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Dancer fucked around with this message at 10:13 on Apr 21, 2022 |
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Apr 21, 2022 09:57
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Aramoro posted:Also if promotion of KS games is bad then why aren't we boycotting BGG, the main page is just a carousel advertising Kickstarters? I like this post. I believe it to be argued in good faith, and attempts to present a counter-example. This is a good question. Outright boycotting BGG is likely an impossibility since they are a defacto monopoly as a database. There is no Bing or AskJeeves that you could use if you wanted to boycott Google, as far as I'm aware, except for ones that just steal all their data from BGG anyway. You could use an ad blocker and only use it for reference and never engage with the social network elements, which is probably wise anyway because that community is getting better but it is still a dumpster fire. To do more, a user could say, "I will not financially support BGG during its annual pledge drive if they accept money from Kickstarters due to their environmentally destructive policies regarding crypto." But should that instead be, "if they accept money from Van Ryder / CMON" or whomstever? That gets sort of deep into the weeds which can make it harder for this type of thing to gain purchase. It may be more effective to remain focused on something unambiguous. For BGG, it's possible they could be moved. People did get relatively early movement on some things by being vocal; they were comparatively early in the trad games space for voicing support for BLM. I think the issue is that awareness that racism is wrong is at a much higher saturation point than knowing that crypto is wrong. (Even if it doesn't feel like it sometimes.) I don't wish to derail things any more than they already are, and I certainly know nothing about how to get other people to do things, but if a content creator or platform is supporting Kickstarter and you wish them to stop, all you can probably do is tell them politely. No threats, no ire, no outrage, just information. Understand that this relates to these people's livelihoods, so they may be defensive about it.
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Apr 21, 2022 10:21
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Magnetic North posted:I don't wish to derail things any more than they already are, and I certainly know nothing about how to get other people to do things, but if a content creator or platform is supporting Kickstarter and you wish them to stop, all you can probably do is tell them politely. No threats, no ire, no outrage, just information. Understand that this relates to these people's livelihoods, so they may be defensive about it. I don't think this is a derail because Mayveena brought it up as a topic to talk about not even indirectly supporting KS, but that's an aside. I think what you talk about there is really important, how do you work with reviewing and presenting boardgames right now and not touch Kickstarter to some degree. I think Autobahn look pretty good, but it's a Kickstarter game so am I promoting Kickstarter if I talk about it just now? Do I have to wait for a retail release? If I was a Youtube channel reviewing games then waiting for retail means you might as well not bother talking about it. It seems more practical to do as suggested and simply not back games on KS and instead pick them up on Gamefound/Backerit etc instead with the $1 pledge, and encourage everyone else to do the same.
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Apr 21, 2022 11:55
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It's best to be an informed consumer. The world isn't going to end because you back a game you like on Kickstarter, or talk about games Goons might enjoy. Most of that chat is relegated to the Crowdfunding thread anyway Back things for a $1 if you can. Pay full price if you don't have the option. The industry will move away from KS over time, which is what appears to be happening slowly. Goons should be able to talk about what they want where they want.  Aramoro posted:I think Autobahn look pretty good Gives me heavy Brass Birmingham vibes and I'm all for it
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Apr 21, 2022 13:57
