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4x times the howitzers in the next aid package, 72. And 144k rounds. And trucks to pull them around. CNN ran a brief a minute ago. That steel plant looks and sounds like some CoD designer's wet dream.
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Apr 21, 2022 16:07
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Budzilla posted:I would ask the GBS/DnD China thread thread but I think this would be a more appropriate place to ask. How does this war effect the Chinese military? A lot of their equipment is based on Soviet and Russian technology, would they be looking at this conflict and be thinking "holy poo poo we have to make our own equipment to be on parity with NATO standard". Or will they blame training/logisitcs etc..? "It's not the size that counts, it's how you use it." It's hard to tell just how bad the Russian military tech is when they're not using any of it properly. So China's lessons learned from this might be more along the lines of "make sure we maintain our equipment and don't sacrifice good planning for complete secrecy". I'm sure since this started military planners around the world have been drawing up "Sustain/Improve" lists for both sides.
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Apr 21, 2022 16:07
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Budzilla posted:I would ask the GBS/DnD China thread thread but I think this would be a more appropriate place to ask. How does this war effect the Chinese military? A lot of their equipment is based on Soviet and Russian technology, would they be looking at this conflict and be thinking "holy poo poo we have to make our own equipment to be on parity with NATO standard". Or will they blame training/logisitcs etc..? They’ve been modernizing at a very, very, intense and deliberate pace. Included with that modernization is a fair amount of their own weapons systems and technologies. See: J-20.
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Apr 21, 2022 16:38
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Murgos posted:Big, if true. The only realistic way this happens is if the assault troops are in mutiny and less scared of Russia than of fighting. I think this is also an interesting perspective... https://twitter.com/ABarbashin/status/1517060538223767560 https://twitter.com/ABarbashin/status/1517060541562372096
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Apr 21, 2022 16:40
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CRUSTY MINGE posted:That steel plant looks and sounds like some CoD designer's wet dream.  This is what I imagine
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Apr 21, 2022 16:54
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Goddamn the MIC is good. https://twitter.com/beverstine/status/1517155485375377411?s=21&t=k7lKEV6_FGCWlNaX4a6TFw https://twitter.com/beverstine/status/1517161617514975234?s=21&t=CmXyUxJzkPsH1nOYBZEiiQ Marshal Prolapse fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Apr 21, 2022 |
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Apr 21, 2022 16:59
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CRUSTY MINGE posted:4x times the howitzers in the next aid package, 72. And 144k rounds. And trucks to pull them around. CNN ran a brief a minute ago. Eh I’d say more 40K, that place is Manufacturoum AF.
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Apr 21, 2022 17:03
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Something that famously rises from the dead and something that is dead. I guess Jesus Corpse was taken?
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Apr 21, 2022 17:18
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Budzilla posted:I would ask the GBS/DnD China thread thread but I think this would be a more appropriate place to ask. How does this war effect the Chinese military? A lot of their equipment is based on Soviet and Russian technology, would they be looking at this conflict and be thinking "holy poo poo we have to make our own equipment to be on parity with NATO standard". Or will they blame training/logisitcs etc..? The TFR Cold War thread periodically features Chinachat with some posters who do high-level china-watching for the DoD. Short answer is that China's "holy poo poo" moment was Gulf War 1, and they're probably looking at the current war as validation of a lot of the decisions they've made since then, but it's very difficult to tell what long-term lessons they might take away - partly because of a lack of transparency but also because the dust hasn't settled yet. The biggest question there right now is What Does This Mean For Taiwan, and I don't think that's answerable until we have a more complete picture of what this means for Ukraine and Russia.
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Apr 21, 2022 17:18
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Marshal Prolapse posted:Goddamn the MIC is good. Spitballing, the changes could be relatively lightweight stuff like making the control software run on a tablet instead of a custom computer. Maybe localizing the GUI language to Russian or Ukrainian. Painting them dark green instead of light tan. I'm basing this supposition on my 0% knowledge of the Switchblade drone or the capabilities of that company lol
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Apr 21, 2022 17:19
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Uncle Enzo posted:Spitballing, the changes could be relatively lightweight stuff like making the control software run on a tablet instead of a custom computer. Maybe localizing the GUI language to Russian or Ukrainian. Painting them dark green instead of light tan. Nah. The name Phoenix indicates that it's self immolating invisible geese, designed in Hunter Biden's nazi biolabs. They are designed to only target Russian DNA.
