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BigglesSWE posted:Holy poo poo this guy. Deposition episodes are consistently great, I wish I could hear these idiots getting dogwalked by lawyers every week edit: I just got to the end of the episode where they announce that Friday is another deposition episode, my lucky week Fentry fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Mar 31, 2022 |
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Mar 31, 2022 00:43
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That was a brutal episode. The revelation that Jones dictates to his writers what the headlines should be so he can report on the headlines of the articles on Infowars was stunning.
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Mar 31, 2022 01:11
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Every time there's a new deposition episode the phrase I keep thinking of is "Evolutionary Trap" Where an animal has an adapted trait or behavior that would be helpful in most circumstances but fatal in others, like moths who navigate by moonlight flying headlong into exposed lightbulbs and open flames. With Alex Jones and his associates, if Anderson Cooper was asking them questions like these, I'd say Kit Daniels was doing an excellent job deflecting and redirecting when necessary and staying on message to keep the InfoWars audience. In a courtroom however, Words Mean Things and it's really loving important to give clear answers to every question.
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Mar 31, 2022 01:57
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https://twitter.com/openargs/status/1509284501037277188 https://twitter.com/openargs/status/1509326826736300033
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Mar 31, 2022 01:58
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He ain't going in unless he's dragged in or defaulted on so he can play that for his audience
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Mar 31, 2022 02:27
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Holy crap aren't you allowed/supposed to have a lawyer present for depositions?? Kit seems all alone
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Mar 31, 2022 03:20
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Glory to Italia!
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Megabound posted:He ain't going in unless he's dragged in or defaulted on so he can play that for his audience Yeah. He stands to lose a ton of money as it's looking, what's another hundred thousand bucks or so at this point?
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Mar 31, 2022 03:34
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ILL Machina posted:Holy crap aren't you allowed/supposed to have a lawyer present for depositions?? Kit seems all alone You are allowed and should definitely have a lawyer at your deposition, but it isn't required if you don't want one.
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Mar 31, 2022 03:51
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ILL Machina posted:Holy crap aren't you allowed/supposed to have a lawyer present for depositions?? Kit seems all alone
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Mar 31, 2022 04:03
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cowboy
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Oh I just got to the end and she chimes in and he didn't listen to her. My understanding is that we don't practice law in Texas on the weekends. ILL Machina fucked around with this message at 07:10 on Mar 31, 2022 |
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Mar 31, 2022 04:03
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Yeah I don't think even InfoWars is dumb enough to send in people without a lawyer, but I think their role would just be to argue if they think a question is not allowed or tell the client when they shouldn't answer something. Unless they want to be grandstanding dickholes.
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Mar 31, 2022 04:36
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It's time to pray 
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Mar 31, 2022 04:48
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Infowars gives them lawyers but they churn through them at an absurd rate. Basically every two weeks their representation quits when they get the full perspective of what the cases are and how infowars people act
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Mar 31, 2022 06:20
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Fentry posted:Infowars gives them lawyers but they churn through them at an absurd rate. Basically every two weeks their representation quits when they get the full perspective of what the cases are and how infowars people act I think that's more a recent thing. Part of this last deposition and the recent posts, including mine, were talking about a sandy hook parent's request to make a correction of one of Kits articles within 10 days and they just...didn't. Kit tried to blame the lawyer for being negligent and that he was told they had 30 days (not including weekends?) but the lawyer stayed on the payroll through November somehow and the article was obviously not corrected in a timely manner. ILL Machina fucked around with this message at 07:17 on Mar 31, 2022 |
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Mar 31, 2022 07:14
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I do wonder what "the InfoWars audience" necessarily meant at times. While I do generally agree with Dan's hypotheses regarding the "wet concrete" metaphor and audience dynamics, I also had to wonder how many times when Kit talked about "what the audience wants" he was actually just talking about what Alex wants. From Kit's position, he essentially would be writing for an audience of one. The thing about it being "breaking news" is another weird one, because we know InfoWars dresses up old news as if it was breaking news all the time, so for Kit's description of things to still be true, that would only mean that Kit himself is not the person with editorial control to decide what old news stories become new again.
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Mar 31, 2022 07:15
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Yeah, and the start of the interview was about Kit's (and other writers') publishing power and how he and other IW lackeys weild it, and how Kit's view of his role as a primary editor changed even though his philosophy and practice didn't change much. Or at least it was too little too late. And the through line is that Kits happy to admit that he's a puppet to Alex's whims. Kit is literally crying. And apparently we're going to have some semblance of empathy for OWEN next episode? Not sure I can handle it.
