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Jerusalem posted:Holy poo poo what an episode.... and now we have to wait for season 2 can i just say that i'm a total chrono-cheat with media unless I be a really good boy, and this was an episode that still gets a good chin hit. Sometimes when reading books, and I get worried about a character, I'll stick my thumb in my page and go look ahead in future chapters or even the ending just to make sure the character's name is still around to know they're alive. This can however backfire, sometimes a character is mentioned quite a lot in the end, but not because they are still alive or succeeded in whatever tension I was trying to cheat. In this episode, I couldn't weather the tension of knowing if at any second Dylan would stop, like, we getting 2 minutes of OTP or the full episode? And even with skipping ahead nearish the end just to see if they are still on OTP, it didn't actually diminish my tension at all lol, if anything, when it naturally got to the part I peeked at, I was more tense than if I'd never looked at all. Really well-crafted episode, i really had to pee before i realized ep was out, and i kept meaning to pause to go pee but never was a scene where i was like okay i can pause and jump back in. naw, whole thing speeding off like ms cobel on a tear
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Apr 8, 2022 16:50
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That was my expectation too. The door would open and it would be Burt’s wife.
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Apr 8, 2022 16:52
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I don't agree at all that the innies bungled what they were doing. Mark S. played it overly safe, but I would think he has to. His first experience on the outside is being hugged by Cobel. If she is there, he has no idea if there will be absolutely anyone there he can trust. For all he knows, everyone at that party could be severance fanatics who would find no sympathy for him at all. He has to feel things out and figure out that one of the women there is his sister and that she is trustworthy, and that takes time. Helly R. wakes up at a Lumon event to show that severance is good, actually, and she has no idea who she can trust there, and there really isn't. Everyone she interacts with is pro-severance and won't give a poo poo about her plight, and will in fact call down to get Dylan shut down when they find out she's the innie. She had to wait until she was supposed to speak in front of everyone in order to get the other people at that party to listen to her. One reporter getting a frantic story from a crazed Helene Eagan about how she's the innie and she's being tortured is some wacko trying to get a smear story. Everyone there hearing the story about how she's being tortured is news. And there was really nothing else for Irving to do. He woke up in a house alone with a dog. What should he have done, run out into the street and tell a random person? That won't accomplish anything. What he did was learn that his outie is also trying to figure out what's going on, and he has gleaned some of the information that outie Irving has figured out. Though I do wonder what this means for the next season. Realistically, Helena has zero reason to ever go back down to the severed floor. She's an Eagan and doesn't need to work, and it seems like the experiment is over. Letting Helly R. continue to exist only serves to further corrupt the other severed workers. Assuming outie Mark plays it cool, he could possibly go back, assuming Lumon doesn't look into anyone who was at the party and ask if Mark did anything weird and someone says he ran in saying his dead wife was a alive. Dylan and Iriving could still work there, assuming that Burt doesn't call the cops and Lumon doesn't find out about what Irving B. did. So basically they would have to send them all down to testing, reset them all, and then start over. I guess from there it would just be Mark working with that lady to try to do the reintegration and figure out what's going on. Perhaps recruiting outie Irving, since he is also looking into it.
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Apr 8, 2022 17:13
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I just finished the last episode. Goddamn, nice point to end the season at. loving hell, hope they don't do the HBO thing and drag this out two years to the next season or some poo poo like that.
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Apr 8, 2022 17:20
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just finished right now so emotions running high but this might be the best first season of a tv show i've ever seen. usually it takes a few years to get to the point of investment i'm at with this just now. so loving good.
