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Seems like the Ukrainians arent too concerned about the stability implications of these arms shipments. I would defer to them for matters of internal stability and cohesion in this situation.
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Apr 20, 2022 16:32
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Budzilla posted:https://youtu.be/Aqq8clIceys Thank you, I'm adding that to my youtube list for the afternoon. I'm still celebrating the high holiday so it won't sink in if I watch it now, but I still wanted to say thanks for posting the video.
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Apr 20, 2022 16:34
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CommieGIR posted:We have open audio recordings of Russian troops being told to kill any civilians they find. Its beyond nuts that this isn't being hammered. Well if it's any consolation, a lot of those murders and their leadership are going to be dead by the end of this thing.
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Apr 20, 2022 16:41
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"A Ukrainian tank blows up a Russian BMP by firing through a building in Luhansk." https://va.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ram7jkoVYB1vmay6q.mp4 "American volunteers in Ukraine" https://va.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ram82udGTK1vmay6q.mp4
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Apr 20, 2022 16:41
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CommieGIR posted:We have open audio recordings of Russian troops being told to kill any civilians they find. Its beyond nuts that this isn't being hammered. Yeah, I was just listening to one. At this point I’m just waiting for proof those filtration camps are just concentration (in the German post wwii context) or death camps. Even after this war ends Russian soldiers and officials will be turning up dead for decades.
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Apr 20, 2022 16:46
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psydude posted:Well if it's any consolation, a lot of those murders and their leadership are going to be dead by the end of this thing. Not enough to remove the intentional slaughter of civilians from the arsenal of every decision-making level in Russia. That these acts are part of the plan and not isolated instances of soldiers behaving badly in wartime is making me think pretty poorly of their society.
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Apr 20, 2022 16:47
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Oh that reminds me they figured out the identity of the "it's okay to rape if you use condoms" couple
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Apr 20, 2022 16:48
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Proud Christian Mom posted:Some dipshits with 40 ARs is not equivalent at all to us littering the countryside with anti armor weapons and high explosives I get your point but also police depts all around the country have just stupid amounts of armor, explosives etc that they likely don't need. Not hard to envision a scenario where the local police dept just says lol no to the mayor and/or gov and has defacto rule. Hell Portland, OR seems to be on that trajectory as it is.
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Apr 20, 2022 16:54
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That Works posted:I get your point but also police depts all around the country have just stupid amounts of armor, explosives etc that they likely don't need. Not hard to envision a scenario where the local police dept just says lol no to the mayor and/or gov and has defacto rule. Hell Portland, OR seems to be on that trajectory as it is. Not hard to envision a scenario where that police chief gets shot dead by state National Guard troops, either
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Apr 20, 2022 16:57
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That Works posted:I get your point but also police depts all around the country have just stupid amounts of armor, explosives etc that they likely don't need. Not hard to envision a scenario where the local police dept just says lol no to the mayor and/or gov and has defacto rule. Hell Portland, OR seems to be on that trajectory as it is. If a police chief or whoever does that it's literally an armed uprising and the state government is wholly within their power to call up NG troops to put down an armed uprising, if need be,
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Apr 20, 2022 17:00
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ekuNNN posted:"American volunteers in Ukraine" "We Push."
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Apr 20, 2022 17:02
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orange juche posted:If a police chief or whoever does that it's literally an armed uprising and the state government is wholly within their power to call up NG troops to put down an armed uprising, if need be, Lol who do you think is pushing the police to have all that gear. Hint. It's the state governments.
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Apr 20, 2022 17:04
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zoux posted:Not hard to envision a scenario where that police chief gets shot dead by state National Guard troops, either orange juche posted:If a police chief or whoever does that it's literally an armed uprising and the state government is wholly within their power to call up NG troops to put down an armed uprising, if need be, Yes right, and an open conflict between city and state level militias isn't exactly a feature of "stable countries".
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Apr 20, 2022 17:27
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Well now I want to see someone try and hold up a liquor store with a towed 155
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Apr 20, 2022 17:37
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Madurai posted:Well now I want to see someone try and hold up a liquor store with a towed 155  I do believe I have you covered.
