|
FlamingLiberal posted:I believe it was established way back in 'The Cage' that Pike is very into horses Good news: we got the horse out of the hospital Bad news: now it's in space
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2022 06:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 18:04 |
|
|
Knormal posted:Just consider Discovery and its spinoffs a separate universe. There's no way to reconcile the stuff they're doing with classic Trek. Honestly, I don't think there's a lot in Discovery that's incompatible with TOS. There's the Spore Drive, but that's explicitly mentioned to be a top secret experimental program that Starfleet sealed the records of after Discovery disappeared. There's the whole "Klingons are casually violent and obsessed with dying in battle and honor and don't care about diplomacy" thing, but that's a change that TNG made. I guess there's Spock having a human foster sister he never mentioned, but eh. A lot of the differences are just aesthetic, and that's due to the facts that, first, Discovery, unlike TOS, isn't being used to sell color TVs, and second that technology has advanced in 55 years and what we consider futuristic has too, so we no longer consider dials and toggle switches on consoles, computers that can talk to you, a handheld tablet that can display printed text and can be signed with a stylus, a cartridge based libray, or a communication device that can fit in your pocket to be cutting edge, futuristic marvels.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2022 06:12
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:I believe it was established way back in 'The Cage' that Pike is very into horses Yep. From the transcript....he's talking to Dr. Boyce about his frustrations quote:PIKE: You bet I'm tired. You bet. I'm tired of being responsible for two hundred and three lives. I'm tired of deciding which mission is too risky and which isn't, and who's going on the landing party and who doesn't, and who lives and who dies. Boy, I've had it, Phil. I mean, I guess you can be glad that, of the two options, Strange New Worlds decided to go with the horses.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2022 06:16
|
|
|
blastron posted:Star Trek has been pretty consistent in depicting computers as completely interoperable no matter where or when they came from. In Future’s End, Janeway was able to steal Cronowerx’s entire database by vaguely waving a tricorder at a desktop computer. Tricorder makes it okay. That poo poo scans every connection and thing-a-tricorder-could-connect and is like "lmao can you believe this poo poo, here's a filetree of secrets for your perusal, IN LCARS"
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2022 06:17
|
|
|
Even that goon Archer was somehow able to hack an ATM to spit out some cash using his dinky scanner, though I can't remember if ENT ever bothered to establish the capabilities of those little things.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2022 06:24
|
|
|
Cranappleberry posted:whereas breaking into a police car that was likely alarmed with no further plan other than hack a computer to get the location, then stealing the car and hoping to get the transporters back online with no engineering staff but a single scientist after attracting a ton of police attention. And for sure there were cameras outside the station. This is easily explained by pointing out Rafi is an unstable moron. That's her core character trait across both seasons.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2022 07:24
|
|
|
Megillah Gorilla posted:Who left her Supervisor role and became a Romulan Tal Shiar for most of her new life and married Gumbo. Oh right that's it isn't it, all this time Picard is talking to her about givin up on non-interference and having a life is angling towards some kind of hypocrisy moment in the future. She's his watcher.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2022 08:28
|
|
|
CPColin posted:Computer, disengage holodeck safety protocols Excessive fat is now stored in the isoline....B̶͚͉͕̳͓̘̰͖͍͍̮̻͍͓̈́͂̀A̴̫̤͒̒̀̓̽̍̉̇̑̑̋̽́L̶̤̬̫̥̐̑̽̀͗̽̔́̈́́̏̔̽̕͠L̴̛̠̋͆̏͛̃̾S̶̩̮̓̒͐̒͆͆̏̋̈́͝
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2022 09:23
|
|
|
Epicurius posted:Honestly, I don't think there's a lot in Burnham that's incompatible with TOS. There's the Burnham, but that's explicitly mentioned to be a top secret experimental program that Starfleet sealed the records of after Burnham disappeared. There's the whole "Burnham are casually violent and obsessed with dying in battle and honor and don't care about Burnham" thing, but that's a change that TNG made. I guess there's Burnham having a human foster sister he never mentioned, but eh. A lot of the Burnham are just aesthetic, and that's due to the facts that, first, Burnham, unlike TOS, isn't being used to sell Burnham TVs, and second that technology has advanced in 55 years and what we consider Burnham has too, so we no longer consider dials and toggle switches on consoles, Burnham that can talk to you, a handheld Burnham that can display printed text and can be signed with a stylus, a cartridge based Burnham, or a communication Burnham that can fit in your pocket to be cutting edge, futuristic marvels. There, fixed.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2022 09:25
