|
How are u posted:If you're feeling bad about lack of action I would encourage you to get involved with your state / local enviro movement and organizations and find ways to help. There's all sorts of work being done everywhere, and good people are needed. Don't get caught up in the Hopelessness Trap. I don't commute for my job, I don't heat my home as much, and I don't fly anymore, but it's not enough. I don't get why people say "you should travel!" when that makes everything worse, but that's a whole different discussion. I live in Ohio, a raging red state where outwardly trying any kind of environmental action is a good way to get your windows shot out. Out here with Real Americans, climate change is an unalloyed good, because the Hated Other will suffer. The things that make us despair gives them joy.
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2022 18:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 14:36 |
|
|
How are u posted:If you're feeling bad about lack of action I would encourage you to get involved with your state / local enviro movement and organizations and find ways to help. There's all sorts of work being done everywhere, and good people are needed. Don't get caught up in the Hopelessness Trap. This is a false dichotomy. It is possible to believe that things are (about to become) irreversibly hosed, and also work to mitigate the effects. I think the accusation that "doomerism" results in giving up is made in bad faith.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2022 18:25
|
|
|
Thorn Wishes Talon posted:This is a false dichotomy. It is possible to believe that things are (about to become) irreversibly hosed, and also work to mitigate the effects. I think the accusation that "doomerism" results in giving up is made in bad faith. The Hopelessness Trap is by definition inaction. What you're describing is not the Hopelessness Trap. I don't know of anybody I work with who thinks that things will be just fine and we'll fix it all, back to normal, no problem. Irreversible change is baked in, we all know this. It's when you let hopelessness shut you down and keep you from trying at all that you've succumbed to the Hopelessness Trap.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2022 18:29
|
|
|
TwoQuestions posted:I live in Ohio, a raging red state where outwardly trying any kind of environmental action is a good way to get your windows shot out. loving let them, then
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2022 18:34
|
|
|
The next step deniers and climate-skeptics go for after "climate change is real, bad, and happening" gets beaten into popular consciousness is "we can't stop it, nothing we do matters, it's too big a problem to solve, better do nothing at all/spend money on other things" The rhetoric of some posters where "we're all doomed, it's going to be terrible, the future is going to suck" plays right into the hands of those trying to make it so, even when trying your best to halt that action. "It's g
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2022 18:42
|
|
|
Nothingtoseehere posted:The next step deniers and climate-skeptics go for after "climate change is real, bad, and happening" gets beaten into popular consciousness is "we can't stop it, nothing we do matters, it's too big a problem to solve, better do nothing at all/spend money on other things" The rhetoric of some posters where "we're all doomed, it's going to be terrible, the future is going to suck" plays right into the hands of those trying to make it so, even when trying your best to halt that action. "It's g Love how you Ignore criticism of your posts and then try to gaslight people for stating the obvious as playing into climate deniers hands.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2022 18:49
|
|
|
TwoQuestions posted:I live in Ohio, a raging red state where outwardly trying any kind of environmental action is a good way to get your windows shot out. Out here with Real Americans, climate change is an unalloyed good, because the Hated Other will suffer. The things that make us despair gives them joy. I'm not at all plugged into the Ohio enviro community, but some cursory googling pulls up a bunch of different groups, some of which I recognize from other states, so there's definitely some people you could reach out to to plug in and find good work and community and fellowship. https://gogreengo.org/explore/?category=climate-change&sort=random Believe me, it's really good for the mind and soul to connect with other people who care and want to do something.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2022 18:52
|
|
|
It's a very difficult balance because people also shouldn't be so stupidly optimistic that they're functionally denying climate change, that itself is also bad, or wasting their time on useless initiatives that only make themselves feel better. Join Food Not Bombs.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2022 19:00
|
|
|
pictured: useless feel good initiative https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhVNoobDQtk Eddy-Baby fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Apr 6, 2022 |
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2022 19:01
|
|
|
Eddy-Baby posted:pictured: useless feel good initiative I watched a bit of this but now it's gone.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2022 19:04
|
|
|
Eddy-Baby posted:pictured: useless feel good initiative I hadn’t seen this before. What did it accomplish that was useful?