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Apr 8, 2022 17:25
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Khanstant posted:can i just say that i'm a total chrono-cheat with media unless I be a really good boy, and this was an episode that still gets a good chin hit. Heh this one backfired big time on me, I worked at Best Buy in the late 90s. We were all super anticipatory of The Phantom Menace and a couple days before the movie came out we got the novelization in the warehouse (to be held for a week or so to sell). I grabbed a copy as I was adding them to inventory and opened it up to a random page which just so happened to have "And Darth Maul fell to his death, sliced in half. Obi Wan had his revenge for Qui Gon" or something similar. I was like "Noooooooo"
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Apr 8, 2022 17:34
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I bought the box set of Dancer in the Dark but didn’t have my DVD player in college so I looked at the other bits in the box. Page 1 of the included book gave away the ending.
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Apr 8, 2022 17:35
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just looking over some of the reactions in thread here, couple things helly being an eagan was basically known to everyone here and probably most places which discuss the show in depth, but ask yourself if it was really a disappointing twist or if you just end up taking these ideas in from other people who collectively figure it out ahead of time - that's one reason i stopped reading the thread until now because i thought, 'oh yeah, that's probably true and might not have occurred to me' i don't think the innies taking their time to choose a good moment to take action was bad. regardless of any plan, they are dropped into strange rooms of strangers, you would be taking absolutely everything in. they also only get one shot so if they take it 5 minutes in and it goes poorly, well, bye bye. the only thing that was a bit smudgey about it was how much time did they all think they had? mark s said an hour in this, which puts helly in the right timeframe since her speech is in 20 minutes from waking up, mark s just has to wait 10 minutes or whatever until the first break - irving is the only one i was like 'uhh how does he think he has time for a drive?' but it turned out he did, just barely. i agree irving's wake up section was much less interesting that the others but it's purely because he was alone. i don't think it was bad, it's just that while the other two sections were serving as climaxes to the season, this one was putting some pieces in place for the continuing story next season. i am worried about what situation the main 5 (including ms casey) are going to be in next season. with all of this in the open now, they just seem so utterly hosed. assuming they don't just get shut down entirely - which they won't, because show over - there are no illusions left that the workers and the lumon staff aren't utter enemies now. loving cobel.
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Apr 8, 2022 17:37
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I am wholeheartedly in the camp that the characters acted reasonably. Keep in mind that when Dylan woke up, he was (apparently) in the middle of a quiet night at home with his family. While the innies didn't know for sure where they'd wake up, when they made their plan I'm sure they expected something similarly mundane. Helly's situation was totally insane, and as soon as she got her bearings it was clear there would be absolutely nobody there she could confide in. Gathering intel and then waiting for the speech was the best she could do. Mark woke up in a house full of people with no idea of his relationship to any of them, and then the huge shock of seeing and talking to a man who was basically his messiah. He got with his sister as quickly as he could. I'll grant that the writers could probably have skipped a couple of the million "Sure, we can talk in just a minute" delays, but I'll forgive them since, thank God, he and Devin did have the conversation they needed to have. Irving is the easiest to fault, but consider that it would reasonably be even more jarring to wake up in that room full of creepy paintings of Lumon. At least the others are in a more recognizable framework. And then he got carried away trying to learn about himself and I'm not going to pretend I wouldn't do the same, because how could you resist? I don't really buy what some people are saying, though, about how he found Burt because he didn't know anybody else. Sitting down and writing notes to his outie would clearly have been more in keeping with the plan if that was his goal. He found Burt because he was desperate to see Burt. Propaniac fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Apr 8, 2022 |
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Apr 8, 2022 17:37
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GoutPatrol posted:I also like how this entire episode does not explain at all what their job actually does. I still insist that they never need to explain it. I'm starting to agree on the latter. The only thing I can think of is that their work is tied to severance itself in some way, maybe that quarterly file was actually the final step of severance for Helly or part of general maintenance on others.
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Apr 8, 2022 17:44
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a thing i loved / am interested in more of is the boundaries of what the innies understand/are capable of. They have no memories and don't necessarily understand some things but are clearly functional humans in most senses. Irv looks out of practice but clearly gets the basics of driving, like muscle memory. I really liked "Inspectors? Is that a thing?" and Devon's "sorry, do you understand metaphors?" I love when a show gets playful with the premise and the characters share some viewer ignorance.
