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He's also a former child soldier raised in the same fascist hellstate as Quigley, and from a caste that's forced into ghettos. Doesn't change how much he sucks and we should dislike him, but if we're going to absolve Quigley of his agency then we'd have to do the same for Lem.
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Apr 8, 2022 17:34
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Well I mean shouldn't we? Wasn't there that whole implication that Lem's mind was a bit short circuited by being next to Fitz-Helloie(sp) when the blood curse was levied?
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Apr 8, 2022 17:37
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habeasdorkus posted:He's also a former child soldier raised in the same fascist hellstate as Quigley, and from a caste that's forced into ghettos. Doesn't change how much he sucks and we should dislike him, but if we're going to absolve Quigley of his agency then we'd have to do the same for Lem. who said we're absolving him of his agency? it's just that we have what actually happened - that he's a weak, frightened little man who puts on an increasingly thick veneer of cynicism to cover up the fact that he basically destroyed his family out of naivete - and then what he (and you) want to believe - that he's a cackling bloodthirsty misogynist who totally intended to kill vienne all along and only hasn't killed his son because ??? Macdeo Lurjtux posted:Well I mean shouldn't we? Wasn't there that whole implication that Lem's mind was a bit short circuited by being next to Fitz-Helloie(sp) when the blood curse was levied? lem's immune as a ssoud. what drove him over the edge was PTSD from the events leading up to the vampire raid and duane's own final, weak agreement that he'd "never lost a lad," which destroyed lem's faith in him (and thus the only moral pillar he had that didn't stem directly from the State) duane, for his part, realized this as he was telling the story, and tripled down on his nationalistic fervor to ignore the fact that, as cope put it, he actually lost two lads that day Oxxidation fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Apr 8, 2022 |
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Apr 8, 2022 17:38
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I believe Quigley was afraid of what would happen if the government got wind of his village giving Uaid to the rebels, and so snitched on them before that happened in hopes that by doing so preemptively and making a case for Vienne they'd spare her life. He never truly minded that Vienne wasn't a traditional Aldish wife (as he was content for her to do as she pleased if it made her happy - an arrangement that led to their marriage in the first place), but the cultural expectation that he should be the master of his house obviously exerted further pressure on him, as he couldn't avoid feeling responsible for not being able to keep her from carrying on with what he thought was a very dangerous idea. To be clear, he was unhappy with his marriage, but the pain points were Uaid for obvious reasons and Matty, because he'd never had interest or desire to be a father and now he had another mouth to feed and also competition for Vienne's attention. A very lovely way for a father to feel and one that he shouldn't let influence his actions but also entirely ordinary feelings. With everything that happened afterwards he's ended up with even more complicated feelings towards Matty, and while he's obviously a lovely dad, assuming (as he's trying to present himself in these panels) that he only keeps him around because he's too much of a coward to off himself is very reductionist.
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Apr 8, 2022 17:39
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Oxxidation posted:it's just that we have what actually happened - that he's a weak, frightened little man who . . . basically destroyed his family out of naivete - and then what he (and you) want to believe - that he's a cackling bloodthirsty misogynist who totally intended to kill vienne all along and only hasn't killed his son because ??? You're clearly not reading my posts, so I'm not going to bother engaging after this. 1) I agree with you that he's making himself out to be the big bad villain when he's really just a pathetic, weak jerk. 2) I agree with you that he's nothing actually special, and that he tries to hide that behind this big show. 3) I agree with you that he turned in Vienne out of fear. I think we both would agree it's because he was scared. 4) I disagree with you that his fear for Vienne played a role in turning her in. He worked for the secret police. He knew precisely what happened to people like her. I believe he turned her in to save his own hide. Plus, when he lied to himself about what would actually happen to Vienne, that's pretty in keeping with his character as a bog standard rear end in a top hat. 5) I disagree with you that fear was his only reason for turning her in. Based upon the flashbacks, he was pressured by the misogynistic community around him to make Vienne "act proper", did not at all want Matty or to be a father, and felt that Matty stole Vienne's attention from him. I don't believe he turns in Vienne if it wasn't for his fear of being tortured and murdered himself, but I also believe he would not have turned in Vienne had it not been for his anger at Vienne. 6) I specifically stated that Matty represents the last thing of Vienne he has. Moreover, he can't make any sort of atonement to Vienne if he lets Matty die. Hence his fleeing to Cresce, and then trying to earn a bunch of money for Matty to live off of once he's gone. 7) I think you're overlooking all the other lovely things he's done during the story that makes him a villain nonetheless. This scene right here is him intentionally inflicting emotional abuse on his child because he's too weak to deal with reality. habeasdorkus fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Apr 8, 2022 |
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Apr 8, 2022 18:03
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Honestly this is a big part of what I like about Unsounded. It asks questions about agency and guilt and atonement, and then tests your commitment to the answers by throwing you characters who are mega assholes in unending variations.
