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muscles like this! posted:Conversation in another thread made me realize that I know the basics of the story but not the actual details so, how exactly did the character of Patsy Walker go from teen comics to a superhero? From Steve Englehart who brought her back: "struck my fan's eye by including her in the Marvel Universe. ... I thought it would be cool to bring her in as a real character, with things to do. Part of my 'training' as a Marvel writer was writing romance stories and Westerns, but Patsy [Walker] was defunct as a comic by the time I got there. ... Still, as a fan, I had collected everything Marvel, including Patsy Walker and Patsy and Hedy ... so I knew them as characters." And he got that because she had a cameo in FF Annual #3. So basically because Steve took a shine to her because he remembered her.
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Apr 14, 2022 17:38
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Patsy Walker comics had been published more of less continuously since the 1940s, and when Reed and Sue got married in 1965 she crossed over into the "Marvel Universe" when she was a guest at their wedding. That was more of an Easter Egg than anything to do with superheroes, and in fact Patsy Walker/Patsy & Hedy were still running at the time. The Patsy "teen" books stopped publication a year or two later, and fast forward five years or so and Steve Englehart decides to introduce Patsy and her boyfriend (now husband) Buzz as supporting characters in his Beast serial in Amazing Adventures. Her husband was working for the sinister Brand Corporation trying to out Beast as a mutant, and she was the sympathetic wife who was worried her husband was taking things too far. I don't believe there was any explicit reference to the old comics at the time, it was more of a wink to readers. A few years later when Englehart takes over Avengers and brings his version of Beast over to join the team, Patsy Walker follows. The way she becomes a superhero is that she finds out Beast's secret identity and goes "cool, I love superheroes, let me be one and I will keep your secret!" And so she does. She did superhero stuff with little to no mention of her 'old life' (aside from here now ex-husband and fellow teen comic character Buzz eventually becoming a supervillain in Defenders) for the next twenty years or so before being driven mad and pushed into suicide by her husband Daimon Hellstrom in order to clear the way for Hellstrom to date a cool young goth chick (thanks Warren Ellis!) Kurt Busiek resurrected her in his Avengers run, which led to a 2000 mini-series written by Steve Englehart (again) which served as a reintroduction/recap of the character and was the first thing to fold in her golden age Teen Model stories into the Hellcat version of the character. This was once again mostly ignored until the Kate Leth series from awhile back. Stated more succinctly above, but even more succinctly: Steve Englehart thought it would be fun.
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Apr 14, 2022 17:48
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muscles like this! posted:Conversation in another thread made me realize that I know the basics of the story but not the actual details so, how exactly did the character of Patsy Walker go from teen comics to a superhero? Patsy and Hedy had a cameo appearance in the third Fantastic Four Annual, which established them as existing in the Marvel Universe; Steve Englehart noticed that issue, and added her to the cast of his Beast feature in Amazing Adventures (same storyline that had Hank go furry, IIRC). He was kinda planting the seeds for Patsy As Superhero, showing Patsy estranged from her husband and desiring more out of life - but that feature was shitcanned after three issues, so it ended up not going anywhere. She was reintroduced in the Avengers, tagging along with Hank, and ended up rescuing the team; along the way, she picked up the costume and the name Hellcat - which gets more convoluted, because originally the costume belonged to Greer Grant Nelson, aka The Cat. The codename 'Hellcat' had originally been proposed as a good alias for Greer, but then she got all furry (this is kind of a theme) and started calling herself Tigra instead; so, basically, there was this perfectly good costume and codename just laying around, and Patsy picked them up. The bit about Patsy's romance comics being an in-universe fictional story written by her mother gets spun up a little later, in 1980; by this point she's a regular member of the Defenders, and I guess people got tired of others asking "wait, you mean the girl from the romance comics?" .... So basically the upshot of it is "the character showed up in an FF Annual as a cheeky little joke but then people took the joke seriously"
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Apr 14, 2022 23:40
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Has Apocalypse ever had a battle with the Sentinels?
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Apr 16, 2022 15:48
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bessantj posted:Has Apocalypse ever had a battle with the Sentinels? During AoA there was a conflict but he didn't directly fight them.
