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sweet geek swag posted:I think he was saying that the legend was conflating events that were thousands of years apart, not that the events were actually contemporary. Yes this, that the moogles legends of fleeing the Dragonsong War and fleeing Heaven are separate events. But being Oral Histories at best have become combined into a single tale of Good King Moggle Mog.
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Apr 17, 2022 18:30
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Calling it an epilogue could also just mean that it's a story about dealing with the aftermath of the Zodiark and Hydaelyn situation, which... well, it is. While it's not clear exactly what the Twelve are doing, it is clear that it's a reaction of some kind to the power vacuum left by Hydaelyn's death. FFXIV's writers love writing a 'see what people do the day after the final battle' kind of epilogue, that's what most of the .1 and .2 MSQs are. Maybe this is just that, but on a deific scale.
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Apr 17, 2022 18:35
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I thought they were auspices because when they show up in Rhalgr's Reach in animal form it plays that one song that always plays in the Doman Enclave. Was that song written for Stomblood or is it older and just happened to be used there?
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Apr 17, 2022 18:57
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Here's my current wrong theory about the gods. I think their animal forms are their true, original forms. They were either concepts or familiars created by ancients, and they managed to escape the sundering because the Elpis-like place where they were created got phase-shifted into its own little pocket dimension somehow. In the thousands of years hence, they evolved beyond their animal selves, gained sentience, and adopted idealized forms based on ancient people they remembered, like a dog or cat that gains intelligence and immortality would remember its long lost owner. And they've been watching the world, waiting for someone they recognize to return.
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Apr 17, 2022 18:59
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FuturePastNow posted:Here's my current wrong theory about the gods. I think their animal forms are their true, original forms. They were either concepts or familiars created by ancients, and they managed to escape the sundering because the Elpis-like place where they were created got phase-shifted into its own little pocket dimension somehow. In the thousands of years hence, they evolved beyond their animal selves, gained sentience, and adopted idealized forms based on ancient people they remembered, like a dog or cat that gains intelligence and immortality would remember its long lost owner. And they've been watching the world, waiting for someone they recognize to return. Man, especially after the isghardian role quest, it'd be loving hilarious to go to one of the priests and go "Yeah FYI your god was just some dude's pet cat."
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Apr 17, 2022 19:01
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CJ posted:I thought they were auspices because when they show up in Rhalgr's Reach in animal form it plays that one song that always plays in the Doman Enclave. Was that song written for Stomblood or is it older and just happened to be used there? IIRC it's Iroha's Theme from XI.
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Apr 17, 2022 19:02
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I wonder whether Twelve (each god representing some aspect of aether) are somehow related to Twelve Wonders (facility in Elpis tasked with balancing aspects of aether). Maybe they're some arcane entities or familiars used in Twelve Wonders for aether balancing that were post-sundering gifted soul and became 'gods' and started roleplaying Convocation.
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Apr 17, 2022 19:06
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Come to think of it, given that it's just like, a rule of the world that if an animal lives for a thousand years they get all sorts of crazy powers, I wonder if that applies to sentient people as well. The shades in fake amaurot thought we were plausibly ancient children. Perhaps the only reason we can't use creation magic (given a sufficient external source of aether) is that we're mortal and die before we hit the auspice level that marked ancient adulthood (since they're apparently unaging and would easily live a thousand years if nothing killed them). Definitely in the realm of fanfic and I don't expect that connection to be explored but it just occurred to me.
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Apr 17, 2022 19:08
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Ibblebibble posted:IIRC it's Iroha's Theme from XI. Not that, this one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rxm50XrcPzM
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Apr 17, 2022 19:08
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Krile can talk to animals, right? I was expecting something out of that when she met the baby opo opo
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Apr 17, 2022 19:14
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tbf if you're going to worship anything it might as well be an auspice
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Apr 17, 2022 19:58
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TheWorldsaStage posted:Krile can talk to animals, right? I was expecting something out of that when she met the baby opo opo I think she mentioned it as being a rumor that wasn't actually true.
