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Der Kyhe posted:The Russians cannot be stupid enough to use chemical warfare against city which wasn't evacuated? Using chemical agents itself, alone in a combat zone with civilians in danger is stuff that even the Actual Nazis didn't do, right? IIRC the Nazis didn't use chemical weapons in warfare because they believed the Brits had much bigger CW stocks and and would drown them in that poo poo in response. It wasn't out of the Nazis' love for humanity. If they hadn't been afraid of retaliation they would have used them.
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Apr 11, 2022 21:20
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mobby_6kl posted:The shell knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where it isn't. By subtracting where it is from where it isn't, or where it isn't from where it is (whichever is greater), it obtains a difference, or deviation. The guidance subsystem uses deviations to generate corrective commands to drive the shell from a position where it is to a position where it isn't, and arriving at a position where it wasn't, it now is. Consequently, the position where it is, is now the position that it wasn't, and it follows that the position that it was, is now the position that it isn't. I don't know what I hate more. That I understood the reference above, or that you used it.
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Apr 11, 2022 21:20
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mobby_6kl posted:Not just Norway but also Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia. Poland is right there. The rest of those countries don't sound like anything I ever learned in my US public education and are therefor probably made up. (I kid, apologies to anyone who lives in the Baltics)
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Apr 11, 2022 21:21
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In my defense quite a few people even in this thread were arguing NATO wasnt bordering russia until x year. ergo norways entrance to the sea also sweden looking like a limp dick
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Apr 11, 2022 21:22
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cochise posted:After seeing how Assad got away with deploying chemical weapons multiple times in Syria I'd imagine the Russians weren't worried at all. If Russia thinks this conflict is being treated the same as previous ones they have been paying little attention.
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Apr 11, 2022 21:22
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GABA ghoul posted:IIRC the Nazis didn't use chemical weapons in warfare because they believed the Brits had much bigger CW stocks and and would drown them in that poo poo in response. It wasn't out of the Nazis' love for humanity. If they hadn't been afraid of retaliation they would have used them. I didn't say they refrained from doing that out of their love for humanity. What I am saying that even they had an insight to decide "maybe not" because of whatever reasons, which the Russians clearly do not have, if this turns out to be true. And it is a huge loving concern for both Finland and Sweden if it did happen.
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Apr 11, 2022 21:24
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Just waiting for the claims that NATO won't support the Baltics because they promised to invade Russia if they used chemical weapons in Ukraine.
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Apr 11, 2022 21:24
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Oh, that’s on inertial? Yes. It's considered the more relevant figure in a peer engagement because the GPS receiver is not very jam-resistant, so the assumption is that against Russia or China the GPS guidance won't actually work. (GPS-guided cruise missiles and stuff like that have receivers that are extremely directional and only looking upwards, making jamming GPS against them not very practical. This wouldn't fit a 155mm shell.) In environments where GPS is usable, Excalibur is pretty much pinpoint accurate.
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Apr 11, 2022 21:25
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Chalks posted:If Russia thinks this conflict is being treated the same as previous ones they have been paying little attention. Well we are living in the dumbest timeline so I wouldn't doubt Russia's inability to read the room.
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Apr 11, 2022 21:29
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The places russia did this before werent the center of world attention at the moment
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Apr 11, 2022 21:31
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Despera posted:In my defense quite a few people even in this thread were arguing NATO wasnt bordering russia until x year. ergo norways entrance to the sea I got it just fine, people are just being wooshed like NLAWs.
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Apr 11, 2022 21:32
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Cicci is a Russian agent according to this map And Cyprus delacred independence??
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Apr 11, 2022 21:33
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cochise posted:Well we are living in the dumbest timeline so I wouldn't doubt Russia's inability to read the room. Didn't the Russians put a new guy in charge just some days ago? Maybe this was his plan to quickly deliver a "win" so that they could declare victory and occupy parts of Eastern Ukraine with a land bridge to Crimea? Obviously you'd have to be insane to actually commit to this level of atrocities, but its fully within the Russian tactic of doing large scale terror attacks, and try to weasel out of consequences later, especially since EU economic sanctions are going nowhere.
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Apr 11, 2022 21:35
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Der Kyhe posted:Didn't the Russians put a new guy in charge just some days ago? Maybe this was his plan to quickly deliver a "win" so that they could declare victory and occupy Eastern Ukraine with a land bridge to Crimea? The new guy in charge is working out well with two BTGs eradicated within days of his administration Putin just put a guy in between himself and his commanders as another center of blame for military failures. loving lol
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Apr 11, 2022 21:35
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Der Kyhe posted:Didn't the Russians put a new guy in charge just some days ago? Maybe this was his plan to quickly deliver a "win" so that they could declare victory and occupy parts of Eastern Ukraine with a land bridge to Crimea? The new guy in charge is apparently a bit notorious for attacks on civilians in Syria Also the Defense spokesperson for the DPR said this earlier today, which seems not great https://twitter.com/KevinRothrock/status/1513583717033390085?s=20&t=YvMlGapqEkJo-6iPas3IrQ
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Apr 11, 2022 21:36
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I thought the "new guy" was already the dude overseeing the Donbas front? I.E. He wasn't brought in as an outside troubleshooter, he was just promoted from within to have authority over the guys in charge of the other fronts.