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Mar 31, 2022 07:23
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Perhaps it's the circumstances, but I am very apprehensive about having some semblance of empathy for anyone involved in this. We need to keep in mind that the reason Alex is currently on time-out is because Dan could posit a reasonable theory for why Alex could have a health problem in the face of his legal troubles, only for that eminently reasonable theory to turn out wildly optimistic. If you give an inch, they'll still take a mile, all without any real effort on their part. I watched the full deposition video on Youtube in the days before the episode came out, and when Kit started crying, I didn't know what to think. I was taken aback by it, sure, but it didn't strike me as him having a sudden revelation about how deep trouble he was in. "Mysterious" is the word I would use. Was it a fundamentally human reaction? Yes. Do we know the reasons for why that human reaction even happened at all? No, absolutely not. Jordan posited the theory that it was more like a repulsion to someone experiencing hard mental dissonance while still not equipped to handle it, and even Dan had to note that an extremely pessimistic view does exist where Daniels was not crying about anything relating to Fontaine, but rather in defense of himself. After they went off the record and returned, Kit was no longer crying, and the tone of the deposition largely resumed the same evasive demeanor that it had before. The only change, however slight, was Kit was a bit more willing to throw blame towards Alex for some things, but even that might have been out of exhaustion rather than a fundamental change in position. It wasn't part of Knowledge Fight's cut of the deposition, but near the very end Kit Daniels was super contrite and very apologetic towards Fontaine. On its face, it would've been the thing you wanted to hear, but for some reason it rubbed me the wrong way. It reminded me of back when I was in grade school and having to deal with getting bullied by other kids. In the times when it escalated and a grownup got involved, the bully gave the same general apology in the same general tone that Daniels did. It felt genuine enough at the moment, but in a few days, it would be gone. As if it never happened. The things which prompted the bullying were group endeavors, and those group dynamics were the products of homeostasis. Individually, one on one, the bully would always apologize. Yet when they returned to their group of friends, old habits would soon resume. Considering the people Daniels is surrounded by and the systems that he participates in, there is very little chance that Daniels' apologies would end up meaning anything in the aggregate. The propaganda systems he is surrounded by have a structural incentive and inclination to never give someone like Fontaine any amount of sympathy, for any reason. Daniels lives in that world, relies on it for his source of income, and likely is embedded there to the point of being unable to actually leave even if he wanted. EDIT: I know this feels like everything is moving so quickly because of Alex's antics, but the Connecticut trail for this isn't set to begin until September 1st, it seems. This isn't even slightly over. Morroque fucked around with this message at 10:59 on Mar 31, 2022 |
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Mar 31, 2022 10:21
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Naw I get you, just referencing the intro bit by the lawyer saying Owen actually apologized or somehow seemed to have a come to Jesus moment. I'll believe it when I hear it maybe, but I'm with you, it's hard to imagine.
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Mar 31, 2022 12:51
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcZzlPGnKdU
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Mar 31, 2022 16:22
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I'm honestly just blown away by how much money they make. If Kit's pulling down 90K peddling nonsense, I assume Alex must make 7 figures.
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Mar 31, 2022 17:43
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In one of the previous episodes, his wife describes how they had multi millions of dollars and had no idea what to spend it on, while Jones was going on road trips (with the whole family) across the country to get adoration from fans. This was kind of the last straw for his wife at the time, because she didn't even want to be there and Alex was just getting more and more insane.
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Mar 31, 2022 18:37
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I think Alex probably pays that much because no one else wants to be associated with him. Having Infowars on your resume is probably more damaging than a porno company and he probably doesn't have a shell company or whatever his employees can put down. Even in the RWM-sphere he's probably bottom of the barrel. That's not even getting to how hellish the working environment probably is with the constant substance abuse and that was before he was getting covid every other month.
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Mar 31, 2022 18:38
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Is Alex your best friend? Lmaooo
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Apr 1, 2022 10:14
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I know he wasn't eating a gummy worm while he asked but that's what I imagined.
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Apr 1, 2022 16:50
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Perhaps it wasn't "empathy" Ogden had for Owen by the end of things, so much as it was "pity." Given the degree to which the case has progressed, there is nothing Owen can do to defend himself, and even the otherwise very-legitimate claim he has of being given malpractice-worthy bad legal advice is just another thing for him to get pulled apart over. While Alex likely has a great degree of criminal-accounting to attempt to hide his wealth, Owen does not. And the weirdest part? I almost believe him when he says he didn't know much about the topic. The eight minutes he got sued for happened when he was filling in on a broadcast he didn't normally have slotted. It is very likely he did not have time to prepare both the script and the edited video. Someone else did, but even then Owen still steadfastly refused to throw anyone else under the bus for it. It is incredibly likely that it was prepared entirely at Alex's behest, but still... Owen was filling in on Alex's show, so we have to know that the "someone" who gave Owen the script and edited video could not have been Alex directly, as if he was there then he would just hog the camera himself.
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Apr 2, 2022 01:33
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The most recent Opening Arguments is also about how hosed Alex is if you want more.
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Apr 2, 2022 01:51
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Grand Fromage posted:The most recent Opening Arguments is also about how hosed Alex is if you want more. I know Andrew is the forever optimist but just hearing a smart law-talkin' guy say "this could bankrupt all of info wars" made me happy.
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Apr 2, 2022 04:34
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Going through backlog of post election stuff. Just had to explain to several people why I just shouted aloud "Oh gently caress off Alex! You cannot possibly be buying this!" in 508 when Steve Pieczenik tells Alex about getting a call from President Xi after his appearance on the show to say how good infowars is and they didn't want to 'get into a problem situation' with their mighty news organisation. 
