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rydiafan posted:https://youtu.be/-1iaJWSwUZs I was literally about to post this. Shaun does an excellent breakdown of the lovely elements in Harry Potter in a way that makes you wonder how you missed it. For some reason the house elf heads mounted in Grimould Place didn’t bother me at all as a kid.
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Apr 20, 2022 23:03
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Alaois posted:remember Antz I remember the horrific battle against the termite nest, with all those soldiers screaming in agony as they got sprayed with acid.
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Apr 20, 2022 23:13
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Alaois posted:remember Antz Antz > Bugs Life
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Apr 20, 2022 23:20
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My mom told me she didn't like Antz because she doesn't like Woody Allen. Considering all the stuff I've learned in the past 4 years, it's too bad I never had a chance to ask her if there was anything deeper to that statement. Though regarding that movie, I suppose it could be argued that the princess is older than Z so at least he's not preying on a pupae or something
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Apr 20, 2022 23:22
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LASER BEAM DREAM posted:I was literally about to post this. Shaun does an excellent breakdown of the lovely elements in Harry Potter in a way that makes you wonder how you missed it. It's an evil house, there's gonna be evil things in it! Never mind that this thing specifically says some much worse things about the Wizarding World than I think Rowling meant to imply.
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Apr 20, 2022 23:32
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BaldDwarfOnPCP posted:I love OSC, unironically. And I hate his worldview sometimes but I can't separate my kid brain from his brain droppings. Years of therapy. The last Ender book, Children of the Mind, gave me a ton of ~trans feelings~ before I really understood them and figured myself out. The Ender's Shadow side-series, despite a really strong first book (seriously, it's impossible for me to believe that a school full of geniuses too smart for the first school full of geniuses, none of the kids figured out the horrifying revelation at the end of Ender's Game), almost immediately devolves past that first book into weird Mormon-poisoned bio-essentialism. And it's hard to forget that even in the end of the main Ender's Game series, Card's idea of a perfect marriage is literally monastic chastity.
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Apr 21, 2022 00:16
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I actually like the later ender books way more then enders game. Becoming a space prophet trying to atone for committing genocide is way more interesting then smart kid
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Apr 21, 2022 00:22
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bad sugarpop habit posted:The last Ender book, Children of the Mind, gave me a ton of ~trans feelings~ before I really understood them and figured myself out. I really liked Ender's Shadow too. I have a book of writing advice Card put out that's great also, or at least it really helped me.
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Apr 21, 2022 00:59
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I loving love Father Ted and always will.
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Apr 21, 2022 01:13
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Absurd Alhazred posted:All you're doing is rationalizing a moral question out into a question of efficacy. The truth is we don't know what Buffy would look like without Joss Whedon being an abuser, we don't know who would have what type of screen time, and how they would perform. We don't know that. We have what we have on screen, that did involve him being abusive, and playing favorites, and the decisions other people made because he was abusive. You can't exonerate yourself from that whenever you watch it. what? what do they have to exonerate themselves for consuming it at all? they can't have a loving effect on an individual level anyway lol
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Apr 21, 2022 02:25
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Unkempt posted:I loving love Father Ted and always will. Same for me and the I.T. Crowd, except that one episode. (Which is a real shame, because IIRC that's the episode where the A-plot is Jen thinking she has the Internet on loan in small box for a presentation.) Lady Radia posted:what? what do they have to exonerate themselves for consuming it at all? they can't have a loving effect on an individual level anyway lol absurd alhazred's entire schtick is arguing the dumbest things possible with an unearned ben-shapiro-esque air of smugness, i wouldn't engage
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Apr 21, 2022 03:16
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Schubalts posted:I remember the horrific battle against the termite nest, with all those soldiers screaming in agony as they got sprayed with acid. That and the wasp whose wife-wasp is killed, so he goes on a drunken bender.
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Apr 21, 2022 03:45
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Rockman Reserve posted:Same for me and the I.T. Crowd, except that one episode. (Which is a real shame, because IIRC that's the episode where the A-plot is Jen thinking she has the Internet on loan in small box for a presentation.) That whole B plot would have worked if he hadn't misheard and meant "I don't care" and figured out a better way to revert to the status quo. drat shame.
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Apr 21, 2022 03:56
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This is going back a while but on creepy 70s songs about loving underage girls: I present the OzRock classic "Are You Old Enough?" by Dragon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSMyBm9QMLQ Whilst it gets points for the singer essentially saying "Look, obviously I WANT to gently caress you, clearly very young teenage girl. But because I am a grown man, I might go to prison if I get caught. So please tell me you are of legal age." , it doesn't get many points for that. Because that is still a very creepy thing to say/think. But it is better than "I hosed a 13 year old and it was fun." which some of the other songs mentioned did. Fun fact: the song is based on a real life incident when the band had picked up a teenage groupie on tour somewhere at a country town, and were driving out of town on the tour bus, only to be in hot pursuit by the local police, because said groupie was the local Chief of Police's 15 year old daughter.
