|
FishBulbia posted:Part of me wonders if we're seeing a WW1 moment and certain munitions have just made traditional tactics obsolete. It doesn't seem like it. From what we understand a lot of the issue is not that the tactics are obsolete but that they are poorly executing them due to lack of supplies/training/etc. It isn't that Russia was caught off guard by the Amazing Advancements and more that they are just unable to get the responses needed because of the aforementioned issues. It's easy to get into the mindset that Russia is a bumbling fool who can't do anything right but they have killed a whole lot of people and from what we understand the war wasn't a curbstomp only through a combination of Ukraine being more prepared and united than Russia expected, Russia being less prepared to deal with a victory that wasn't a literal "walk in and everyone surrenders", and the massive influx of additional supplies that make the second part worse. This isn't a reinventing of the wheel. It's just going to be a big ol' symbol to governments worldwide that they need to shovel more money into the Military Coffers.
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2022 01:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 05:33 |
|
|
i can't believe they really blew up the ship this time. i don't think russia can replace that thing even if they wanted to.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2022 01:29
|
|
|
cinci zoo sniper posted:ISW has a handy map for the alleged 36th marine brigade breakthrough earlier today. They would've gone from the white aisle on the left through the big green circle to the small circle on the right. Edit: Or maybe they would've been escaping from the north, and then I'm just getting confused with the timeline of events. What does it mean now that they've still been unable to take Mariupol? And where's the big push to the East?
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2022 01:36
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/litavrinm/status/1514398668593504256 Translating quote from the follow-up “Russian rocket artillery frequently makes targeting mistakes: drones get shot down by Russian air defence, and NATO’s satellite data frequently is imprecise or outdated”
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2022 01:38
|
|
|
Concerned Citizen posted:i can't believe they really blew up the ship this time. i don't think russia can replace that thing even if they wanted to. That's the double whammy of this. There's no way in hell they have the money, raw resources or high-end parts to replace an entire capital ship and its arsenal of high-end missiles. It had everything; anti-ship, surface to air and torpedoes. And even if they did, there's no way to get another one into the Black Sea now. Get shipwrecked Putin.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2022 01:38
|
|
|
Crosby B. Alfred posted:What does it mean now that they've still been unable to take Mariupol? And where's the big push to the East? Mariupol hasn’t been taken even according to Russians. What the bit I posted claims is that Russian encirclement of a part of the defending force of the city has failed - they’ve broken through and reconnected with the rest of the troops. That contradicts the recent narrative of mass surrender by the 36th marine brigade there.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2022 01:40
|
|
|
https://t.me/bmpd_cast/11362 Distracted by a bayraktar with their radars, the Moskva was hit with two neptunes. It caught fire and rolled, apparently they evacuated and the ammo detonated and it sunk.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2022 01:41
|
|
|
cinci zoo sniper posted:https://twitter.com/litavrinm/status/1514398668593504256 I'm not sure what this is saying. I can't tell whose drones are being shot down and whether this is bad for Russia or Ukraine.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2022 01:42
|
|
|
I appreciate whoever that did this. https://twitter.com/DuitsyWasHere/status/1514386291542016002
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2022 01:43
|
|
|
KillHour posted:I'm not sure what this is saying. I can't tell whose drones are being shot down and whether this is bad for Russia or Ukraine. Russia is saying that their ship totally just caught fire, and then adds, out of rhetorical nowhere, that “well actually Ukrainians can’t even shoot rockets that well, and their tactics for shooting rockets are crappy and countered by our noble warriors”.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2022 01:44
|
|
|
Risky Bisquick posted:https://t.me/bmpd_cast/11362 I hope the Bayrkatar was filming it and we can see it
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2022 01:45
|
|
|
They were renovating the Aurora last time I was in St. Petersburg, maybe they can send that down south to replace the Moskva.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2022 01:45
|
|
|
Atreiden posted:I appreciate whoever that did this. https://twitter.com/annmarie285/status/1514375456656699403
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2022 01:46
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:It doesn't seem like it. From what we understand a lot of the issue is not that the tactics are obsolete but that they are poorly executing them due to lack of supplies/training/etc. It isn't that Russia was caught off guard by the Amazing Advancements and more that they are just unable to get the responses needed because of the aforementioned issues. I don't see how a surface navy deals with potential barriages of long range, highly accurate missiles without some extreme EW capabilities or something. Same with with long range guided things like javelins.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2022 01:50
