Total Warhammer 3: Call a Jade Wizard... but not for me!

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Total Warhammer 3: Call a Jade Wizard... but not for me!

DeadFatDuckFat: Oct 29, 2012; This avatar brought to you by the 'save our dead gay forums' foundation.

Collapsing Farts posted:

I really recommend the "change starting settlement" mod. It really helps replayability when you can start in a new part of the world with certain factions so you're not always locked into fighting the same opponents over and over

I'd also rec picking up a No Aversion mod or editing it yourself. You end up fighting some funny mixed armies due to the alliances the AI ends up making

# ? Apr 13, 2022 16:58

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# ? Jun 1, 2024 18:31

Dr Kool-AIDS: Mar 26, 2004

Gonkish posted:

Man reddit is incredibly loving salty about the game. Like, yes, the launch had issues, but they spent maybe three days saying 1.1 was good and now they're back at the "worst launch ever, game doomed, CA in shambles, IE never releasing" mantra.

I dunno, the workshop solves most of my immediate concerns, most of which were subjective. There's still the performance issues (holy poo poo Kislev/Norsca make the framerate chug), weird bugs, rough balance, etc. Game has issues, in other words. But reddit is full of people trying to one-up one another in a doomers echo chamber. Do they not remember Rome 2's release? That was way worse.

Yeah, with mods and everything I don't think it's a bad game anymore, even if I think it still falls short of being truly good (especially in comparison to 2 with DLC) and probably won't be playing a ton until we see IE or further improvements/additions. I think some of the hyperbole is just an extended hype hangover, where something not being the very best game ever like they (and a lot of us to a lesser degree) talked themselves into thinking it was going to be led to massive disappointment. I think the common complaint that CA isn't doing themselves any favors by keeping so quiet about their future plans isn't really wrong either, though I think there's a decent chance we'll see at least some kind of roadmap this week. If not, they've done a bad job of managing expectations again. But realistically people who still hate the current state of the game are better off forgetting it exists for a few months and checking back instead of rage poisoning themselves over a loving video game. It's not like there aren't other games to play.

# ? Apr 13, 2022 17:10

Lord Packinham: Dec 30, 2006; :<

Gonkish posted:

Man reddit is incredibly loving salty about the game. Like, yes, the launch had issues, but they spent maybe three days saying 1.1 was good and now they're back at the "worst launch ever, game doomed, CA in shambles, IE never releasing" mantra.

I dunno, the workshop solves most of my immediate concerns, most of which were subjective. There's still the performance issues (holy poo poo Kislev/Norsca make the framerate chug), weird bugs, rough balance, etc. Game has issues, in other words. But reddit is full of people trying to one-up one another in a doomers echo chamber. Do they not remember Rome 2's release? That was way worse.

I think Reddit is right and they have right to be, this isn�t a new game, WH2 and WH3 are essentially just expansion packs. This is the third game they have made where almost all the mechanics, factions and everything else has been done.

It is worse in almost every way, performance, gameplay, bugs. Like, I�m not going to flip out like Reddit is doing, I�m just going to wait. That said, this was a total faceplant with the hyped third game in a series. It�s totally fixable, I�m just worried it�s going to take far too long to get to parity with WH2 because there is no real reason to play WH3 right now.

# ? Apr 13, 2022 17:24

smug jeebus: Oct 26, 2008

Also lol at 'Rome 2 was worse.' Dude, neither myself nor many (possibly most) of the people who bought WH3 even played Rome 2, and it wouldn't matter if we had. It's completely irrelevant.

# ? Apr 13, 2022 17:30

queeb: Jun 10, 2004; m

I find 3s gameplay and factions way worse than 2s so until IE and some more dlc hit with fun stuff I'm glad I game-passed it.

# ? Apr 13, 2022 17:40

DeadFatDuckFat: Oct 29, 2012; This avatar brought to you by the 'save our dead gay forums' foundation.

Empire taught me that major AI improvements will never happen in any particular game after release

# ? Apr 13, 2022 17:40

Francis: Jul 23, 2007; Thanks for the input, Jeff.

