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A.o.D. posted:RULE #1 NO NOT BELIEVING IN YOURSELF God, somebody needs to crowdsource Kenny G into a ukranian propaganda video
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Apr 20, 2022 03:45
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EasilyConfused posted:Are there different variations of artillery ammo for NATO 155mm (like AP vs. HE in naval or tank guns)? If so that might also be a factor. No, that’s the point of NATO logistics standardization. If an American unit gets detached and finds itself fighting alongside Belgians or Germans or Italians and it says 155mm and NATO on the crate, their NATO-standard 155mm artillery piece* will be able to physically fire it, though I’d assume that different projectiles from different countries might have different ballistics tables. *Small caveat that certain precision munitions require further hardware on the gun to interface with the electronics in the PGM, but that’s probably not the case here.
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Apr 20, 2022 03:51
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Here's a question for the thread: What does the end of this war look like? Does this bed in as Russia's foreverwar, the only prospect of an off ramp being the eventual fall of Putin (probably due to death by natural causes)? Until the next republican administration calls off Ukrainian military aid, with genocide of 44 million people being quietly swept under the rug?
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Apr 20, 2022 05:16
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IPCRESS posted:Here's a question for the thread: If the war stays the course the next republican president isnt gonna be sworn in quick enough to do anything kompromat or no. I suspect the end state will be Ukraine at least retakes all ground it lost and possibly the two break away areas and holds crimeas water ransom.
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Apr 20, 2022 05:36
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Does Crimea not have groundwater or are the russians incapable of operating a well drill that isn't aimed at oil and gas pockets?
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Apr 20, 2022 05:46
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CRUSTY MINGE posted:Does Crimea not have groundwater or are the russians incapable of operating a well drill that isn't aimed at oil and gas pockets? The water table has been declining sharply in recent years, so existing wells aren't deep enough to draw groundwater anymore.
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Apr 20, 2022 05:48
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CRUSTY MINGE posted:Does Crimea not have groundwater or are the russians incapable of operating a well drill that isn't aimed at oil and gas pockets? They ran out of ground water 
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Apr 20, 2022 05:49
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Thank you, I was unaware of their water crisis. Maybe develop desalination next time instead of invading the neighbor again.
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Apr 20, 2022 05:49
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IIRC part of the problem is that the aquifers are maintained by the artificial canals that supply freshwater from the Dnipro, so when there's been drought in Crimea in the past couple years due to climate change and you've recently given Ukraine cause to shut off the canals, the aquifers get more and more drained. I am however not a hydrogeologist so I could be off base here.
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Apr 20, 2022 05:55
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WELL Essentially, when you drain a freshwater aquifer near to an ocean, what ends up happening is that the aquifer refills with sea water. So, not only are freshwater supplies from the North no longer coming, the continued depletion of groundwater is speeding up the infiltration of sea water from the Black Sea. The only two ways to fix a saltwatered coastal aquifer is to essentially pump so much water into it that it dilutes to drinkable form again OR give up and accept a life of desalination and the death of regional agriculture. California did this exact same thing to their aquifers in the 1930s, they at least had the luxury of then being on the receiving end of the largest series of agricultural water works ever developed by man. You can actually live in harmony with the sea trying to infiltrate your coastal aquifers, but it requires a carefully regulated system of withdrawals that is also sensitive to regional rainfall...which is something I doubt the Russian state has enough bureaucratic control to assert.
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Apr 20, 2022 06:06
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CRUSTY MINGE posted:Thank you, I was unaware of their water crisis. https://youtu.be/Aqq8clIceys A good primer on the water situation in Crimea. It should be pointed out there were extremely heavy rains causing flooding last year so the crisis was eased a bit.
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Apr 20, 2022 07:25
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MrYenko posted:No, that’s the point of NATO logistics standardization. If an American unit gets detached and finds itself fighting alongside Belgians or Germans or Italians and it says 155mm and NATO on the crate, their NATO-standard 155mm artillery piece* will be able to physically fire it, though I’d assume that different projectiles from different countries might have different ballistics tables. I think the question was about different ammunition types. In which case the answer is yes - there's HE, smoke, and illumination rounds at a minimum. The US also has cluster mines that can be delivered via artillery, but I doubt those are NATO standard.