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Apr 16, 2022 16:08
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Rhyno posted:During AoA there was a conflict but he didn't directly fight them. I'm looking forward to getting to AoA. I'm still currently reading around early 92 on MU so some way to go yet.
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Apr 16, 2022 16:11
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Do Marvel’s different multiverse focuses ever interact? Stuff like there being a Spider-Man in every dimension and there being a Captain Britain in every dimension Kind of similarly, do galactic empires like the Shiar interact much with the Kree or Skrulls, or are they mostly just left to the X books
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Apr 17, 2022 04:29
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thetoughestbean posted:Do Marvel’s different multiverse focuses ever interact? Stuff like there being a Spider-Man in every dimension and there being a Captain Britain in every dimension Aside from that, I think it's more localized to storyline stuff. Generally one-offs or arcs, but it is kind of weird how some of that just gets absorbed into the mainline for no real reason. Dark Beast and Sugarman are relics from Age of Apocalypse, Rachel Summers is a DoFP oddity, and I forget if Blink/Nocturne from the Exiles still retain their Exiles baggage. Someone writes a story where Logan meets a version of himself that has Optic Claws or someshit and 10 years later they become a member of the X-League just because. Oh yeah, read Exiles if you want a bunch of multiverse characters crossing over stuff. It's mostly fun. quote:Kind of similarly, do galactic empires like the Shiar interact much with the Kree or Skrulls, or are they mostly just left to the X books
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Apr 17, 2022 04:42
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thetoughestbean posted:Do Marvel’s different multiverse focuses ever interact? Stuff like there being a Spider-Man in every dimension and there being a Captain Britain in every dimension Heck, Spider-UK was a Spider-Man and a Captain Britain The Shi'ar conflict with the Kree set up the Avengers storyline Operation: Galactic Storm. God, I hate that name for an event
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Apr 17, 2022 05:26
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:Heck, Spider-UK was a Spider-Man and a Captain Britain Spider-Man would choose the Amulet of Right over the Sword of Might
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Apr 17, 2022 06:30
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Devils Reign had a tie-in mini where Doc sock recruited variants of himself from across the multiverse.
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Apr 17, 2022 14:12
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OK, so I was watching this video about The Problem With NFTs and there's a section where the creators of an NFT collection called "NFTits" is proposing to create a comic book adaptation of their... collection. Starting here (note: pixel art boobies) we're shown an excerpt from a breathless Discord post, stating:quote:There is a 30 million market of comics lovers in the US So... this is all obviously complete nonsense, but I was curious. What are the actual figures?
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Apr 17, 2022 15:59
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30 million is definitely a huge over-estimate. NPD has 2020's sale of "adult graphic novels" at 16.2mm units for 2020. You'd have to nearly double that to include kids and assume every reader is buying exactly one book per year, which is obviously not true. You can probably get to that number if you add in people who read strictly via piracy, but I think it's reasonable to not include people who don't buy things in your market for buying things. I could see an average comic buying spending $20 per week, but certainly not per book. I'll take that as a typo. Comichron has the total North American sales for 2020 at $1.28b. Manga may be more popular (I feel like this is a claim that comes up but isn't generally validated), but it's certainly not going to be 23 times more popular on a dollar amount. My guess: they found some random numbers that may have some truth, but aren't actually connected in any meaningful way and used them.
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Apr 17, 2022 16:14
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The entire North American Book Market -- which would include anything sold through bookstores, Amazon, ebooks, textbooks, etc. etc. etc. -- hovers around $25 billion dollars a year. The comics market is well over a billion dollars a year when you factor in all of the different channels, but monthly single issues of comics are under a quarter of that, in terms of "people going to a shop and getting the new issue of [comic]" versus buying physical/digital trades, manga, original graphic novels, etc. So if I understand that dumb crypto person correctly, the 1% they're trying to capture is probably close to 100% of "people buying new single issues of comics"
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Apr 17, 2022 16:26
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Crypto dude bad at basic economics and math, that can't be possible.
