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We never bothered formatting them just running traffic as a bulk device using fio/medusa tools. But that seems a bit weird! Did they "fix" it by using a write buffer for later generation stuff while the format slogged along on the optane cells or did they get faster?
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Mar 16, 2022 05:56
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I believe the explanation given is that an nvme format is a full on low-level format, it's not just toggling some bits in metadata like they do with NAND Between that and a lack of NVMe namespace management fields that were defined back in 2000 loving 14 there was some super annoying hiccups WhyteRyce fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Mar 16, 2022 |
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Mar 16, 2022 05:58
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PCIe 3.0 NVMe controllers generated some heat but generally not enough to matter except in unusual conditions. 4.0 controllers generated a good bit more heat, and some drives can thermal throttle during regular operation without a heatsink, though it's usually not bad enough to matter much. 5.0 is expected to be a substantial step up again, with heat dissipation now potentially being a serious problem for all NVMe drives of that spec across most use cases. The solution?  Massive loving heatsinks. Thanks, Thermalright. http://www.thermalright.com/product/hr-09-2280-pro/ Or maybe we should make drive controllers that don't constantly overheat, idk Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 07:42 on Apr 4, 2022 |
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Apr 4, 2022 07:40
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didn't pcie 3.0 motherboard heatsinks initially just trap the m.2 heat and make everything worse
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Apr 4, 2022 12:13
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kliras posted:didn't pcie 3.0 motherboard heatsinks initially just trap the m.2 heat and make everything worse they weren't really built like actual heatsinks, using aluminum/copper pipes and proper lapped contact with conducive paste
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Apr 4, 2022 13:24
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most of them are just blocks of metal that won't dissipate heat well, but they at least give some extra thermal mass to smooth over thermal spikes
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Apr 4, 2022 13:30
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Massive loving heatsinks. Thanks, Thermalright. http://www.thermalright.com/product/hr-09-2280-pro/ People have been selling pointlessly-oversize heatsinks since about 5 minutes after NBMe drives came out, including watercooling. Power consumption of PCIe 4 drives is on average higher than 3, but not by enough to make ginormous heatsinks at all needed. They consume 6-7 watts during RL operations rather than 4-5. That still doesn't need a major heatsink to deal with in a normal desktop configuration. It's only a problem if you hotbox it in a laptop or the PS5's SSD coffin. kliras posted:didn't pcie 3.0 motherboard heatsinks initially just trap the m.2 heat and make everything worse There were some mobos that had do-dads over the m.2 slots that didn't have thermal pads, and so were pretty much just decorative. Those would make a hot drive worse because they'd block airflow and hotbox the card. However, there were far more cases where people that looked at a thin flat piece of metal and said "this isn't a heatsink, it can't remove any heat". Not understanding that the amount of heat a controller throws off is relatively trivial, and all that's needed is to get it out of the controller chip itself. Just sharing it with the rest of the card is enough cooling. Klyith fucked around with this message at 13:40 on Apr 4, 2022 |
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Apr 4, 2022 13:38
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Massive loving heatsinks. Thanks, Thermalright. http://www.thermalright.com/product/hr-09-2280-pro/ Interesting product. If just the fins weren't perpendicular to the airflow.
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Apr 4, 2022 14:13
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If massive heatsinks taught me anything, it's that they don't operate on the principles of physics as much as blood sacrifices.
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Apr 4, 2022 14:17
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I don't know where to ask this but I'm on Win10 and I got this External SSD but when I plug it in, it doesn't really "recognize" it or something. I don't know anything about computers or terms, but when I click on Properties or Device Manager, it gives the right name of the thing but says it has 0 Capacity and poo poo. I've tried plugging it into a few different US ports and always same result. Tried uninstalling it a few times and still nothing. That is about the limit of what I can think to do. There's a blue light on the SSD case if that's anything.
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Apr 4, 2022 18:17
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NikkolasKing posted:I don't know where to ask this but I'm on Win10 and I got this External SSD but when I plug it in, it doesn't really "recognize" it or something. I don't know anything about computers or terms, but when I click on Properties or Device Manager, it gives the right name of the thing but says it has 0 Capacity and poo poo. Right-click on the start button, select 'disk management' from the menu. That will give you a list of drives in the system. It may just need to be initialized -- the drive has a big black bar and says 'not initialized'. (most regular HDD external drives come pre-initialized, but ssd ones might not? I've never used an off-the-shelf external ssd.)