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Apr 21, 2022 17:26
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Uncle Enzo posted:Spitballing, the changes could be relatively lightweight stuff like making the control software run on a tablet instead of a custom computer. Maybe localizing the GUI language to Russian or Ukrainian. Painting them dark green instead of light tan. Still these are kind of World War II speed fixes, as opposed to normal development, which I never thought would happen again. Arsenal of Democracy 2.0
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Apr 21, 2022 17:32
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FrozenVent posted:From what I heard China’s military suffers from a lot of the same issues, so their might be some corruption purges coming. Other people have said this, but yeah - they're already way down that path of reform. A while back, I want to say about a decade/15 years ago, they had a public report talking about "the three incapabilities" which IIRC said that the current version of their military was 1. Incapable of winning the kind historical battles they've been in; 2. Incapable of winning in a modern battlefield environment; and 3. Incapable of winning in a future combat scenario. Ever since then, they've been developing across the board - equipment, tactics, etc. Whether they're actually capable or not these days is probably unknowable until something actually kicks off, but I can pretty much guarantee they're taking careful notes on both the military situation and the geopolitical response.
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Apr 21, 2022 17:33
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Have they discovered the concept of "sergeants"
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Apr 21, 2022 17:35
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How does the PLA do inventory control?
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Apr 21, 2022 17:49
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zoux posted:Have they discovered the concept of "sergeants" Here’s a question…. I may not have my facts correct which could invalidate everything, so please correct me if I’m wrong. The US policy of a strong professional NCO corp working alongside enlisted and officers seems to have a proven track record. Perhaps, aside from some troubles during Vietnam and the transition from the draft to an all volunteer service, it’s always worked. Is it the only way? Have other armed services implemented a different approach and had it work? Clearly the Soviet approach worked in the second half of WWII, but they were defending their home.
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Apr 21, 2022 17:59
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I think that the withdrawal from the steel works is because Putin doesn't want to give Ukraine their very own Stalingrad Tractor Factory. I'm sure someone must have finally pointed out that the propaganda value of "a handful of plucky defenders hold a wrecked strategic position against waves of foreign invaders" MAY just start to resonate with the inhabitants of the Motherland at some point.
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Apr 21, 2022 18:03
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Do any other countries run anything at all similar (ie brigade sized) to the US's combat training centers? Just about everything Russia is loving up is something a unit has also hosed up at a CTC rotation at some point in time.
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Apr 21, 2022 18:27
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It's been a while since China has been something I really dug into, but back in 2018 they were doing another rapid modernization to their force because they realized they had a number of issues. Their individual soldier equipment was antiquated. They didn't have body armor for their soldiers, night vision, optics (or even rails) on their QZB family of weapons. This was a video they released 4 years ago that shows what they thought was effective training. You can observe the equipment shortfalls there. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlYZXwGDxSk They have attempted to change this, and have equipment resembling US personnel now, but it's basically only in their premier SOF formations and not general issue. Next is their vehicles. While they have done well to conduct industrial espionage at scale, they get piecemeal data and try to extrapolate. While the J20 looks like an F35, it doesn't have anywhere near the avionics, engine, or armaments' as it's counterpart. This is fairly true across the board, and until a year ago, China still imported a number of key parts of their force from Russia, namely Jet Engines. https://nationalinterest.org/blog/reboot/engine-problems-why-chinas-j-20-stealth-fighter-cant-beat-americas-f-22-or-f-35-164346 Finally, they have a huge demographics problem. Boomers like to talk poo poo about American Millenials and Zoomers, but China has a much bigger issue. The One-Child policy made it so they have more men than women, which would usually be a good thing for sending disposable soldiers into a meat grinder. Unfortunately the rapid industrialization has also made a much larger middle class, which has created the little emperor's syndrome. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23306438/ They are less likely to participate in the military and avoid service at a greater degree, or hold positions of power that keep them from harms way. It basically runs parallel to McNamara's folly from Vietnam. The middle class kids can get out of conscription, so it leaves the extremely poor and those not smart enough to game the system. Not exactly the kind of people you want fighting your wars.
