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Vincent Van Goatse posted:The Ukrainia isn't complete enough for a suicide run. Although after the war ends it's more likely than not she'll be completed with NATO assistance and possibly even NATO weaponry. I really, really doubt it. She is 40 years old, never went to sea, she is probably a mess and not something that fits Ukranian Navy doctrine. There is nothing a ship like that can do, that other platforms can't do but better. I'd give her to Russia as white elephant peace offering, it would cost more to make her moderately useful than to build a modern DDG.
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Apr 19, 2022 05:53
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Just donate an Arleigh Burke-class DDG to Ukraine. Probably more capable than half the Russian Navy at this point.
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Apr 19, 2022 05:56
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:The Ukrainia isn't complete enough for a suicide run. Although after the war ends it's more likely than not she'll be completed with NATO assistance and possibly even NATO weaponry. It’s probably more cost effective to build a couple of smaller, more modern destroyers with AA and ASW capability. Those smaller ships can still mount ASMs, just not 16 of the loving things.
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Apr 19, 2022 05:56
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Gervasius posted:I really, really doubt it. She is 40 years old, never went to sea, she is probably a mess and not something that fits Ukranian Navy doctrine. There is nothing a ship like that can do, that other platforms can't do but better. A functional Slava-class ship can control the Black Sea if used wisely. Plus Ukraine having a better version of the ship they sunk is a powerful propaganda statement. Of course this all depends on the condition of the ship itself. She might be hosed beyond repair, but neither you nor I know if this is true.
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Apr 19, 2022 05:56
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:A functional Slava-class ship can control the Black Sea if used wisely. Plus Ukraine having a better version of the ship they sunk is a powerful propaganda statement. So can a smattering of coastal missile launchers plus a modern frigate or two, and probably cheaper, without putting all the eggs in one very explodey basket. Regarding her condition, you could literally take tour of her before the war, she's old, rusted mess. Gervasius fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Apr 19, 2022 |
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Apr 19, 2022 06:05
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laughing my rear end off at that how the Ukraine war got Finland to decide it's time to join the "Group of Friends Protectively Assembled Against The Insane rear end in a top hat Next Door" club and russia's response to this is the equivalent to going to your ex's house armed and screaming at them from the street about how dare you get a restraining order, this provocation will not stand
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Apr 19, 2022 06:26
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Kavros posted:laughing my rear end off at that how the Ukraine war got Finland to decide it's time to join the "Group of Friends Protectively Assembled Against The Insane rear end in a top hat Next Door" club and russia's response to this is the equivalent to going to your ex's house armed and screaming at them from the street about how dare you get a restraining order, this provocation will not stand Russia has in 2 months done more to legitimize and make NATO seem necessary than anything else in 50 years
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Apr 19, 2022 06:33
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Russia has in 2 months done more to legitimize and make NATO seem necessary than anything else in 50 years I mean, given Russia's performance, not really to legitimize massive spending on huge militaries and next-generation weapon systems (vs just improving readiness from where some of Europe is now). But it's been decades since there was such a clear purpose for "cross this border and get dogpiled." Plenty of reasonable people asked whether NATO had a reason to exist in the 1990s and 2000s, but it's out the window now.
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Apr 19, 2022 07:18
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There is absolutely no way theyre going to finish the Ukrayina. Its a 40 year old rusted out hulk.
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Apr 19, 2022 07:38
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Killer robot posted:I mean, given Russia's performance, not really to legitimize massive spending on huge militaries and next-generation weapon systems (vs just improving readiness from where some of Europe is now). Europe desperately needs to invest in some honeypot military airfields they can draw Russian attention to during a potential invasion.
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Apr 19, 2022 07:55
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Orthanc6 posted:And we should also remember it took over a month for Ukraine to force Russia out of the north. No one really knows how long any part of this next phase will take. But as opposed to the start of the war Ukraine is now far better equipped, wholeheartedly focused and driven in their purpose, partially mobilized, and very aware of Russia's movements and intentions. So I'd say we have decent reasons to believe Ukraine could reverse this offense even quicker than the previous. To my mind it would behoove Ukraine to not oppose these advances directly in force. That's playing to your enemy's strength. If you have to give ground do it, but try and make them pay in the meantime, hit advancing forces with artillery, have hidden antitank and antipersonnel stations, try to divide their forces, try to hit their supply lines, etc. And I think this is exactly what they will try to do. But I agree with some posters that they will have a harder time this go around. The Russians are no longer operating under quite as many delusions as before, they've lost tons of men, there will be no more lightning advances to big cities it will be much more cautious and with more combined arms I believe. Even if the officers push for fast advances the troops are going to drag their feet. At this point most of them must know that this is a meat grinder and careless advancing is likely to get you killed. WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:gently caress that dude be legends. Suicide it into Sevastopol harbor preferably with a a gang of ASMs on it to smoke the Nazi naval forces based there. Okay now we have descended to the force awakens level military strategy, let's dial it back a bit Risky Bisquick posted:Belarus talking a big game I mean, 'if they attack.' That's not exactly threatening, sounds more like 'please please don't invade us'. Which is probably fair enough because that seems like a bad idea on all sides. most men settle for buying a convertible during their mid life crisis. no half measures for this guy though, mad respect Thank you, thank you I worked quite hard on this piece. I call it, 'Ode to Slacks'
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Apr 19, 2022 08:13
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Gervasius posted:So can a smattering of coastal missile launchers plus a modern frigate or two, and probably cheaper, without putting all the eggs in one very explodey basket. Yeah they'd be much better off getting the US and France to tack a couple more FREMM frigates onto the current order queue, and then grabbing a bunch of capable new small corvette designs from Germany or the nordic countries. Much more modern and capable, more suited to an inland sea, lower crew requirements.