|
|
|
Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:Scottie managed to synthesize Transparent Aluminum on a DOS computer. Suck it up, Frances.  Epicurius posted:Honestly, I don't think there's a lot in Discovery that's incompatible with TOS. There's the Spore Drive, but that's explicitly mentioned to be a top secret experimental program that Starfleet sealed the records of after Discovery disappeared. There's the whole "Klingons are casually violent and obsessed with dying in battle and honor and don't care about diplomacy" thing, but that's a change that TNG made. I guess there's Spock having a human foster sister he never mentioned, but eh. A lot of the differences are just aesthetic, and that's due to the facts that, first, Discovery, unlike TOS, isn't being used to sell color TVs, and second that technology has advanced in 55 years and what we consider futuristic has too, so we no longer consider dials and toggle switches on consoles, computers that can talk to you, a handheld tablet that can display printed text and can be signed with a stylus, a cartridge based libray, or a communication device that can fit in your pocket to be cutting edge, futuristic marvels. Then there's the general timeline stuff. They have holographic communications where who you're talking to appears standing in front of you when that was explicitly a new breakthrough introduced and commented on in DS9 (then dropped because apparently it was too confusing for audiences that the character wasn't "really" there). There was apparently a full-scale Federation/Klingon war with weird giant-headed people-eating Klingons never mentioned or seen again. They have people with full cybernetic implants when Geordi's visor was considered groundbreaking a century later. They discovered the mirror universe ahead of Kirk but I guess classified it away along with the spore stuff. Oh and apparently mirror universe people can't take our well-lit starships because they're evil so they like it dark? I totally get what you're saying that if they made a new show conforming to the TOS or even TNG visuals it wouldn't look very futuristic, but that's why you do what the Kelvinverse did and call it an alternate timeline, or do what Picard did and set it even more in the future, then it doesn't matter. I just personally can't fit what Discovery showed us in to prior canon.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2022 09:48
|
|
|
GATOS Y VATOS posted:Lower Decks is the best of the new shows imo
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2022 10:41
|
|
|
DaveKap posted:It's amazing what happens when you take old lore and say "what if?" instead of "how do we gently caress up?" It's amazing what happens when you say 'this episode of a tv show needs to have a beginning, middle and end of a story and ideally one or more of the characters should learn some sort of lesson along the way'.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2022 11:28
|
|
|
And when a show is written by people who obviously know and love Trek beyond the pitiful "here's a reference!" of the live shows.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2022 12:11
|
|
|
Knormal posted:The thing is we explicitly see the TOS bridge twice in 90's Trek and it looks identical to the 60's bridge. I'm fine handwaving away the spore drive and Spock's secret foster sister and stuff like that, but I can't fit the technology into the timeline. I'll admit I only watched about half of Discovery season 1 so I don't have a lot to pull from here, but I can't believe they went from pop-up holographic displays to buttons in like a decade. And even if you ignore the TOS stuff everything in Discovery looks more advanced than even the Next-Gen era. Basically you have to ignore all the visuals in prior Trek, and at that point you might as well consider it separate. Enterprise handled the same problem a lot better, it still looked more advanced that TOS of course but not ridiculously so. Just repeat to yourself “it’s just a show, I should really just relax”. I don’t mean that facetiously, that’s really what you should do. Star Trek is a TV show, and sacrifices must be made to absolute continuity purity in order to at least attempt to make entertaining television. TOS had the production design it did because it was a TV show in the 1960s, and not because a considered theoretical construction of the far future concluded that the advanced materials that would be used to created a real FTL starship would look identical to cheap plywood. The OG Enterprise bridge looks the same in the TNG and DS9 episodes because they were one-off nostalgic gags, not real attempts to re-do the location with modern technology. This poo poo happens all the time. For all the complaints about the DISCO Klingons, it’s the second time they have completely changed them. TOS and TNG Klingons are basically entirely different species that look and act totally unalike. Even this last episode of Picard, by recanonising Gary Seven and the fact that Kirk and co met him, they are also re-establishing that the Enterprise used to casually travel back in time to study the past. Which completely breaks the rest of the continuity in a hundred ways. But Gary Seven is a fun callback, so who gives a poo poo?