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2022 19:36
|
|
|
Like I was saying, thinking things will get better in a 100 years is way, way more broke brain than people feeling dread, or as this thread has labeled them, doomer. https://twitter.com/dpcarrington/status/1511651028525109253?s=20&t=3DtM5KgVKm2wTVQAWm34Tg
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2022 19:53
|
|
|
It's not just about feeling dread, it's about how you choose to respond to it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2022 20:27
|
|
|
How are u posted:It's not just about feeling dread, it's about how you choose to respond to it. Thanks for the pep-talk! Like, no poo poo, what you wrote is something I'd expect to read in one of those self-motivational books at airport shops. "Make the most out of your day!" "Seize control of your career!" "You have no control over how others treat you, but you have control over how you treat them!" Right next to a framed "LIVE, LOVE, LAUGH" written in pink letters. Thorn Wishes Talon fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Apr 6, 2022 |
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2022 21:01
|
|
|
You know what I always say? Live, love, laugh..happiness is a choice
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2022 21:12
|
|
|
Thorn Wishes Talon posted:Thanks for the pep-talk! Why are you this way? They could have elaborated, but the idea stems most famously from a psychotherapeutic approach developed by a Holocaust survivor based on his experience living through the camps. He saw, first hand, that some people succumbed to the situation and just died. Not from the gas, not from bullets, just didn't wake up one day. Others in the exact same situation didn't perish and lived long enough to see liberation. Victor Frankel posits the second group survived because they developed some interior sense of purpose that allowed them to be optimistic that the future had some meaning for them. In other words, they chose their response to the situation and it literally saved lives. So get the gently caress out of here with this gross cynicism, it's deadly to the human spirit, both yours and others.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2022 21:27
|
|
|
I understand wanting to roll around in the hopelessness and doom, I truly do. I was there just a few years ago. It was really bad for me and really bad for people around me. Making the concious choice to allow yourself to live with a sliver of hope is a good thing, and does good things for your life. I choose to face the future with the attitude of "well the future looks bleak, and it's an incredible uphill battle against the excesses of capitalism and human greed, but maybe we *can* win and mitigate the worst of what may come and build a better world." And, if I end up wrong, at least I tried. It is, for me, a much better way to live than how I was a few years back, wallowing in self pity and despair and severe depression.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2022 21:50
|
|
|
Leon Sumbitches posted:Why are you this way? Turning away from reality in favor of a brighter fantasy is adaptive? For real, I'm not sure how to feel about that.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2022 22:03
|
|
|
You can accept that everything is screwed and just find it interesting, I don't really internalize the intellectual sense of doom at all. I'm privileged to have a VIP seat to the great unwinding of everything, things could be worse
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2022 22:11
|
|
|
i recently wrote a simplified version of how i think climate doomerism works as a non-contradictory ideology. i offer it to the marketplace here for you to ponder at your pleasure i'm pretty sure the drama between "climate optimists" and "climate doomers" can be boiled down to a difference in the perceived severity of climate change and/or differing opinions on what could be considered effective action to face the problem personally, for example, i think a public call for climate optimism to be actually worse than saying nothing. i feel like the scale of the problem warrants and requires public hysteria and panic for a solution to present itself quote:refining my take on healthy leftist doomerism as a public facing ideology
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2022 22:43
|
|
|
have you considered that effective action might make Number sad tho??
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2022 22:58
|
|
|
Raine posted:i recently wrote a simplified version of how i think climate doomerism works as a non-contradictory ideology. i offer it to the marketplace here for you to ponder at your pleasure Hysteria is still demanding lockdowns for covid even now to prevent another death from covid, no matter how much damage is achieved with the proposed solution. Adaption is knowing there is some harm that is going to happen regardless but advocate for reasonable and achievable actions even as you also support chipping away at the halleluiah solutions. Another example. The world is going to a be a worse place for Putin's invasion of Ukraine. That is an inescapable fact. Heading off into nuclear chat that sometimes creeps up in the most hysterical circles is actually not "biting the bullet". It's not a call for climate optimism, it is a realization that life goes on, sometimes things change the world for the worse despite your own actions (Covid, Rus/Ukr war, greenpeace hate on nuclear power), but that supporting actions towards improving the fundamentals are a good thing.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2022 23:11
|
|
|
Electric Wrigglies posted:Hysteria is still demanding lockdowns for covid even now to prevent another death from covid, no matter how much damage is achieved with the proposed solution. Adaption is knowing there is some harm that is going to happen regardless but advocate for reasonable and achievable actions even as you also support chipping away at the halleluiah solutions. This analogy doesn't hold. The nukes (or catastrophic climate change) will fly, the clock is ticking, it's just stopping it will make Number sad. Failed Imagineer posted:You can accept that everything is screwed and just find it interesting, I don't really internalize the intellectual sense of doom at all. I'm privileged to have a VIP seat to the great unwinding of everything, things could be worse I envy you.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2022 23:19
|
|
|
Sir Kodiak posted:I hadn’t seen this before. What did it accomplish that was useful? Several hundred people have been blocking oil terminals in the UK since the start of the month. The strategy is to get the government to agree not to licence any more oil and gas projects by causing disruption to the fuel supply. It's based on a successful protest in 2000, where the discredited previous Labour government was brought to the negotiating table quickly by lorry drivers upset about increasing fuel taxes. What did it accomplish that was useful? It's early days still - the protests are planned to continue, and petrol stations in the region have been running dry since yesterday. The timing is appropriate, because the UK government just this evening announced its new energy policy!