Warhammer 2 is a much harder standard to live up to than Warhammer 1 was.

The game feels less fun in part because it's just balanced around a lower power level for everything except melee infantry. Artillery and magic feel weak, monsters are somewhat crippled without life magic (which is why LoC bloodthirsters and patriarch stacks are so strong)

The much anticipated siege rework fell flat and fighting the same few drawn-out settlement maps feels awful. The walled settlements have garbage designs and fortifications are even more annoying and useless. The siege AI certainly isn't any better, either.

Auto resolve was OP on higher difficulty, but it went too far in the other direction, like the screenshot above. Fighting every single battle manually, however trivial, is slow and tedious.

The Realm of Chaos campaign doubles down on everything bad about the Vortex by additionally crippling your main army while it plays a mini game. Expansion doesn't help you at all to win the campaign directly, and arguably hurts you with the rifts and making your larger empire more threatening and difficult to defend.

Basically, the game was deliberately designed to be less fun. Congratulations, mission accomplished.

The launch is really bad, and just because CA had a history of awful launches doesn't make it any better.

# ? Apr 13, 2022 18:08

PlushCow: Oct 19, 2005; The cow eats the grass

Francis posted:

Warhammer 2 is a much harder standard to live up to than Warhammer 1 was.

The game feels less fun in part because it's just balanced around a lower power level for everything except melee infantry. Artillery and magic feel weak, monsters are somewhat crippled without life magic (which is why LoC bloodthirsters and patriarch stacks are so strong)

The much anticipated siege rework fell flat and fighting the same few drawn-out settlement maps feels awful. The walled settlements have garbage designs and fortifications are even more annoying and useless. The siege AI certainly isn't any better, either.

Auto resolve was OP on higher difficulty, but it went too far in the other direction, like the screenshot above. Fighting every single battle manually, however trivial, is slow and tedious.

The Realm of Chaos campaign doubles down on everything bad about the Vortex by additionally crippling your main army while it plays a mini game. Expansion doesn't help you at all to win the campaign directly, and arguably hurts you with the rifts and making your larger empire more threatening and difficult to defend.

Basically, the game was deliberately designed to be less fun. Congratulations, mission accomplished.

The launch is really bad, and just because CA had a history of awful launches doesn't make it any better.

The siege stuff is so disappointing to me; the maps are too big that I dont feel like ever splitting my army, and i end up just doing what i did mostly in tww2, just slog it out in a narrow area, but at least sometimes in TWW2 I would split my army a bit. Here is it just annoying. I know theres a mod out there that changes all settlement maps to open maps but id still like to do some sieges, I just wish they werent so drat big.

# ? Apr 13, 2022 18:16

Lord Packinham: Dec 30, 2006; :<

PlushCow posted:

The siege stuff is so disappointing to me; the maps are too big that I dont feel like ever splitting my army, and i end up just doing what i did mostly in tww2, just slog it out in a narrow area, but at least sometimes in TWW2 I would split my army a bit. Here is it just annoying. I know theres a mod out there that changes all settlement maps to open maps but id still like to do some sieges, I just wish they werent so drat big.

I did one of the big sieges on the wall for Cathay and my troops pathfinding just broke, they just rubbed against a line of buildings because a couple dudes couldn�t walk around a corner, the unit was wiped out and although it didn�t matter at all, it just left such a bad taste in my mouth and I moved on to another game.

# ? Apr 13, 2022 18:23

dogstile: May 1, 2012; fucking clocks
how do they work?

I don't particularly think its "The worst release ever". The roster is a bit boring, but i've managed to get 100 hours out of the campaign and the biggest problem was what, the lord bug and a memory leak that made the game crash if I played for 4 hours in a row?

Lord Packinham posted:

I did one of the big sieges on the wall for Cathay and my troops pathfinding just broke, they just rubbed against a line of buildings because a couple dudes couldn�t walk around a corner, the unit was wiped out and although it didn�t matter at all, it just left such a bad taste in my mouth and I moved on to another game.

This isn't a warhammer 3 specific bug, this happens in three kingdoms as well. I actually had He Man and He Yi stuck on a wall last night. Pain in the rear end.