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Apr 9, 2022 00:17
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Quigley is, in fact, a terrible person. The catch is he'd rather have you believe this stems from him being hard and detached, rather than soft and weak. Given the choice between being hated and pitied, he'd rather be hated; the fact that he's both is what he hates, and that someone might pity him (rather than hate him) is what he fears. Pity leads to sympathy, which might lead to forgiveness, or even salvation. He doesn't want salvation. He doesn't think he deserves it. He's a self-loathing insect who acts the bastard, because its easier (for him) to exist as the latter than the former. We do this a lot, in our own history. Evil men who did evil things are treated (at times) like comic book villains, because their actions are so obscene and loathsome that we find some comfort in sectioning them off from the rest of humanity. They're monsters. Demons. No regular person (like me) could ever do what they did. There's something fundamentally broken about them that we'd never fall victim to. Some of these same folks boast about how, if they'd been there, back in the day, they would've made a stand; they've have marched with the oppressed, sheltered the persecuted, put their lives on the line to do the right thing. But would they? Would they really? Some of them, yes; others, no. Myself, I don't know, and that bothers me a lot. In an obscenely twisted way, Quigley probably thinks he's doing Matty a service right now. It's not that all people are bad, no, no, your dad's just uniquely dreadful, a singularly abhorrent piece of garbage human being. Believe that, so you can believe others are better; so you don't think the world is full of people like me.
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Apr 9, 2022 02:34
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Quigley is trying to be a flaming pile of garbage when he's more of a pitiable little garbage pile. Honestly a lot of the characters in the comic are rather pitiable garbage piles. Death is the Gods' Crime, more like Death is Trash Pickup Day.
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Apr 9, 2022 18:01
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If he really didn't give a poo poo he'd have never picked up Matty and never killed the guys who burnt the forge down. He wasn't expecting to live of course, but he also could've dumped Matty at any time or happily sold Uaid off to the Crescians and had a perfectly fine life after that. But he didn't. He wants Matty to hate him probably from a mix of thinking he should be hated (self loathing) and also some perverse hope that if he sufficiently alienates Matty that he'll be alright when he inevitably dies in a few years and quickly move on (the first time he gets upset is when Starfish basically makes him think about what might happen to Matty after he's gone- a blind plat child in a world of human traffickers). There's a lot of people in the story whose biggest flaw is that they won't fully let go of anything. Quigley clearly hates Alderode and the whole system (not in the same way a Crescian would, but it's clear he resents it and the Gefendur) but he wouldn't join the March with Vienne, nor would he just shrug and just raise Matty after his countrymen did what they do to traitors. If he never cared about Matty or Vienne at all he again- wouldn't have done anything after turning Vienne in. People turn over traitors all the time- and he knew what would happen, he's just not willing to let go of whatever fondness he might've had for Vienne or Matty in the same way he wasn't willing to completely forswear Alderode when she was alive. Duane has the same problem. He's kind of a moral coward in a lot of ways but he's still got a good heart- but he can't let go of Alderode and definitely not his own faith. Sette can't let go of her idea of being her father's child, so she won't just openly be the sweet kid she obviously could be and make friends normally or just tell Duane she wanted him to take her way, or trust anyone fully.
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Apr 9, 2022 20:26
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Tar_Squid posted:Quigley is trying to be a flaming pile of garbage when he's more of a pitiable little garbage pile. Bastion put Duane in the recycling bin instead of the compost on purpose, thereby sealing his fate.
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Apr 9, 2022 20:29
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https://www.casualvillain.com/Unsounded/comic/ch16/ch16_154.html I mean, that much is obvious Duane.
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Apr 11, 2022 04:31
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the prancing poo poo was all set for another sermon to joust with and duane just took all the joy out of it no point to any of this if he can't even be the worst person in the room
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Apr 11, 2022 04:42
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Fabricated posted:https://www.casualvillain.com/Unsounded/comic/ch16/ch16_154.html The best part is that Duane is saying it with remorse almost certainly from his expression And that does absolutely nothing to soften bow completely this demolishes Quigley. Probably makes it more devastating tbh.
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Apr 11, 2022 07:49
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Actually laughed at how hard Quigs was destroyed just by Duane going 
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Apr 11, 2022 12:16
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Hit his weak point (conformity with the weirdo Ald nationalist) for massive damage!
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Apr 11, 2022 13:11
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Interesting how the lighting changes that page. I wonder what's outside. (oh boy here we go)
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Apr 11, 2022 15:33
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Ok, that generated a bit of pathos from me.