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Apr 11, 2022 21:39
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KitConstantine posted:The new guy in charge is apparently a bit notorious for attacks on civilians in Syria The DNR and LNR never signed chemical weapons conventions. Their rights to own, bear and use chemicals arms shall not be infringement by the decadent and failing West.
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Apr 11, 2022 21:42
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KitConstantine posted:The new guy in charge is apparently a bit notorious for attacks on civilians in Syria Chemical Troops sounds like a Red Alert unit.
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Apr 11, 2022 21:45
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:It's not a NAZI salute it's a Roman salute! It's to signify the return of the tsar and the true successor to the Roman empire which totally is NOT the basis of nazism. Yes, the “true successor to the Roman Empire” is a aging Russian gangster. That makes even more sense than the Russian Tsars fixation with Rome, a classical Mediterranean empire whose territory did not include any part of Russia—though the Byzantine empire did control Crimea briefly.
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Apr 11, 2022 21:57
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with a rebel yell she QQd posted:Chemical Troops sounds like a Red Alert unit. Don't give Putin any ideas. quote:Desolator troopers were terminally ill patients, spirited away from Soviet hospitals in Omsk, implanted with extensive cybernetic enhancements and placed into monstrous suits of bionically-powered armour, with no recollection of their previous lives thanks to the memory wipe. William Bear fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Apr 11, 2022 |
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Apr 11, 2022 21:59
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Doccers posted:.. did Norway (a NATO member that borders Russia) suddenly vanish somehow? They engaged stealth and went Viking... as was the fashion in my day. 
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Apr 11, 2022 22:05
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ZombieLenin posted:Yes, the “true successor to the Roman Empire” is a aging Russian gangster. That makes even more sense than the Russian Tsars fixation with Rome, a classical Mediterranean empire whose territory did not include any part of Russia—though the Byzantine empire did control Crimea briefly.
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Apr 11, 2022 22:09
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Looks like Russia did or is about to do some more awful poo poo in Sumy https://twitter.com/RussianEmbassy/status/1513570991288557570 Also Azov is saying on Telegram that 3 people were wounded/made ill by the attack so hopefully if it did happen it was a limited exposure. Still no other sources but I don't know how we'll get those anytime soon, the fog of war is so thick around Mariupol. Which makes it an ideal place for Russia to use chemical weapons and get away with it. Youth Decay fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Apr 11, 2022 |
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Apr 11, 2022 22:17
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Despera posted:Thought this thread could use some levity sorry It’s fine, I would’ve personally been far less subtle in asking Americans to raise their hands. Risky Bisquick posted:They legit deleted Norway, the baltics, and kaliningrad from that map Maybe this is what Peskov meant with rebalancing the western border.
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Apr 11, 2022 22:20
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:And Cyprus delacred independence?? Uh, that's real life since 1960.
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Apr 11, 2022 22:21
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Got to give it to die Welt. Not even a day later than they hired the totally brave Russian propagandist who tried telling people the truth and got fined €250, Ovsyannikova is already posting bothsidesing op’eds, it seems. https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/plus238054341/Marina-Owsjannikowa-Die-Russen-haben-Angst.html This is definitely going to get laughed at in history books. Hardly believable exile scenario, gets platformed by parliament of client state #1, lands a cushy high visibility job as the loving Ukraine correspondent in a major publication of client state #2.
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Apr 11, 2022 22:41
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Got to give it to die Welt. Not even a day later than they hired the totally brave Russian propagandist who tried telling people the truth and got fined €250, Ovsyannikova is already posting bothsidesing op’eds, it seems. Most of the Germans I know don't take Die Welt very seriously, so idk.
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Apr 11, 2022 22:46
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busalover posted:Most of the Germans I know don't take Die Welt very seriously, so idk. Even if that generalises well, Welt is still a popular news site and this will get way more eyeballs than I would like it to.
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Apr 11, 2022 22:53
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with a rebel yell she QQd posted:Chemical Troops sounds like a Red Alert unit. Nah, that’s straight up Brotherhood of NOD poo poo right there.