PlushCow posted:

The siege stuff is so disappointing to me; the maps are too big that I dont feel like ever splitting my army, and i end up just doing what i did mostly in tww2, just slog it out in a narrow area, but at least sometimes in TWW2 I would split my army a bit. Here is it just annoying. I know theres a mod out there that changes all settlement maps to open maps but id still like to do some sieges, I just wish they werent so drat big.

I think this is probably just you getting bored with sieges in general. I'm the same, I generally just hit one section of the wall. I autoresolve most sieges and if I want to do them i'll actually play them out.

Honestly, the biggest problem I have with WH3 is that when my cav hits the back of some archers, they don't immediately disintegrate like they do in three kingdoms.

# ? Apr 13, 2022 18:42

Arghy: Nov 15, 2012

Francis posted:

Warhammer 2 is a much harder standard to live up to than Warhammer 1 was.

The game feels less fun in part because it's just balanced around a lower power level for everything except melee infantry. Artillery and magic feel weak, monsters are somewhat crippled without life magic (which is why LoC bloodthirsters and patriarch stacks are so strong)

The much anticipated siege rework fell flat and fighting the same few drawn-out settlement maps feels awful. The walled settlements have garbage designs and fortifications are even more annoying and useless. The siege AI certainly isn't any better, either.

Auto resolve was OP on higher difficulty, but it went too far in the other direction, like the screenshot above. Fighting every single battle manually, however trivial, is slow and tedious.

The Realm of Chaos campaign doubles down on everything bad about the Vortex by additionally crippling your main army while it plays a mini game. Expansion doesn't help you at all to win the campaign directly, and arguably hurts you with the rifts and making your larger empire more threatening and difficult to defend.

Basically, the game was deliberately designed to be less fun. Congratulations, mission accomplished.

The launch is really bad, and just because CA had a history of awful launches doesn't make it any better.

Yeah these are the same devs that learned all these lessons from TW2 and seemingly made the exact same mistakes. The game still has massive potential but it's likely going to be very rocky until they get their poo poo together which they shouldn't have to at this point. I'm definitely going to hold off on anything paid until IE is in good working order--why pay for DLC's when i could be putting that money towards modders who're fixing this poo poo for free.

# ? Apr 13, 2022 18:43

Panfilo: Aug 27, 2011; Can't post for 10 days!

Splitting your forces is actually a good thing to do because it compels the AI to spread out their defenders along multiple flanks. They also can't see units that have stalk or in forests so you can have some visible units on one side and hidden units on the other, they'll often leave that side completely undefended as a result.

# ? Apr 13, 2022 18:46

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

"Rome 2 was worse" is a completely irrelevant nothing statement. Rome 2 is a nearly decade old product and was made when the company had a lot less institutional knowledge and experience with the engine. It sure as gently caress should be worse!

The game is sorta playable in its current state, especially if you mod it, but I would rate it as worse than launch TWW2 in my own personal book, and it's hard for me to work up the enthusiasm to play it that much despite racking up hundreds of hours in TWW2 and still starting new campaigns every so often. My main beefs:

The crushed economy compared to TWW2 is good in that it helps combat brainless doomstacking, but it ends up feeling awful because it badly exacerbates the problem of "you're spamming the shittiest dogshit tier 1 troops everywhere until turn 70 because it's all you can afford for most factions. hope you like kossars/peasants!" and i'm bored to loving tears of it. I'd rather have high tier units limited by expandable caps than have them limited by a crushingly tight economy.
The siege/settlement rework is a complete and total failure on almost every level in the context of a campaign. I actually wonder if they really thought it would be fun to play dozens of settlement map battles given how long and grindy and boring they can be, and the city pathfinding and line of sight is absolutely terrible, especially in the context of unit sizes being on ultra now so you're trying to cram hundreds of guys through an alleyway while their formation AI completely breaks down and refuses to move the way you want constantly. The only army I have any fun doing these on is Slaanesh, because Slaanesh is the only army that's fast enough to really exploit how huge the maps are.
The autoresolve change was absolutely terrible. If you play on higher difficulties, they might as well have removed the button from the game. You'll take hundreds of casualties against a stack you can trivially smash, and you'll lose armies to a random half stack of peasants. For several factions(Slaanesh and Tzeentch stand out here), you can never press the button at all because your replenishment is so bad that the casualties it will give you are unsustainable. Yeah, I know, you can lower the difficulty before every time you autoresolve - that sucks poo poo.