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Apr 21, 2022 18:29
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What's with the weird choreographed movements? Looks like an army that's just for show.
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Apr 21, 2022 18:37
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Oxygenpoisoning posted:It's been a while since China has been something I really dug into, but back in 2018 they were doing another rapid modernization to their force because they realized they had a number of issues. They really like to sling and unsling their weapons a bunch. While running. I would love to see some actual "training" being conducted, the video was very choreographed. Things like that video were never considered "good training" when I was in...
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Apr 21, 2022 18:51
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Mustang posted:What's with the weird choreographed movements? Looks like an army that's just for show. That's crazy talk. Next you'll be telling me that axe throwing while flipping is just for show.
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Apr 21, 2022 18:54
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Its necessary to do a tactical flip before firing your weapon. You know to try to look EXTRA cool.
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Apr 21, 2022 18:55
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Crini posted:Is it the only way? Have other armed services implemented a different approach and had it work? Clearly the Soviet approach worked in the second half of WWII, but they were defending their home. There's probably a hundred goons in here who know more about this than me, but I've been reading a bit about the eastern front recently and its really adjusted my perception about the Russian military in that conflict. It seems like the Russian's were very much helped by Hitler and the Nazis being loving idiots who were unwilling to rethink their strategy once things got bogged down until the Soviets (who still had a lot of equipment and people) eventually overwhelmed them.
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Apr 21, 2022 18:55
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Do the Chinese actually have any 'recent', real combat experience? A number of western nations have been engaged in the ME and Africa the past generation. Has China have anything to learn from any actual engagements?
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Apr 21, 2022 18:55
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*does a combat roll before blindly firing my weapon into some weeds*
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Apr 21, 2022 18:56
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The Imp of Nipples posted:Do the Chinese actually have any 'recent', real combat experience? A number of western nations have been engaged in the ME and Africa the past generation. Has China have anything to learn from any actual engagements? China participates in some African peacekeeping missions to try to gain practical experience, but I'm not sure how extensively.
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Apr 21, 2022 18:59
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The Imp of Nipples posted:Do the Chinese actually have any 'recent', real combat experience? A number of western nations have been engaged in the ME and Africa the past generation. Has China have anything to learn from any actual engagements? Not of any vast scale, mainly border skirmishes between India and Vietnam. Uncle Enzo posted:*does a combat roll before blindly firing my weapon into some weeds* If you liked that propaganda video, wait until you see the glorious e-tool one. https://youtu.be/pGdbbEZVHqw
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Apr 21, 2022 19:01
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Author Colin Clarke on Russia's disaster in Ukraine — and what happens next This war's not over, Clarke warns, but Russia's no longer a great power: It's a "gas station with nuclear weapons" https://www.salon.com/2022/04/19/colin-clarke-truth-facts-ukraine/
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Apr 21, 2022 19:05
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Oxygenpoisoning posted:Not of any vast scale, mainly border skirmishes between India and Vietnam. how many payments of 19.99??
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Apr 21, 2022 19:10
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Oxygenpoisoning posted:
Shield and grapple starting at 3:58 are my two favorites.
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Apr 21, 2022 19:24
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Bored As gently caress posted:Author Colin Clarke on Russia's disaster in Ukraine — and what happens next quote:One of the big stories I see, in terms of international relations and diplomacy and statecraft, is the concept of great power competition. With that language we are thinking about the United States, China and Russia. The war in Ukraine shows us that Russia does not belong in that conversation anymore. Russia is not a great power, it's essentially a gas station with nuclear weapons. The Russian military has performed so poorly, dar worse than anyone could have expected, including many defense planners in the United States, who built the Russians up to be 10 feet tall. I remember reading an article from a Russia focused defense analyst who said, paraphrasing, "I spent the first part of my career trying to convince people the Russian military wasn't 10 feet tall, now I'm going to have to spend the rest of it convincing people it isn't two feet tall" which I found funny. Also is "good offensive military" the only definition of "great power"? I'd argue that it must include things like economic power, soft power, and power projection, and in my estimation, the only great power that existed in the world after the collapse of the USSR is the one with 11 carrier strike groups and global cultural hegemony.
