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WithoutTheFezOn posted:Well hang on. How much water can you have before you get to 100kg of steam? Can’t you just take advantage of the “1 gram of liquid effectively ‘fills’ the square and forces all gasses out” thing? Liquids have a viscosity, but yes. Since a steam chamber is usually 2 tiles tall (volcanoes not withstanding), one bottle of salt water and however many bottles of plain water will force the gas out. For volcanoes, I double lock and vacuum with a single airpump, then dump in a shitload of water via bottle emptiers.
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Mar 25, 2022 21:55
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Travic posted:So I think I'm about to the point where I can tame a metal volcano. I looked up a Francis John video and he has a bunch of automation equipment in there to move the metal out once it cools. Seems useful, but how do you keep all the equipment from melting? I know the liquid metal hits the steam and cools quickly, but drat. Water (and steam) can hold 9 times the heat of a metal, so you'd have to get quite a lot of metal built up before enough heat is in the steam to melt the steel buildings
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Mar 25, 2022 23:19
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Dezinus posted:Water (and steam) can hold 9 times the heat of a metal, so you'd have to get quite a lot of metal built up before enough heat is in the steam to melt the steel buildings Yowsa. Water is crazy.
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Mar 25, 2022 23:29
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You can pump out the remaining gases once the thing is full of steam. At 20kg+ of steam, the 2kg of regular gas will form a single layer at the top, and a gas pump will pump a decent chunk at a time. I don't know the exact rules for gas overwrite, it seems to be 100x maybe, so if you have 20kg steam, then once the bad gas is pumped to <200g, it will get stomped by steam. At least that's what happened in my last steam chamber where all I had was polluted water. I started with +150kg per tile in a 3 tile high chamber, so the steam should have got to maybe 50kg max or something like that, and I was pumping out the steam + polluted air. It was still pumping like 200g of polluted air between 2 steam chunks, when all of a sudden the steam just stomped the pOx squares when they were somewhere around 200g. Something cunning like a 1 tile gap and using gas weights to sort can help with pumping, but you don't need a vacuum. It's just messier without one.
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Mar 25, 2022 23:37
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I need to drop my excess Pip eggs somewhere. I'll figure out something to do with them later. 300 cycles later:  There's "only" 150 there because a bunch escaped during renovations. 
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Mar 26, 2022 01:01
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oh jay posted:I need to drop my excess Pip eggs somewhere. I'll figure out something to do with them later. Seal them into a 1x2 area and achieve pipception.
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Mar 26, 2022 04:11
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So. Lesson learned: Do not use polluted water in a volcano chamber. It off gasses immediately after it leaves the pipe and ruins the vacuum. I'm smart. 
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Mar 26, 2022 16:39
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Travic posted:So. Lesson learned: You can use it if you’re doing a pretty high-pressure steam room, or if you’re building up your steam atmosphere before clearing the chamber, with some kind of plan for removing undesired gases once you’ve got them smooshed into a corner by steam pressure. But yeah, serious goof if you’ve not got either of those things going! I’ve been known to use the console to just remove gas packets from seriously foolish fuckups like this, if I don’t have a good way to send workers back in to fix things the hard way, because I’m impatient.
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Mar 26, 2022 17:13
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I'm a bit of a cheater and downloaded a mod for airtight doors because I was sick of having to make liquid locks for things.
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Mar 26, 2022 17:38
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LegoMan posted:I'm a bit of a cheater and downloaded a mod for airtight doors because I was sick of having to make liquid locks for things. Feel no shame in this. Liquid locks are stupid and ugly.
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Mar 26, 2022 18:29
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I might get viscogel for the first time ever this run. Then I'll be the one laughing.
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Mar 26, 2022 19:08
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Rynoto posted:Feel no shame in this. Liquid locks are stupid and ugly. Yeah once you've built a few dozen (or even one really) there's not much reason not to cheat. They're braindead to design and don't eat much time or resources to build so I'm just making my base prettier. I guess you miss out on the slight chance a dupe drops a superheated chunk of material into a water lock, but in that case why didn't you just use oil or better?
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Mar 26, 2022 19:43
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LegoMan posted:I'm a bit of a cheater and downloaded a mod for airtight doors because I was sick of having to make liquid locks for things. Using the console to fix things like I talked about is cheating, this is for sure not. I’ve needed to magically delete chunks of gas a lot less when I’ve got the Airlock Doors mod running, myself.
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Mar 26, 2022 19:46
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It is a single player game, do whatever you want and laugh at people who try to tell you that you are cheating or playing the game wrong. That airlock mod sounds pretty useful, it's basically a pneumatic door and visco gel.