I still think it's really, really funny how they spent an enormous amount of time and effort reworking the siege system to have way more complex maps and mechanics while seemingly forgetting that one of the primary reasons they moved to the simple one-front siege maps in TWW1 and 2 was because the AI was too stupid to handle anything more complex.

# ? Apr 13, 2022 19:01

Dandywalken: Feb 11, 2014

Kanos posted:

"Rome 2 was worse" is a completely irrelevant nothing statement. Rome 2 is a nearly decade old product and was made when the company had a lot less institutional knowledge and experience with the engine. It sure as gently caress should be worse!

The game is sorta playable in its current state, especially if you mod it, but I would rate it as worse than launch TWW2 in my own personal book, and it's hard for me to work up the enthusiasm to play it that much despite racking up hundreds of hours in TWW2 and still starting new campaigns every so often. My main beefs:
The crushed economy compared to TWW2 is good in that it helps combat brainless doomstacking, but it ends up feeling awful because it badly exacerbates the problem of "you're spamming the shittiest dogshit tier 1 troops everywhere until turn 70 because it's all you can afford for most factions. hope you like kossars/peasants!" and i'm bored to loving tears of it. I'd rather have high tier units limited by expandable caps than have them limited by a crushingly tight economy.
The siege/settlement rework is a complete and total failure on almost every level in the context of a campaign. I actually wonder if they really thought it would be fun to play dozens of settlement map battles given how long and grindy and boring they can be, and the city pathfinding and line of sight is absolutely terrible, especially in the context of unit sizes being on ultra now so you're trying to cram hundreds of guys through an alleyway while their formation AI completely breaks down and refuses to move the way you want constantly. The only army I have any fun doing these on is Slaanesh, because Slaanesh is the only army that's fast enough to really exploit how huge the maps are.
The autoresolve change was absolutely terrible. If you play on higher difficulties, they might as well have removed the button from the game. You'll take hundreds of casualties against a stack you can trivially smash, and you'll lose armies to a random half stack of peasants. For several factions(Slaanesh and Tzeentch stand out here), you can never press the button at all because your replenishment is so bad that the casualties it will give you are unsustainable. Yeah, I know, you can lower the difficulty before every time you autoresolve - that sucks poo poo.

I still think it's really, really funny how they spent an enormous amount of time and effort reworking the siege system to have way more complex maps and mechanics while seemingly forgetting that one of the primary reasons they moved to the simple one-front siege maps in TWW1 and 2 was because the AI was too stupid to handle anything more complex.

Agreed on all points. Thankfully, Age of Arghy will save us

# ? Apr 13, 2022 19:50

The Gunslinger: Jul 24, 2004; Do not forget the face of your father.; Fun Shoe

Lord Packinham posted:

I think Reddit is right and they have right to be, this isn�t a new game, WH2 and WH3 are essentially just expansion packs. This is the third game they have made where almost all the mechanics, factions and everything else has been done.

It is worse in almost every way, performance, gameplay, bugs. Like, I�m not going to flip out like Reddit is doing, I�m just going to wait. That said, this was a total faceplant with the hyped third game in a series. It�s totally fixable, I�m just worried it�s going to take far too long to get to parity with WH2 because there is no real reason to play WH3 right now.

Yeah I agree with your take on III. It's just not fun to me and seems worse than II in nearly every way. There are a few QOL additions contrasted against many regressions, bugs and poor design choices. It turns out that I don't enjoy Chaos factions anywhere near as much as I thought and the campaign itself sucks. Too much unfun bullshit and tweaking dumb stuff like negative traits doesn't make them a good idea in the first place. I also don't like most of the changes to settlement and siege mechanics, good ideas that were poorly executed.