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Traveled to visit family over the Easter weekend and I had plans to play some new 3+ player games I picked up since Xmas but when I arrived I learned my cousin had caught Covid and had to isolate, so I ended up just trying out a couple of 2+ player games instead. Parks is fantastic! I guess I would call it a resource collector (I'm sure there's a proper word for it) and it's pretty light and fast to play but with meaningful choices to make and effective ways to disrupt your opponent without it being too punishing. Its presentation is top notch, too, with a strong theme and beautiful, evocative art. If I could give one piece of advice it would be don't sleep on the camera! It's good for bleeding off tokens when you're near the cap and those photo points really add up. It has a solo mode too so I guess it's not really a 2+ player game, but I haven't tried that yet. Unmatched is one I knew I would like the first time I watched a Youtube of it, and I was right. It's a lightweight tactical battler where you choose a character and then use their unique ability and their 30-card deck to attack and maneuver around your opponent on a small game board. It's easy to get the hang of and plays fast, but a couple of our games were a bit anticlimactic when we realized you can run away from a player with an empty deck and they'll die of exhaustion (if you have to draw a card and you have none left you take two damage instead, and if your opponent isn't in range of you chances are the only action you can take is one which requires you to draw cards). It's a good rule because it prevents stalemates, but I guess the lesson to take away is that being aggressive is important. Both games have good boxes with inserts for all their cards and pieces, but one thing that annoys me about almost every game I've played is that when you sleeve the cards they don't fit into the box at all. So I was surprised when Unmatched not only had enough vertical room for sleeved cards, but the card holding parts also had enough width and length. At least on the base game, Cobble & Fog, and the Red Riding Hood vs Beowulf expansion. For some reason the Jurassic Park expansion's card holding section was too small. But yeah, this is a problem for me (well not really a problem, I just use another box for the cards) because if a card can be sleeved then it must be sleeved! No exceptions! This means that buying new board games (a recent hobby of mine since Xmas 2021) also involves a bit of extra messing around trying to find vendors that have the sleeves I need in stock. I'm sure everyone here is aware of this site but I don't think it's in the OP: https://www.sleeveyourgames.com/ There's also a BGG thread about the same thing which I've had to resort to once or twice, but Sleeve Your Games usually has the game in question listed. And one last thing about this topic for Ausgoons is that I've had some trouble finding the sleeves I need in stock at most of our vendors, online or otherwise, but I did come across this local Ebay store which seems to have everything in stock, including a lot of the more obscure brands you don't see in this country: https://www.ebay.com.au/str/thecardandtrinket I've ordered from them a couple of times now and they've been good, if a little slow, but that's more Australia Post's fault I think.
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Apr 21, 2022 14:26
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Infinitum posted:Doing some window shopping at the shops and now I own Ark Nova It's nowhere in stock here but I feel like I am going to take the risk and grab it based on the Hype™. Lord knows if it isn't what I hope it is I'll be tracking down each and every poster here and giving them some harsh language.
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Apr 21, 2022 15:05
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Mayveena posted:Calling someone stupid is an opinion?? Using religious words in a disrespectful way is an opinion, really? Anyone can say they think a specific thing is stupid. But you don’t call people stupid in this thread. I have no idea what the gently caress you are talking about. Please quote where the probed people expressed an actual opinion. jarofpiss posted:no im just trying to suggest y’all might be happier if you break out of the lib brain “vote with your dollar” activism by consumption trap because there is no logical consistency to it and it never ends Leper Colony posted:You really need to let go of your need to attack anti-blockchain Kickstarter protest posts. Even if you find their unethical consumption by still participating in society to be hypocritical. This is not the thread to pick this fight over and over. User loses posting privileges for 1 day. It's explicitly the moderators' position that protesting Kickstarter for blockchain is a good and true position, and arguing against it is probatable. The subtext underlining all these sorts of topics that come up is that liberalism is Truth and apolitical, and that anyone who disagrees is supposed to just sit there and keep their mouths shut if they want to continue participating in the board game thread, like having Thanksgiving with your Libertarian uncle. Personally I'd just as soon leave politics out of the thread, but if we're going to have it then we should let people discuss issues with a presumption of good faith instead of name-calling and tone-policing posters and then acting aggrieved by their rudeness. Edit: Sorry for making GBS threads up the thread with another post about the very thing I hate but I got sick of holding my tongue about it.