|
|
|
FishBulbia posted:I don't see how a surface navy deals with potential barriages of long range, highly accurate missiles without some extreme EW capabilities or something. Same with with long range guided things like javelins. Isn’t CIWS supposed to do that? Moskva itself has like half a dozen CIWS systems on it + whatever is carried by the surrounding vessels.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2022 01:52
|
|
|
FishBulbia posted:I don't see how a surface navy deals with potential barriages of long range, highly accurate missiles without some extreme EW capabilities or something. Same with with long range guided things like javelins. By screening with vessels specifically tasked with defense. It's not like these missile thingeys are some exceptional evolution in surface warfare.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2022 01:53
|
|
|
Sir Bobert Fishbone posted:They were renovating the Aurora last time I was in St. Petersburg, maybe they can send that down south to replace the Moskva. They can't, Turkey closed the Bosphorus to warships.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2022 01:53
|
|
|
cinci zoo sniper posted:Isn’t CIWS supposed to do that? Moskva itself has like half a dozen CIWS systems on it + whatever is carried by the surrounding vessels. Yes, it is not clear how a ship with multiple radars, enough anti air missiles to sink half a carrier, and 6 CIWS gets hit by two missiles. Just crazy https://mobile.twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1514400875401392132 Bad timing on this article https://mobile.twitter.com/Forbes/status/1514333307105906688
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2022 01:55
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2022 01:56
|
|
|
FishBulbia posted:I don't see how a surface navy deals with potential barriages of long range, highly accurate missiles without some extreme EW capabilities or something. Same with with long range guided things like javelins. I don't know much about naval warfare, but I'm fairly certain that most missile defense systems for ships is basically blowing up the missile with either bullets or another missile. I wonder if Yevmenov is going to have a heart-attack as well.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2022 01:57
|
|
|
Oh my God for the last time can we understand that while Ukraine has technologically better weapons. These weapons are not causing the Russian weapons to be rendered useless. It's about tactics tactics tactics tactics tactics tactics tactics tactics. They don't have the operational or organizational methods to make this thing work the way it could. Putin hosed The Invasion by pulling a Hitler and being way too involved in the individual troop movements. He never really appointed anybody to take control of the army that wasn't just a figurehead. They were not making combined arms strikes, infantry and tanks were hanging out in the open getting smoked. The ukrainians utilized small unit tactics, Superior planning, and surprise to combined with Russia's failure to have a strong nco/officer corp made the advantages that we now see. Heroism on the battlefield is another major factor in this. As I said on February 27th the Russians are using tanks as mobile bunkers more than they are actually using them as tanks. Unfortunately these mobile bunkers have a fatal flaw which we've talked about to end. Now this anti-ship attack is not another addition to the theory that warships and tanks are just ineffective weapons. They are still effective however the Russian ships don't have the same technological advances that the US military does. I mean we have AWACS on so many things that can mitigate a lot of anti-ship activity. Russia does not have this level of technology in their ships. (Please correct me if I'm wrong I'm really not studied in Russian Navy). Russia's ability to launch effective assaults is completely hampered by many factors. However if they're tactics and war planning were more successful this would be a completely different war. If they would have come from the East only they probably would have had a far better war. The main thrust of this thing was aimed at Kyiv. That's the issue, it became a complete and utter Quagmire especially with Ukraine using that loving word again tactics like area/route denial by flooding rivers, strategic use of drones, and deep battle. This entire war is about tactics and intelligence. A tank is still going to be an effective weapon if it's in the right hands. The thing is a javelin isn't as difficult to defeat as we may believe. Just because Russia is losing all their tanks from 50 years ago doesn't mean that tanks are ineffective. Tanks are probably going to be getting bigger and smaller at the same time, and they will also become more effective weapons over time. We haven't seen tanks with their own drone stacks yet. And what I mean by that is five or so multi-use drones that can assist the tank in its mission. So now let's talk boats. A missile cruiser normally is hanging fairly far away from shore. It's usually operating far away from the coast with a mission of air defense or coastal bombardment. It doesn't have much of a point in this war. And I wonder what it was doing. But either way, this is an anti-ship missile just destroying a ship. It's been happening for like 60 years. The technological advances can be countered given the right amount of research and non extremely corrupt MIC. Edit: after a little bit of research it does look like there is a Russian anti-missile defense system, ciws andlikely they should have relied on electronic countermeasures to prevent the missile strike. [Quote from reddit]CIWS are mostly last-ditch efforts at missile defense. Their missile interception success rate isn't great even against cold-war era missiles. The primary defense would be S-300F and OSA-M missiles then electronic countermeasures. Though I am unsure if S-300F can even engage low-flying targets such as Neptune. So its possible that OSA-M are the only effective countermeasure the Russians would have. I'm a bit skeptical of this attack until some sort of confirmation. But this is precisely the type of engagement the Neptune was built for. So absolutely hoping it turns out to be true.[/Quote]