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Apr 17, 2022 19:12
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Endless Mike posted:Comichron has the total North American sales for 2020 at $1.28b. Manga may be more popular (I feel like this is a claim that comes up but isn't generally validated), but it's certainly not going to be 23 times more popular on a dollar amount. This is anecdotal so it’s only one point of data but I work at a fairly popular Barnes & Noble and manga is our best selling section. Chainsaw Man volume 1 is the best selling book in the store, only occasionally beaten out by It Ends With Us by Colleen Hoover. It’s funny, I don’t have the numbers in front of me but I feel like graphic novels for kids or in YA tend to sell better than our general graphic novel section. The book Teeth and its sequels do especially well, there’s a lot of young girls who can’t get enough
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Apr 18, 2022 04:12
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The grading brainworms are settling in again and I need some convincing not to: is there any reason at all to have anything contemporary graded and slabbed, outside of "I like it"? Contemporary meaning within the last 5-10 years here. Is it all just a guessing game of which variant cover will be worth money in the future?
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Apr 18, 2022 04:44
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Unless you have the first appearance of Spider Gwen or Gwenpool or Batman who Laughs, probably not but it's your money!
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Apr 18, 2022 09:08
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Isn't the first appearance of Batman who laughs not worth much because it was in a giant huge selling event comic? First appearance of Deadpool is worth so much because who hanged on to a random issue of New Mutants from the end of the run?
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Apr 18, 2022 09:33
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The first appearance of Batman Who Laughs should get you money from DC for emotional damage inflicted by reading a comic with the Batman Who Laughs
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Apr 18, 2022 11:58
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So getting lucky with a key issue of somebody who gets popular out of nowhere with a new show or something always trumps variant cover of popular character with known artist?
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Apr 18, 2022 12:36
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Turbinosamente posted:So getting lucky with a key issue of somebody who gets popular out of nowhere with a new show or something always trumps variant cover of popular character with known artist? Not always. There's a famous cover by Jock from Snyder's run on Detective Comics that is just a really cool picture of the Joker, and it's worth a few hundred.
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Apr 18, 2022 13:10
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I’m still waiting for my complete collection of all 13 of the variant covers of Gen13 #1 to start paying off.
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Apr 18, 2022 13:11
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Skwirl posted:Isn't the first appearance of Batman who laughs not worth much because it was in a giant huge selling event comic? Uh... So hypothetically if someone had that issue of new mutants, deadpools original miniseries and a near complete* run of deadpool up to and including the gail simone run that might be worth some actual money? *Never did manage to get that one issue which had a cover aping amazing fantasy #15, and I think maybe a couple other issues missing
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Apr 18, 2022 13:32
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SiKboy posted:Uh... So hypothetically if someone had that issue of new mutants, deadpools original miniseries and a near complete* run of deadpool up to and including the gail simone run that might be worth some actual money? Raw copies of New Mutants 98 regularly sell for $400+ Canadian on eBay so likely at least $ 300 USD.
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Apr 18, 2022 14:40
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CopywrightMMXI posted:Raw copies of New Mutants 98 regularly sell for $400+ Canadian on eBay so likely at least $ 300 USD.  Dang. I used to have the same collection as SiKBoy.
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Apr 18, 2022 14:49
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I AM GRANDO posted:I’m still waiting for my complete collection of all 13 of the variant covers of Gen13 #1 to start paying off. I remember a friend desperate to get the Rolling Stone parody cover.
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Apr 18, 2022 15:59
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SiKboy posted:Uh... So hypothetically if someone had that issue of new mutants, deadpools original miniseries and a near complete* run of deadpool up to and including the gail simone run that might be worth some actual money? Right now, if you look for New Mutants 98, there are about a dozen priced between $500-$2000 on eBay One of them is signed by Claremont and Fabien, with a little doodle, sealed and rated at a 9.6, one is sealed and rated a 9.8, and most others appear appear to be loose (no rating, no seal). Now, the one thing I always point out whenever anyone asks about stuff like this is "It's only worth what someone is willing to pay for". These are listed at $500, but I don't see that any have sold for $500 recently. As for the original miniseries, that's harder to sell to anyone other than a completest. You'd almost want to go in the other direction and see if there were collectors that were missing one or two from their collection and you can help fill in those gaps. I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade, but selling a comic for several hundred dollars (unless it is actually rare) is unlikely. The above signed, sealed and rated comic is a good example, but I'd never pay $2000 for it myself.