Warhammer II had it's tedium for sure but generally I had the motivation to keep playing in one form or another. Even Vortex had it's moments and at least you could largely ignore the race or checkmate a faction if they made it before you. Anyways yeah I keep checking the thread periodically but can't be bothered with the current state of the game.

# ? Apr 13, 2022 20:29

Insurrectionist: May 21, 2007

Captain Beans posted:

What difficulty you on?

Very Hard/Normal

In general autoresolve feels fairly player unfriendly compared to the previous game, but I don't complain especially since I modded out minor settlement maps (but not Ogre camps like this one) so I don't have to deal with towers anyway. Ogres feel extra silly in autoresolve though. I guess two of my chariots did take visible damage before I won the battle, so perhaps that's what the game thinks is close.

E: The best mod I installed for the campaign was the one that gives you 1% replenishment per 10 Slaanesh corruption in local province, can't imagine playing early game Slaanesh with default values tbh.

Insurrectionist fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Apr 13, 2022

# ? Apr 13, 2022 20:39

Omnicarus: Jan 16, 2006

Kanos posted:

"Rome 2 was worse" is a completely irrelevant nothing statement. Rome 2 is a nearly decade old product and was made when the company had a lot less institutional knowledge and experience with the engine. It sure as gently caress should be worse!

The game is sorta playable in its current state, especially if you mod it, but I would rate it as worse than launch TWW2 in my own personal book, and it's hard for me to work up the enthusiasm to play it that much despite racking up hundreds of hours in TWW2 and still starting new campaigns every so often. My main beefs:
The crushed economy compared to TWW2 is good in that it helps combat brainless doomstacking, but it ends up feeling awful because it badly exacerbates the problem of "you're spamming the shittiest dogshit tier 1 troops everywhere until turn 70 because it's all you can afford for most factions. hope you like kossars/peasants!" and i'm bored to loving tears of it. I'd rather have high tier units limited by expandable caps than have them limited by a crushingly tight economy.
The siege/settlement rework is a complete and total failure on almost every level in the context of a campaign. I actually wonder if they really thought it would be fun to play dozens of settlement map battles given how long and grindy and boring they can be, and the city pathfinding and line of sight is absolutely terrible, especially in the context of unit sizes being on ultra now so you're trying to cram hundreds of guys through an alleyway while their formation AI completely breaks down and refuses to move the way you want constantly. The only army I have any fun doing these on is Slaanesh, because Slaanesh is the only army that's fast enough to really exploit how huge the maps are.
The autoresolve change was absolutely terrible. If you play on higher difficulties, they might as well have removed the button from the game. You'll take hundreds of casualties against a stack you can trivially smash, and you'll lose armies to a random half stack of peasants. For several factions(Slaanesh and Tzeentch stand out here), you can never press the button at all because your replenishment is so bad that the casualties it will give you are unsustainable. Yeah, I know, you can lower the difficulty before every time you autoresolve - that sucks poo poo.

I still think it's really, really funny how they spent an enormous amount of time and effort reworking the siege system to have way more complex maps and mechanics while seemingly forgetting that one of the primary reasons they moved to the simple one-front siege maps in TWW1 and 2 was because the AI was too stupid to handle anything more complex.

I'll add to this that there are a few mechanics that immediately just kill my desire to play the game when they pop up. It's amazed they made it in the final game:

The final soul grinder grind is a tedious, uninteresting mess of identical high tier monster stacks being thrown at you randomly.
The Tzeech faction mechanics are absolutely horrible to be on the recieving end of when all Tzeech factions set their eye on you, and they give minimal player feedback. Armies randomly appear, you get halted every few turns, etc. Getting halted while trying to finish a chaos realm is just bleh.
The survival battles are far too long and drawn out and identical to warrant having five of them in the main campaign. I did exactly one and then just autoresolved them.
The siege system still suffers from routing units fleeing into your super-deep fortresses, regaining morale, and then capping points. Great Bastion maps in particular suffer from this.
Some of the maps are so poorly designed that I don't think they were reviewed after initial design. In particular the maps where one side starts in a hole next to a shitload of unnavigable terrain features.

