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GhostofJohnMuir posted:why start a war if this is the condition of your forces? Corruption devolves into autocracy which devolves into dictatorship and dictators devolve into aggressive nutbags drunk on their own hypernationalist fiction, who devour the competency of their own senior government and must Always Project Strength
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Apr 14, 2022 03:41
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This is awesome. From what I have been reading there are apparently some clear indicators that Moskva has capsized and sunk. I have been hoping for something like this to happen to the Black Sea Fleet with no real expectation that it would.
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Apr 14, 2022 03:42
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Also on the off chance that Russia is telling the truth and it's their own fuckup, the fact that an ammunition magazine somehow exploded without any outside impact would be proof that God hates them and wants them to lose.
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Apr 14, 2022 03:45
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I expected this to happen almost immediately after someone inevitably dumps a bunch of surplus cold war ASMs on the Ukrainians. Even better that it was their own ASM system's debut.
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Apr 14, 2022 03:46
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It may not be sunk, maybe just sitting there a lifeless hunk on fire they they have to tow to shore
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Apr 14, 2022 03:48
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Youth Decay posted:Also on the off chance that Russia is telling the truth and it's their own fuckup, the fact that an ammunition magazine somehow exploded without any outside impact would be proof that God hates them and wants them to lose. Or it's just business as usual for the Russian Navy (i.e. the Kursk disaster) 
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Apr 14, 2022 03:49
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:my god, it disgusts me how the sickening tragedy of this war is combined with so many moments of utter farce. why start a war if this is the condition of your forces? it's like a repeat of the austro-hungarian empire eagerly launch a war it was in no position to win The single thread running through so very much of what has happened with Russia is that it's a country with a dominant state-run propaganda apparatus turned inward. Over time the people writing propaganda began believing it (as is almost inevitable), or performing it so continuously that the distinction between belief and action decayed. Its civil society's ability to parse information, especially contrary information, was completely poisoned, reaching continuously up to the highest levels and distorting every part of the decisionmaking process, suppurating it with falsehoods. This is such a farce because it's a government that, from the top down, is literally out of touch with reality. Warbadger posted:Not a big deal as a land strike platform, but it had the only modern long range air defenses and the most capable/numerous short range air defense system in the Black Sea fleet. Its the sort of thing you'd expect to be providing cover against aircraft and missiles for the frigates and corvettes that make up the rest of the fleet - or amphibs attempting a landing. Thanks, that's very helpful- and thanks to the others who responded as well. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Apr 14, 2022 |
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Apr 14, 2022 03:50
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Youth Decay posted:Also on the off chance that Russia is telling the truth and it's their own fuckup, the fact that an ammunition magazine somehow exploded without any outside impact would be proof that God hates them and wants them to lose. It was a modern ship in the sense that it's munitions should have been safe from ordinary shipboard fires. It's a vulnerability that's really well understood. So no, probably not just "a fire".
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Apr 14, 2022 03:50
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You also get situations like Japan in WW2 where their damage control set up was hilariously terrible.
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Apr 14, 2022 03:57
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the popes toes posted:It was a modern ship in the sense that it's munitions should have been safe from ordinary shipboard fires. It's a vulnerability that's really well understood. So no, probably not just "a fire". Those big exposed tubes running the length of the deck on both sides are thin metal shrouds covering huge missiles with a ton of rocket fuel and explosives inside. The huge number of SAM and gun systems it's bristling with means the ship is also packed full of smaller magazines. It's about as much of a powderkeg as one gets with modern warships.
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Apr 14, 2022 03:57
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It isn't sunk, it's victory seriously damagedm.
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Apr 14, 2022 04:00
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Telsa Cola posted:You also get situations like Japan in WW2 where their damage control set up was hilariously terrible. Opening vents to blow all the aviation fuel fumes out of that aircraft carrier is exactly the sort of thing I can see Russia doing.
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Apr 14, 2022 04:00
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Staluigi posted:Corruption devolves into autocracy which devolves into dictatorship and dictators devolve into aggressive nutbags drunk on their own hypernationalist fiction, who devour the competency of their own senior government and must Always Project Strength Machiavelli posted:For a Monarchy readily becomes a Tyranny, an Aristocracy an Oligarchy, while a Democracy tends to degenerate into Anarchy. So that if the founder of a State should establish any one of these three forms of Government, he establishes it for a short time only, since no precaution he may take can prevent it from sliding into its contrary, by reason of the close resemblance which, in this case, the virtue bears to the vice.
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Apr 14, 2022 04:06
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I just did some quick wiki-pediaing and it looks as though all of Russias largest warships (meaning destroyers and cruisers) were built during the cold war. The Moskva was one of them. So id say it's highly likely it won't be replaced especially with the Russian economy in the toilet now.