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Apr 17, 2022 20:20
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I personally don't like the theory of the Twelve being auspicies because building this mystery around their true identity and then going "yeah they're just really old animals" would be quite a letdown. There's also another detail: in the raid there's the trash boss Rhalgr's Emmisary, who is birdlike. And then we see Rhalgr in the form of a raven. I feel like they're both the same being, and the animal/monsters are just familiars they use to go incognito. Unless they explicitly said they were transformed, I kinda forgot the dialog already.
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Apr 17, 2022 20:25
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Me just now: "Oh hey! You're the 'Thal's balls' guy!"
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Apr 17, 2022 20:32
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readingatwork posted:Me just now: "Oh hey! You're the 'Thal's balls' guy!" He (they?) even has a ball based attack in the fight 
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Apr 17, 2022 20:46
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Another thing to consider is that the Twelve might have something to do with the Allagans, since they make an explicit point of showing you that, wherever or whenever the Omphalos is, you can see the Crystal Tower from it.
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Apr 17, 2022 21:04
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Fister Roboto posted:Another thing to consider is that the Twelve might have something to do with the Allagans, since they make an explicit point of showing you that, wherever or whenever the Omphalos is, you can see the Crystal Tower from it. they made the explicit point that twelve worship predated the allagan empire. If there's a connection, it's more likely to be to silvertear lake than the crystal tower.
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Apr 17, 2022 21:08
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TheWorldsaStage posted:Krile can talk to animals, right? I was expecting something out of that when she met the baby opo opo She also has the Echo, so she can understand all spoken languages the same way the WoL can, but this would require the animal to be able to speak a language on its own. It also requires them to have a soul, because it works via soul-based shenanigans of some sort.
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Apr 17, 2022 21:23
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The geography of the zone doesn't really work. The Crystal Tower is to the North, and the big dome in Coerthas Central is to the West. The Crystal Tower in actuality is on the South end of Mor Dhona, and the entirety of Coerthas is North of Mor Dhona, but the dome in particular is to the North West of the Crystal Tower. Another thing about being tied to the third era - there are basically no surviving records of anything before. Twelve worship could have been minutes after the sundering and we wouldn't know.
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Apr 17, 2022 21:25
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:The geography of the zone doesn't really work. The Crystal Tower is to the North, and the big dome in Coerthas Central is to the West. The Crystal Tower in actuality is on the South end of Mor Dhona, and the entirety of Coerthas is North of Mor Dhona, but the dome in particular is to the North West of the Crystal Tower. That dome is in northern mor dhona.
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Apr 17, 2022 21:33
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Failboattootoot posted:That dome is in northern mor dhona. Forgot about that one. That would still put the Crystal Tower to the South, but it's basically straight Northward from the zone.
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Apr 17, 2022 21:35
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the third era line seems to have confused more than it helped because I feel like about 50% of people I see citing it here and elsewhere read it to mean "started in the third era" when it pretty clearly means "was well underway by the third era." e: also if the dome is to the west by the map, and the tower is to the north, then it seems like just an issue of how they oriented the zone in the minimap. If you treat the dome as north, which it ought to be, then the tower is to the east, which matches the mor dhona map. the physical positioning seems fine. Valentin fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Apr 17, 2022 |
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Apr 17, 2022 21:37
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Guessing that the final boss members of the Twelve with Unique songs will be Llymlaen and Nophica as they are the Patron gods of the other two original city states.
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Apr 17, 2022 21:58
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yeah the first three eras are completely blank slates. Recorded history basically started with Allag. Like scholars only found out for sure that the first calamity was wind after the events of HW when they were able to talk with the moogles at Moghome to get confirmation
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Apr 17, 2022 22:00
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readingatwork posted:Me just now: "Oh hey! You're the 'Thal's balls' guy!" https://twitter.com/SaintNurse/status/1514724233166815252
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Apr 17, 2022 22:19
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MonsterEnvy posted:Guessing that the final boss members of the Twelve with Unique songs will be Llymlaen and Nophica as they are the Patron gods of the other two original city states. Considering we almost certainly have Oschon walking around with us he's probably the final boss, and never underestimate this game's Ul'dah bias.
