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Grand Fromage posted:I got a Q for the linguistics nerds: was there a point (if it's knowable at all) where the standardized, written Latin was indecipherable to someone who spoke vulgate Latin? /Vulgate/ Latin would the language of the Catholic Latin Bible...
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Apr 6, 2022 14:25
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Like and share this post if you agree church latin > classical latin.
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Apr 6, 2022 14:26
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Like and share this post if you agree church latin > classical latin.
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Apr 6, 2022 14:53
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Like and share this post if you agree church latin > classical latin. For one it doesn't sound totally fake
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Apr 6, 2022 15:50
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Church latin seems like it'd be a legitimate language when it would be a common language across the Catholic Church's reach after the collapse of the western Roman Empire. At the very least, the Pope could communicate with members across Europe in a common language.
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Apr 6, 2022 16:11
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Grand Fromage posted:I got a Q for the linguistics nerds: was there a point (if it's knowable at all) where the standardized, written Latin was indecipherable to someone who spoke vulgate Latin? I don't mean later on once the dialects had evolved into Spanish or whatever, but during the Latin speaking period. Comparable to Classical Chinese, which was still the main written form of Chinese into like the 1800s but a completely distinct language that a regular Chinese speaker can't parse. By the Carolingian Renaissance, people are writing Latin but reading it as "Romance language of choice", which causes English-trained monks (reading Latin as, well, Latin) to not be able to understand French-trained monks (reading Latin as French), etc. So by 813 or so. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolingian_Renaissance#Reform_of_Latin_pronunciation (overlaps with some of the earlier commentary but isn't 100% the same).
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Apr 6, 2022 16:27
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Rust Martialis posted:April 1 eh? I was hoping somebody would fall for it even with the date visible.
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Apr 6, 2022 16:29
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Grevling posted:I was hoping somebody would fall for it even with the date visible. It looked a bit pristine for supposedly being 3500 years old before I even got to the tect.
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Apr 6, 2022 16:34
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Like and share this post if you agree church latin > classical latin. I think the best Latin is English law Latin.
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Apr 6, 2022 16:37
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ulmont posted:By the Carolingian Renaissance, people are writing Latin but reading it as "Romance language of choice", which causes English-trained monks (reading Latin as, well, Latin) to not be able to understand French-trained monks (reading Latin as French), etc. So by 813 or so. Yeah all the answers sound pretty much like what I thought was going on.
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Apr 6, 2022 18:05
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ulmont posted:By the Carolingian Renaissance, people are writing Latin but reading it as "Romance language of choice", which causes English-trained monks (reading Latin as, well, Latin) to not be able to understand French-trained monks (reading Latin as French), etc. So by 813 or so. Mind you a few centuries later Latin is the common language of instruction for people across Europe who come to mediaeval universities (Paris, Oxford etc). So, clearly enough to understand a lecture even if you might have to adapt to different pronunciations, grammar, etc, at least if you're educated enough to be going to university in the first place. (Oxford's graduation ceremony is still in Latin, including swearing an oath to a mediaeval corporation, 'do fidem'. The University Statutes were still in Latin until I dunno the 1960s or something I think).
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Apr 6, 2022 18:16
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There's an anecdote about (blind polyglot poet propagandist) John Milton getting pissed off at his amenuenses' Latin pronunciation: he insisted on having Latin read to him in an Italian accent, though my memory is hazy if anyone specifies what this was opposed to, whether English, French, or some vaguely defined Church Latin or international Neoclassical Latin accents.
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Apr 6, 2022 18:43
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Just had a flashback to the deciphering of Maya writing being set back literal centuries because Diego De Landa (the jackass who burned a lot of Maya texts as idolatrous nonsense but also tried to preserve the language) got a Maya scribe and his first instinct was telling him "write the mayan letter for A, now B, now C", etc. Scholars thought for ages that the scribe wrote gibberish, but it turned out that he was writing the names of the letters phonetically, so he was told "write Q" and he wrote the mayan glyph for KU, or particles or place names that were the closest to the sounds De Landa was throwing at him. The guy who finally figured that out looked like this
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Apr 7, 2022 03:29
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Grevling posted:I was hoping somebody would fall for it even with the date visible. I wanted to believe! (I shamefully shared it with a friend).
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Apr 7, 2022 07:12
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Pre-gunpowder, would you rather wear chain mail armor or lamellar armor and why? I remember the Romans switching between them, but I don’t remember what the relative advantages and disadvantages were. (I’m in Norway right now and one of the museums had several lamellar armors on display as Viking armor, and I recall them sometimes wearing chain mail as well.)