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Apr 14, 2022 04:07
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Warbadger posted:I expected this to happen almost immediately after someone inevitably dumps a bunch of surplus cold war ASMs on the Ukrainians. Even better that it was their own ASM system's debut. Here is the thing, if the Russian Navy were a smart and well trained navy, then they should have defeated an attack from two incoming ASMs--doubly so if they were facing Cold War surplus ASMs; however, the Russians appear to have been tricked into trying to engage a Bk2. The Ukrainians first flew in a Bk2 and got the Moskva to engage it--no word on whether or not Moskva had escorts, but she should have had. That's when the Ukrainians fired two Neptune ASMs from what is apparently Ukraine's only in-service Neptune missile battery. A capital ship like Moskva plus her escorts should be able to track and counter multiple inbound ASMs or aircraft. In this case though, the crew of Moskva and any of her consorts were so 'focused' on engaging the Ukrainian drone that they were unable to engage the two incoming Neptune missiles. This is a demonstration to me that the Russian Navy is in about the same condition as the Russian Army and just as prepared for war. As a side note the Russian announcement of an ammunition explosion is hilarious. If people believed this story it might make the Russian Navy out to look worse than "the Ukrainians sunk our ship" does. Russia's alternative narrative is basically "we admit our crew training is so bad, the conditions of our ships so terrible, and our ammunition unstable as Moskva suffered a 'fire'--in wartime service--and her crew was unable to contain that fire. This random fire was not caused by Ukraine, but rather by us (on accident), then reached Moskva's magazines--the ship blew up. I repeat the Ukrainian military did not sink our ship, our navy is just so terrible we own goaled our own capital ship." ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 04:11 on Apr 14, 2022 |
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Apr 14, 2022 04:07
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Another dawn is breaking in Kyiv, and it's still Ukrainian.   
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Apr 14, 2022 04:11
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Deteriorata posted:Another dawn is breaking in Kyiv, and it's still Ukrainian. Those stamps are going to be worth a fair bit of money I’d say.
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Apr 14, 2022 04:16
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Mariupol hasn’t been taken even according to Russians. What the bit I posted claims is that Russian encirclement of a part of the defending force of the city has failed - they’ve broken through and reconnected with the rest of the troops. That contradicts the recent narrative of mass surrender by the 36th marine brigade there. Is this a huge big deal? I'm under the impression that it was earlier thought there was no way Mariupol would make it along with it needed to secure the land bridge to Crimea. And when is this big Donbas push supposed to occur? If that fails... Putin didn't gain much at all and the whole freaking war isn't just a Ukrainian victory but an enormous and embarrassing defeat for Russia.
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Apr 14, 2022 04:19
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Risky Bisquick posted:They sunk it Ukraine's coastal defense HQ earlier tonight: https://youtu.be/i0xOSxgs6w8
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Apr 14, 2022 04:33
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RIA confirming fire and ammunition detonation
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Nenonen posted:Ukraine's coastal defense HQ earlier tonight: quote:Moscow 
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Apr 14, 2022 04:40
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ik edit:  corpseshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBah5HNknLM (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) Somebody fucked around with this message at 14:33 on Apr 14, 2022 |
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Apr 14, 2022 04:49
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gay picnic defence posted:Those stamps are going to be worth a fair bit of money I’d say. Nah it's always the stuff that shouldn't be valuable that ends up being rare and expensive to collectors. Everyone knows the original set of "Russian Warship go gently caress yourself" stamps are going to be valuable in ten years so everyone will be putting them in climate controlled boxes and framing them in a part of the house that doesn't get direct sunlight. Which lowers the value So paradoxically if you can find a "For valorous performance in the liberation of Ukraine" medal or medal citation in a trash can somewhere west of Moscow then historians and rich history buffs will pay any feasible price for it.
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Apr 14, 2022 05:08
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I read unconfirmed tweets that the Moskva was hit by Ukrainian anti-ship missiles. I come back a few hours later and see it confirmed. Despite the undoubtedly huge loss of life this is a great day. I am guessing poor area deployment, awful crew training and good intel lead to this moment. I wonder how this will effect Russian operations in the Black Sea in the future? I am actually shocked a capital ship is now a tomb in my life time.