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2022 01:58
|
|
|
Morrow posted:They can't, Turkey closed the Bosphorus to warships. The would be an interesting phone conversation to hear. Dimitri, Dimitri are you there? Yes Dimitri I can hear you now. Yes Dimitri I know they hosed your ship. No Dmitri we haven't changed our mind. Yes, Dimitri, I heard they distracted your ship with our drone.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2022 01:58
|
|
|
Risky Bisquick posted:Bad timing on this article Haha well not all bad: quote:The only Ukrainian forces that might have any realistic shot at Moskva are the new Neptune anti-ship missile batteries. The stealthy, radar-guided Neptune can strike ships as far away as 175 miles. Kiev has bought Turkish-made TB-2 drones and American-made radars that can spot targets for the Neptunes.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2022 02:02
|
|
|
Concerned Citizen posted:i can't believe they really blew up the ship this time. i don't think russia can replace that thing even if they wanted to. It was built in a shipyard in Mykolaiv, Ukraine in 1983, just to give you an idea how long it's been in service.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2022 02:02
|
|
|
Risky Bisquick posted:Yes, it is not clear how a ship with multiple radars, enough anti air missiles to sink half a carrier, and 6 CIWS gets hit by two missiles. Just crazy Well, we don't know how many missiles were fired. It was also late and in bad weather.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2022 02:05
|
|
|
Morrow posted:They can't, Turkey closed the Bosphorus to warships. Turns out this move was for the safety of Russian sailors.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2022 02:09
|
|
|
Deteriorata posted:And Whitefish Bay is only 15 more miles. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2022 02:12
|
|
|
After further research the Ukrainians really did a great loving job. This thing was an anti air beast and got floored.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2022 02:14
|
|
|
Risky Bisquick posted:Bad timing on this article The Russian Cruiser 'Moskva' Dominates the Black Sea Floor.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2022 02:15
|
|
|
WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:After further research the Ukrainians really did a great loving job. This thing was an anti air beast and got floored. Yeah and from what I've read it was likely providing a substantial amount of anti-air coverage for Russia's movements in the south of Ukraine. Makes those helicopters that Ukraine's got coming from the US a little more useful, among other things.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2022 02:16
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/b_nishanov/status/1514264377108705284?s=20&t=soNt5ux3Df4F-2iUxk5Rng
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2022 02:17
|
|
|
between medvedchuk getting himself captured and the flagship of the black sea fleet getting wrecked it feels like this is really starting to fall apart
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2022 02:19
|
|
|
Hannibal Rex posted:The Russian Cruiser 'Moskva' Dominates the Black Sea Floor. The cruiser dominates the Black Sea like Russia dominates the baltics. With black smoke
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2022 02:20
|
|
|
Hannibal Rex posted:The Russian Cruiser 'Moskva' Dominates the Black Sea Floor. thread title this if confirmed sunk
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2022 02:22
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/UkrWarReport/status/1514393226165329926?s=20&t=dI7wnx5Z9mAQ525TbN8OWg BTW, what's Ukrainian for "gotcha!" Young Freud fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Apr 14, 2022 |
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2022 02:23
|
|
|
Risky Bisquick posted:Yes, it is not clear how a ship with multiple radars, enough anti air missiles to sink half a carrier, and 6 CIWS gets hit by two missiles. Just crazy Bad timing on the tweet, the article is from January. Still informative.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2022 02:24
|
|
|
You guys know the Microsoft dude that was screaming developers? Well we have that guy he's in the ukrianian military screaming tactics
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2022 02:26
|
|
|
WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:You guys know the Microsoft dude that was screaming developers? Well we have that guy he's in the ukrianian military screaming tactics Ukraine is way more effective than Balmer, who basically crippled Microsoft due to his hatred of Open Source.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2022 02:35
|
|
|
Need a new thread title
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2022 02:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 05:33 |
|
|
Risky Bisquick posted:Yes, it is not clear how a ship with multiple radars, enough anti air missiles to sink half a carrier, and 6 CIWS gets hit by two missiles. Just crazy Hint: The defenses didn't work as well as suggested by literal advertising material.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2022 02:36
|
|
