|
cinci zoo sniper posted:
Scholz is displaying that vaunted German efficiency. Should restore any lost faith that they had lost their national ethos after their constant dithering over taking any concrete actions. (Although based on the comments ITT, it seems they are still being nearly as slow as feasible.)
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 19:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 06:19 |
|
|
This graph really makes it clear how cheap this is to the West, in terms of aid to Ukraine. 8 billion is a rounding error for the US.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 19:14
|
|
|
I know the US is everyone's least favorite country. But for this specific topic of military support to Ukraine I'm drat proud of them for stepping up to help.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 19:15
|
|
|
bad_fmr posted:Why the hell would anyone think Nicky 2 as a symbol of strength? Like pick almost any other Tsar instead idk they made the stupid gently caress a saint. i assume they also like his dad too.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 19:16
|
|
|
More Germanposting, since you people can't seem to get enough of it ( )quote:According to information from the Süddeutsche Zeitung, the German government is preparing another package that significantly exceeds the quality of the systems delivered so far. The Federal Ministry of Defence had drawn up the list of weapon systems and equipment available at short notice mentioned by Scholz after a query with the industry. It includes mortars with a calibre of 120 millimetres and automatic cannons, radar systems for ground surveillance and for locating enemy positions, as well as electronic jamming systems. The SZ is pretty reliable, but the mention of autocannons makes me raise an eyebrow. The only standalone autocannons I know of would be something like Mantis or this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb5_F4_Eod8 And it seems highly dubious to me.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 19:19
|
|
|
I'm catching up on the thread, but just wanted to reply and say holy poo poo, this owns. Just imagine sitting at your computer in Russia, tapping in assembly code to a terminal window and you get vaporized in a targeted attack. Wowzers!
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 19:19
|
|
|
Makes me sad my country is not on the list. But then again Finland announced a new package to Ukraine and are declining to state whats in it https://twitter.com/defencefinland/status/1516423857896366084
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 19:20
|
|
Antigravitas posted:More Germanposting, since you people can't seem to get enough of it ( Sounds more like "heavy" infantry weapons to me. So M120 Mortars and the HK GMW, which qualifies as an autocannon.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 19:24
|
|
|
I do wonder how feasible would be to spin the leclerc or ariete lines back up to provide cheap tanks while the germans wait on what armor is fine or not to ship to ukraine. Tech wise nothing in it would be advanced enough to be worriesome for nato members to disclose if captured.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 19:25
|
|
|
Henrik Zetterberg posted:I'm catching up on the thread, but just wanted to reply and say holy poo poo, this owns. Keep in mind that it appears to be a literal nobody posting that. I’ve yet to see anyone repeat the story.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 19:27
|
|
|
Patrocclesiastes posted:Makes me sad my country is not on the list. But then again Finland announced a new package to Ukraine and are declining to state whats in it Finland: "gently caress you Russia, stop us."
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 19:30
|
|
|
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/19/russia-deployed-20000-mercenaries-ukraine-donbas-regionquote:Russia has deployed up to 20,000 mercenaries from Syria, Libya and elsewhere in its new offensive in Ukraine’s Donbas region, sent into battle with no heavy equipment or armoured vehicles, according to a European official. Antigravitas posted:More Germanposting, since you people can't seem to get enough of it ( This thing looks metall as gently caress.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 19:30
|
|
|
SlowBloke posted:I do wonder how feasible would be to spin the leclerc or ariete lines back up to provide cheap tanks while the germans wait on what armor is fine or not to ship to ukraine. Tech wise nothing in it would be advanced enough to be worriesome for nato members to disclose if captured. Even if the tooling hasn't been destroyed it would take a long time to get things going. If it has been? Might be almost impossible. A quick look shows the last Ariete rolled off the lines in 2002 so I doubt it would be possible to spin things up while the last Leclerc was built in 2007 but Nexter claims they can restart production if needed. But I imagine that's more of a "France is literally at war" thing.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 19:32