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Apr 4, 2022 18:27
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Klyith posted:Right-click on the start button, select 'disk management' from the menu. That will give you a list of drives in the system. It may just need to be initialized -- the drive has a big black bar and says 'not initialized'. Well this isn't encouraging, It's not even showing up there, all I see is my regular C drive, a USB drive I have in, and (Disk 0 partition 1) and (Disk 0 partition 2)
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Apr 4, 2022 18:35
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Try Windows key + R diskpart list disk if the drive shows up there then the partition table might just be messed up, and can be fixed with select disk [number] clean exit make sure you get the number right so you don't nuke the wrong drive
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Apr 4, 2022 18:48
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^^^e: yo, I wouldn't recommend diskpart & particularly diskpart clean to someone who says "I don't know anything about computers" that is a great way to escalate a minor problem into a major mistake NikkolasKing posted:Well this isn't encouraging, It's not even showing up there, all I see is my regular C drive, a USB drive I have in, and (Disk 0 partition 1) and (Disk 0 partition 2) You're looking in the lower panel, right?  That bottom half, where there's a graphical representation of your drives. (Be sure to scroll down or expand the window to see everything.) if it's not there I'd try it in a different PC to be sure, but you may have gotten a bum ebay Klyith fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Apr 4, 2022 |
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Apr 4, 2022 18:55
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Klyith posted:^^^e: yo, I wouldn't recommend diskpart & particularly diskpart clean to someone who says "I don't know anything about computers" Yeah it's not there at all. I unplugged everything save for the SSD, keyboard and mouse and now the only thing that shows up is my internal drive. I'm afraid you might be right, I'll see if I can try it on my GF's computer sometime soon-ish. But hey, it does say 1 year warranty so hopefully I can get my money back. Just irritating is all. Thanks for your help. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Apr 4, 2022 |
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Apr 4, 2022 19:11
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I'm going to be picking up a Mac Studio and am going to skimp on internal storage as it's quite expensive (works out to ~$350 per TB -- I understand the Mac SSDs are extremely fast, but I think that speed is overkill for me). I'm looking for advice on what approach I should take to adding external SSD storage. Main options seem to be:
It seems like going with M2 drives + USB enclosure is the way to go, as it's both the cheapest option, and has higher performing drives. If/when TB3 enclosures ever come down in price I'd have the option of swapping to those for increased performance if that's ever needed. Am I missing anything here? Also, I've heard all-in-one external SSDs sometimes aren't able to maintain their advertised speed on larger transfers. Is that something to be concerned about with the T7, or are they actually ~ twice as fast as a SATA SSD in an enclosure? My main workloads that hit storage (and the files that are currently on my internal outside of OS/apps) are for photo editing (currently working with 24MP RAWs but that could increase) and loading large sample libraries for music production. I also might start doing some light video editing as well (planning on getting a GoPro or similar later this year). For now though, I'd wager photo editing is where drive speed could be most noticeable (quickly switching between photos), but since the file sizes are small I think that's more of a latency problem than bandwidth problem (e.g. will notice a difference between HDD and SSD, but won't between slower SSD and faster SSD). On the music side, I believe it's more of a one time loading of samples into RAM rather than constantly hitting the drive, so I don't think speed matters as much here. Any recommendations or additional information I should consider?
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Apr 4, 2022 23:16
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Klyith posted:People have been selling pointlessly-oversize heatsinks since about 5 minutes after NBMe drives came out, including watercooling. Which is why I get the impression that this sort of oversized heatsink is designed for 5.0 drives instead. I don't know how much power those controllers will use, but early reports indicate that they could be pretty toasty chips. I mean, heatsinks that large will be overkill with 5.0 too, but I think that's the idea, at least.
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Apr 4, 2022 23:22
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The m.2 power limit of 7.9 watts (I think, the specs aren't public but that number shows up in some documents) puts a pretty hard limit on how toasty the drives can get
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Apr 4, 2022 23:49
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An enterprise 22x110 m.2 gets plenty toasty and can hit thermal throttle range easily if sitting in open air without a heat sink
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Apr 4, 2022 23:50
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Splinter posted:2GB/s+ M.2 NVMe SSD in USB3 enclosure (which will limit speeds to ~1GB/s), e.g. SN550 - $170 for 2TB + $20-30 for an enclosure (so surprisingly the cheapest option) Is the enclosure you are looking at a NVMe enclosure? Note that M.2 can be either SATA or NVMe, and most enclosures are one or the other. Splinter posted:Also, I've heard all-in-one external SSDs sometimes aren't able to maintain their advertised speed on larger transfers. Is that something to be concerned about with the T7, or are they actually ~ twice as fast as a SATA SSD in an enclosure? I'd guess a decent number of external SSDs are QLC flash with relatively snall cache space, which would produce that effect. So this would depend very much on the drive model. But the SN550 is now a QLC drive so it has the same downside. External drives are faster than SATA internal drives at maximum transfer speed because SATA is slower than USB3. Splinter posted:My main workloads that hit storage (and the files that are currently on my internal outside of OS/apps) are for photo editing (currently working with 24MP RAWs but that could increase) and loading large sample libraries for music production. I also might start doing some light video editing as well (planning on getting a GoPro or similar later this year). For now though, I'd wager photo editing is where drive speed could be most noticeable (quickly switching between photos), but since the file sizes are small I think that's more of a latency problem than bandwidth problem (e.g. will notice a difference between HDD and SSD, but won't between slower SSD and faster SSD). On the music side, I believe it's more of a one time loading of samples into RAM rather than constantly hitting the drive, so I don't think speed matters as much here. You are correct that your workload won't produce noticeable differences between your different options of SSD speed, so TBQH Additional information to consider: Do you care about resale value? (I'd guess that an internal drive + enclosure might be easier to sell.) Or do you plan to keep this drive yourself, possibly after you stop using it as extra storage permanently attacked to your mac? The question is because SSDs have one weakness, which is that data can degrade over time (many months or years). To solve this the controllers will scan and re-write weak data -- but it can't do that if it doesn't have power. External drives are designed with more attention in this area than internal ones, since they know they may not be powered all the time. So while you're using this as a permanent addition to your Mac, it doesn't really matter. But if you're thinking "well in a few years I'll repurpose this as a travel drive" or something, it might be good to get a external designed for the purpose. If you're gonna sell it on SAmart when you don't need it, whatever.