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Apr 11, 2022 23:05
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Der Kyhe posted:The Russians cannot be stupid enough to use chemical warfare against city which wasn't evacuated? Using chemical agents itself, alone in a combat zone with civilians in danger is stuff that even the Actual Nazis didn't do, right? They are that stupid. If this turns out to be real, best case scenario is an oil embargo. I don’t want to even contemplate the worst case scenario. I don’t imagine we have to worry about the worst case scenario unless there is widespread use by Russia’s armed forces. GABA ghoul posted:IIRC the Nazis didn't use chemical weapons in warfare because they believed the Brits had much bigger CW stocks and and would drown them in that poo poo in response. It wasn't out of the Nazis' love for humanity. If they hadn't been afraid of retaliation they would have used them. This is kind of true. They knew the British had chemical weapons as well, so they did not use theirs because of something along the lines of mutually assured destruction, but with nerve agents.
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Apr 11, 2022 23:06
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The Mariupol troops are in the middle of an industrial zone, right? Maybe some sort of storage tank got hit? The Russians already hit some nitric acid tanks somewhere else, causing toxic leaks. If that limited effect of a handful of guys holds true, I'd guess it was probably that. It'll be hard getting any confirmation out of Mariupol at this time. Or Russia is testing the water for more chemical attacks and it's just going to escalate as they squeeze the area around the steelworks.
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Apr 11, 2022 23:11
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ZombieLenin posted:They are that stupid. If this turns out to be real, best case scenario is an oil embargo. I don’t want to even contemplate the worst case scenario. This point is somewhat overstated. The actual reason there was relatively little battlefield chemical weapons use in WWII (though even that statement has some important caveats, e.g., Italians in Ethiopia) is that chemical weapons aren't actually particularly useful: https://acoup.blog/2020/03/20/collections-why-dont-we-use-chemical-weapons-anymore/
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Apr 11, 2022 23:13
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That and CW are a huge logistical pain, dangerous to your own guys, difficult to use, and not terribly effective against competent opposition. E:fb
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Apr 11, 2022 23:14
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Silver2195 posted:This point is somewhat overstated. The actual reason there was relatively little battlefield chemical weapons use in WWII (though even that statement has some important caveats, e.g., Italians in Ethiopia) is that chemical weapons aren't actually particularly useful: https://acoup.blog/2020/03/20/collections-why-dont-we-use-chemical-weapons-anymore/ Yeah, you'd think Devereaux's argument would apply pretty squarely here: why bother using chemical weapons against like a small handful of guys when you could just blow them up more efficiently with the tremendous amount of artillery blanketing the entire city.
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Apr 11, 2022 23:15
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The cruelty is the point. The brutality, the spread of terror, is the point. Russia demonstrates itself willing to escalate when the opposition does not.
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Apr 11, 2022 23:22
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E: wrong thread
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Apr 11, 2022 23:25
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GABA ghoul posted:IIRC the Nazis didn't use chemical weapons in warfare because they believed the Brits had much bigger CW stocks and and would drown them in that poo poo in response. It wasn't out of the Nazis' love for humanity. If they hadn't been afraid of retaliation they would have used them. Yeah, Italy had no problem using them on Abyssinia, because the world is poo poo and nobody cared enough.
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Apr 11, 2022 23:32
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Putin loves his stupid acts of needless agression
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Apr 11, 2022 23:46
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C'mon Slovakia send them planes, don't hurt us again https://twitter.com/biannagolodryga/status/1513637726645596168?s=20&t=yh8SikD4KobeCMLYobDBpw https://www.politico.eu/article/slovakia-mig-jets-to-ukraine-prime-minister-eduard-heger-bratislava/ quote:Speaking to POLITICO following a trip to Ukraine late last week, Heger said his government has been asked to provide Ukraine with Soviet-designed MiG-29 fighter aircraft and Slovak-made Zuzana self-propelled howitzers, with discussions ongoing. I'm v much picturing a  during that last sentence. Like duh of course that's what he was saying.
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Apr 11, 2022 23:49
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Silver2195 posted:This point is somewhat overstated. The actual reason there was relatively little battlefield chemical weapons use in WWII (though even that statement has some important caveats, e.g., Italians in Ethiopia) is that chemical weapons aren't actually particularly useful: https://acoup.blog/2020/03/20/collections-why-dont-we-use-chemical-weapons-anymore/ I was thinking of bringing this article up, because I feel that by and large it is completely correct. However, it's worth noting that it discusses almost exclusively why chemical weapons aren't used in peer military conflicts against opposing soldiers. The writer then goes on to say that chemical weapons still see use against civilian population by armies which are forced to abandon modern maneuver tactics in favor of city sieges, and as terror tactics. This does not mean that Russia is confirmed to be using chemical weapons; but the reality of the war right now is effectively the one situation in which the author concludes that chemical weapons are still effective, so it is too early to rule out their use as well.
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