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/JackDetsch/status/1516484204544118784?s=20&t=QPEBqozTigqrY1rSYrz0xw
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 19:33
|
|
|
Kraftwerk posted:I know the US is everyone's least favorite country. But for this specific topic of military support to Ukraine I'm drat proud of them for stepping up to help. It's great and all but it's not pure altruism. This is an enormous handout to the MIC. Every item sent to Ukraine is an item that America needs to buy again.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 19:33
|
|
|
SlowBloke posted:I do wonder how feasible would be to spin the leclerc or ariete lines back up to provide cheap tanks while the germans wait on what armor is fine or not to ship to ukraine. Tech wise nothing in it would be advanced enough to be worriesome for nato members to disclose if captured. Don't know about Ariete, but Leclerc isn't cheap nor not advanced enough. Also, someone posted classified excerpts from tank's manual to prove a point on War Thunder forums. Even better, that was some time after another player posted another batch of classified information about Challenger 2 on same forums. Amazing, I love the internet.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 19:34
|
|
|
Pook Good Mook posted:It's great and all but it's not pure altruism. Of course its not pure altruism, nothing in geopolitics is done because of pure altruism. I'm still very proud nonetheless.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 19:35
|
|
|
Pook Good Mook posted:It's great and all but it's not pure altruism. Yeah but there's no avoiding that. What Ukraine needs is military equipment. There's no diplomacy, nothing else that they need. They need to make Russia bleed on Ukrainian soil.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 19:37
|
|
|
cinci zoo sniper posted:Keep in mind that it appears to be a literal nobody posting that. I’ve yet to see anyone repeat the story. I haven't seen it elsewhere either, but there has to be a very good explanation for sending helicopters to blow up an office in russia
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 19:37
|
|
|
GaussianCopula posted:Sounds more like "heavy" infantry weapons to me. So M120 Mortars and the HK GMW, which qualifies as an autocannon. Rheinmetall produces a variety of autocannons from 20mm to 35mm for their different vehicles. Could be a version of one of those.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 19:38
|
|
|
GaussianCopula posted:Sounds more like "heavy" infantry weapons to me. So M120 Mortars and the HK GMW, which qualifies as an autocannon. Makes sense, I didn't think of automatic grenade launchers. Ukraine apparently already operates the MK19.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 19:38
|
|
|
SlowBloke posted:I do wonder how feasible would be to spin the leclerc or ariete lines back up to provide cheap tanks while the germans wait on what armor is fine or not to ship to ukraine. Tech wise nothing in it would be advanced enough to be worriesome for nato members to disclose if captured. The Leclerc seems like a good tank to send to the Ukrainians since it has an autoloader so they'd probably be more comfortable with it. Pook Good Mook posted:It's great and all but it's not pure altruism. Yes I know. But that 13+ billion "tip" in congress added to the last budget for their military in retrospect turns out to be for replacement of all the weapons they've been sending Ukraine. I think that number represents the upper limit of what the US currently estimates it'll be spending for military equipment to Ukraine by budget. Anything past that will probably require a special legislation above and beyond these smaller legislated aid packages. The actual defense industry apparently is having major supply chain issues and labor issues where they've lost a lot of people to COVID and other factors so their ability ramp up and quickly replace what was given away is apparently limited and carries a downside risk that when the conflict is over the government will leave them high and dry with all the extra production capacity. For that reason apparently defense contractors haven't done much to improve the production rates.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 19:38
|
|
|
SlowBloke posted:I do wonder how feasible would be to spin the leclerc or ariete lines back up to provide cheap tanks while the germans wait on what armor is fine or not to ship to ukraine. Tech wise nothing in it would be advanced enough to be worriesome for nato members to disclose if captured. I kinda wonder where Ukraine's non-renovated T-64 and T-72 hulls are, especially given the Czech offer of doing repairs. Well, probably not Lviv...