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Mar 26, 2022 21:15
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I always thought that the designers should either make airlocks easy or not. It's really arbitrary to have airlock doors work as they do but liquid locks work near-flawlessly. They should either fix the doors, or have gasses bubble through liquid locks when dupes go through.
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Mar 27, 2022 00:07
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It's loving great, the doors work like you want them to based on the mechanics and descriptions!
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Mar 27, 2022 00:07
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I have lots of mods, but the two I really don't feel guilty about are Airlock Doors and Piped Outputs. I mean, it's not hard to attach a pipe to something I think the technology level of Dupes makes it kind of a gimme. You still need to make sure the local pressure is low enough for the devices to work anyways.
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Mar 27, 2022 00:21
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LegoMan posted:I have lots of mods, but the two I really don't feel guilty about are Airlock Doors and Piped Outputs. I mean, it's not hard to attach a pipe to something I think the technology level of Dupes makes it kind of a gimme. You still need to make sure the local pressure is low enough for the devices to work anyways. I was about to mention Piped Outputs myself. I built about five SPOMs before getting the mod, and it just became rote repetition by that point. Now I can actually innovate a little.
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Mar 27, 2022 03:00
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Any tips for improving performance? I'm about 650 cycles and things are pretty slow.
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Mar 28, 2022 00:19
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Travic posted:Any tips for improving performance? I'm about 650 cycles and things are pretty slow. Solid tiles or vacuum in as many spaces as you can. Neither of those have to calculate fluid motion and vacuum doesn't have to calculate heat transfer.
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Mar 28, 2022 01:02
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Hello Sailor posted:Solid tiles or vacuum in as many spaces as you can. Neither of those have to calculate fluid motion and vacuum doesn't have to calculate heat transfer. I've heard people say solids are better than vacuum, but haven't tested it myself.
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Mar 28, 2022 01:06
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Ok. I've left most of the map in place and only dug out what I needed. So that should help. I've heard critters are bad too. How many is too many? They're my main food source.
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Mar 28, 2022 01:13
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Travic posted:Ok. I've left most of the map in place and only dug out what I needed. So that should help. If you just have a few ranches worth it shouldn't be a problem. If like me you've managed to cram 500 critters in a single room then you are in trouble. Seriously don't do this - when night came and the hatches unburrowed on that one map, my game would reliably crash. I think unlimited quantities of pacu held in a single tile of liquid are more common now, but performance wise I wouldn't recommend it. The other consideration with critters is pathfinding. While all critters will incur some small performance cost, the ones that can move more freely are more costly. You should never have free running shove voles, not just for performance reasons either. If you have a lot of wild critters in general with dug out paths to traverse most of the map, then that is bad. Jetpacks are also supposed to be bad. No one really uses them though.
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Mar 28, 2022 01:45
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Smiling Demon posted:If you just have a few ranches worth it shouldn't be a problem. If like me you've managed to cram 500 critters in a single room then you are in trouble. Seriously don't do this - when night came and the hatches unburrowed on that one map, my game would reliably crash. I think unlimited quantities of pacu held in a single tile of liquid are more common now, but performance wise I wouldn't recommend it. I haven't counted but I think I'm under a hundred. I'd guess: 30 hatches 15 pacus 15 divergents 8 shinebugs 8 dreckos
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Mar 28, 2022 02:00
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Travic posted:I haven't counted but I think I'm under a hundred. That shouldn't matter, I've had more wild critters running around then that.
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Mar 28, 2022 02:03
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In addition to the airlock mod mentioned above, two recent not-just-quality-of-life mods that I think are awesome are Waste Not, Want Not which makes dupes prefer older/staler food, and Move This Here which creates a little temporary dropoff box they will bring anything you want to and then it disappears and dumps it. With the airlock mod these three eliminate/ease a ton of dumb repetitive hand-holding crap.
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Mar 28, 2022 02:20
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Cycle 750, I should probably think about rocketry
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Mar 28, 2022 04:51
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Travic posted:Any tips for improving performance? I'm about 650 cycles and things are pretty slow. Choosing chores is the slowest part of mid/late game. Specialize your dupes, make sure nearly all their priorities are "X". (specifically, don't let them be a contender). Have several "supply" dupes. I use my janitors for this. Build storage compactors near your next build, set each compactor to a single element, let the janitors get a good start on it. Don't let your builders or diggers do "storage" or "tidy" chores. They'll pull from the compactors as they're building the SPOM/regolith melter/petroleum boiler/etc. If you have a bunch of idle dupes, scrub and reclassify them.