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Apr 8, 2022 17:44
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just realised i put some crisps at the side to eat while i was watching the finale and completely forgot they existed because i was so engrossed. i don't think that's ever happened to me before. roomtone fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Apr 8, 2022 |
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Apr 8, 2022 17:49
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Medullah posted:Heh this one backfired big time on me, I worked at Best Buy in the late 90s. We were all super anticipatory of The Phantom Menace and a couple days before the movie came out we got the novelization in the warehouse (to be held for a week or so to sell). I grabbed a copy as I was adding them to inventory and opened it up to a random page which just so happened to have "And Darth Maul fell to his death, sliced in half. Obi Wan had his revenge for Qui Gon" or something similar. I was like "Noooooooo" hahaha yeah it's enough of a gamble strategy to make it kind of exciting even if the attempted mission is tension relief.
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Apr 8, 2022 18:08
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I don't understand why outie-Helly did all that effort. I assume everyone high up in the company knows how hosed up the situation for workers is. Why wouldn't the company just pretend she worked down there, instead of getting an irreversible procedure and torturing your second half, with unknown consequences? Hell, they could have given her the procedure and sent her to work but never switch her from outie mode so she knew what was up while working down there.
ymgve fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Apr 8, 2022 |
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Apr 8, 2022 18:22
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sure okay posted:I guess I expected at least one of the three characters to have a plan and stick to it. They're all fighting for their lives and would have had ample time to think of what to do first, what to say, etc.
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Apr 8, 2022 18:22
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ymgve posted:I don't understand why outie-Helly did all that effort. I assume everyone high up in the company knows how hosed up the situation for workers is. Why wouldn't the company just pretend she worked down there, instead of getting an irreversible procedure and torturing your second half, with unknown consequences? Hell, they could have given her the procedure and sent her to work but never switch her from outie mode so she knew what was up while working down there. It's possible that unsevered people are not able to do MDR work. Also, she'd have to be a really good actor and study how innies react to things in order to not be discovered. Not that it would matter if she was discovered by the innies, but they were trying to get photos of her having a great time working for Lumon as a severed person and you can't do that if the three other people working there don't trust her.
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Apr 8, 2022 18:28
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Cojawfee posted:It's possible that unsevered people are not able to do MDR work. Also, she'd have to be a really good actor and study how innies react to things in order to not be discovered. Not that it would matter if she was discovered by the innies, but they were trying to get photos of her having a great time working for Lumon as a severed person and you can't do that if the three other people working there don't trust her. it did cross my mind that they could have just staged the rest of the workers being severed, also, but i'll accept this as realistic if not a great plan. because lumon has been shown to not actually be that smart, unless failure is their objective with this and after meeting Eagan Sr in this episode, i don't think it is. they're just not infallible evil geniuses. that's not a flaw in the writing unless the writing is telling you they are. i like how knowing this was all building towards a grand presentation makes all the photo ops in the workplace specifically for that, though. it is nice and tidy.
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Apr 8, 2022 18:33
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HOLY poo poo - I need more NOW.
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Apr 8, 2022 18:40
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Maybe it's also some cult thing that makes them want to do it for real. We really don't know much about their beliefs.
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Apr 8, 2022 18:43
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I feel there is a chance next season that all of MDR is fired so the premise will be like LOST's "Kate we need to go back" and we get more exploration of the outties trying to figure out their innies and getting the band back together along with that scientist that undid the severance procedure and trying to get to the testing floor. But it wouldn't really tie into Lumon wanting control over the children of Kier and just resetting the chip to continue torturing them? I just don't see the outties continuing the status quo.