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Apr 7, 2022 08:15
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feedmegin posted:Mind you a few centuries later Latin is the common language of instruction for people across Europe who come to mediaeval universities (Paris, Oxford etc). So, clearly enough to understand a lecture even if you might have to adapt to different pronunciations, grammar, etc, at least if you're educated enough to be going to university in the first place. Wouldn't be surprised if it went back and forth over the centuries. Both as social and technological advances are made and there's more communication across Europe, and some people start to realise church Latin isn't working as well as a common language anymore and maybe make efforts to standardise it enough to function as a common language again. Of course that kinda thing was and in some ways still is pretty common, like iirc up to like the 19th century, French was the international language of diplomacy and German that of science. Also apparently Sanskrit has a history in India similar to that of Latin in Europe.
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Apr 7, 2022 08:34
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Any cool Roman sites in Bologna? I'll be there for one (1) day near the end of this month and I've bookmarked the various churches, the museums, and the towers and I doubt I'll be able to fit it all into one day but is there anything cool ancient I can check out there. I'll be without a car and my hotel is in the city center so anything outside the city proper probably wouldn't be accessible. It's a Longshot asking but last time I was in Italy I randomly stumbled upon some ruins, a crypt and remains of a Roman cistern if I remember correctly, in the middle of Milan so who knows. I'll also be in Reggio Emilia for a couple of days but I'll be working till at least 17 those days so anything that has opening hours is out of the question. FreudianSlippers fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Apr 7, 2022 |
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Apr 7, 2022 19:53
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FreudianSlippers posted:Any cool Roman sites in Bologna? Santo Stefano has some parts that date from late antiquity, including a partially-excavated floor mosaic dating to the 4th century. I know you already kinda said you can't but if you had any way to catch a train to and from Ravenna (about 75 minutes each way from Bologna) you wouldn't be disappointed.
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Apr 7, 2022 20:41
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The former jewish ghetto in Reggio Emilia is really pretty and you can just walk around it. Unfortunately there isn't a museum afaik, but fortunately also as you can just grab some mobile dinner and walk around at your leisure. It's half history half just enjoying a beautiful city. https://turismo.comune.re.it/en/reggio-emilia/discover-the-area/routes-and-tours/history-and-culture-routes/jewish-reggio e: and not ancient but I love Reggio Emilia it's really pretty Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Apr 7, 2022 |
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Apr 7, 2022 23:07
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LLSix posted:Pre-gunpowder, would you rather wear chain mail armor or lamellar armor and why? I remember the Romans switching between them, but I don’t remember what the relative advantages and disadvantages were. (I’m in Norway right now and one of the museums had several lamellar armors on display as Viking armor, and I recall them sometimes wearing chain mail as well.) Phone posting while doing some other things so sorry if this is disjointed. Just to be clear, by lamellar do you mean the the type worn by mongols and samurai, made out of things that are not metal, or are you referring to something more akin to a coat of plates, aka small metal plates riveted to leather or textile? You mentioned Rome, but Rome only really shifted between chain, plate, and more rarely scale armor. For chain vs lamellar, the issue is the availability of metal. The Japanese knew what chain was, as the Chinese had used it for centuries, though normally just for officers/nobles. But they did not use it much, preferring lamellar armor, and using the metal for weapons. As to performance on the battlefield, the issue with lamellar armor is it is less resistant compared to metal, especially when you consider something like a spear thrust. chain is also weaker against powerful thrusts as well, but in general it is harder to burst mail links than it is for a thrust to get in between the lamellar plates. Scale armor has a similar issue, though primarily the concern is an upward thrust getting under the plate an then into the wearer. In general as metullurgy improved, the trend was for more more plate to be used, as it offered more consistent protection. For instance you see Ottoman armors with combined plates and chain, brigandines become popular, and then full plate harness. Chain is also less bulky and it's easier to wear under/over other clothing and padding than many other armors. Chain + a thick gambeson as worn by knights of the early crusades was extremely good, and there are Arabic sources of crusaders with multiple arrows sticking out of them that got through the mail and lodged in the padding, not harming the wearer.
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Apr 7, 2022 23:42
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LLSix posted:Pre-gunpowder, would you rather wear chain mail armor or lamellar armor and why? I remember the Romans switching between them, but I don’t remember what the relative advantages and disadvantages were. (I’m in Norway right now and one of the museums had several lamellar armors on display as Viking armor, and I recall them sometimes wearing chain mail as well.) Mail is better, but it is expensive. You'd wear that if you could get it.