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Apr 21, 2022 04:48
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one of my managers at a store would only play the "classics" station. A lot of songs from the 60's are about wanting to gently caress underage girls and/or their sister.
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Apr 21, 2022 04:57
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Absurd Alhazred posted:I don't know, but I do know that I wouldn't look at the product quality before firing that manager, and I wouldn't pretend it matters if it's better. 
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Apr 21, 2022 07:40
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Fashionable Jorts posted:Orson Scott Card is a perfect example of this; he's a homophobic piece of poo poo, but the moral of Ender's Game is "Oops We Should Learn Compassion". So yes, you can absolutely separate the art from the artist with him. The only book outside of Ender's Game I've read is Speaker for the Dead which was about cultural and moral relativism on top of that lesson. And also a B plot of how you can carelessly hurt someone you love? Definitely another demonstration of looking at things from a different point of view.
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Apr 21, 2022 08:13
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That Italian Guy posted:death of the author BaldDwarfOnPCP posted:death of the author Detective No. 27 posted:Death of the Author pentyne posted:separate art from the artist "Death of the author" is about the meaning of a text, ie. whether it means what the author says it means (or intended it to mean) or whether meaning is unique to the reader and therefore different for each person and in each new context. Separating the art from the artist can be related, because the reader's knowledge of the author (or lack of it) can impact the way they interpret and understand the text but you can also choose to ignore things that you know about the author in your interpretation.
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Apr 21, 2022 08:19
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Absurd Alhazred posted:I don't know, but I do know that I wouldn't look at the product quality before firing that manager, and I wouldn't pretend it matters if it's better.
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Apr 21, 2022 12:43
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Alhazred posted:Who are you arguing against? That was a very weird combination of posters.
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Apr 21, 2022 13:32
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Jedit posted:That was a very weird combination of posters. I am Rational And Sane Alhazred.
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Apr 21, 2022 14:12
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Can we get Reasonable Alhazred in here to rule on this Edit: delay one second, drat it
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Apr 21, 2022 14:13
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sweet geek swag posted:It's an evil house, there's gonna be evil things in it! The "good" people living in the evil house decorate the severed slave heads with hats for Christmas.
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Apr 21, 2022 14:33
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Alhazred posted:I am Rational And Sane Alhazred. You may very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment.
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Apr 21, 2022 15:33
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Absurd Alhazred posted:You may very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment. And yet you did.
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Apr 22, 2022 11:58
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I’ve never liked a single Woody Allen movie, even before I knew anything about him. I just never “got” them, you know? Same with Seinfeld. It’s irritating instead of funny. I’m Jewish and I grew up right outside NYC in the 80’s-90’s but I still don’t “get” that particular brand of humor.
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Apr 22, 2022 12:00
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Dave Syndrome posted:And yet you did.
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Apr 22, 2022 12:30
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pentyne posted:Lots of people can't separate art from the artist. Ender's Game was never that good. It was obnoxiously manipulative that falls apart on a re-read. Fashionable Jorts posted:I can separate the art from the artist if the art is free from the artist's taint. That's actually not the moral of Ender's Game. The moral of Ender's Game is that Good People Are Good, Bad People Are Bad. Or at least, that was what OSC was trying to teach. That was the whole point of the genocide: Because Ender is GOOD, that means he could do a genocide while being innocent, and that his genocide would turn out to be for the best. Or Ender intentionally murdering other children doesn't make him Bad. When you're good, no matter what you do, even if you intend to do evil, it'll come out good. And in reverse, if you're bad, no matter what kind of good you do, it'll turn out bad. These are intrinsic, and you can't change whether you are Good or Bad. How much this gets across in the books is questionable, but it is the moral world view that OSC wrote the books with the intention of imparting on the reader, according to an interview he released in response to the ENDER: HITLER? joke essay that was being used to promote the book at the time. He claimed that Ender is actually the opposite of Hitler, and his shining goodness is why everything worked out in the end instead of being the Holocaust. He really didn't get this across as clearly as he wanted, outside of Graff getting off on everything because everyone saw, in OSC terms, how Good he was. bad sugarpop habit posted:The last Ender book, Children of the Mind, gave me a ton of ~trans feelings~ before I really understood them and figured myself out. The whole revelation is really weird because despite the characters and everyone saying "oh this is training", no one actually acts like it is just a simulation. Characters flame out from breaking under the stress and pressure, but in a way that heavily seems like everyone gets that it is for real and they're not just practicing for something in the future. Not to mention it wasn't done like normal training at all. It doesn't help that OSC doesn't talk about anything but laser tag (because the entire point of the book was to expand the laser tag short story when it got turned into Speaker of the Dead's prequel instead of something completely unrelated) in terms of training, so as far as I remember that's the first time they go into what their actual job is suppose to be. The Mormon-poisoned bio-essentialism is where I assume he got his Good People and Bad People philosophy.