# ? Apr 13, 2022 21:14

toasterwarrior: Nov 11, 2011

You can say the Rome 2 launch is irrelevant but lmao at Warham 2 launch being better. Skaven having an extremely gimped pre-DLC roster, the worst loving battle maps in the entire Warhammer series, an AI battle bug where pursuing units lose track of their targets every thirty seconds (and the eventual fix only worked if you only kept a single unit on pursuit and also made sure they didn't come into contact with another retreating/pursuing unit for the duration, and this remains the behavior of WH2 pursuit/fleeing units to this day), Vortex Chaos armies spawning out of thin air and not even targeting your ritual cities, AI agent action spam (unlike WH3's, yes, they actually don't spam actions as much in WH3), christ I could go on.

It's thematically perfect that the Total War series inspires so much rose-colored glasses poo poo but of course the Risk map was totally better than the 3d campaign map, unironically

# ? Apr 13, 2022 21:16

Panfilo: Aug 27, 2011; Can't post for 10 days!

Yeah I can remember when load times were measured in minutes and mortal Empires turns took forever to sort through all the factions, pre potion of haste update.

Another unfun faction mechanic to be on the receiving end is nurgle plagues. Like I'm fine that factions have mechanics like this but you gotta have counterplay in some form (in this case, a way to immediately clear a Plague so you're not stuck in attrition for 8 turns).

# ? Apr 13, 2022 21:28

Lord Packinham: Dec 30, 2006; :<

toasterwarrior posted:

You can say the Rome 2 launch is irrelevant but lmao at Warham 2 launch being better. Skaven having an extremely gimped pre-DLC roster, the worst loving battle maps in the entire Warhammer series, an AI battle bug where pursuing units lose track of their targets every thirty seconds (and the eventual fix only worked if you only kept a single unit on pursuit and also made sure they didn't come into contact with another retreating/pursuing unit for the duration, and this remains the behavior of WH2 pursuit/fleeing units to this day), Vortex Chaos armies spawning out of thin air and not even targeting your ritual cities, AI agent action spam (unlike WH3's, yes, they actually don't spam actions as much in WH3), christ I could go on.

It's thematically perfect that the Total War series inspires so much rose-colored glasses poo poo but of course the Risk map was totally better than the 3d campaign map, unironically

Warhammer II at launch had tons of problems for sure, but it was fun to play and spells could wipe armies, as could ranged.

Like, the campaign is just straight not fun to play, whereas I had a decent time with the vortex. Settlement battles alone bring it below warhammer II. The realm of chaos is just the poo poo-icing on the poo poo-cake that is the campaign.

# ? Apr 13, 2022 21:34

Gonkish: May 19, 2004

This is what I get for writing posts in haste. What I should have said was "Rome 2's launch was worse but they turned it around with enough time." Something along those lines.

I had actually forgotten the problems that WH2 had at launch as well, which is probably more indicative of how CA eventually rights their wrongs... if they're still making money (3K fans understand that pain).

The long and the short of it is that the workshop is solving most of the subjective gameplay issues I was having thanks to being able to change/opt-out of any annoyances. That doesn't necessarily mean that things are GREAT, rather just that they're better. Reddit is being really hyperbolic, imo, regardless. Game has issues, but I don't think that they're insurmountable, in the long run. Hence the Rome 2 comment that I obviously phrased poorly.

# ? Apr 13, 2022 21:44

Omnicarus: Jan 16, 2006

I found the tutorial campaign far more enjoyable than the main campaign and I would've liked more campaign structures like that as opposed to the chaos realms campaigns.

# ? Apr 13, 2022 21:46

Panfilo: Aug 27, 2011; Can't post for 10 days!

I had really hoped the Chaos realms would be a parallel map layer you could hop between like the underworld in Heroes of Might and Magic III.

# ? Apr 13, 2022 21:57

Goatson: Oct 21, 2020; The real 12 points was the Thug-Friends we made along the way

I remember TW 2 and the vortex campaign being tedious, not good, unfun experience. Skaven roster was what it was, but the economy was close to what Nurgle has now. You couldn't autoresolve a single battle against lizardmen as even with three stacks the odds were heavily against you. Food mechanics were awful and you had to raid your own provinces to stay in green. I resolved my money problems by having one lord sail the seas hunting treasure islands. Played it through precisely twice, first with Queek, then much later again with Tehenhauin.