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Apr 20, 2022 17:40
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EFB with a better reference. Madurai posted:Well now I want to see someone try and hold up a liquor store with a towed 155
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Apr 20, 2022 17:42
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CainFortea posted:Lol who do you think is pushing the police to have all that gear. Hint. It's the state governments. The military/industrial complex needs to sell more guns and armored cars Answer? Militarize our police. Then we get yahoos who want to fire heavy weapons but not have to deal with, you know, military training, military discipline and a NCO corps who is going to chew your rear end into tiny shreds if you gently caress up just a little. They get the guns and a 'blue lives matter' mentality protecting them, plus a strong union.
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Apr 20, 2022 17:48
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Jasper Tin Neck posted:Organized crime in Europe regularly uses weaponry from the Yugoslav wars, so it's not a completely unfounded concern, just a really minor concern compared to a warlike dictatorship hellbent on conquering its former territories. The collapse and splintering of the region no doubt helped to facilitate that. If Ukraine holds together and the government/military does not collapse then I expect it to be a relatively minor issue, esp. since they reportedly have much better inventory controls these days. The Russian stuff, however... discount black market ahead!
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Apr 20, 2022 18:01
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Sentinel posted:"We Push." That exchanged look is darkly funny.
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Apr 20, 2022 19:12
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That Works posted:I get your point but also police depts all around the country have just stupid amounts of armor, explosives etc that they likely don't need. Not hard to envision a scenario where the local police dept just says lol no to the mayor and/or gov and has defacto rule. Hell Portland, OR seems to be on that trajectory as it is. There isn't a single major city in America that has positive civilian control over it's police force.
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Apr 20, 2022 19:26
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Proud Christian Mom posted:There isn't a single major city in America that has positive civilian control over it's police force. I can definitely see how this is relevant to the conflict in Ukraine.
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Apr 20, 2022 20:05
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https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1516883853431955456 Oh no NATO fell right into Putin's trap 
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Apr 20, 2022 22:17
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zoux posted:https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1516883853431955456 Man, Fox News Russia is almost worse than ours. Almost.
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Apr 20, 2022 22:18
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Honestly the thing that scares me now is how quickly and horribly NATO would destroy any and all conventional Russian forces. Which means Russia would have to fall back on their nukes out of sheer necessity.
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Apr 20, 2022 22:22
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FrozenVent posted:Idk America has been bursting at the seams with weapons for a while and it seems relatively stable, spicy capitol tourism excluded. this goddamn thread has had me using "spicy" in non-traditional ways in real life that confuse the straights
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Apr 20, 2022 22:23
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psydude posted:Honestly the thing that scares me now is how quickly and horribly NATO would destroy any and all conventional Russian forces. Which means Russia would have to fall back on their nukes out of sheer necessity. I was thinking along those lines also.
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Apr 20, 2022 22:26
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ASAPI posted:I was thinking along those lines also. Maybe after destroying their conventional forces in Ukraine, Russia will refrain from attacking a NATO country. Then they won't have to fall back on anything.
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Apr 20, 2022 22:27
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They ain’t gonna do poo poo, they are stomping around and having a tantrum. If they think NATO stores are going to be exhausted, they should take a look in their own depots.
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Apr 20, 2022 22:40
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zoux posted:https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1516883853431955456 I really appreciate how Russia's panel TV shows all look like some incredibly weird 80's/90's game show.