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2022 23:21
|
|
|
Failed Imagineer posted:You can accept that everything is screwed and just find it interesting, I don't really internalize the intellectual sense of doom at all. I'm privileged to have a VIP seat to the great unwinding of everything, things could be worse I could not think of a more hosed up view of life than this, because the idea that you are just....okay with it, is disturbing beyond reason. Even if its not our personal faults. And the most nihilistically hosed up part? You won't get to see the great unwinding. You'll just get to watch the suffering. And you seem to be okay with that. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Apr 6, 2022 |
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2022 23:22
|
|
|
Electric Wrigglies posted:Hysteria is still demanding lockdowns for covid even now to prevent another death from covid, no matter how much damage is achieved with the proposed solution. Adaption is knowing there is some harm that is going to happen regardless but advocate for reasonable and achievable actions even as you also support chipping away at the halleluiah solutions. But if we actually wanted to stop covid, lockdowns would actually be a good thing, if they were actual lockdowns. The fact that you open your argument saying otherwise just shows a limited understanding of how bad things really will get, regardless if you recycle. It’s fine though. It’s not your fault.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2022 23:25
|
|
|
TwoQuestions posted:This analogy doesn't hold. The nukes (or catastrophic climate change) will fly, the clock is ticking, it's just stopping it will make Number sad. nah, the world will end at some point, that is a given. It's not likely to end in the next couple of generations on current fundamentals. Nuclear war is probably the highest risk right this minute and for most people, the second risk of community harm is the high cost of energy, fertilizers and food arising out of the Ukrainian conflict.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2022 23:27
|
|
|
CommieGIR posted:I could not think of a more hosed up view of life than this, because the idea that you are just....okay with it, is disturbing beyond reason. Even if its not our personal faults. Depends on how old you are. And coming to peace that things will get so much worse than the general public (or a lot of posters in this thread) act or think it will isn’t nihilistic, epically when you begin to start understanding feedback loops. You’re making a value judgment of how they perceive the world because otherwise it would (perhaps) make you look at your own choices.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2022 23:31
|
|
|
LionArcher posted:Depends on how old you are. And coming to peace that things will get so much worse than the general public (or a lot of posters in this thread) act or think it will isn’t nihilistic, epically when you begin to start understanding feedback loops. You’re making a value judgment of how they perceive the world because otherwise it would (perhaps) make you look at your own choices. No because if you are able to sit back and enjoy such a nihilistic view, I have concerns about your mental health. Its very nihilistic. Its also outright assuming everything is set. And its not. But you are apparently apt to give up already and I'd rather struggle against unsurmountable odds than give up and watch the world burn in some sort of disturbing self-satisfied nihilistic fantasy that its going to be enjoyable. One of these might make a difference. The other is Joker-ification of a struggle.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2022 23:35
|
|
|
TwoQuestions posted:Turning away from reality in favor of a brighter fantasy is adaptive? This says more about you than the theory. Nowhere did I say "brighter fantasy". I said a belief that the future held meaning, which is purposefully value neutral and absolutely doesn't say blind faith in a brighter future. Meaning can anything you want, the point is you have to figure it out and live with it. It's not incompatible with life being difficult or human suffering at all. The survivors didn't know they were going to survive, but they lived with meaning anyway.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2022 23:43
|
|
|
CommieGIR posted:No because if you are able to sit back and enjoy such a nihilistic view, I have concerns about your mental health. Its very nihilistic. Absolutely. You can come to terms with the fact you have stage 4 cancer and are probably going to die painfully and rapidly. That doesn't mean you don't do chemo or surgery because what's the use?