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Apr 20, 2022 08:11
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shame on an IGA posted:God, somebody needs to crowdsource Kenny G into a ukranian propaganda video i was about to hum danger zone and then realized you werent talking about Kenny Loggins
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Apr 20, 2022 08:29
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The water crisis on Crimea is pretty significant for both sides. The Ukrainians have it as an example of the mismanagement of the 2014 invasion, which eradicated support for Putin from among the ethnically/linguistically Russians within Ukraine. Because they correctly blame Putin for the crisis. Putin has annexing the water-sources that used to supply Crimea as part of his "compromise" suggestions during the negotiations.
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Apr 20, 2022 11:00
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IPCRESS posted:Here's a question for the thread: Wars don’t end until one side capitulates or until a stronger external power forces an agreement. With china sitting on its thumbs and the US/EU supplying Ukraine the worry is that there’s no real way for this war to end - even if Ukraine pushes all Russian troops beyond the border, I’m still not sure Putin would sign a treaty. In the meantime, Ukrainians are suffering. They’ve been doing better than anyone imagined but do they really want to suffer until Russia capitulates if they can sign something earlier at the cost of Crimea or even one of the contested eastern regions? All that to say I think Ukraine is going to sign something, even with slightly unfavorable terms, and then work seriously on a mutual defense treaty with Europe. I don’t see this becoming a foreverwar.
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Apr 20, 2022 11:51
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psydude posted:I think the question was about different ammunition types. In which case the answer is yes - there's HE, smoke, and illumination rounds at a minimum. The US also has cluster mines that can be delivered via artillery, but I doubt those are NATO standard. Yeah, that's what I was asking about, thanks.
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Apr 20, 2022 12:01
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Hopefully Putin ends up realizing the error of his ways and pulls out. But realistically, it might take him committing suicide with 2 bullets to the back of his head while accidentally falling out a window while also accidentally ingesting polonium in order for this war to end. I mean, Russians do apparently like loving around with radioactive stuff soo
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Apr 20, 2022 12:07
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Ukraine has apparently already received fighter jets and parts. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/04/20/ukraine-russia-fighter-jets-weapons-war/ quote:Ukraine’s outgunned and outmanned military has held out against Russia for almost two months, and as Russia intensifies its attacks on Ukraine’s east and south, Western governments are dispatching heavier weaponry and warplanes to support resistance efforts. e: Question for artillery people. I thought that the soviet artillery used a different unit of measurement than NATO equipment (e.g. the M777), which uses milliradians. I recall this being a problem with Afghan artillery units that were used to older soviet era guns. How hard is it to switch? I'm guessing it's more than just the case of using new firing tables. psydude fucked around with this message at 12:31 on Apr 20, 2022 |
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Apr 20, 2022 12:22
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kGtIJxAH3A It has Commie nazis, transport and fighter aircrafts, and ….. even wooden pallets
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Apr 20, 2022 12:37
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Godholio posted:It's very easy for the operators to focus on the thing they've spotted on scope. This is basic human factors stuff. Throw adrenaline on top, too. It's not just about the radar focusing it's energy, it's also potentially the person doing their equivalent. Going along those lines... https://twitter.com/R_P_one/status/1515831703973117958
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Apr 20, 2022 13:09
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Defenestrategy posted:If the war stays the course the next republican president isnt gonna be sworn in quick enough to do anything kompromat or no. I suspect the end state will be Ukraine at least retakes all ground it lost and possibly the two break away areas and holds crimeas water ransom. No matter what, though, Ukraine is now bursting at the seams with weapons, and I can't see how this plays out well for the country's stability over the next 10-30 years.
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Apr 20, 2022 14:20
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cruft posted:No matter what, though, Ukraine is now bursting at the seams with weapons, and I can't see how this plays out well for the country's stability over the next 10-30 years. Given that they now have to live in fear of a Russia invasion that is actively happening: Their stability is already largely hosed. Its amazing they've held up this well.
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Apr 20, 2022 14:30
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cruft posted:No matter what, though, Ukraine is now bursting at the seams with weapons, and I can't see how this plays out well for the country's stability over the next 10-30 years. Yeah uh, the threat to stability in Ukraine is Russia, not that they have arms. In fact the threat to regional and even international security in this moment is largely a belligerent Russia who feels entitled to attack its neighbors for no legitimate reason.
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Apr 20, 2022 14:33
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cruft posted:No matter what, though, Ukraine is now bursting at the seams with weapons, and I can't see how this plays out well for the country's stability over the next 10-30 years. You've done an excellent job of distilling Central and Western Europe's views on this issue into a single sentence.
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Apr 20, 2022 14:38
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Idk America has been bursting at the seams with weapons for a while and it seems relatively stable, spicy capitol tourism excluded.