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Apr 4, 2022 23:59
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Klyith posted:Is the enclosure you are looking at a NVMe enclosure? Note that M.2 can be either SATA or NVMe, and most enclosures are one or the other. Klyith posted:I'd guess a decent number of external SSDs are QLC flash with relatively snall cache space, which would produce that effect. So this would depend very much on the drive model. But the SN550 is now a QLC drive so it has the same downside. Klyith posted:Additional information to consider:
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Apr 5, 2022 02:04
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Splinter posted:I believe so, I was looking at things like this and this, among others. Righto, thumbs up. (I kinda hadn't realized nvme enclosures were already a chinesium commodity.) Splinter posted:Even the SN570, which I believe still has TLC (no?) Correct. Splinter posted:Going the other direction, there's the SN350 for $155. I'm assuming that would still be a better option than a SATA MX500 or equivalent in an enclosure? The MX500 is sata so has a transfer speed cap, but is TLC and has quite reliable performance. The SN350 is extremely slow to write when its cache gets exhausted -- it falls to HDD speeds. And not a good HDD. But honestly the TLC-QLC gap may not even be a big deal to you. QLC is fast for reads, it's the writes where it suffers. So if you aren't doing large, ~10GB writes frequently you won't see that downside. Depends on your work.
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Apr 5, 2022 02:52
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I've got this https://www.amazon.com/SSK-Aluminum-Tool-Free-Enclosure-Portable/dp/B0892BK5L6/ one and actually if you don't attach the m.2 screw the nvme card will pull itself up and with a small thermal pad, the entire thing becomes a heatsink without having to do anything really. It's been solid for me doing a lot of SSD imaging.
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Apr 5, 2022 14:39
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Does anyone know if the WD SN850 heatsink has spacing issues with GPUs if you use your board's flat M.2 slots? I know it's board-dependent for the position, but is it substantially thicker than the plates that come with most high-end boards? I can always get the bare model, but I feel like WD's own solution beats generic thermal goop and whatever spreader.
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Apr 7, 2022 03:18
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I just ran into that, installed one with a heatsink on a C8H WiFi. Was worried about the same thing because the 6900XT is p beefy, but the only real issue ended up being that I forgot this board comes with its own nvme heatsinks, so I had to take that part of the board off and set it aside. It's not necessarily as clean looking, but their heatsink kind of makes up for it with how cool it looks E: To be specific, there's enough room, and can still see the RGB LED if that's your thing (I didn't know it had one when I bought it)
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Apr 7, 2022 03:30
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Thanks - I'm looking at a 3070 that's the size of a small boat.
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Apr 7, 2022 03:33
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Shumagorath posted:Does anyone know if the WD SN850 heatsink has spacing issues with GPUs if you use your board's flat M.2 slots? I know it's board-dependent for the position, but is it substantially thicker than the plates that come with most high-end boards? The heatsink is definitely tall enough to intrude into the PCIe card's allowed space. Also this reddit thread says the 850 heatsink is a bitch to remove. Personally I wouldn't do it. Shumagorath posted:I can always get the bare model, but I feel like WD's own solution beats generic thermal goop and whatever spreader. You don't need more than a thin spreader and some silicone chewing gum to disperse 7 watts. Really. NVMe drive overheating is the most overblown thing, it is seriously not a problem in RL desktop use: quote:To test thermal management, we set the room to 23C and left the SSD without airflow in an open-air test bench. [...] We observed peak temperatures of 92C (accurate with S.M.A.R.T reporting) after the SLC cache absorbed 700GB of data and read back roughly half of that. Thermal throttling engaged when the controller surpassed 88C, which occurred after transferring roughly 600GB of data. The task that produces maximum heating is large sustained sequential reads and writes. The task that an normal PC enthusiast will do that is most likely to overheat & throttle their drive is ... benchmarks.