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Mar 28, 2022 05:26
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Dezinus posted:Water (and steam) can hold 9 times the heat of a metal, so you'd have to get quite a lot of metal built up before enough heat is in the steam to melt the steel buildings Most volcano outputs aren't hot enough to melt steel. Steel melts at 2426 which means only tungsten and niobium pose a serious threat to steel rails. Avoid the tile volcano spits metal from and the one below it. Iron and gold technically output above that temperature, but just barely so won't be able to do damage before cooling down. Copper, aluminum, cobalt or magma? Never hot enough
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Mar 28, 2022 08:29
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Travic posted:Any tips for improving performance? I'm about 650 cycles and things are pretty slow. Reducing pathfinding, cleaning up the map with a big sweep into either storage containers or dropped into a single spot using the item dropper set to sweep only, cull excess animals (not an issue for you) and finally, get a better computer sadly. If you are playing with the DLC, remember that all the planets run in the background, so the map is actually huge.
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Mar 28, 2022 09:40
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Pyromancer posted:Most volcano outputs aren't hot enough to melt steel. Steel melts at 2426 which means only tungsten and niobium pose a serious threat to steel rails. Avoid the tile volcano spits metal from and the one below it. The danger is temps over 325C will start causing heat damage even to steel. The real problem is when loading very hot rocks into the conveyor loader, the conveyor backs up, and the rocks then overheat the loader itself. The answer to this is temp shift plates! You can can be built behind the volcano itself with obsidian ones, and a couple more granite or similar rock ones in a checkerboard. No risk of melting with obsidian, and the sheer thermal mass it connects together (along with the 20kg+ per tile of steam that these will be sharing heat with) means that the output will rapidly lose heat which gets spread over a big area instead of leaving a hotspot that will break stuff.
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Mar 28, 2022 09:56
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Cool. Thanks for the tips. Yeah I have a lot of dupes (28) so I'll trim down their priorities. And I'll sweep up everything I can.
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Mar 28, 2022 14:37
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I've fully explored my entire asteroid and not one Hydrogen vent. ... but two CO2 vents
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Apr 5, 2022 02:35
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LegoMan posted:I've fully explored my entire asteroid and not one Hydrogen vent. Seems straightforward. Slicksters to turn CO2 into oil, refine it into petroleum (and natural gas), then burn the petroleum (and natural gas) in a generator and collect the resulting polluted water. Clean the polluted water and then electrolyze it, and there's your hydrogen!
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Apr 5, 2022 02:51
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Dirk the Average posted:Seems straightforward. I've got plenty of water because of a cool slush geyser and a salt water geyser (and being on Rime) so I've been running crazy amounts of Electrolyzers. I have so much oxygen crammed into an enclosure that I could create zero oxygen for 20 cycles and barely make a dent. I can't imagine using a CO2 vent with that poo poo coming out at 500 degrees
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Apr 5, 2022 03:16
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Dunno-Lars posted:cleaning up the map with a big sweep into either storage containers or dropped into a single spot using the item dropper set to sweep only on my latest base i set up an automatic solution for this  i have the map littered with conveyor loaders set up to collect everything on priority 1, and all those storages are priority 2 to prevent a possible storage loop. everything gets deposited on the single tile in the centre by the chutes that's well out of dupe reach, again preventing a storage loop, and the storage containers are set to hold stacks of single items so they're always available when needed, kept topped up by sweepers from the storage pile keeps the map nice and clean without having to ever sweep poo poo manually
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Apr 5, 2022 03:19
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For me, "map littered with conveyor loaders" as a means of getting a "clean base" is missing the forest for the trees a little bit, but in this game the more outlandish the solution the better. You do youj.
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Apr 5, 2022 03:36
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tbh littered is probably too strong a word, there's about 10 loaders in various floors that get high traffic, but the point is they all ship to a single pile automatically. but you can also just do a single loader if that's a dealbreaker i guess? 
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Apr 5, 2022 03:43
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Yeah, I reread your post I get how it could work with conveyor loader spam. If I were going to do something like this, I'd just put 4 auto dispensers above it, I think. More walking, but I don't think I'm in any hurry to make everything optimally clean. How is heat management with it? Can anything go catastrophically wrong if you have tons and tons 1300C igneous rock sitting in the center for an extended period of time?
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Apr 5, 2022 03:55
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Truga posted:on my latest base i set up an automatic solution for this I love it
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Apr 5, 2022 04:06
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