at once, whereas by comparison even later stages will only drop 3-4. Or is it somehow possible the Shrine of the Mountain bug is still kicking around, but only on certain stages? It also definitely has like way more chests so I'm not complaining
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Apr 2, 2022 23:06
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I have to say, with these new maps I've learned to love the Eccentric Vase, especially in multiplayer. It just allows for so much movement on all characters, a very good item. It also allows you to completely skip the moon and go straight to the Mithrix fight, which is cool as well.
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Apr 3, 2022 11:00
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For deep runs in Simulacrum the Eccentric Vase been incredibly useful as well. It helps you reach much further beyond the safe zone to get items scattered around the map. Also helps with those situations where the zone moves through a wall or up a cliff.
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Apr 3, 2022 14:41
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I don't get how siphoned forest does such a great job of hiding the teleporter. Maybe it's just that I'm not as familiar with it yet, but it's basically just an open field with a few big columns in it. It seems like you should be able to see the teleporter particles easily after checking a few sight lines, yet I almost never notice it until I'm nearly on top of it.
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Apr 3, 2022 19:57
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BobTheJanitor posted:I don't get how siphoned forest does such a great job of hiding the teleporter. Maybe it's just that I'm not as familiar with it yet, but it's basically just an open field with a few big columns in it. It seems like you should be able to see the teleporter particles easily after checking a few sight lines, yet I almost never notice it until I'm nearly on top of it. I think the particles get washed out with the brightness of the snow. I've definitely noticed the teleporter, did a little more looting, and then lost track of where it was.
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Apr 3, 2022 20:38
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I feel like the layout is also repetitive/pseudo-symmetrical enough that it doesn't really lodge in your brain, the giant trees are such huge and samey landmarks that you're basically never not in the orbit of at least one. Sulfur Pools has a similar issue where each spoke of the wheel may as well be completely identical at a glance. Good luck figuring out which direction is which while you're inside the cave!
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Apr 4, 2022 00:26
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