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Apr 20, 2022 22:43
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BeastOfExmoor posted:I really appreciate how Russia's panel TV shows all look like some incredibly weird 80's/90's game show. Yeah it's like they're playing a solo version of Family Fortune but every topic is 'give me your far right manifesto on'
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Apr 20, 2022 22:47
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psydude posted:Honestly the thing that scares me now is how quickly and horribly NATO would destroy any and all conventional Russian forces. Which means Russia would have to fall back on their nukes out of sheer necessity. This is adjacent to "I'm scared Russia will use its nukes if we don't let them seize European countries" and since that's not compatible with any kind of international order I think we've found ourselves in a situation where we're going to have to come up with a real solution after deferring for so many decades. Calling their bluff may work this time (it still may not) but it won't work when they're fully backed into a corner. Tiny Timbs fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Apr 20, 2022 |
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Apr 20, 2022 23:05
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psydude posted:Honestly the thing that scares me now is how quickly and horribly NATO would destroy any and all conventional Russian forces. Which means Russia would have to fall back on their nukes out of sheer necessity. I've seen a bit of this going around and I don't think that really follows. Maybe if NATO was actually invading Russia, sure, but there's zero percent chance that will actually happen. Conversely, in the event of Russian invading a neighbor, well what would they nuke and to what end? There's so many cogs in the ways that the US (and only many more once you bring in NATO) fights a war, most of which have redundancies built in, that there's not much to accomplish with limited use of nuclear weapons. More significantly: if Russia is at the point where they feel utterly, totally outclassed conventionally to the point where they're conventionally completely ineffective against the US or NATO, I don't think the thinking really becomes 'ah so we should initiate a nuclear exchange, which we will totally win!' Also the current situation in Ukraine is close enough to this hypothetical scenario that I think the Russian response is revealing. Ukraine is currently shredding the Russian military alive, albeit certainly more slowly than the combined might of NATO would, and still Russia's messaging is going more into pretending it isn't happening than agitating for further escalation, to say nothing of using nukes. The sinking of the moskva did lead to more calls to escalate, though it is very up in the air whether they actually have the ability to conduct a new offensive and even that didn't lead to any rumblings about using nukes.
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Apr 20, 2022 23:58
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zoux posted:They ain’t gonna do poo poo, they are stomping around and having a tantrum. If they think NATO stores are going to be exhausted, they should take a look in their own depots. I'd like to think NATO learned a lesson from its operations in Libya. It seems that way, but I dont know.
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Apr 21, 2022 00:03
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Herstory Begins Now posted:More significantly: if Russia is at the point where they feel utterly, totally outclassed conventionally to the point where they're conventionally completely ineffective against the US or NATO, I don't think the thinking really becomes 'ah so we should initiate a nuclear exchange, which we will totally win!' I know Russians have floated the idea that not being able to retake Ukraine poses an "existential threat to the existence of the Russian state" but I really don't see it. A Russia that doesn't agitate against its neighbors is a Russia the rest of the world would be happy to have productive relations with. The problem is that may not matter if enough of their chain of command is crazy enough to see failure in Ukraine or in some future assault on a NATO country that way but I suppose that's nothing new.
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Apr 21, 2022 00:14
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Sup, I’ve been in rehab this past month and cannot possibly get caught up with the thread. Can someone please help a brother out by giving me the skinny on what’s going on with the war? I’ll read back a couple of pages but that’s the most I can manage. Appreciate y’all.
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Apr 21, 2022 00:16
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The general vibe I’m getting is the Ukrainians are getting more help and are still kicking rear end.
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Apr 21, 2022 00:25
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TheWeedNumber posted:Sup, I’ve been in rehab this past month and cannot possibly get caught up with the thread. Can someone please help a brother out by giving me the skinny on what’s going on with the war? I’ll read back a couple of pages but that’s the most I can manage. Appreciate y’all. I don't have the time to give the specifics that someone undoubtedly but, yes Ukraine is fighting very well against Russia with lots of NATO/Western arms supporting. Also wanted to say congrats on getting through rehab, I hope you were able to get what you needed out of it or at least it was another step forward.
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Apr 21, 2022 00:49
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Big news is that Ukraine used two Neptune missiles and a drone to sink the Moskva (née Slava), the flagship of the Russian Black Sea fleet. Extreme loss of life and Russia is having a conniption trying to both claim it was an "ammunitions mishap" and also use it as casus belli
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Apr 21, 2022 01:03
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Congrats on the rehab my dude
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Apr 21, 2022 01:11
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Soul Dentist posted:Big news is that Ukraine used two Neptune missiles and a drone to sink the Moskva (née Slava), the flagship of the Russian Black Sea fleet. Extreme loss of life and Russia is having a conniption trying to both claim it was an "ammunitions mishap" and also use it as casus belli That’s hot. Also thank you for the well wishes friends.
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Apr 21, 2022 01:14
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