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Apr 7, 2022 04:31
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I've got an SN850 boot drive in the M.2 slot right above the GPU (the CPU connected slot on 99% of desktop boards which you should use with a 4x PCIe 4.0 drive, none of the others really benefit at all), and in regular use I don't think you really need to worry about the heatsink, provided your board has some sort of minimal integrated heatspreader + thermal pad situation. And maybe not even then. I'm hitting my 3090 with FurMark for 10 minutes and the SSD is sitting at 61 degrees. And considering how liquid-hot the 3090 backplate gets and that I'm also using an AIO in a case with limited front airflow, thats prolly a worst case for most home users.  Also yes i know a "new application" is available if 1 of u clowns calls me out i swear to god
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Apr 7, 2022 04:48
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My SN 550 would get worryingly hot in my old pc, but that's because there was no airflow and it sat beneath a 970. Since Shumagorath's planning on getting a Fractal Torrent, that's not gonna be an issue.
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Apr 7, 2022 04:52
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Thanks everyone; that was not a surprise I wanted to spring on Easter weekend.
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Apr 7, 2022 12:44
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Don't know if this is the right thread, direct me elsewhere if not please. Bought a 16 tb external SSD from Ali Express to back up all my files. Let the file copying process run for several days before checking up on the progress. The files came from several different drives \ partitions on my computer. All the original files and folders worked just fine, I double and triple checked. On the SSD, a few files actually worked. A few were corrupt and couldn't be opened at all . Possibly more to the point, even though the copying process took a lot of time, all the folders were empty of files. I double checked that - copied a folder, watched all the files get added to it on the SSD. None of the files could be opened, and when I left the folder and returned, it was marked as empty, all the files I just so added to it were gone. Just in case, I decided to delete all the files on the SSD and try copying the most important stuff one folder at a time. After deleting everything on the SSD and checking to make sure my recycling bin is empty.... all the files are still taking up space, even though the drive is marked as empty. Is there something I'm missing and \ or a way to solve this? Xander77 fucked around with this message at 05:54 on Apr 18, 2022 |
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Apr 18, 2022 05:52
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You're honestly lucky all you bought was a fake/lovely external SSD. 16TB HDDs will run you $300+. 16TB SSDs are into the *thousands* of dollars range. I don't doubt that when you plug it in it'll tell you there's a ton of space, but there's no physical way you bought a 16TB SSD for less than  .
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Apr 18, 2022 06:16
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Xander77 posted:Don't know if this is the right thread, direct me elsewhere if not please. It's 100% fake, what they use is a firmware that just rewrites endlessly over the same 4GB thumb drive that they hide inside the enclosure while reporting a fake capacity. 16TB of fast SSD is like, well into the four digits. Five if it's enterprise.
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Apr 18, 2022 07:07
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I remember seeing a pic of one of those fake drives opened up that just was the usb IC and a big steel screw nut to give it some heft.
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Apr 18, 2022 08:00
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It should also go without saying that you should probably run a *full* malware/virus scan.
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Apr 18, 2022 08:08
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Xander77 posted:Don't know if this is the right thread, direct me elsewhere if not please. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3765300
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Apr 18, 2022 13:43
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BurritoJustice posted:It's 100% fake, what they use is a firmware that just rewrites endlessly over the same 4GB thumb drive that they hide inside the enclosure while reporting a fake capacity.
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Apr 18, 2022 13:47
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16TB for $20 though, it can't be anything other than fake. The reviews are likely all made up as well.
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Apr 18, 2022 13:56
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If 16 TB of remotely modern SSD storage is 1000 bucks from local electronics stores, there's just no way to make external SSDs for 25+ times less. Modern flash storage is not something Chinese resellers can magically make that much cheaper. E: For reference, for about $40 I can get an older 256 GB (internal) drive or a slow 120/128 GB one for $20. orcane fucked around with this message at 14:03 on Apr 18, 2022 |
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Apr 18, 2022 13:57
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Xander77 posted:Huh. In my defense, I've never encountered an outright fake product on ali express before. And searching for external drive gives you dozens of similarly priced SDD's (with no HDD drives in the first results at all), all with a decent number of reviews. It's no biggie, this kind of thing happens. Out of curiosity, what's your use case? We try to tailor advice specific to what your data is, where it is located, what you want to do with it, and how much of it there is.
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Apr 18, 2022 13:58
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