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Apr 8, 2022 07:47
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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WoodrowSkillson posted:For chain vs lamellar, the issue is the availability of metal. The Japanese knew what chain was, as the Chinese had used it for centuries, though normally just for officers/nobles. But they did not use it much, preferring lamellar armor, and using the metal for weapons. Gonna nitpick here a bit. The Japanese used chainmail extensively, but not to cover the whole body. Instead, they (generally) used lamellar armor to cover big areas and chainmail to cover areas that flexed, like the inside of joints or the back of gloves/gauntlets. 
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Apr 8, 2022 15:17
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Is there a little door?
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Apr 8, 2022 15:34
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yea the Japanese used chain mail (it's called kusari) for a really long time. They had it at the time of the Mongol invasions, at least. It doesn't seem like they used it much because it's not really depicted in art or talked about the way the traditional armor is, but they wore it under their clothes a lot. Edo era police officers wore it under their clothes too, kind of like how a modern cop might wear a bullet proof vest.
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Apr 8, 2022 15:34
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I've had this niche meme stuck in my head for a few days and who the gently caress gets any work done on a Friday afternoon? 
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Apr 8, 2022 15:47
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Brawnfire posted:Is there a little door? It's to make an emergency suicide easier in case your liege falls drunkenly off a horse during the middle of the battle. I hope I'm joking Edit: After some light googling people seem to think it's the equivalent of a pocket but for armors, they are apparently not always located dead center. Zudgemud fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Apr 8, 2022 |
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Apr 8, 2022 15:58
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Whorelord posted:I've had this niche meme stuck in my head for a few days and who the gently caress gets any work done on a Friday afternoon? I learned who this guy was from this meme and also find it very funny!
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Apr 8, 2022 16:03
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quote:Everything that is known about Lucian's life comes from his own writings,[1] which are often difficult to interpret because of his extensive use of sarcasm. I love him already.
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Apr 8, 2022 16:20
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One of the oldest army jokes is probably that everyone goes to the toilet the same way on the battlefield, and hopefully getting clean should be the least of your worries.
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Apr 8, 2022 17:34
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I think the reason why anime ninjas wear fishnet is because old-timey art of chainmail looks kind of like fishnet
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Apr 8, 2022 17:36
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That and everyone loves sexy ninjas, but I can see where you're coming from. Most pop culture ninja stuff comes from occasionally deliberate cartoonish misunderstandings.
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Apr 8, 2022 18:09
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https://mobile.twitter.com/BenHugh26422354/status/1183021067763359745
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Apr 8, 2022 19:08
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The black ninja outfits aren't necessarily based on what shinobi would have worn in real life, but instead an artistic convention showing that an individual is unseen: those all black outfits are what stage hands and bunraku puppeteers wear when on stage.
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Apr 8, 2022 19:10
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Zudgemud posted:It's to make an emergency suicide easier in case your liege falls drunkenly off a horse during the middle of the battle. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiNCWYCzb18
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Apr 8, 2022 19:14
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FishFood posted:The black ninja outfits aren't necessarily based on what shinobi would have worn in real life, but instead an artistic convention showing that an individual is unseen: those all black outfits are what stage hands and bunraku puppeteers wear when on stage. Next you'll be telling me they weren't turtles.
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Apr 8, 2022 19:38
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FishFood posted:The black ninja outfits aren't necessarily based on what shinobi would have worn in real life, but instead an artistic convention showing that an individual is unseen: those all black outfits are what stage hands and bunraku puppeteers wear when on stage. This comes from a play, where the playwright dressed actors playing ninjas in stagehand clothes. The audience was just enjoying the play, not paying any attention to the stagehands, when all of a sudden, ninja attack! And the audience was shocked.
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Apr 8, 2022 19:54
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Like and share this post if you agree church latin > classical latin. this is the most disgusting thing i've seen on these forums
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Apr 8, 2022 21:46
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Epicurius posted:This comes from a play, where the playwright dressed actors playing ninjas in stagehand clothes. The audience was just enjoying the play, not paying any attention to the stagehands, when all of a sudden, ninja attack! And the audience was shocked. The Japanese theatre tradition (at least for bunraku and kabuki) has a wonderful mix of deep tradition and iconoclastic craziness.
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Apr 9, 2022 05:06
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H-hey! You can't do that! That's like the book ending with "the editor did the murders!" Booo!!!
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Apr 9, 2022 05:14
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Elissimpark posted:The Japanese theatre tradition (at least for bunraku and kabuki) has a wonderful mix of deep tradition and iconoclastic craziness. A lot of the most formulaic entertainment has room for messin' with the set dressin'. It's like when video games have the UI turn on you. Done well, it's a hell of an effect.
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Apr 9, 2022 16:01
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