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Apr 21, 2022 19:34
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glynnenstein posted:China participates in some African peacekeeping missions to try to gain practical experience, but I'm not sure how extensively. They're a top-10 contributor, but as far as raw numbers go there just aren't that many troops deployed from any one country. As of January they had 2,200 people deployed as peacekeepers. https://peacekeeping.un.org/en/troop-and-police-contributors
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Apr 21, 2022 19:50
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glynnenstein posted:China participates in some African peacekeeping missions to try to gain practical experience, but I'm not sure how extensively. Is that to gain practical experience? My take on it was that China is trying to expand its sphere of influence by building infrastructure projects in other countries - how valuable those projects are to said host countries being a topic of debate. But one of the big caveats is that China often does most/all of the construction, security, and often the labor and operations once those facilities are complete.
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Apr 21, 2022 19:52
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zoux posted:Also is "good offensive military" the only definition of "great power"? I'd argue that it must include things like economic power, soft power, and power projection Absolutely agreed. In which case Russia has absolutely screwed the pooch. Its economy is a propped up zombie, every IT worker is lying at the border to try and escape the country, even its supposed friends India and China aren't picking up its calls, and it can't even keep its own flagship afloat. Isn't there an expression that all militaries are poo poo, just some of them less poo poo? Countries are probably the same.
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Apr 21, 2022 19:57
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GD_American posted:The eternal grain of salt notwithstanding, This guy made it to the NYT: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/21/world/europe/russia-moskva-warship-disinformation.html
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Apr 21, 2022 20:06
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Uncle Enzo posted:Isn't there an expression that all militaries are poo poo, just some of them less poo poo? Countries are probably the same. “War is graded on a curve” is the one I always heard. Made a retired LTC mad with it, so it’s got at least some truth behind it 
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Apr 21, 2022 20:07
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BeastOfExmoor posted:There's probably a hundred goons in here who know more about this than me, but I've been reading a bit about the eastern front recently and its really adjusted my perception about the Russian military in that conflict. It seems like the Russian's were very much helped by Hitler and the Nazis being loving idiots who were unwilling to rethink their strategy once things got bogged down until the Soviets (who still had a lot of equipment and people) eventually overwhelmed them. Something that stood out to me is despite the perception Soviet manpower was endless they could not have continued to function indefinitely losing hundreds of thousands of guys to encirclements and got much better about avoiding those as the war progressed and the generals were able to make better decisions other than "counter attack immediately!" But near the end of the war although they still had a large army they were starting to get low on reserves, similar to how the British had few replacements available as they were already committed. Except their foe was in far worse shape by that point. I think someone compared Stalin to trump and while I agree there may be some parallels regarding propaganda, no way in hell trump is staying in Moscow during the invasion and not fleeing as far east as possible with stuffed suitcases and no transition plan.
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Apr 21, 2022 20:07
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zoux posted:I remember reading an article from a Russia focused defense analyst who said, paraphrasing, "I spent the first part of my career trying to convince people the Russian military wasn't 10 feet tall, now I'm going to have to spend the rest of it convincing people it isn't two feet tall" which I found funny. That's not a bad way to look at it in my understanding (civilian who reads a lot of history). But that's the thing though, Russia was thought to have greater power projection/offensive military power than they've been shown to have. Since their economic stature and soft power were already nothing special, this is the "proof" that they've truly lost "great power" status, for what that's worth.
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Apr 21, 2022 20:13
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DJ_Mindboggler posted:That's not a bad way to look at it in my understanding (civilian who reads a lot of history). But that's the thing though, Russia was thought to have greater power projection/offensive military power than they've been shown to have. Since their economic stature and soft power were already nothing special, this is the "proof" that they've truly lost "great power" status, for what that's worth. The biggest challenge to this I would make is that the USSR was a great power within living memory - especially among the political leadership of most countries. Collective memory lasts a long time and there are multiple international organizations built in part or in whole to maintain the balance of power with the USSR/Russia. Chances are they lost that status years ago, the USSR was a crumbling empire when it fell and it apparently hasn't regained that stature. This war in Ukraine is just opening a lot of peoples' eyes to that, and to the value of alliances/cooperation among nations.
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Apr 21, 2022 20:18
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