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2022 13:18
|
|
|
Discovery isn't Canon because, and this is critical, I don't want it to be.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2022 14:52
|
|
|
Comrade Fakename posted:Just repeat to yourself “it’s just a show, I should really just relax”. But what aesthetically did we gain? Everything new looks like generic poo poo. Discovery is now just another sci fi, only dumber. It's aesthetic tries to ape the Expanse but utterly fails. The color grading is obnoxious and just follows the worst trends of modern film to color correct everything to look wrong. Watch like any other modern show and then watch nuTrek. It looks wrong. Like the Picard episode this week is massively color corrected orange for no god damned reason. A lot of Trek works together because it's feels like it's part of the same universe. Nothing in Discovery or Picard looks like it's out old Trek, they just match the new lovely generic vision. Trek used to set its' own visual standards instead of just doing modern sci-fi trends, now it follows them blindly. Also they did update the TOS bridge for ENT, and it looked great. In a Mirror Darkly was not only a great two parter, but it showed that you can do the TOS aesthetic and make it look more 'techy'. As for the makeup changed, the Klingon changes happened for good reason earlier given the kind of racist original design, but that was still acknowledged later on. Meanwhile why do Andorians, Tellarites, and Orions (to name a few) look entirely different now? (and worse with the possible exception of the tellarites) And I don't think Picard's callbacks are fun. If they had substance to them, understanding why people liked them, then I'd forgive it, like I was at the start of the season. But now it's just listing references in your lovely heist show to try and distract that it's hollow. Like this comparison is on my mind since I watched the new Picard alongside the Halo show and it's ridiculous how not only do John Halo's adventures look awesome without any obnoxious color grading, it's also just a better sci fi show that tells a story each episode with a beginning, middle, and end. Somehow John Halo is a better character than Jean Luc Picard nowadays.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2022 15:05
|
|
|
Eimi posted:But what aesthetically did we gain? Everything new looks like generic poo poo. Discovery is now just another sci fi, only dumber. It's aesthetic tries to ape the Expanse but utterly fails. The color grading is obnoxious and just follows the worst trends of modern film to color correct everything to look wrong. Watch like any other modern show and then watch nuTrek. It looks wrong. Like the Picard episode this week is massively color corrected orange for no god damned reason. A lot of Trek works together because it's feels like it's part of the same universe. Nothing in Discovery or Picard looks like it's out old Trek, they just match the new lovely generic vision. Trek used to set its' own visual standards instead of just doing modern sci-fi trends, now it follows them blindly. Also they did update the TOS bridge for ENT, and it looked great. In a Mirror Darkly was not only a great two parter, but it showed that you can do the TOS aesthetic and make it look more 'techy'. Well now you just made it too obvious
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2022 15:26
|
|
|
CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:Well now you just made it too obvious Being a better show than Picard isn't a high bar whatever you think of the Halo show.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2022 15:30
|
|
|
Megillah Gorilla posted:
Well she's in charge of the ship and transporter in the last couple episodes cause she's literally the only person they have.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2022 15:34
|
|
|
True. It's not like they could leave Raffi alone on the ship and expect to return to anything except a charred crater.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2022 16:09
|
|
|
I did notice they threw in ‘former spy’ to describe Raffi this episode. Is that the first time that’s been brought up?
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2022 16:17
|
|
|
Cranappleberry posted:whereas breaking into a police car that was likely alarmed with no further plan other than hack a computer to get the location, then stealing the car and hoping to get the transporters back online with no engineering staff but a single scientist after attracting a ton of police attention. And for sure there were cameras outside the station. We are all getting they are going for some hamfisted commentary about white privilege in a crisis situation, right? Like, "Black people fight fascism like this [reacts with the charged desperation and outrage of someone who sees death and oppression all around them], but white people fight fascism like this [follows the rules]." Drink-Mix Man fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Apr 3, 2022 |
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2022 16:21
|
|
|
Knormal posted:Just consider Discovery and its spinoffs a separate universe. There's no way to reconcile the stuff they're doing with classic Trek. Just stop considering TOS canon and that fixes most lore issues, dating back to TNG maybe even TAS. TOS was thrown together a thousand years ago, got cancelled fast, and they never planned ahead for a decades long franchise with tons of other shows under its umbrella. TOS is good to get some trekky aesthetics and stuff but it's events and stories are too dated to reconcile with how the franchise has grown. Just think of it as a apocryphal place where a lot of characters and things can be salvaged from for use in modern Treks. They probably should've just remade TOS but SNW will be close enough.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2022 17:20
|
|
|
Yeah, it’s easier to think of TOS as the cheap documentary version of 23rd century events someone made in the nebulous future. That’s why I’m not really bothered by the aesthetic changes.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2022 17:24