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Apr 21, 2022 15:13
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FulsomFrank posted:...I feel like I am going to take the risk and grab it based on the Hype™. Always a wise decision. A person at my game group was saying he sold his first copy of Ark Nova at a £60 profit, then bought his current edition of the second printing for £60, making it "a free game"
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Apr 21, 2022 15:23
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PerniciousKnid posted:Personally I'd just as soon leave politics out of the thread . . . To be fair, the second post of the OP is just a gigantic list of things to be pissed off about in board games. It kind of sets the tone. Leraika posted:Does anyone have any suggestions for physically small and rules light games? And when I say physically small, I mean 'can fit into a standard purse'. I've usually got Tussie Mussie on hand, but wouldn't mind some more options (anyone have any experience with Button Shy's other games?). I'll be there third person to say the Crew. Get rid of the box and use your phone for the documentation. Works well Funso Banjo fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Apr 21, 2022 |
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Apr 21, 2022 15:23
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PerniciousKnid posted:It's explicitly the moderators' position that protesting Kickstarter for blockchain is a good and true position, and arguing against it is probatable. Note that I did not put jarofpiss on probation for that post. That was an admin. Talk to them.
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Apr 21, 2022 15:25
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I have nothing but good things to say about Ark Nova. Terraforming Mars but better is perhaps the most apt description of it.
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Apr 21, 2022 15:45
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SettingSun posted:I have nothing but good things to say about Ark Nova. Terraforming Mars but better is perhaps the most apt description of it. You guys are killing me. FINE, I'LL BUY IT. Now convince me that I don't need a folded space insert to go along with it immediately. EDIT: Just got a reminder about 1888 China having two days left on it, do people have any thoughts? I personally wouldn't hesitate EXCEPT that last time I backed a Lonny game I not only got killed on shipping but also paid a fuckload in customs on a game that had no difference in it to the retail version. FulsomFrank fucked around with this message at 16:05 on Apr 21, 2022 |
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Apr 21, 2022 15:53
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As good as that sounds, I strongly suspect that my group will not be as excited about conservationalism as colonising Mars
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Apr 21, 2022 15:59
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PerniciousKnid posted:Personally I'd just as soon leave politics out of the thread, but if we're going to have it then we should let people discuss issues with a presumption of good faith instead of name-calling and tone-policing posters and then acting aggrieved by their rudeness. I think the only ones who have ever been probated for it are prada slut, who has a habit of trying to stir up trouble specifically about kickstarter and those who don't like it, and jarofpiss, who has posted outright that they don't actually care about any of this and have posted that they're only posting because they are upset about being probated half a year ago. No one else who has talked about it has been hit by a probation as far as I can tell.
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Apr 21, 2022 16:00
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RabidWeasel posted:As good as that sounds, I strongly suspect that my group will not be as excited about conservationalism as colonising Mars The theme really grew on me the more I played it, and perhaps it will for anyone else who has a passing interest in animals and/or zoos. That said, TfM's theme is like 95% of the reason I play it. Terraforming is just fascinating.
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Apr 21, 2022 16:06
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FulsomFrank posted:You guys are killing me. FINE, I'LL BUY IT. The inlay that comes with the game is enough imo. Maybe a deckbox or two for all the cards. And i made one bag per player with their cards and pieces. Setup takes like 5 minutes
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Apr 21, 2022 16:13
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I don't really get the Terraforming Mars comparison, the only thing they have in common is the the card drafting aspect, everything else is completely different. It was fine, but I'm not exactly eager to play it again over other games.
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Apr 21, 2022 16:13
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Aramoro posted:Looks like I better hope no one starts talking about how they think Keyflower is good then. I played Keyflower the other day and enjoyed it fite me irl.