Am... am I the weird one? I like the new siege maps. They are much more stimulating and theres so much going on vs the old cubes and boxes and singular walls and streets you neer got to walk.

# ? Apr 13, 2022 21:58

Goatson: Oct 21, 2020; The real 12 points was the Thug-Friends we made along the way

Adding to this, I played the campaign with demon prince, once and don't know if I want to do it again with other factions any time soon. Cathay and Kislev bore me and Nurgle's start is so hellishly painful the first twenty turns sucked all joy out of me. Maybe N'kari. N'kari seems cool.

# ? Apr 13, 2022 22:01

Damn Dirty Ape: Jan 23, 2015; I love you Dr. Zaius

Goatson posted:

I remember TW 2 and the vortex campaign being tedious, not good, unfun experience. Skaven roster was what it was, but the economy was close to what Nurgle has now. You couldn't autoresolve a single battle against lizardmen as even with three stacks the odds were heavily against you. Food mechanics were awful and you had to raid your own provinces to stay in green. I resolved my money problems by having one lord sail the seas hunting treasure islands. Played it through precisely twice, first with Queek, then much later again with Tehenhauin.

Am... am I the weird one? I like the new siege maps. They are much more stimulating and theres so much going on vs the old cubes and boxes and singular walls and streets you neer got to walk.

No, WH2 was also bad at launch and it wasn't until patches and DLC that it started to shine. I think the main differences is the 'end' of TW:WH2 was pretty awesome and the dropoff was much bigger from 2 with DLC and tons of patches than it was from 1 to 2.

# ? Apr 13, 2022 22:24

toasterwarrior: Nov 11, 2011

I've honestly come around on WH3's settlement battles, but my main issue with them right now is applicable to every single Total Warhammer's siege battles and maps, from WH1 to WH3: the AI's inability to sally outside of their walls/settlement boundaries when outranged/outgunned means I can win every single one with a combat lord/hero tanking blobs while spellcasters and shooters destroy them all.

toasterwarrior fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Apr 13, 2022

# ? Apr 13, 2022 22:27

Arghy: Nov 15, 2012

Panfilo posted:

Yeah I can remember when load times were measured in minutes and mortal Empires turns took forever to sort through all the factions, pre potion of haste update.

Another unfun faction mechanic to be on the receiving end is nurgle plagues. Like I'm fine that factions have mechanics like this but you gotta have counterplay in some form (in this case, a way to immediately clear a Plague so you're not stuck in attrition for 8 turns).

I remember getting so much done in ME because i'd just walk away and do things while it loaded then come back and see that it wasn't finished. A good counter to plague as any faction is giving all lords 3 points into attrition resistance which also affects plagues. I went from losing tons of units to plagues to completely ignoring them.

# ? Apr 14, 2022 01:52

Tiler Kiwi: Feb 26, 2011

for me it's just that it's game three and ive already played a ton of wh2. the battles are just fine but the strategic layer is same as it ever was, mostly.

# ? Apr 14, 2022 01:54

Southpaugh: May 26, 2007; Smokey Bacon

New patch has tanked performance on my potato computer, oh well. Swings and roundabouts. Since elden ring came out ive played like 3 campaigns or well like 100 turns of three campaigns and I feel like I'm sitting hitting end turn not having anything to do in between jaunts into the chaos wastes. Going wide just adds management and risk. I prefer to consolidate the the primary provinces of my faction and subdue non-strategic minor factions. I've 80 hours or so in it at this point and the newness has worn off and I just don't want to play the ursun campaign anymore. I was having a great time securing kislev in my first campaign and then I goddamn lost at turn 150 or something cos goldtooth got da souls. Didn't realise I wouldn't be able to throw money at the when they were on the cusp of victory. Games tell me to ambush the army. 10 turns later after getting bored doing nothing at the chaos wastes ambush point I bring my army home and goldtooth wins next round.