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Apr 19, 2022 08:23
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who doesnt love a good lenin monument
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Apr 19, 2022 08:24
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Play posted:
i call it 'avec culottes'
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Apr 19, 2022 08:26
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Apr 19, 2022 08:27
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news,
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NTRabbit posted:Yeah they'd be much better off getting the US and France to tack a couple more FREMM frigates onto the current order queue, and then grabbing a bunch of capable new small corvette designs from Germany or the nordic countries. Much more modern and capable, more suited to an inland sea, lower crew requirements. CMYK BLYAT! posted:who doesnt love a good lenin monument Maybe we should put him back there since Ukraine was his "mistake" apparently
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Apr 19, 2022 08:47
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FizFashizzle posted:Chris coons becomes the first dem senator to openly suggest toying with world war 3 Yeah this will go absolutely nowhere. And not just because of Biden but basically the entire coalition of countries who are against Russia. For this coalition, the policies they've chosen have been working beautifully towards their interests and preferred outcomes. Beyond all expectations, really. They are effectively opposing Russia without too much risk of things spiraling out of control in terms of WMDs or nuclear powers fighting total war. Despite Putin's threats, it's become clear that Russia is unlikely to radically escalate just because the west is supporting Ukraine with arms and materiel. This state of affairs is essentially the status quo for the war by this point. Meanwhile this support is popular enough at home, which may not continue to be true if there was direct intervention and US/European citizens start dying in combat and even more billions are spent. There is absolutely no way they will mess with this formula, especially given the results that Ukraine has been able to achieve. The options are basically risk everything, or continue with the relatively safe strategy that has proved quite effective already. Easiest choice ever for any politician. I know everyone in the thread probably already understands this, but it is funny to periodically see things like this from clueless Congresspeople on both sides. These takes really seem divorced from reality.
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Apr 19, 2022 08:50
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Play posted:I know everyone in the thread probably already understands this, but it is funny to periodically see things like this from clueless Congresspeople on both sides. These takes really seem divorced from reality. Not exactly the same situation but during the Obama years, republicans spoke absolutely endlessly about how they are going to cancel obamacare in its entirety as soon as possible. Then, when they actually should have had the votes to do it, it wasn't so simple anymore. As long as it wasn't a practical possibility, it was safe to talk about.
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Apr 19, 2022 09:11
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I'm seeing a lot of geopolitical sorts arguing that Ukraine will fall eventually, within the year, then move on other countries bordering it, including NATO countries. FYI, he doesn't do any confronting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdP01go8wdQ - Russia will take Ukraine within a year, though sheer number of bodies thrown into the meat grinder. - Russia will invade NATO countries after Ukraine. Russia doesn't fear that NATO will use nukes. - Demographics in Russia mean Putin could be the last real leader of Russia. - They don't have the births to have a large enough military in the future to take the countries around them, so they have to move now to ensure security. - NATO is scared of any conflict with Russia because they would absolutely crush the Russians on the battlefield which would lead to Russia using nukes. These seem like really hot takes given where we are at right now, and how many resources the West will put into Ukraine moving forward. NATO and Europe should be feeding Ukraine as many military resources as possible if even half of it is true. Most of these experts didn't even think that Russia would try to take all of Ukraine before this war started.
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Apr 19, 2022 09:18
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I don't buy any of the arguments about demographic trends leading to this conflict.