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Apr 21, 2022 16:24
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Aramoro posted:Looks like I better hope no one starts talking about how they think Keyflower is good then. Hey I have a big history with Keyflower! My vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGtOvPefUGc
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Apr 21, 2022 16:33
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Magnetic North posted:This weekend I was doing BGA gaming, so me and two others played Similo. (It's Premium only, sorry.) It's similar to Codenames Pictures except the art is not abstract, but something specific. We played with the Fables set so each card was a fairy tale character, but there are others like Animals and Historical Figures. 16 are laid out and 1 is the secret character. The hint giver takes some of the remaining cards and places them vertical to indicate the character is similar, or vertically to indicate that the character is dissimilar, but otherwise will say nothing. So, perhaps the secret character is The Giant, so you pick Tinkerbell because she is small. The guessers will eliminate one character from the roster based on that hint, and so long as they don't eliminate the secret character, they game continues with another hint. The later rounds involve removing 2, 3, 4, and then 1 last character. I've played it a bit with folk on BGA and it seems fine I think, it's Guess Who with cards as clues. But I think Stella does a very similar feeling thing better.
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Apr 21, 2022 16:38
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Glagha posted:I played Keyflower the other day and enjoyed it fite me irl. Check a load of this idiot! Square go outside now.
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Apr 21, 2022 16:41
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I played a 3p game of Keyflower and really enjoyed how characterful discarding however many tiles makes it. I normally play it at higher player counts and those games tend to feel the same. I think I should get the Merchants expansion to dilute the pool a little.
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Apr 21, 2022 16:55
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I love Keyflower but it's a pain to teach. I've got either the Farmer or Merchant expansion, cannot recall. I just love building my little village up and the bidding is so much fun. It isn't bad two player either... VVVV ...AND the fact that auction games are inherently difficult to teach because the variability in value of tiles to someone without context on top of the fact that the winter tile auction is so critical. I had a friend blow up on his wife when she "accidentally" spite bid on the winter tile he had been aiming for and it embarrassed me how mad he got. FulsomFrank fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Apr 21, 2022 |
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Apr 21, 2022 17:00
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FulsomFrank posted:I love Keyflower but it's a pain to teach. I've got either the Farmer or Merchant expansion, cannot recall. I just love building my little village up and the bidding is so much fun. The two systems of auction and worker placement are kind of a pain, and then there's a flipping third system of moving goods and developing tiles that's just developed enough to be annoying to explain. I have also begun to hate how the background of every village tile is the same green grass. I have become convinced that they were fools to have the tiles you activate to do things the same colour palette as the tiles that you can't. Just make barns covered in autumnal leaves, and winter tiles covered in snow.
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Apr 21, 2022 17:11
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FulsomFrank posted:I love Keyflower but it's a pain to teach. I've got either the Farmer or Merchant expansion, cannot recall. I just love building my little village up and the bidding is so much fun. It's also not bad as a 6 player which is frankly an amazing accomplishment.
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Apr 21, 2022 17:23
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I dunno I had a fairly easy time teaching it when I played last, although the players in question were experienced board game players, I'm sure it'd be harder for a different audience.
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Apr 21, 2022 17:26
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Glagha posted:I played Keyflower the other day and enjoyed it fite me irl. I like the boats full of people. 
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Apr 21, 2022 18:35
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Funso Banjo posted:To be fair, the second post of the OP is just a gigantic list of things to be pissed off about in board games. It kind of sets the tone. There is a reason I elected to include that section and it's not for drama or to impose my own morals. For years and years I saw people in the last thread say, "Aw man, I didn't know that Phil Eklund was the worst human being on the planet. I sure wish I hadn't given him my money." So, I took the opportunity to try and afford people the information to make the decisions for themselves. A few other things, like the Broken Token felt like they warranted inclusion, so it grew from there. Whether directing someone's own money under capitalism is an effective form of protest is a big and worthwhile question but is completely outside of the purview of a thread about the consumption of luxury goods. The important thing is: it's their money, they can direct it as they see fit, and this information may assist them in that. You may not have noticed that that this was a problem that goons sincerely had, since your past post in the previous thread was in 2017. But now you know. I hope it makes the seriousness of the second OP make sense.