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2022 23:45
|
|
|
Raine posted:i recently wrote a simplified version of how i think climate doomerism works as a non-contradictory ideology. i offer it to the marketplace here for you to ponder at your pleasure Thanks, I like this a lot. People embracing hope and happiness and good vibes is great for their own mental health. Fact is, the way we live is costing the future, and to me at least it is not morally, ethically, or logistically acceptable. Bad feelings are natural, justified, and necessary at this stage, even though we have so little power.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2022 23:59
|
|
|
Leon Sumbitches posted:This says more about you than the theory. I don't care much for the Holocaust analogy because that's a situation where humans were being monsters towards each other. Climate change, in contrast, is mainly a story of humans being monsters towards the environment and its denizens, and starting to reap what it has sown. The fact of the matter is that the lives we live in the modern era are deeply at odds with the rest of nature. We have been treating this planet like dog poo poo by greedily exploiting its resources and brutally massacring and making extinct untold numbers of its species for generations. Mother Nature is finally starting to retaliate, and she's going to gently caress us up harder and harder as time goes on. And you know what? I'm not rooting for us, I'm rooting for her. Humanity's collective hubris truly disgusts me, and I hope our childish stubbornness and dragging-of-feet in the face of ever-worsening calamities ultimately proves to be our undoing as a species. I don't wish for natural disasters, and feel terrible for the suffering they cause, but that pales in comparison to the anger I feel towards the choices we have made and continue to make, such as — to give a small but recent example — Biden tapping into the strategic oil reserve just so Americans can continue to consume, consume, consume. In the meantime I will work on adaptation and mitigation measures that are not at direct odds with the environment. Things like disaster preparedness, for instance, have a huge impact on community resilience, and save lives. Similarly, educating the hell out of kids on how to not grow up to be selfish pricks like their parents is a great investment. My goal is to make the most impact I can at the scale I can, while making GBS threads on anyone who spreads toxic optimism (which is what actually encourages inaction). There. That's the "meaning" the future holds for me. Your mileage may vary.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2022 01:09
|
|
|
I'm trying to figure out how to square the circle between this statementSlow News Day posted:And you know what? I'm not rooting for us, I'm rooting for her. Humanity's collective hubris truly disgusts me, and I hope our childish stubbornness and dragging-of-feet in the face of ever-worsening calamities ultimately proves to be our undoing as a species. And this one quote:I don't wish for natural disasters, and feel terrible for the suffering they cause, Emphasis mine. Why do you feel terrible for the suffering natural disasters cause if you at the same time hope, not just feel, but hope that humanity goes extinct and, correct me if I'm misinterpreting, deserves to be? This seems to indicate to me that you find something redeeming about humanity, after all. Also, if you hope humanity goes extinct, then why bother attempting to mitigate anything about climate change at all? Wouldn't it be in line with your stated hope to accelerate humanity's demise?
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2022 01:40
|
|
|
There's nothing particularly unusual about viewing humanity en masse as irredeemable while still feeling compassion for individual humans.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2022 02:03
|
|
|
No but there certainly is wanting it to occur.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2022 03:12
|
|
|
Nothingtoseehere posted:No, that seems about right. Current human GHG emissions are around 42 Gt CO2, which given emission growth is not out of line with 36 Gt CO2 in 2016. The earth did sustain a 280 ppm CO2 level before industrial activity after all, despite many active sinks - those CO2 emissions came from somewhere. The scale of human emissions needed to outweigh natural ones is why we didn't start seeing climate change signals till the 1950s despite the industrial revolution starting in the 1850s, and up until the 1980s it was counterbalanced by a strong aerosol signal from all the air pollution. The other article you link is 2007, and human emissions have been growing since 2007 fairly consistently. Humans going from 36 to 42 is fine, but what is the size of the natural emissions, from land and sea? It should be about 700 Gt, right? The recent article is saying it's between 54 and 75 Gt. Which seems out by a factor of 10. I understand there are annual fluctuations, but that can't be it. What am I missing here? 
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2022 04:47
|
|
|
Look on the positive side, either way this goes, a number will go up.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2022 06:51
|
|
|
Irony.or.Death posted:There's nothing particularly unusual about viewing humanity en masse as irredeemable while still feeling compassion for individual humans. Isn't this just re-inventing the doctrine of Original Sin?
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2022 19:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 14:36 |
|
|
christmas boots posted:Isn't this just re-inventing the doctrine of Original Sin? Christ, through his sacrifice, opened the way for humanity to be redeemed from our original sin. The OP who hopes that humanity extincts itself because of its excesses and sins does not seem to leave any room for salvation.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2022 19:49
|
|