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Aramoro posted:Is the issue here not that they are just mashing together a whole bunch of Jewish imagery to make the game feel extra Jewish. So you’re gaining menorahs and stars of David to help you control your Golem and hopefully end up with the most stars of David at the end as they seem to be points. But there’s no sense as to why you’re summoning a Golem in the first place. This isn’t an abstract game, you’re explicitly summoning the Golem of Prague who was summoned to protect the Jewish people of the city from being killed. That’s been turned into a jolly fun time of powering up your golem, whoopsy daisy it got too powerful and killed everyone. They could have used the real story of the Golem of Prague as set dressing and still been OK, if they wanted to. Instead they mention Rabbi Loew, they mention Prague 1584, they mention the golem, but then instead of the pogroms they go on to talk about Loew melting down gold objects and possessing books of "traditional knowledge". So it's even worse than you're making out - it's pretty much openly implied that Loew crafted the golem to go out and "obtain" gold which is then fenced off to fund his Qabalah-reading. You know, exactly the narrative used to justify the historical pogroms. This is beyond tone deaf; it's full on anti-Semitic.
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Apr 7, 2022 18:56
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Jedit posted:They could have used the real story of the Golem of Prague as set dressing and still been OK, if they wanted to. Instead they mention Rabbi Loew, they mention Prague 1584, they mention the golem, but then instead of the pogroms they go on to talk about Loew melting down gold objects and possessing books of "traditional knowledge". So it's even worse than you're making out - it's pretty much openly implied that Loew crafted the golem to go out and "obtain" gold which is then fenced off to fund his Qabalah-reading. You know, exactly the narrative used to justify the historical pogroms. This is beyond tone deaf; it's full on anti-Semitic. It would be very strange for a Jewish historian to agree to work on an anti semitic game? I'm sorry but I don't understand this.
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Apr 7, 2022 18:58
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Jedit posted:They could have used the real story of the Golem of Prague as set dressing and still been OK, if they wanted to. Instead they mention Rabbi Loew, they mention Prague 1584, they mention the golem, but then instead of the pogroms they go on to talk about Loew melting down gold objects and possessing books of "traditional knowledge". So it's even worse than you're making out - it's pretty much openly implied that Loew crafted the golem to go out and "obtain" gold which is then fenced off to fund his Qabalah-reading. You know, exactly the narrative used to justify the historical pogroms. This is beyond tone deaf; it's full on anti-Semitic. I rescind my earlier comment, I wasn’t aware of any of this. Thanks for the educational point.
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Apr 7, 2022 18:58
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Gettin a lot of movie golem vibes from all this tbqh
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Apr 7, 2022 19:14
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I'm guessing that if I had the choice of playing 2nd or 3rd edition Arkham Horror, that 3rd is the objectively better choice correct? That is if I can actually procure either of them by this weekend.
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Apr 7, 2022 19:19
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Mayveena posted:It would be very strange for a Jewish historian to agree to work on an anti semitic game? I'm sorry but I don't understand this. At what stage was he involved? If he only helped them out with the research, he probably wasn't involved in creating the finished product or providing copy.
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Apr 7, 2022 19:33
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Reading the rules right now and he "supervised all the decisions regarding icons, names, and setting and give his blessing to this project." Also the rules bluntly state that the gold is melted down to make magic artifacts which might be anti-semitic (the gold->holy object connection feels more like catholic influence), but its uh, not what you described at all.
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Apr 7, 2022 19:45
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Control Volume posted:Reading the rules right now and he "supervised all the decisions regarding icons, names, and setting and give his blessing to this project." Also the rules bluntly state that the gold is melted down to make magic artifacts which might be anti-semitic (the gold->holy object connection feels more like catholic influence), but its uh, not what you described at all. This.
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Apr 7, 2022 20:10
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Jedit posted:At what stage was he involved? If he only helped them out with the research, he probably wasn't involved in creating the finished product or providing copy. He still would not agree to be associated with an anti semitic game. That’s just not happening.
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Apr 7, 2022 20:11
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FirstAidKite posted:Unfortunately I have not had a chance to play it yet. I got a bonus "prequel" pack for backing it that included 2 additional puzzles and I am on the second of those 2 right now, but I haven't gotten into the box itself which would contain far more indepth puzzles. The stuff in the bonus prologue are just a postcard puzzle and a sheet of paper with some diagrams I'm supposed to decipher. I don't like playing through this stuff on my own so I have to wait until my fiancee feels up for it. She loves these things and that kind of game are the only kinds I can regularly get to the table but she has ADHD so I have to catch her at a good time where she's feeling up to tackling a puzzle game mystery box thing. Oh no, don't worry, it was my fault not paying attention to what I was clicking, and it's not a financial burden to have accidentally ordered it. I was just hoping to hear some positive first impressions, since there's not a lot of info online. I have a few friends that I'm working through Sherlock Holmes: consulting detective cases with, and that I've done escape rooms with before, so if this box is well done, I'm sure we'll enjoy it. I've never played an escape room game though, maybe I'll pick up one to try and get a feel for how the IRL experience translates to a box before we dive into the fancy one. Do people prefer exit or unlock? Also I'm sorry for interrupting serious conversation about cultural representation, I've been reading along in between my dumb posts.