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Apr 14, 2022 05:12
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ZombieLenin posted:Here is the thing, if the Russian Navy were a smart and well trained navy, then they should have defeated an attack from two incoming ASMs--doubly so if they were facing Cold War surplus ASMs; however, the Russians appear to have been tricked into trying to engage a Bk2. The Ukrainians first flew in a Bk2 and got the Moskva to engage it--no word on whether or not Moskva had escorts, but she should have had. That's when the Ukrainians fired two Neptune ASMs from what is apparently Ukraine's only in-service Neptune missile battery. Should be able to, according to estimations and public information provided by the Russian military and weapons manufacturers. But... the predecessor Soviet CIWS system had problems tracking low altitude targets. So did practically every navalized SAM aside from the Tor. The successor CIWS system replacing that was then itself slated to be replaced after only a decade in service, apparently due to poor performance. It's replacement was a new navalized Pantsir system. Then the Pantsir saw leaked reports of problems with low altitude targets right before ending up blown up a bunch of times by small UCAVs and loitering munitions in actual combat - the exact sorts of things it was supposed to specialize in shooting down. This particular ship even took one in the chin from the virtually nonexistent Georgian Navy, so considering the above I'm hardly surprised to see it clobbered by the first guy with a few proper low altitude ASMs to chuck at it. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 05:40 on Apr 14, 2022 |
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Apr 14, 2022 05:14
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I can't believe you're all falling for this sunken cruiser nonsense! It's actually a brilliant Russian strategy because who would ever look for a surface ship underwater?
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Apr 14, 2022 05:17
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Is the Moskva the first naval capital ship to be destroyed since the Falklands war?
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Apr 14, 2022 05:24
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CommieGIR posted:They were using Anti-Ship missiles as artillery as well I appreciate this reference
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Apr 14, 2022 05:29
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CommieGIR posted:Ukraine is way more effective than Balmer, who basically crippled Microsoft due to his hatred of Open Source. I still remember being on an Azure project and needing to use BIND because Windows DNS didn't have the feature I needed, and management insisted that I get it approved by a MS solutions architect because "Microsoft hates OSS." Hearing the SA go "What? No we LOVE Open Source Software! Where did you hear that we don't love open source!? THEY'RE LIARS LIAAAARS. OPPEEENNSSSSOOURRCCEE! LINUX! WOOOO!" was one of the funniest meetings I've ever sat through. To this day I still run into brain-poisoned tech people who have a horrific allergy to anything open / closed source depending on their specific ideology though. Balmer's holy war hosed up IT something fierce. KillHour fucked around with this message at 05:34 on Apr 14, 2022 |
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Apr 14, 2022 05:32
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Charliegrs posted:Is the Moskva the first naval capital ship to be destroyed since the Falklands war? Does a dude single-handedly burning down the USS Bonhomme Richard count?
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Apr 14, 2022 05:35
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gay picnic defence posted:Those stamps are going to be worth a fair bit of money I’d say. There are etsy stores selling them but who knows if they're real. Anyone know where to buy legit ones? They're going on Christmas cards next year, next to the US stamps.
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Apr 14, 2022 05:42
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You can (theoretically) buy them from Ukraine post website. Warning, it is incredibly slow https://www.ukrposhta.ua/en then use the online shop link under philately taqueso fucked around with this message at 05:50 on Apr 14, 2022 |
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Apr 14, 2022 05:47
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KillHour posted:There are etsy stores selling them but who knows if they're real. Anyone know where to buy legit ones? They're going on Christmas cards next year, next to the US stamps. http://pm.ukrposhta.ua/nishop.php
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Apr 14, 2022 05:48
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https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1514408200166068228
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Apr 14, 2022 05:54
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taqueso posted:You can (theoretically) buy them from Ukraine post website. Warning, it is incredibly slow Seems like as good a way as any to support the Ukrainian economy.
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Apr 14, 2022 05:58
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gay picnic defence posted:Seems like as good a way as any to support the Ukrainian economy. And the fact that one goon even got a package that was mailed from Dnipro two days before the invasion. 
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Apr 14, 2022 06:02
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Captain Kosmos posted:https://twitter.com/IntelDoge/status/1514309026611351556?t=n1Hk0KilXpQjG-HtfMyBNg&s=19 Praise Satan!  Finally a good morning to wake up to. Too bad it wasn't done by Ukrainians it was just again the incompetence of Russians, and they are going to use the sea water again to put out the fire. Can't find that cope posting about the sunk landing craft, which obviously was just flooded with seawater to prevent the fire to spread there. They just need to pump out the water, and it's good as new.
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Apr 14, 2022 06:06
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Blitz of 404 Error posted:It may not be sunk, maybe just sitting there a lifeless hunk on fire they they have to tow to shore Anyone know how to fix water skies onto a tractor? Asking for a Ukranian friend 
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Apr 14, 2022 06:15
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If this is true, the repercussions are going to be brutal. We saw how they behaved in Bucha with no resistance.
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Apr 14, 2022 06:16
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https://twitter.com/darth/status/1514414551814459392
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Apr 14, 2022 06:16
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https://twitter.com/ItsBorys/status/1514408549631381507
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Apr 14, 2022 06:27
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