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Apr 19, 2022 09:31
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Russia has been perpetually 10 years away from being forever irrelevant since about 1700
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Apr 19, 2022 09:32
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Nabiullina says that Russian economy will hit a brick wall by late Q2/early Q3, due to current sanctions. https://rg.ru/2022/04/18/nabiullina-ekonomika-rossii-vstupaet-v-neprostoj-period-strukturnyh-izmenenij.html
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Apr 19, 2022 09:37
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Hamelekim posted:I'm seeing a lot of geopolitical sorts arguing that Ukraine will fall eventually, within the year, then move on other countries bordering it, including NATO countries. these would be hot takes if russia's invasion had gone exactly according to putin's fantasies and this whole affair was another "walk in and declare yourself in charge unopposed" affair like crimea. people love hot takes. alarmist hot takes drive views, especially when there's an actual war on to fuel the flames this is some guy doing a book tour
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Apr 19, 2022 09:39
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Russia again has given Ukrainian forces in Azovstal 30 minutes to surrender
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Apr 19, 2022 09:42
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I don't see how Russia can 'take' whole of Ukraine simply by using human wave attack where considerable portion of an army will be inexperienced/demoralized/surrender/lacking equipment when so far it managed to take only Kherson and that was basically because UA forces withdrew. This is not WWI. That video is also 2 weeks old, back then Russians already withdrew from around Kyiv and northern Ukraine, so it seems they themselves gave up on their goal of taking whole Ukraine. Dwesa fucked around with this message at 09:55 on Apr 19, 2022 |
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Apr 19, 2022 09:52
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They'd also need to somehow learn how to manage a supply chain more than 100km long. Something they've struggled with so far.FishBulbia posted:Russia again has given Ukrainian forces in Azovstal 30 minutes to surrender I assume they're not doing this out of any kind of humanitarian gesture and are worried about sending a bunch of soldiers into that place.
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Apr 19, 2022 09:55
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Hamelekim posted:I'm seeing a lot of geopolitical sorts arguing that Ukraine will fall eventually, within the year, then move on other countries bordering it, including NATO countries. "NATO won't fight Russia because they'd win too hard" is certainly a take. NATO would never fight a war inside Russia's borders unless Russia had already gone nuclear, and if Russia was willing to go nuclear in a war of aggression they'd have done so in the one they're already fighting and losing.
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Apr 19, 2022 09:56
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Dwesa posted:I don't see how Russia can 'take' whole of Ukraine simply by using human wave attack where considerable portion of an army will be inexperienced/demoralized/surrender/lacking equipment There is still a not insubstantial number of people who believe that is how they defeated the Wehrmacht
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Apr 19, 2022 09:57
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https://mobile.twitter.com/ChuckPfarrer/status/1515387635606319106
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Apr 19, 2022 10:03
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Zhanism posted:Its like they are seeing their own paranoia in their face and thinking that its real. Just to be clear, I'm going to say that none of these countries threatened to attack Belarus or did I miss something major? Nah. This BS has an audience of one, and he is sitting in Moscow. Putin pushes Luka to attack Ukraine, Luka can't really say no but is also smart enough to not actually do it, so he needs an excuse. That excuse is, right now, that he needs his army on his western border to deter an attack by NATO. The idiotic part is that the Belarusian Army couldn't really do anything against even the armies of the Baltic States if they rolled in, let alone that of Poland or the rest of NATO. Yes, I'm aware of how tiny the armies of the Baltic states are, the army of Belarus is just that bad. But in no way is Belarus attacking anything. They just put their army on the border and rattle sabers. mobby_6kl posted:Isn't the US getting rid of a bunch of relatively modern ships now? Reduce, reuse, recycle etc. The big problem is that those ships are really, really bad. Totally loving counterproductive to keep floating level bad.
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Apr 19, 2022 10:08
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https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1516338500567801857?s=20&t=dTvmIFcrcRGGGVBTBxaOug well now im scared
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Apr 19, 2022 10:09
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Tuna-Fish posted:. What ships are those?
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Apr 19, 2022 10:11
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Lol they want to just annex a quarter of Europe https://i.imgur.com/a27QPDv.mp4
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Apr 19, 2022 10:12
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No goddamn way (as in awestruck not disbelief), and talk about a proper response to what amounts to trying to take the national grid offline.
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Apr 19, 2022 10:13
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Hamelekim posted:I'm seeing a lot of geopolitical sorts arguing that Ukraine will fall eventually, within the year, then move on other countries bordering it, including NATO countries. Those are beyond spicy takes, yes.
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Apr 19, 2022 10:14
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From under what rock have all these cohorts of dime store experts crawled all out of the sudden?
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Apr 19, 2022 10:18
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Hamelekim posted:I'm seeing a lot of geopolitical sorts arguing that Ukraine will fall eventually, within the year, then move on other countries bordering it, including NATO countries. This is ridiculous because without mobilization Russia can't overwhelm Ukraine "with sheer number of bodies" and mobilization would lead to real internal problems (if that guy wants to talk about bigger picture and demographics). Attacking NATO while essentially doing a suicide bomber approach is even more buckwild scenario with no basis in reality.
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Apr 19, 2022 10:19
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 helicopter strikes against hackers in enemy territory is some real cyberpunk poo pooTuna-Fish posted:The big problem is that those ships are really, really bad. Totally loving counterproductive to keep floating level bad. Okay give them to russia then, as compensation for Moskva 
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Apr 19, 2022 10:23
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steinrokkan posted:What ships are those? The Littoral Combat Vessels that are being retired at half their service life because they're poo poo and falling apart, the US having tried to reinvent the wheel by designing 'light inshore combat vessels' on their own, rather than just asking any of the countries with fjords who mastered the concept some time ago.
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Apr 19, 2022 10:25
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mobby_6kl posted:
Wasnt a helicopter crash in war with Finland a flashback in Neuromancer
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Apr 19, 2022 10:26
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