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Apr 7, 2022 20:36
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Viper915 posted:Oh no, don't worry, it was my fault not paying attention to what I was clicking, and it's not a financial burden to have accidentally ordered it. I was just hoping to hear some positive first impressions, since there's not a lot of info online. I have a few friends that I'm working through Sherlock Holmes: consulting detective cases with, and that I've done escape rooms with before, so if this box is well done, I'm sure we'll enjoy it. I've never played an escape room game though, maybe I'll pick up one to try and get a feel for how the IRL experience translates to a box before we dive into the fancy one. Do people prefer exit or unlock? Exit games are like 10bux on sale and worth a few hours. I've played through all of them
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Apr 7, 2022 20:42
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It was fine it was appropriate and I'm totally the idiot, I'm 64 years old, you can't expect everything!!! 
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Apr 7, 2022 20:42
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PRADA SLUT posted:Exit games are like 10bux on sale and worth a few hours. I've played through all of them Yeah they're great and I've only ever had one dud. Every other time has been really fun and well worth the ~$15 CAD they cost up here. Someone I know is doing a monthly one that is mailed to her and her boyfriend every month as like a legacy escape/exit game. They love it and the pictures I've seen look like they really play around with your expectations with regard to physical components.
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Apr 7, 2022 20:48
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Mayveena posted:He still would not agree to be associated with an anti semitic game. That’s just not happening. But I also find it entirely believable that he's not interacting with the design on a frequent basis, and that the game could have drifted and morphed in a short time til it would no longer get his seal of approval. I volunteered to chaperone a mural my kids school had the youngsters working on, and it started out just fine, but it only took turning my back for a moment to appear a man in a poncho with gigantic mustache and a 'chippy hat' (sombrero with queso in the middle and chips surrounding it you can dip), shooting a bleeding pinata. poo poo can get offensive real fast with only a modicum of lack of thought. (Same group of kids explained to me about how America defeated Vietnam and built a wall to keep them out with the names of everyone they killed written on it, but then it got torn down). Basically, I assume everyone is a little ignorant and incompetent and lazy, and I get a lot less angry at people, just correct them and move forward knowing full well they're going to gently caress up again shortly.
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Apr 7, 2022 20:55
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Mayveena posted:This. You're seem to be putting a lot of store in having a single person sign off on it, it was the Rabbinate of Milan but no note if it was an actual Rabbi or not. That's the things about religion though, people disagree about it. Even if the Chief Rabbi of Milan himself signed off on it that doesn't mean other Jewish people cannot have problems with it, as shown in that BGG thread. It's using a traditional Jewish story about persecution and the very real threat of death as set dressing for a boardgame and just ignoring all that stuff. It's Rabbi Loew making Golems for no reason. It's fairly easy to see why people would find that offensive.
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Apr 7, 2022 21:08
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Aramoro posted:You're seem to be putting a lot of store in having a single person sign off on it, it was the Rabbinate of Milan but no note if it was an actual Rabbi or not. That's the things about religion though, people disagree about it. Even if the Chief Rabbi of Milan himself signed off on it that doesn't mean other Jewish people cannot have problems with it, as shown in that BGG thread. Here is (an image sorry that's the only way I could think to show it) what is said about the Rabbi  So if he supervised the game and gave it his blessing, I'm not agreeing that the game could be considered anti semitic. I'm not saying folks won't feel it's anti semitic but I'm not buying that a Rabbi that supervised this game would give his blessing to a game that is anti semitic.
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Apr 7, 2022 21:41
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Slyphic posted:Perhaps he's the Rabbinical equivalent of a homeopath or a Pentecostal mega-church preacher? You got a source or basis for this?
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Apr 7, 2022 21:46
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Mayveena posted:So if he supervised the game and gave it his blessing, I'm not agreeing that the game could be considered anti semitic. I'm not saying folks won't feel it's anti semitic but I'm not buying that a Rabbi that supervised this game would give his blessing to a game that is anti semitic. There are countless instances of religious figures endorsing all sorts of dreadful things that are the antithesis of their religious beliefs. I'm not saying that this particular Rabbi isn't being sincere, mind you, just that I don't feel that's a great argument. Anyway, I have more games arriving tomorrow! Finally getting Wolfenstein from the Kickstarter I backed two years ago. Co op stealth dungeon crawler with tonnes of minis. Also ordered Detective Season One; a friend and I have been playing through Detective Modern Crime and I've really enjoyed it. Virtually zero replayability but a genuinely engaging mystery.