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Apr 22, 2022 15:57
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I never finished the 4th Ender book, but Speaker for the Dead was my favorite of the 3 I read. It has also been 20 years since I read any of them, they may all suck to me now.
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Apr 22, 2022 16:05
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There’s a lot of weird poo poo in Ender’s Game about children being categorically different from adults, to the point where it’s self-evidently impossible for a room full of naked children to have any kind of sexual meaning, even when the children are not segregated by sex (that is my memory, anyway). It’s like the kids are separated absolutely from anything in adult experience and that adulthood entails crossing a line that you can’t come back from. The brother and sister on Earth gently caress around with the adult world with their blog posts, but know that they’re outside of it—the sister says something like “how can I have a weekly column when I don’t have a monthly period?” as if when she is an adult she won’t have the same critical distance or moral separation from society. Orson Scott Card is the original former bright kid who can’t stop obsessing over the unrealized potential he was told he had by being part of a gifted and talented program in elementary school, or was back in the 80s.
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Apr 22, 2022 16:06
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I AM GRANDO posted:There’s a lot of weird poo poo in Ender’s Game about children being categorically different from adults, to the point where it’s self-evidently impossible for a room full of naked children to have any kind of sexual meaning, even when the children are not segregated by sex (that is my memory, anyway). It’s like the kids are separated absolutely from anything in adult experience and that adulthood entails crossing a line that you can’t come back from. The brother and sister on Earth gently caress around with the adult world with their blog posts, but know that they’re outside of it—the sister says something like “how can I have a weekly column when I don’t have a monthly period?” as if when she is an adult she won’t have the same critical distance or moral separation from society. Yeah, that's all correct. It was weird because OSC talked in IIRC the preword of one of the editions about how people mistake children for not being able to understand/be adults and only he fully understood that genius children just basically tiny adults. He also was a full believer that being a genius mentally also meant that you were innately also superhuman and also master warriors, which is why 6 year old Ender can easily beat an IIRC 8 year old boy to death without trying.
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Apr 22, 2022 16:11
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The weirdest part to me is that the end of the series (not counting shadow stuff I haven't read) is about peace on the planet having the different cultures of bugs, people, pigs and virus all learning to live together in harmony, and that hasn't really been his real world philosophy at all.
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Apr 22, 2022 16:35
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just lmao if you don't subscribe to an obsessive compulsive life of the reader theory, where any problematic behaviour by an artist comes directly from your awareness of them
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Apr 22, 2022 16:42
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My attempt at watching a Woody Allen movie was the only time I went "I don't get it, this movie must be for grown-ups" in my twenties. I think it was Annie Hall but I honestly couldn't tell you. I remember Take the Money and Run being kinda funny but like hell I'm going back to confirm.
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Apr 22, 2022 17:01
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Ambitious Spider posted:The weirdest part to me is that the end of the series (not counting shadow stuff I haven't read) is about peace on the planet having the different cultures of bugs, people, pigs and virus all learning to live together in harmony, and that hasn't really been his real world philosophy at all. Christian weirdos are very bad at theory vs practice. Either that or something about how he could only tolerate people being different if they're literally aliens.
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Apr 22, 2022 17:19
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I had no exposure to that kind of rigid conservative thinking as a kid, but it may be as simple as a strict upbringing ruining your mind and making you lose the capacity to be self-critical or revisit rigid beliefs even as you grow and change in other ways. Conservative science fiction fans always seem weird to me because the genre is fundamentally about critical reflection and incredible sexual perversion, even when it’s done in ways that are explicitly in-line with conventional ideas of the era. Like Foundation is extremely 1950s, but it would get a kid thinking critically in ways that would get them criticizing 1950s assumptions about how things should be. The sexual perversion has historically been in the service of male sexuality, I guess.
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Apr 22, 2022 17:24
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I AM GRANDO posted:The sexual perversion has historically been in the service of male sexuality, I guess. Whenever I start reading a scifi or fantasy novel written by a dude, I pretty much say a little prayer for the women in the story since 9 times out of 10 its gonna be a Bad Time for them, intentional or not.
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Apr 22, 2022 17:32
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I think I might like Ender's Shadow more than Ender's game, but boy the Bean books end up going to some really weird places.
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Apr 22, 2022 17:48
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Fashionable Jorts posted:one of my managers at a store would only play the "classics" station. A lot of songs from the 60's are about wanting to gently caress underage girls and/or their sister. huh was the incest fetish always here? Also Antz was actual Ant Z.
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Apr 22, 2022 17:59
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Because Woody Allen is always antsy.
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