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Apr 21, 2022 19:03
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Mr. Squishy posted:The two systems of auction and worker placement are kind of a pain, and then there's a flipping third system of moving goods and developing tiles that's just developed enough to be annoying to explain. Lets not forget the incredible system of having action spots for you to use in everyone's Village so you end up having to peer across the table to see what folk have that you could use. There's that, the memory game of remembering everyone meeples, the system mastery of just knowing what's good to do. There are just so many niggles with Keyflower that I just genuinely cannot see why people like it so much. Ergo they must all be stupid.
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Apr 21, 2022 19:03
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You: This game is so complicated why do people like it. Me: I like building a village. Ha ha funny meeples go brrrrr Glagha fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Apr 21, 2022 |
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Apr 21, 2022 19:07
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FirstAidKite posted:With all that aside, I noticed the other day that an expansion for Quirky Circuits came out. That being said, this is an alternative (very cheap) standalone entry. It includes 2 robots, 1 of which is the simplest one from the original, and another which seems pretty similar. I would have actually preferred a full-on expansion (standalone or not) that builds up complexity-wise beyond that of the original game. The sushi chef (the most complex robot in the OG) is absolutely brilliant, and I would have liked to see other robots with that kind of clever design. So it doesn't look like this new entry is particularly for those who already have the original, but it is really cheap.
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Apr 21, 2022 19:12
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Aramoro posted:Lets not forget the incredible system of having action spots for you to use in everyone's Village so you end up having to peer across the table to see what folk have that you could use. There's that, the memory game of remembering everyone meeples, the system mastery of just knowing what's good to do. Using action spots in other players' villages is a cute conceit and the memory game is easily houseruled away by saying only blind draws go behind your screen and the rest of your meeples go in a pile everyone can see (which seems like a no brainer to me but the concept of trackable hidden information has actually had defenders itt before, so  )idk, maybe it is too fiddly for the payoff though, we hardly ever actually get around to playing it. the holy poopacy fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Apr 21, 2022 |
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Apr 21, 2022 20:08
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PerniciousKnid posted:It's explicitly the moderators' position that protesting Kickstarter for blockchain is a good and true position, and arguing against it is probatable. That is absolutely not our position. Our position is don't be a big rear end in a top hat or intentionally troll the thread; extended conversation about Kickstarter belongs in the Kickstarter thread, and extended conversation about the industry and its ills belong in the TG as an Industry thread. But all human activity is inherently political, and we cannot practically ban some level of political talk in any TG thread. Whether that's folks in the Magic or D&D threads talking about missteps at Wizards, or folks in the White Wolf thread talking about Paradox and Chechnya, it's going to happen. We ask people to be respectful and to not create huge derails. We ask you to not call each other idiots. We suggest making friends instead of enemies. FirstAidKite posted:I think the only ones who have ever been probated for it are prada slut, who has a habit of trying to stir up trouble specifically about kickstarter and those who don't like it, and jarofpiss, who has posted outright that they don't actually care about any of this and have posted that they're only posting because they are upset about being probated half a year ago. You're allowed to have a limited discussion here and give your positions if you can do that in some basic level of respectful way, yes. We're not hitting PRADA or jarofpiss or anyone else for merely not agreeing with the anti-kickstarter folks in here. Mayveena posted:Note that I did not put jarofpiss on probation for that post. That was an admin. Talk to them. It was me, just a mod. Although we've got an admin or two paying attention behind the scenes, they're not telling us what to do. Funso Banjo posted:To be fair, the second post of the OP is just a gigantic list of things to be pissed off about in board games. It kind of sets the tone. The OP of this thread represents Magnetic North's opinion; that's how OPs work. He sourced some of that from others in the thread, as a voluntary effort, and effort is appreciated! However, I do not hold exactly the same opinions and nobody should assume that he speaks for everyone in the thread either - threads aren't closed club houses with inviolable rules nailed to the front door by the OP, they're places anyone who spends ten bux on an SA account can share and use and post in. Several other posters post pro-kickstarter stuff without getting probated because they are not being jerks about it. There's even a kickstarter thread that is all about backing stuff on kickstarter, and that's part of the same community as this boardgame thread. We don't give the OP of this thread special powers in determining how we moderate it or what is or is not an acceptable opinion to post.