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Apr 20, 2022 14:46
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I'd think that the horror of war and russian threat would be a great unifying force for a decade. Nothing brings people together like having squabbles short circuited by an external threat.
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Apr 20, 2022 15:08
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The mere existence of weapons does not create instability, late stage liberalism theory be damned
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Apr 20, 2022 15:09
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The all too recent memory's of your family and countrymen getting slaughtered arent gonna evaporate overnight. And i dont see them suddenly hateing zelensky when this is all over. M_Gargantua posted:I'd think that the horror of war and russian threat would be a great unifying force for a decade. Nothing brings people together like having squabbles short circuited by an external threat.
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Apr 20, 2022 15:44
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FrozenVent posted:Idk America has been bursting at the seams with weapons for a while and it seems relatively stable, spicy capitol tourism excluded. Some dipshits with 40 ARs is not equivalent at all to us littering the countryside with anti armor weapons and high explosives
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Apr 20, 2022 15:50
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Proud Christian Mom posted:Some dipshits with 40 ARs is not equivalent at all to us littering the countryside with anti armor weapons and high explosives The common citizenry is not going to start randomly shooting high explosives at their neighbors if thats the implication. The biggest worry would be instability but Ukraine has a stable government with several peaceful transfers of power. Theres no real civil war in the country. It will require significant amounts of aid to clean up but that should be obvious. Post WW2 recovery was possible, there's no reason it isn't here. If you want to use linear thinking, you could look at the difference in African countries (usually civil war along ethnic lines and large amounts of arms) and European post WW2? lightpole fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Apr 20, 2022 |
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Apr 20, 2022 15:55
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As an old war in the east -grognard I've wondered if the russians have formed actual wartime battalion-brigade-div/corps organisational units on are they just shuffling mobilized individuals and remnants from destroyed BTGs into existing ones. Reinforcing existing BTGs is I guess a faster way to have a deployable unit, but they don't seem to lend themselves into combined arms offensives very well. So I suppose this is the way they'll go since they seem to do everything else the hard way too. They haven't thankfully had the time for reorganization either.
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Apr 20, 2022 15:57
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https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-04-20-22/h_5222481b5ffa2b502aa2c884434458a5quote:Two employees of a zoo in Kharkiv who stayed behind last month to take care of animals amid heavy shelling from Russian forces were found dead, the zoo said in a statement Tuesday. Scum in every way possible.
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Apr 20, 2022 15:58
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cruft posted:No matter what, though, Ukraine is now bursting at the seams with weapons, and I can't see how this plays out well for the country's stability over the next 10-30 years. That's a problem to be dealt with in the next 10-30 years, not now.
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Apr 20, 2022 16:02
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Organized crime in Europe regularly uses weaponry from the Yugoslav wars, so it's not a completely unfounded concern, just a really minor concern compared to a warlike dictatorship hellbent on conquering its former territories.
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Apr 20, 2022 16:05
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Marshal Prolapse posted:https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-04-20-22/h_5222481b5ffa2b502aa2c884434458a5 We have open audio recordings of Russian troops being told to kill any civilians they find. Its beyond nuts that this isn't being hammered.
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Apr 20, 2022 16:06
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Proud Christian Mom posted:Some dipshits with 40 ARs is not equivalent at all to us littering the countryside with anti armor weapons and high explosives Most of the littering is being done by Russians.
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Apr 20, 2022 16:11
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Proud Christian Mom posted:Some dipshits with 40 ARs is not equivalent at all to us littering the countryside with anti armor weapons and high explosives Invasions are really good as spreading weapons around, especially since the Russians are abandoning them in such haste.
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Apr 20, 2022 16:21
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Proud Christian Mom posted:Some dipshits with 40 ARs is not equivalent at all to us littering the countryside with anti armor weapons and high explosives Is this the "if you build it, they will come" of terrorism analysis? If you have weapons, instability will spontaneously erupt? (I think it is in incredibly poor taste to  about weapons shipments to ukraine right now, when they are using them to fight off an invasion, and asking for more)
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Apr 20, 2022 16:22
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imagine a happier outcome yall. in a decade or so some farmer will have made a nice food truck-esque setup out of abandoned T-84 carcasses and it'll be a nice neighborhood lunch spot slava ukrainian doobie
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Apr 20, 2022 16:28
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cruft posted:No matter what, though, Ukraine is now bursting at the seams with weapons, and I can't see how this plays out well for the country's stability over the next 10-30 years. Look at Croatia. It’s fine.
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Apr 20, 2022 16:30
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