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Apr 7, 2022 21:56
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Mayveena posted:Here is (an image sorry that's the only way I could think to show it) what is said about the Rabbi David Piazza is not a Rabbi, he’s an art director. I’m not saying the game is antisemitic. What I am saying is they picked a theme that always had the potential to upset people quite legitimately. They’ve glossed over the actual story they reference in favour of keeping it light and breezy. Now it could be like you say great for people to see more representation for Jewish people in games. Except in this game they create a Golem that rampages out of control for no apparent reason.
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Apr 7, 2022 22:06
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Viper915 posted:Do people prefer exit or unlock? They are both good in different ways but the 2 things to know about them are this. 1. Exit is, by design, something you play once and then never again because you will have marked, cut, or otherwise destroyed pieces in the process of solving the puzzles. Unlock, however, does not make you destroy any components so you can give the game to someone else later or sell it off. We've played several Exit games without destroying components but it involved making liberal use of a scanner printer in order to create copies to destroy instead or digitally marking scans in image editors. 2. While both Exit and Unlock are mystery/puzzle/escape boxes, the way the puzzles are integrated are different. The best way to explain it is that Unlock's puzzles make sense if you were playing from the perspective of actually being in whatever situation Unlock has put you in. Exit's puzzles largely make sense from the point of view of the player at the table, not the character in the puzzle situation itself. To give an example using a puzzle I've just made up, let's say you've got the classic puzzle of a door locked from the other side, key is still in the keyhole, and the space under the door is big enough to retrieve the key through if you can somehow get the key out of the hole from your side. This is how each game would probably tackle that puzzle. Unlock would likely have you solving puzzles until you gain an inventory item that could be used to push the key out through the keyhole and another item to catch it once it falls. You would use those 2 cards and check if they're the solution. If they are then you'd lose the item cards and be given the key card which you can now use with the door to unlock it and reveal a new room to explore. Exit would probably have some text in the locked door's description that mentions how you could always try the old push the key onto folded paper trick, but that you would need to find some folded papers similar to a newspaper or a book. At that point you might realize that they're hinting at you to open up the game's instruction manual to find that one of the pictures in it shows the door in question already unlocked. The page in question also shows a picture of a pin even though you don't have one and the game doesn't come with one. The code wheel on this instruction manual page can be taken and applied to the door's puzzle icon. After entering the code, you successfully unlock the door and reveal a new room to explore. Basically while Unlock is more like "combine the yellow gem with the tiger statue to obtain the MO Disk," Exit is more like "Meryl's codec number is on the back of the game's case and to defeat Psycho Mantis you'll need to plug your controller into port 2 so he can't read your mind."
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Apr 7, 2022 22:11
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The Kosmos Adventure Games are also fun and similar in genre to the Unlock games. They play more like a point and click adventure, where you have to combine items with other items or characters or locations etc. to solve puzzles.
Quote-Unquote fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Apr 7, 2022 |
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Apr 7, 2022 22:16
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Control Volume posted:You got a source or basis for this? I've stumbled across plenty of quacks and charlatans with titles would make you think otherwise. And to see the quote now, I think it's most likely that David approved individual pieces without necessarily blessing the whole of it.
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Apr 7, 2022 22:28
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Aramoro posted:You're seem to be putting a lot of store in having a single person sign off on it, it was the Rabbinate of Milan but no note if it was an actual Rabbi or not. Quote-Unquote posted:I'm not saying that this particular Rabbi isn't being sincere, mind you, just that I don't feel that's a great argument. Aramoro posted:David Piazza is not a Rabbi, he’s an art director. Slyphic posted:And to see the quote now, I think it's most likely that David approved individual pieces without necessarily blessing the whole of it. Well I suppose in the contest of a single minority voice vs. not having to think too hard about the issue, its prudent to focus on the bigger picture.
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Apr 7, 2022 23:05
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FirstAidKite posted:They are both good in different ways but the 2 things to know about them are this. Also, the mechanic of “fun”, which only got implemented in Exit.
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Apr 7, 2022 23:10
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Unlock found their rhythm. They are good nowadays.