After the novelty has worn off its pretty much strictly inferior to WH2, even if the diplomacy changes and QOL stuff mean this is the only hams I want to play. Gotta just put it on the shelf for a while. They'll have the worst of it fixed with the first DLC. NG+ elden ring for a while I suppose.

# ? Apr 14, 2022 03:39

Lugubrious!: Jun 12, 2001

The only mod that matters just got ported from WH2! - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2793906227

# ? Apr 14, 2022 04:33

Gonkish: May 19, 2004

Lugubrious! posted:

The only mod that matters just got ported from WH2! - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2793906227

This. This is glorious. :allears:

# ? Apr 14, 2022 04:45

Arghy: Nov 15, 2012

Holy poo poo so glad i held off on orgres until i got that mod.

# ? Apr 14, 2022 04:58

Panfilo: Aug 27, 2011; Can't post for 10 days!

Lugubrious! posted:

The only mod that matters just got ported from WH2! - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2793906227

This rules. A unit of maneaters should look like the Village People.

# ? Apr 14, 2022 05:01

Alamoduh: Sep 12, 2011

Has anyone played the SFO mod for 3 and can tell me if it adds enough variety to replay a campaign?

# ? Apr 14, 2022 05:42

toasterwarrior: Nov 11, 2011

WH3 SFO is barebones right now, just minor changes and laying the groundwork for actual content. You're better off making a grabbag of mods yourself in the meantime, which may end up actually being compatible with SFO because it's not that meaty yet.

# ? Apr 14, 2022 05:57

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

toasterwarrior posted:

You can say the Rome 2 launch is irrelevant but lmao at Warham 2 launch being better. Skaven having an extremely gimped pre-DLC roster, the worst loving battle maps in the entire Warhammer series, an AI battle bug where pursuing units lose track of their targets every thirty seconds (and the eventual fix only worked if you only kept a single unit on pursuit and also made sure they didn't come into contact with another retreating/pursuing unit for the duration, and this remains the behavior of WH2 pursuit/fleeing units to this day), Vortex Chaos armies spawning out of thin air and not even targeting your ritual cities, AI agent action spam (unlike WH3's, yes, they actually don't spam actions as much in WH3), christ I could go on.

It's thematically perfect that the Total War series inspires so much rose-colored glasses poo poo but of course the Risk map was totally better than the 3d campaign map, unironically

I played tons of Vortex campaigns at TWW2 launch and had a fair bit of fun, especially once I figured out that you could just ignore the entire mechanic if you didn't want to deal with it. Skaven had a weak roster with lots of gaps, it's true, but they were perfectly playable. Launch Skrolk spamming plague monks, plague priests, and plagueclaws was a legit incredibly strong faction even if it doesn't remotely hold a candle to the completely balance-free post-Ikit Skaven. Units in TWW3 are worst about pursuit than they were at launch TWW2 - try having some furies chase a fleeing infantry unit and watch them slowly fly after it as it crosses the map and maybe kill two guys without spam clicking.

# ? Apr 14, 2022 05:58

ErKeL: Jun 18, 2013

Panfilo posted:

I had really hoped the Chaos realms would be a parallel map layer you could hop between like the underworld in Heroes of Might and Magic III.

This would be sick but if they did that they have to go all out multiple layers. Old game I remember from the 90s has two layers. Above ground and below for tunneling units and units that could use the tunnels. Dwarves and Slaven would rock that.

# ? Apr 14, 2022 06:27

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

ErKeL posted:

This would be sick but if they did that they have to go all out multiple layers. Old game I remember from the 90s has two layers. Above ground and below for tunneling units and units that could use the tunnels. Dwarves and Slaven would rock that.

Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic style map layers would have been neat. And something like underground roads would have been a better representation of the underway that the teleport stance we got.

# ? Apr 14, 2022 08:11

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# ? Jun 1, 2024 18:31

toasterwarrior: Nov 11, 2011

I land my air units before having them pursue, it works much better.

# ? Apr 14, 2022 08:15

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Total Warhammer 3: Call a Jade Wizard... but not for me!

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