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Apr 21, 2022 20:37
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jesus christ just one week without this bull poo poo
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Apr 21, 2022 20:38
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Orange DeviI posted:jesus christ just one week without this bull poo poo man I would really like that too
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Apr 21, 2022 20:50
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Funso Banjo posted:To be fair, the second post of the OP is just a gigantic list of things to be pissed off about in board games. It kind of sets the tone. (I tried to link to the original quote by FB but it recursively linked to a post by Leperflesh.) Magnetic North posted:There is a reason I elected to include that section and it's not for drama or to impose my own morals. For years and years I saw people in the last thread say, "Aw man, I didn't know that Phil Eklund was the worst human being on the planet. I sure wish I hadn't given him my money." So, I took the opportunity to try and afford people the information to make the decisions for themselves. A few other things, like the Broken Token felt like they warranted inclusion, so it grew from there. Whether directing someone's own money under capitalism is an effective form of protest is a big and worthwhile question but is completely outside of the purview of a thread about the consumption of luxury goods. The important thing is: it's their money, they can direct it as they see fit, and this information may assist them in that. Does every issue brought up in the second post rise to the level of sexual assault? Of course not. But it's nice to have the reference so that people can be aware of these issues when spending their money and try to avoid what they might individually feel are the worst ethical pitfalls.
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Apr 21, 2022 20:52
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Leperflesh posted:The OP of this thread represents Magnetic North's opinion; that's how OPs work. He sourced some of that from others in the thread, as a voluntary effort, and effort is appreciated! However, I do not hold exactly the same opinions and nobody should assume that he speaks for everyone in the thread either - threads aren't closed club houses with inviolable rules nailed to the front door by the OP, they're places anyone who spends ten bux on an SA account can share and use and post in. Several other posters post pro-kickstarter stuff without getting probated because they are not being jerks about it. There's even a kickstarter thread that is all about backing stuff on kickstarter, and that's part of the same community as this boardgame thread. We don't give the OP of this thread special powers in determining how we moderate it or what is or is not an acceptable opinion to post. For the first and third posts in the OP, I agree wholeheartedly. They represent my opinion and that of goons. However, since the repeated threadshitting always stems out of things in the second post of the OP (it started last thread with Representation then evolved to Crypto and KDM) so let's narrow the scope to that. I'd like to say that I very seriously don't like the claim that the contents of the 2nd OP are 'opinion.' For the social issue section I have done my level best to make it as neutral, factual and evidence-based as possible. Of course, I may have some blindspots or oversights in there, since I am human. If there is a factual error I welcome anyone to PM me any suggested corrections with sources. Whether this type of information dissemination actually matters or is meaningful or worthwhile or helpful is all matter of opinion, but the facts themselves at issue are not. Leperflesh posted:man I would really like that too You literally have the power to stop this.
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Apr 21, 2022 20:54
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e: eh, let's not
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Apr 21, 2022 20:56
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If you disagree with the criticisms in the OP, let's hear it. Don't just vaguepost, specifically list what you disagree with so that we can all see it.
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Apr 21, 2022 21:11
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Llyranor posted:If you disagree with the criticisms in the OP, let's hear it. Don't just vaguepost, specifically list what you disagree with so that we can all see it. I agree. In the bad old days of gaming, the bad reputations of some industry figures traveled at the speed of rumor -- lightning fast across the globe, but very narrowly, and never widely reaching most people in time for them to act on the information. That's at least starting to change and the OP is a great resource for people who would act on any subset of that stuff, if only they were aware. Also, Infinitum posted:Goons should be able to talk about what they want where they want.
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Apr 21, 2022 21:25
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