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Apr 8, 2022 18:51
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My suspicion for next season is that we start following more outies than just Mark. For sure now that we know who Helly’s outie is we’re gonna see a lot more of her, I’m certain. Irving likewise is gonna be an interesting follow - wouldn’t be surprised if he and Mark meet up eventually
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Apr 8, 2022 19:43
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Hawkperson posted:My suspicion for next season is that we start following more outies than just Mark. For sure now that we know who Helly’s outie is we’re gonna see a lot more of her, I’m certain. Irving likewise is gonna be an interesting follow - wouldn’t be surprised if he and Mark meet up eventually yeah it's a clever hook, they've restrained themselves so firmly to Mark that there's loads of content they could easily make focusing on any other outie
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Apr 8, 2022 19:44
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it was annoying how much the last 2 episodes padded things out. it was almost comical how mark kept getting sidetracked to avoid the obvious conclusion to his story. other than that minor complaint, man what a fantastic show patricia arquette really stands out despite the already super stacked cast. her character is just so hard to watch. her facial expressions, her mannerisms, absolutely everything she does is wrong somehow.
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Apr 8, 2022 19:47
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Why did Helena actually sever - I think this is just classic rich rear end in a top hat ignorance. We saw her tape. We know how little she thinks of her innie. (The “she’s like a sister” talking point was a nice little stab) I’m very sure she didn’t think of the consequences of sharing a body with one of her “extended family.” I am curious if Helena will become if not an ally then at least a very conflicted villain. No way you can wake up mid-hanging and go “oh yeah, this is all fine”
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Apr 8, 2022 19:51
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ymgve posted:I don't understand why outie-Helly did all that effort. I assume everyone high up in the company knows how hosed up the situation for workers is. Why wouldn't the company just pretend she worked down there, instead of getting an irreversible procedure and torturing your second half, with unknown consequences? Hell, they could have given her the procedure and sent her to work but never switch her from outie mode so she knew what was up while working down there. the eagans all seem deluded enough to be true believers. maybe she bought into the corporate line that severance was awesome. that or shes taking one for the team to secure her spot at the rotation, whatever the gently caress that is. presumably there are other eagan heirs fighting for that same privilege
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Apr 8, 2022 19:58
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Hawkperson posted:Why did Helena actually sever - I think this is just classic rich rear end in a top hat ignorance. We saw her tape. We know how little she thinks of her innie. (The “she’s like a sister” talking point was a nice little stab) I’m very sure she didn’t think of the consequences of sharing a body with one of her “extended family.” She severed as a publicity stunt to prove how safe severance is to get leverage in government for a push to legalise widespread severance even for non-Lumon people. That's what that gala was for, for her to talk to press and lawmakers (the pro-severance govenor and his severed wife were there) about how awesome it was pretending to be one of the workers and how nice it was fitting in with the proles.
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Apr 8, 2022 19:58
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Also I think this is the first confirmation of Ms. Cobel's first name being Harmony from Mark S., so the Charlotte Cobel name tag is probably her mother e: prolly not since I see it's listed in the credits since March
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Apr 8, 2022 19:59
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Kill All Cops posted:Also I think this is the first confirmation of Ms. Cobel's first name being Harmony from Mark S., so the Charlotte Cobel name tag is probably her mother I think Gruden, Milchick and Melody all called her Harmony at various points too.
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Apr 8, 2022 20:00
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njsykora posted:She severed as a publicity stunt to prove how safe severance is to get leverage in government for a push to legalise widespread severance even for non-Lumon people. That's what that gala was for, for her to talk to press and lawmakers (the pro-severance govenor and his severed wife were there) about how awesome it was pretending to be one of the workers and how nice it was fitting in with the proles. Well yes, but the question was “why not just fake it”
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Apr 8, 2022 20:01
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Hawkperson posted:Well yes, but the question was “why not just fake it” I don't think this would actually work. It would be really easy to expose a fakery of this sort of thing - no implant, catching someone out just by talking to them, etc - and the risk of getting caught would be so high and the damage to the brand so big that if you're going to do this kind of PR stunt, you should really do it for real. They'd be spending the rest of their lives hiding it and one slip up, which we know Lumon has all the time, would be enough to possibly bring down the company.