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Apr 17, 2022 22:30
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Blockhouse posted:yeah the first three eras are completely blank slates. Recorded history basically started with Allag.  There are apparently cave paintings dating back to the First Astral Era (whether they're in-game or not), but that might be the extent of what's hard record left from that age. The scholarly theory is that it was essentially the Stone Age up to a point where where kingdoms rose and eventually widespread warfare resulted in the Second Calamity (of Lightning). During the Second Umbral Era, the first spells are believed to have been used, born of faith in a higher power. The Second Astral Era is said to be a time of widespread religious fervor, with construction, painting, and goldsmithing all reaching more formal discipline in this time. Theocracies eventually clashed, and all those nasty witch hunts and inquisitions and holy wars and such lead to the Third Calamity (of Fire). We know plenty about the Third Astral Era, but the Fourth Astral Era we again don't have much of a record for - it seems that people went back to religion in this time period, but characterized more by willful ignorance and destruction of surviving texts and such from the Allagan age, with only holy scripture preserving information (this is actually the foundation of the Eorzean alphabet). But due to the lack of recorded history from the Fourth Astral, nobody's really sure how the Fifth Calamity (of Ice) got underway. And then of course, the Fifth is the time of Amdapor/Nym/Mhach and such, and of course the Sixth is essentially modern history (since Bahamut didn't reset civilization like prior calamities). Hogama fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Apr 18, 2022 |
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Apr 17, 2022 22:36
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:The geography of the zone doesn't really work. The Crystal Tower is to the North, and the big dome in Coerthas Central is to the West. The Crystal Tower in actuality is on the South end of Mor Dhona, and the entirety of Coerthas is North of Mor Dhona, but the dome in particular is to the North West of the Crystal Tower. Knowing exactly when they came from might help a bit. My hypothesis is that they, or some folklore version that got canonized later, existed in the First Astral Era. The Second Umbral calamity was lightning aspected, and it was more or less blamed on angry gods, so I think that's when Rhalgr got his Destroyer rep.
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Apr 17, 2022 23:04
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Hellioning posted:Considering we almost certainly have Oschon walking around with us he's probably the final boss, and never underestimate this game's Ul'dah bias.
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Apr 17, 2022 23:05
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Part of me wants the explanation of the 12 just to be "They're gods. Deal with it". 
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Apr 18, 2022 01:40
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Itzena posted:Part of me wants the explanation of the 12 just to be "They're gods. Deal with it". 
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Apr 18, 2022 02:05
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The dome is meant to be Carteneau I thought. Anyway whilst the actual compass directions are off, if Omphalos was floating above Silvertear, then the dome would be to the left of the Crystal Tower.
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Apr 18, 2022 02:10
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So is the creepy Reaper at the end Zemus, given the earlier showing of Golbez and the Archfiends.
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Apr 18, 2022 03:04
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Thus far, we've been given no inclination to assume there's a relationship between that Voidsent and Golbez, unless I'm misremembering where both scenes took place.
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Apr 18, 2022 03:09
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:Thus far, we've been given no inclination to assume there's a relationship between that Voidsent and Golbez, unless I'm misremembering where both scenes took place. Both took place in the void. So just guessing.
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Apr 18, 2022 03:12
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MonsterEnvy posted:So is the creepy Reaper at the end Zemus, given the earlier showing of Golbez and the Archfiends. From what someone has told me, their model does have an internal name. It's Zero. Time to beat them up and get back our loving Ishgard houses!
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Apr 18, 2022 03:14
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https://i.imgur.com/7GC3pOW.mp4
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Apr 18, 2022 07:00
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Yeah, that mechanic is rough. Of course in my only attempt so far I was AFK at the time and my alliance just did it without me, so.
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Apr 18, 2022 07:05
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Huh, when I did it I didn't even notice the giant scales. I just thought we had to work it out by eye alone.
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Apr 18, 2022 09:49
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The party I was in just killed the adds on one side of the arena and then stacked on the other side
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Apr 18, 2022 10:01
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