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Apr 18, 2022 18:39
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CzarChasm posted:Right now, if you look for New Mutants 98, there are about a dozen priced between $500-$2000 on eBay When I check eBay I always filter by some items to see what people are paying for things. This is helpful when pricing things out for my local buy/sell group. But you are correct when you say that it is rare for people to spend hundreds for a book. Usually if a book is expensive it’ll get sold in a waffle or slider sale rather than a straight sale.
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Apr 18, 2022 22:01
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Turbinosamente posted:So getting lucky with a key issue of somebody who gets popular out of nowhere with a new show or something always trumps variant cover of popular character with known artist? There's exceptions, but it's largely driven by rarity.
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Apr 19, 2022 02:37
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Skwirl posted:There's exceptions, but it's largely driven by rarity. Yeah I've been doing a deep dive on ebay since I posted to see what's out there, and what is or isn't selling, and quelle surprise the thread advice is right. The books still on it's way to me, I'll wait till it's here and then decide if the novelty of slabbing it is worth the extra money since it's unlikely to appreciate at all.
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Apr 19, 2022 03:10
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One thing I have always wondered is does having signatures or doodles on comics increase their worth? I have a first issue of Saga that I assume is worth tens of dollars but I also have a random issue of Saga (I think it's number 3 or 4) that has a character sketch by Fiona Staple on it that she did for me at a con (well for a friend who gave it to me). Is that random issue now worth something?
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Apr 19, 2022 03:15
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Madkal posted:One thing I have always wondered is does having signatures or doodles on comics increase their worth? I have a first issue of Saga that I assume is worth tens of dollars but I also have a random issue of Saga (I think it's number 3 or 4) that has a character sketch by Fiona Staple on it that she did for me at a con (well for a friend who gave it to me). Is that random issue now worth something? Only to someone who believes it is legit and actually wants it. One of my favorite things to do as a collector is meet creators at conventions, have them sign my books, chat a little, tell them what their work has meant to me, and sometimes get a photo with them. I've never gotten a certificate of authenticity, which means if I ever wanted to sell those signed books, they might even be worth LESS, rather than more, because the signatures can't be verified and may even be considered to deface the comics. Pictures of me with the writer or artist probably wouldn't be enough to prove it to a skeptical buyer, but that's not why I bother to get those signatures.
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Apr 19, 2022 03:25
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Yeah I got Rod Reis to sign new mutants #1 (2019) for me at C2E2 and didn't waste any time with the verification stuff. That ones just for me.
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Apr 19, 2022 13:08
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I have an issue of Cerebus that was signed by Dave Sim with a little sketch. I'm pretty sure that actually lowers the book's value.
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Apr 19, 2022 13:57
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Selachian posted:I have an issue of Cerebus that was signed by Dave Sim with a little sketch. I'm pretty sure that actually lowers the book's value. Jokes aside, CGC did at least when I was in the business say any autograph lowered the value of the book. You could have FF#1 with Jack and Stan's signatures at 10.0 and it would still be worth less slabbed than a 10.0 without.
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Apr 19, 2022 17:42
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Dawgstar posted:Jokes aside, CGC did at least when I was in the business say any autograph lowered the value of the book. You could have FF#1 with Jack and Stan's signatures at 10.0 and it would still be worth less slabbed than a 10.0 without. This is certainly true for middle of the pack books, probably a lot less true for something like an FF#1 signed by Stan and Jack.
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Apr 19, 2022 18:25
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Selachian posted:I have an issue of Cerebus that was signed by Dave Sim with a little sketch. I'm pretty sure that actually lowers the book's value. I have the well read fifth trade signed by Gerhard, bet that's worth a lot! I also have a drawing of his of Cerebus playing a guitar, should be worth at least what I paid for it.
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Apr 19, 2022 18:46
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Jordan7hm posted:This is certainly true for middle of the pack books, probably a lot less true for something like an FF#1 signed by Stan and Jack. I dunno. CGC rules came off as extremely draconian in the search for that perfect 10.0.
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Apr 19, 2022 19:37
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How large is everyone’s collection? I have around 2500 comics (not including trades/omnibuses). I collected from about 1993-2008 and then got back into the hobby in 2020.
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Apr 19, 2022 19:56
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