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Apr 8, 2022 20:05
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ymgve posted:I don't understand why outie-Helly did all that effort. I assume everyone high up in the company knows how hosed up the situation for workers is. Why wouldn't the company just pretend she worked down there, instead of getting an irreversible procedure and torturing your second half, with unknown consequences? Hell, they could have given her the procedure and sent her to work but never switch her from outie mode so she knew what was up while working down there. I don't think they all do, and even the ones who do know probably delude themselves into thinking it's good, and at the very least, there shouldn't be much room to show disapproval.
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Apr 8, 2022 20:13
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babypolis posted:it was annoying how much the last 2 episodes padded things out. it was almost comical how mark kept getting sidetracked to avoid the obvious conclusion to his story. other than that minor complaint, man what a fantastic show It's hard to imagine Helly R. ever being allowed to return to the severed floor - but it does seem likely that Helena Eagan will go to the severed floor "undercover", to try to gather information from the innies about MDR's activities.
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Apr 8, 2022 20:24
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if that's the best gripe folks have about the show, that's a good thing, but also lol Last 2 eps were great i think y'all just wanting more answers than you were ever going to get at once, and that there wouldn't be time anyway to get into those answers. marks niece could not exist, irving could not care about burt at all, and while making the show emotionally worse, it still ain't gonna afford them to reveal all the beans and take down the big bads, like, our ka-tet was always fated for ill and we've seen plenty of attempts to speak out against lumen go nowhere. Besides, the mysteries are secondary to the characters. and our characters are hosed lol
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Apr 8, 2022 20:29
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Khanstant posted:if that's the best gripe folks have about the show, that's a good thing, but also lol Last 2 eps were great i think y'all just wanting more answers than you were ever going to get at once, and that there wouldn't be time anyway to get into those answers. marks niece could not exist, irving could not care about burt at all, and while making the show emotionally worse, it still ain't gonna afford them to reveal all the beans and take down the big bads, like, our ka-tet was always fated for ill and we've seen plenty of attempts to speak out against lumen go nowhere. i mean they were still great episodes but theres like theres 2-3 scenes of helly walking around that are basically exactly the same. the team being forced to split the finale into 2 episodes actually makes some sense
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Apr 8, 2022 20:30
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i think it's pretty clear eps 8 and 9 should have been one 60 minute episode rather than two 40 minute episodes. but i don't think it's really a huge deal. it's just something to point out, if you feel like.
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Apr 8, 2022 20:36
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roomtone posted:i think it's pretty clear eps 8 and 9 should have been one 60 minute episode rather than two 40 minute episodes.
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Apr 8, 2022 20:38
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roomtone posted:i think it's pretty clear eps 8 and 9 should have been one 60 minute episode rather than two 40 minute episodes. yeah. also if we lived in a reality with a 60 min episode 8 finale and i learned about this reality, i would be jealous
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Apr 8, 2022 20:38
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The ending we got for this season finale is the ending we were always going to get. There's no magical scenario where they cut out all the stalling and then advance the story further than what we got. So if you ask if I want one less episode that gets to the point faster, or the extra episode where there is stalling but we get more Severance, I'll take the second option every time.
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Apr 8, 2022 20:39
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The scene with Mark and Ricken was really nice, gave Ricken some more layers.
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Apr 8, 2022 20:52
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Oasx posted:The scene with Mark and Ricken was really nice, gave Ricken some more layers. yeah, realizing he is actually self aware instantly made ricken way more likeable. he also handled the baby crisis really well. you can actually kinda see why devin loves him for once lol. im actually interested in his character for next season, i bet hes going to be really into helping mark so he can talk to his innie again
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Apr 8, 2022 20:56
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