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Apr 11, 2022 15:35
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I do like how devastating it is to simply tell Quigs that he's not special or a unique villain, he's just exactly as complicit in the exact same evils as everyone else.
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Apr 11, 2022 16:01
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Nothing cuts like an Adelier.
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Apr 11, 2022 16:55
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drat
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Apr 11, 2022 17:24
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:Nothing cuts like an Adelier. Sette’s looking like she’d be happy to test that theory if Quigley hasn’t just collapsed in a pile of shame
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Apr 11, 2022 17:29
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Duane giving Quigs the (verbal) hug he needed.
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Apr 11, 2022 17:52
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I dunno if that's much of a hug. It's kind of a comforting comment that is at the same time just even more damning as a result.
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Apr 11, 2022 22:20
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Besides the catharsis inherent in airing out his shame and frustration, Quigley was looking for condemnation to distract himself while reaffirming his self-loathing internal narrative of being a despicable piece of poo poo - after all, everything happened because he wasn't strong enough, because he wasn't good enough, because he is Mathis Quigley the forever outsider, fundamentally incapable of finding happiness anywhere as everything he touches inevitably turns to excrement. But instead, the most self-righteous ponce for hundreds of miles around, a "man" who Quigley has at-best tolerated but largely and consistently antagonized since their first encounter, and who out of all present has the cultural context to truly understand just how much of a gently caress up Quigley is, went and showed him sincere empathy. Instantly disarmed, Quigley collapses and clings to that glimmer of acceptance. Conspiratiorist fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Apr 11, 2022 |
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Apr 11, 2022 23:19
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Conspiratiorist posted:Besides the catharsis inherent in airing out his shame and frustration, Quigley was looking for condemnation to distract himself while reaffirming his self-loathing internal narrative of being a despicable piece of poo poo - after all, everything happened because he wasn't strong enough, because he wasn't good enough, because he is Mathis Quigley the forever outsider, fundamentally incapable of finding happiness anywhere as everything he touches inevitably turns to excrement. I mean quigley says on this page that the best feeling he’s ever had in his life was being accepted and understood as he sold out his wife. Duane, for all of Mathis’s mockery, is basically the ideal ald; good enough to be righteous, cowardly enough to be pliable. Quigley must have imagined him happy, and finally getting that understanding again along with seeing his own shame reflected in Duane cuts him deeply.
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Apr 12, 2022 01:49
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Ashley just straight up saying the cast is getting trimmed back next chapter, lol. Man it's gonna be cruel probably.
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Apr 20, 2022 13:11
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So Prakhuta knows they're coming and apparently was trying to stop them before they arrived.
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Apr 20, 2022 14:00
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Oh yeah…I forgot about what happened to Ana.. 
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Apr 20, 2022 19:37
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Fabricated posted:Ashley just straight up saying the cast is getting trimmed back next chapter, lol. Man it's gonna be cruel probably. The story is soon moving to Alderode and no way Toma/Elka or the Quigleys would follow, so we're very much in Anyone Can Die territory here. That said, the Crescian conspiracies need resolution so unless Sonorie's plans come to an abrupt end there's still a role for Toma and/or Elka to play.
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Apr 20, 2022 22:37
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I remember at one point Minnow was supposed to join the cast, but I suppose that's been nixed. Shame. I enjoyed the idea of her. I also recall her saying we'd meet Jivi's mom at some point, which might also have been dropped, but gives me hope he'll live. Anyone who's not Duane or Sette is probably dodging cross hairs though.
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Apr 20, 2022 22:54
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Is it me or has the index page image been updated? Uaid is gone but so is ## Elka ## 
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Apr 21, 2022 20:25
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I think it was always like that? I could be misremembering. She's still on the main page but then so is Uaid.
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Apr 21, 2022 23:26
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Guess who's back?
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Apr 25, 2022 04:20
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Fabricated posted:Guess who's back? me, before clicking: oh no me, after clicking: ohhhhh NOOOOOOOOO
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Apr 25, 2022 04:24
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Oxxidation posted:me, before clicking: oh no "I wonder what hosed up cliffhaAAAAAAAAAAAAA"
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Apr 25, 2022 04:48
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OH NO!
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Apr 25, 2022 06:07
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I was expecting Murkoph Might've preferred it, too. 
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Apr 25, 2022 10:19
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Thank god for the landing page so that visitors to the site don't have to see that page immediately.
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Apr 25, 2022 13:26
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Has she said anything before about the next chapter wrapping up the story?
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Apr 25, 2022 14:45
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:Has she said anything before about the next chapter wrapping up the story? specifically it’s wrapping up the first book
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Apr 25, 2022 14:49
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