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Apr 2, 2022 09:58
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If I hear that Opening Arguments episode correctly, the only reason Alex wasn't arrested for contempt of court was because he was in Texas and this was the Connecticut court. Because he was across state lines, the judge in question did not have the authority to issue an arrest warrant to any Texas-based law enforcement? The financial penalty involved counts upwards until halfway through April, upon which it gets locked in and Infowars foregoes the ability to get it reimbursed. We have about two weeks until we find out if Alex has to cough up half a million dollars or not. I'm tempted to go back and find the episode where he openly bragged on air about his unspecific plans to make sure the Sandy Hook Families get no money.
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Apr 2, 2022 11:34
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He’s going to ignore all the fines and even the trial on damages and then file for bankruptcy the moment the verdict is handed down in order to dodge paying out. I’m skeptical as to whether he’ll ever pay anything at all.
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Apr 2, 2022 14:11
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Deptfordx posted:Going through backlog of post election stuff. Steve P telling Alex in so many words "I have been playing you for decades and I will continue to do so and there's nothing you can do about it" was loving.... probably the wildest poo poo that's ever happened on the show, to me. I forget when it was but it's basically the last time he was on, I think, before Alex decided yea maybe this guy should gently caress off.
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Apr 2, 2022 15:56
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I'm early into the Twitch era on my old episodes listen through... Didn't realize that was a thing they did. It's been less disruptive than I thought when they first started pitching it but every time they reference reactions from the chat it's a little weird. How long was this a thing? Was there a particular reason they stopped?
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Apr 2, 2022 21:12
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It didn't last long iirc, I think it just introduced a lot of tech and audio issues without adding a lot of benefit.
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Apr 2, 2022 23:53
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Me and David Knight?! Come on!!!
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Apr 3, 2022 00:00
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These are all civil cases, so unless I very much mistaken, he can never be arrested for contempt of court.Mr. Nice! posted:He’s going to ignore all the fines and even the trial on damages and then file for bankruptcy the moment the verdict is handed down in order to dodge paying out. I’m skeptical as to whether he’ll ever pay anything at all. As hosed up as it is, I think this is exactly how it is going to play out. He has time to move assets and money around prior to a judgement to obscure them.
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Apr 3, 2022 00:38
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Mr. Nice! posted:He’s going to ignore all the fines and even the trial on damages and then file for bankruptcy the moment the verdict is handed down in order to dodge paying out. I’m skeptical as to whether he’ll ever pay anything at all. you cant discharge judgment liens from bankruptcy so even if he does do that, hes basically going to be having all his accounts and property liened and if he starts some replacement business it's going to get hosed
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Apr 3, 2022 01:03
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If he does anything my money is on flee the country
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Apr 3, 2022 03:33
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Megabound posted:If he does anything my money is on flee the country I keep repeating it, but I see Jones killing himself, specifically live while broadcasting. He's a narcissist and Alex will let no one but himself write the end of his narrative.
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Apr 3, 2022 05:47
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It is not unreasonable for him, mechanically speaking, to consider suicide. If he does indeed have the narcissistic personality disorder diagnosis that his ex-wife's custody case reported him as having, then he was always at risk for it. NPD might have the complex where they crave the adoration of others as a source of narcissistic supply, to the point of developing abusive relationships in order to keep the lines of supply functioning as such; but the flip side of that is if all lines of supply dry up instantaneously, things can turn dark very quickly. It does cast the multiple times he swore he would "never kill himself, and if he did, it was a government conspiracy to hide the truth," in a different light. This claim has been a constant throughout his career, and since the majority of the claims about his imagined enemies are a source of projection, there is a chance he has struggled with suicide ideation in the past at least once. However, the relationship between narcissism and suicide is only limited to cases of severe narcissistic injury, while the link between narcissism and suicide more generally is still understudied. The other caveat is, as Jordan points out, Alex does not understand the meaning of words. Language is not a means of communication for Alex so much as it is a type of birdsong meant to draw the attention of other, similar birds. The suicide narrative might have just been a song Alex found he could easily sing. We always have to keep in mind that words on InfoWars might not have meaning. My guess the more likely thing which could cause Alex to finally lose it is not being bankrupted as such, but rather anything which would cause him to lose access to his ability to broadcast the show. That would be a significant enough narcissistic injury to consider. But given the way the three court cases are going, we don't know if the judgments would end InfoWars, or if they will demand InfoWars to continue operation in order to make the necessary payments. Morroque fucked around with this message at 11:35 on Apr 3, 2022 |
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Apr 3, 2022 09:30
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MrMojok posted:These are all civil cases, so unless I very much mistaken, he can never be arrested for contempt of court. It’s uncommon but you can https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capias_ad_respondendum In the common law legal systems, capias ad respondendum (Latin: "that you may capture [him] in order for him to reply") is or was a writ issued by a court to the sheriff of a particular county to bring the defendant, having failed to appear, to answer a civil action against him.
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Apr 3, 2022 17:29
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