|
|
|
New trek is not only canon, it's more canon
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2022 18:04
|
|
|
HD DAD posted:Yeah, it’s easier to think of TOS as the cheap documentary version of 23rd century events someone made in the nebulous future. That’s why I’m not really bothered by the aesthetic changes. Anyone whining about the Enterprise bridge not having unlabeled jellybean buttons and dials that go "whoooo oooooh whoooo oooooh whooooo" would guaranteed be 100 percent complaining if it still did.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2022 18:56
|
|
|
New SNW trailer looks kind of reminiscent of Star Trek: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL4iCAB6MFo
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2022 19:24
|
|
|
Drink-Mix Man posted:New SNW trailer looks kind of reminiscent of Star Trek: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL4iCAB6MFo I'm actually very excited for this, and have been since S2 Discovery when it was clear they could do a fantastic spinoff.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2022 19:29
|
|
|
It looks good, I like the set designs and the bits of alien-of-the-week settings they showed The dialogue is a little "well that just happened" but that's how every single genre TV show is written nowadays
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2022 20:47
|
|
|
my only beef is the boyband hair style looks a little weird silver-foxed but he's a pretty man so I guess no reason to lean away from it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2022 20:48
|
|
|
Eimi posted:But what aesthetically did we gain? Everything new looks like generic poo poo. Discovery is now just another sci fi, only dumber. It's aesthetic tries to ape the Expanse but utterly fails. The color grading is obnoxious and just follows the worst trends of modern film to color correct everything to look wrong. Watch like any other modern show and then watch nuTrek. It looks wrong. Like the Picard episode this week is massively color corrected orange for no god damned reason. The lighting bit is the one thing that I don't like. I've never even watched TOS, so I don't really give a poo poo about the exact details but come on, show us a vision of the future where people can still afford friggin' lightbulbs. We get it, your show is moody and edgy and dark, but at least give us a bridge where people aren't gonna trip over poo poo cause they can't see. The medbay in that trailer is beautiful, just make the bridge like that, too, and I'm happy. Compare this:  To this:   That second shot looks like they're in a nightclub, come on.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2022 21:03
|
|
|
The Chairman posted:The dialogue is a little "well that just happened" but that's how every single genre TV show is written nowadays Plus I think that's mostly something they do for the trailers. A 42-minute episode of Star Trek probably isn't gonna be wall-to-wall Whedon quips, thankfully. Even if an errant "yum yum" sneaks through sometimes, we've still got Star Trek's built-in tonal firewall of violin recitals and JAG hearings keeping most of the Marvel tendencies at bay.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2022 21:14
|
|
|
I think both those second shots are more visually interesting than flat lighting TOS
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2022 21:14
|
|
|
Drink-Mix Man posted:New SNW trailer looks kind of reminiscent of Star Trek: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL4iCAB6MFo
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2022 21:24
|
|
|
You know what I hope they bring back for SNW? Episode titles after the opening credits. I really miss those.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2022 21:33
|
|
|
I wonder if we’ll ever get a ‘Space… the final frontier.” intro again.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2022 21:37
|
|
|
Charity Porno posted:I'm actually very excited for this, and have been since S2 Discovery when it was clear they could do a fantastic spinoff. So am I, I just keep hoping it avoids being shitastic. Nurse Chapel going Three Stooges on Spock was a good step in the right direction, as was Uhura pointing out that Spock loves time limits. One thing that points up something- he turns to Number One and as an aside says 'I love this job' This show hopefully is taking place at the start of his Enterprise command, and The Talos IV stuff must take place wayyyy later (oh please don't bring it up until at least the fourth season) because by then he's talking to a different ships doctor (Boyce, not M'benga) effectively saying over a martini that his job now sucks. Binary Badger fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Apr 3, 2022 |
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2022 21:52
|
|
|
The_Doctor posted:I wonder if we’ll ever get a ‘Space… the final frontier.” intro again. Not in SNW just going by how much they tap danced around just saying the drat thing. The trailer was like "what if we just use a thesaurus for the iconic starfleet mandate instead of just saying it?"
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2022 21:59
|
|
|
poo poo for a moment I thought the woman that Spock kissed was Uhura and I was like "NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!" Whew.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2022 22:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 18:04 |
|
|
Binary Badger posted:This show hopefully is taking place at the start of his Enterprise command, and The Talos IV stuff must take place wayyyy later (oh please don't bring it up until at least the fourth season) because by then he's talking to a different ships doctor (Boyce, not M'benga) effectively saying over a martini that his job now sucks. and in Disco S2 we find out that the events of The Cage are in the past
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2022 22:06
|
|