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Apr 7, 2022 23:19
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djfooboo posted:Unlock found their rhythm. They are good nowadays. Hm.. I played the Sherlock/Alice/Chiptunes one and it was decent, but I didn't have quite that excitement as Exit. Something about "scan the cards and put two sides of the rear end together" was less.. tactile. Speaking of which For the low low price of 10bux you too can try one of the Exit games: Cabin (probably the best "intro" box): https://www.amazon.com/Exit-Kennerspiel-Family-Friendly-Card-Based-Experience/dp/B06WP2G52Z Cemetery (really good except one dumbass puzzle): https://www.amazon.com/EXIT-Cemetery-Friendly-Card-Based-Experience/dp/B0862HM913 Tomb (I remember this being good? It's been awhile): https://www.amazon.com/Exit-Kennerspiel-Family-Friendly-Card-Based-Experience/dp/B01NAXV1G7/ There's like 5-6 more on Amazon right now for that price Murder on the Orient Express is a combination of Exit+mystery but it's 15bux atm. Note that any of the "2 difficulty" ones are like linear puzzle books, where you solve one puzzle "per page", and the "3+ difficulty" are more open-ended. You could have multiple puzzles at once and you don't know which you should solve first or have all the pieces.
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Apr 7, 2022 23:39
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Aramoro posted:David Piazza is not a Rabbi, he’s an art director. I agree the theming is legitimately controversial. Which is why I presented it here because I wanted to hear from you folks who have shown to be (mostly?? Some of you like some weird rear end games😀) rational.
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Apr 7, 2022 23:43
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I mean the theme for Whitehall/Whitechapel is literally play as Jack the Ripper and hide the body parts of prostitutes while running from the police Controversial topic for sure. Still an amazing game.
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Apr 8, 2022 00:10
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Also, in Pipeline you play as Ronald Regan
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Apr 8, 2022 00:28
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I played a game of Auztraila last weekend. I think that falls into the catagory of controversial games.
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Apr 8, 2022 03:01
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In monopoly you're a landlord
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Apr 8, 2022 03:10
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Rusty Kettle posted:I played a game of Auztraila last weekend. I think that falls into the catagory of controversial games. How's that? Representation?
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Apr 8, 2022 03:32
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Rusty Kettle posted:I played a game of Auztraila last weekend. I think that falls into the catagory of controversial games. Oh lord I hated my one play of that game.
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Apr 8, 2022 04:06
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FirstAidKite posted:In monopoly you're a landlord And there are variations that are blatantly awful/sexist/ageist like Ms. Monopoly and Monopoly for Millennials. It’s truly the worst franchise.
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Apr 8, 2022 04:36
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Speaking of Monopoly (But actually good} Watched NRBs playthrough of Lords of Vegas, and it's def a game I would feel comfortable with on my shelf. Not sure if I've got space for it alongside Chinatown, but being able to steal ownership of Casino's via dice rolls is such an evil fun mechanic
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Apr 8, 2022 04:46
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My copy of Coffee Traders arrived and I got to play a 3p game last night. Really enjoyed it, but the comments critiquing the rule book sure weren't kidding. Even with the revised rules released a few days ago there were some parts that are shockingly poorly explained but we got through with only one or two minor mistakes that wouldn't have significantly influenced things. I really enjoyed it - I love how interconnected everything is, and how interlinked all the player actions are (in certain phases you get to copy other players actions, but at the expense of fairly limited resources). It was also one of those games where I felt after playing it like I had a pretty solid grasp of the rules and what my options are but very little sense of what strategy would be effective which I always like as it usually means the game has a good amount of longevity for me as I work out how to actually play it well. I also suspect we were playing quite poorly - in our game we never ended up needing warehouses (which you use to store coffee from one round to the next) as we pretty much always used all the coffee we had to fulfil contracts and supply coffee houses. Given that the warehouses are in the game though I'm assuming there is strategy in keeping coffee between rounds, though I can't immediately see what that would be.
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Apr 8, 2022 04:54
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Infinitum posted:How's that? Representation? You can hate on Auztralia if you look at its premise as the players being colonial British powers and the Great Old Ones being representative of the indigenous peoples of Australia. There's a little bit of yikes there. That said, the game does its best to distance itself from that interpretation and doesn't really PLAY like you're subjugating the natives as opposed to fighting off nasty tentacled nonsense while building rail and sheep farms. But I can see where folks could be sensitive about that.
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Apr 8, 2022 04:58
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Yeah Coffee Traders was a top 5 game for me last year and I really look forward to my next play. Peruse the rules forum on BGG if you have further questions.
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Apr 8, 2022 05:33
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dumgeon universalis has a revised english edition up for sale on their website. i’ve wanted to get my hands on a copy for a while now but shipping from madrid is going to almost double the price to $300 and i just backed league of dungeoneers and sorcery tcg. but the game seems wild and i want it. anyone here play it before and have any opinions?
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Apr 8, 2022 06:12
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Viper915 posted:Do people prefer exit or unlock? I prefer Exit to Unlock by a little bit. Exit can feel more abstract, but it also has a higher number of fun puzzles per session. Escape room: the Game was worse than these 2.
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Apr 8, 2022 08:19
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