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 19:42
|
|
Trump posted:Rheinmetall produces a variety of autocannons from 20mm to 35mm for their different vehicles. Could be a version of one of those. Yeah but we are not exporting the vehicles so my guess is that it's an infrantry weapon, which is more in line with what Germany is already doing. It seems that SZ has become the prime conduit for German defense ministry spin, so I expect them to overhype everything.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 19:49
|
|
|
Pook Good Mook posted:It's great and all but it's not pure altruism. All foreign aid is generally this. Even food aid to famine affected areas is just buying domestic food to ship over. This is why I am not super optimistic that German commitments will amount to much. If they don't have anything to give, they probably don't have much available to sell (to themselves and donate) either. Luckily the US is a military with a country attached.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 19:50
|
|
|
Just checked the italian website of the factory that made the ariete, line is no longer active even if they just won a massive refurb project for the ariete fleet. They still have an active pzh2000 line tho which has shipped the last units for the italian army not so long ago.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 19:54
|
|
|
Honestly one of the lessons from this should be that the West needs to pay the MIC a little bit of R&D money to throw together some 'wartime production model' versions of current designs. Stripped right down of all the fancy optional extras, 'what is the cheapest, easiest to mass-produce thing you can come up with that will do the job'. You can't just spin up entirely new factories or long suttered production lines, but you can flip existing lines onto 'you need to make 10 tanks a day ready for export, they don't have to be good they just have to be enough'. e: something something 'the exchange rate': https://twitter.com/IlyaMatveev_/status/1516464028729679872
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 19:56
|
|
|
Alchenar posted:Honestly one of the lessons from this should be that the West needs to pay the MIC a little bit of R&D money to throw together some 'wartime production model' versions of current designs. Stripped right down of all the fancy optional extras, 'what is the cheapest, easiest to mass-produce thing you can come up with that will do the job'. you're going to get the response of "the answer turns out to be that you need to fund a full-scale production line of our latest and greatest thing"
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 19:58
|
|
|
Here's a nice thread from a milhist goon that pretty much debunks "ukranians fought for the nazis in WW2" myth that pops up occasionally. https://twitter.com/Tank_Archives/status/1516467732333608963
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 20:00
|
|
|
The crazy thing to me is that many European armies outside those fielding a mix of upgraded Warsaw Pact weapons with new NATO weapons (i.e. Czechia) have basically no means to domestically spool up a large defense production system. If the forces they have on hand aren't enough they have no real way to replenish combat attrition and would be hosed given how fast modern warfare moves.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 20:01
|
|
|
Alchenar posted:Honestly one of the lessons from this should be that the West needs to pay the MIC a little bit of R&D money to throw together some 'wartime production model' versions of current designs. Stripped right down of all the fancy optional extras, 'what is the cheapest, easiest to mass-produce thing you can come up with that will do the job'. What if you never shut down the tank lines even in peacetime, and just keep cranking out tanks and putting them into storage?
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 20:02
|
|
|
Alchenar posted:Honestly one of the lessons from this should be that the West needs to pay the MIC a little bit of R&D money to throw together some 'wartime production model' versions of current designs. Stripped right down of all the fancy optional extras, 'what is the cheapest, easiest to mass-produce thing you can come up with that will do the job'. You will end up like the lima factory which is building m1 until the heat death of the universe
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 20:03
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/MinPres/status/1516393082148773892 ...and I heard on the radio Romania is contributing but I can't find anything to support it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 20:04
|
|
|
Kraftwerk posted:The crazy thing to me is that many European armies outside those fielding a mix of upgraded Warsaw Pact weapons with new NATO weapons (i.e. Czechia) have basically no means to domestically spool up a large defense production system. until now there haven't been any threat to them for decades.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 20:04
|
|
|
Interesting mention that Continental is resuming production in their Russian tire factory. Their statement is that keeping it shut would expose their Russian personnel to criminal liability. Would be interesting to know if it's actually hard to divest the facilities and operations, or if it's just "hard" because obviously all the Russian buyers are offering pennies on the dollar for them. Just write it off and be done with it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 20:05
|
|
|
the popes toes posted:https://twitter.com/MinPres/status/1516393082148773892 What armor can Holland provide? They don't have any tanks and I don't think they will give away their CV90's.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 20:07
|
|
|
Kraftwerk posted:The crazy thing to me is that many European armies outside those fielding a mix of upgraded Warsaw Pact weapons with new NATO weapons (i.e. Czechia) have basically no means to domestically spool up a large defense production system. Check the design/field date for most of the European armies heavy armour, the ones that did indigenous design and builds stopped designing new armour straight once the wall fell, Russia became "friendly" and politicians found a way to reduce debt by cutting military spending.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 20:07
|
|
|
SlowBloke posted:You will end up like the lima factory which is building m1 until the heat death of the universe Oh I knew about the factory but I did not know that the US has 4000 Abrams in storage. And I know the Abrams is the most absurdly expensive, logistics heavy tank in the world to operate but... just shove a thousand of them onto ships and give the Ukranians a tank corps.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 20:09
|
|
|
Atreiden posted:until now there haven't been any threat to them for decades. I mean, there has been. Russian fascism didn't just spring into existence in 2022 or 2014. It's just been very convenient to pretend it wasn't there. Both because NATO members have a credible collective deterrent for themselves and because a lot of people really did not want to deal with it for a variety of reasons.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 20:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 06:19 |
|
|
DekeThornton posted:What armor can Holland provide? They don't have any tanks and I don't think they will give away their CV90's. If they didn't turned all their 400+ leo 1 into razor blades those are an option. I wonder how many are still left from the former european operators which upgraded to more modern models.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 20:14
|
|