|
Vigilantes is pretty good
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2022 19:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 15:38 |
|
|
Vigilantes: You know what, for all that I griped about Pop being left out of most of the arc, this reunion was absolutely wonderful.  Also, Makoto's making Lois Lane proud yet again by proving that she's the most competent person in this manga.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2022 20:08
|
|
|
Oh it is! SKULL.GIF posted:https://manuelamalasanya.wordpress.com/2015/04/22/dragonball-art-fight/ This is a great breakdown too, drat dragonball is good at what it does.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2022 20:28
|
|
|
Vinylshadow posted:Vigilantes 124 I grinned so hard at the Sneaking the Hoodie on
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2022 20:38
|
|
|
Vigilantes: Welcome back Pop, hope you have a chance to make up for lost time before the series ends
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2022 20:53
|
|
|
Vinylshadow posted:Vigilantes 124  Oh Captain Celebrity, I've missed you so much. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2022 20:59
|
|
|
FRIENDSHIP ENDED WITH ALL MIGHT NOW CAPTAIN CELEBRITY IS MY HERO
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2022 23:02
|
|
|
The character writing in Vigilantes is just head and shoulders above the main series and it's not even close
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2022 23:10
|
|
|
I cried at Pop's internal monologue and then again while laughing at the pay off panel.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2022 23:21
|
|
|
Do we know how long Vigilantes has left in it at this point yet (I expect it’ll probably end before the main series does at least)?
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2022 23:22
|
|
|
hopefully like, two chapters
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2022 23:23
|
|
|
Unironically excited for my 10 chapter epilogue where we see all the weirdo townies and where they end up and the team meeting up with The Boss and his daughter for a luncheon.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2022 23:27
|
|
|
I can't wait for The Crawler, beloved sidekick of Captain Celebrity, shows up in the main series to save the day.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2022 23:27
|
|
|
I liked Vigilantes overall honestly (even if they dragged out the last fight for way too long and Pop was basically reduced to a damsel in distress by the end) but makes sense. I do hope they go through with the whole sidekick talk and Koichi gets to become a hero for real though (and therefore shows up in MHA proper along with Captain Celebrity), kid’s more than earned his wings in my opinion Larryb fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Apr 22, 2022 |
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2022 23:29
|
|
|
Number 6 really turned around at the end for me. Really enjoy a villain doing everything he can to be as petty as possible. "You didn't win! You Didn't beat me! I got my hits in and blew myself up, gently caress you" after defying the will of AFO is just... what an rear end in a top hat, but in a fun way.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2022 23:47
|
|
|
Vigilantes rules so hard
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2022 23:52
|
|
|
Vigilantes I'm glad Koichi doesn't have hang up his cape. Also Pop made that hoodie, right?
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2022 00:37
|
|
|
TheKingofSprings posted:The character writing in Vigilantes is just head and shoulders above the main series and it's not even close And this sort of thing is why Vigilantes talk makes me roll my eyes. It's fine to like Vigilantes. It's perfectly reasonable to like it more. But Endeavor alone gives the core series the win. I know that quoting from other forums, especially unattributed, is bad internet etiquette, but I saw a post a while back that covered my thoughts on the subject very well. If the writer sees this, I apologize for the lack of attribution, but I did feel this covered my thoughts better than I could. "I think, for me personally, the way I conceptualise the difference in the quality of writing between the main manga and Vigilantes is that if the main manga wants to have a redemption arc, it will dedicate a multi-step story to that process, take stock of the bad behaviour that character did, and analyse both that character's internal thoughts as well as the reactions of others to them. It will ultimately accomplish this through the vehicle of fight scenes, and people's reactions to said fight scenes, with actual conversations between said characters being relatively brief because this is a mainstream shonen manga. If Vigilantes wants a character to undergo a redemption arc, it tells you "no, they never did that" and then invents a new characterisation that is more nuanced but directly retcons how they behaved earlier in the manga. If it wasn't obvious here, I'm talking about Endeavour and Captain Celebrity respectively. I initially considered bringing up Soga as well, but on reflecting at the very least when they first meet him again the story acknowledges him as "rape and murder man" rather than just sweeping C.C.'s very real infidelity issues as just people taking advantage of him, apparently. Never mind him schmoozing on Makoto in his introduction, just don't think about that, actually he loves his wife too much! This is in part because a recurring theme of Vigilantes is that you need to look beyond initial surface level impressions, and that how society treats individuals can result in vicious cycles (while providing positive outcomes such as a mutant cafe can help people better themselves) but the execution here leaves a lot to be desired. I like Vigilantes (hell, I like C.C. and his arc), but I'm convinced the reason why it gets held up as better written by its fans is largely due to the way it is framed as a more "mature" manga, as well as certain other aspects that are designed to appeal to people who might have tired of the main manga, rather than any objective difference in quality. Its protagonist is in university, rather than high school. There is, in general, a larger focus on the non-mainstream, where as the main manga focuses pretty much exclusively on the top stars of the nation. People are more concerned with things like finding a job, or balancing hobbies with your goals in life, instead of fighting villains, or passing tests that are really just an excuse to have fight scenes. Vigilantes doesn't compete with the main series. It relies on the main series for exposure. This is why a solid portion of the arcs in Vigilantes are centred around characters from the main manga, up to and including chapters that basically have no purpose apart from examining characters from the main series. These factors combine to appeal directly to those who like the manga world but are tired of reading about teenagers going plus ultra. This in turn creates a sense of identity in a subgenre of the fans it appeals to. Vigilantes very consciously markets itself as an alternative view on the world of the manga. At its best, this means an examination of quirk prejudices in day to day life, instead of just the implications of a larger number of mutants being villains, or people actively looking to beat them up for being scary. At its worst, it leads to people saying that Koichi is just "better Deku" or Number 6 is "better Shigaraki" when those characters have very little in common beyond surface level traits. I would actually describe myself as someone to whom the aesthetic of Vigilantes appeals more than the aesthetic of the main series. But I, personally, have too many issues with the actual writing of Vigilantes to really say I prefer it to the main manga. Even without going into comparisons like the art (because that isn't a comparison, the main manga blows it out of the water), there's just too much retconning of characterisation, or fight scenes where the same narrative beats are hit without progression for months on end, or half-delivered plotlines (I'm hoping that there'll still be more to tell on Knuckleduster's daughter and the bee villain, but at this point I'm not holding my breath). Which isn't to say it's bad, as I mentioned above I like a lot of it, and I'm probably more negatively inclined on it in the moment due to how long this fight has dragged on. But I'm not convinced that it's some battler of a manga that blows the undeserving main series out of the water. If anything, I feel like a wider audience reading Vigilantes would result in more people putting it under a critical eye."
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2022 00:39
|
|
|
Edit: Nevermind, already mentioned above
Larryb fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Apr 23, 2022 |
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2022 00:45
|
|
|
Electric Phantasm posted:Vigilantes I'm glad Koichi doesn't have hang up his cape. Koichi isn't in hero school because on the way to Hero School Admission Test, he stopped to rescue a child from drowning in a river. Then he gave the kid his hoodie and ran off to be too late for the test. That kid was Pop, and she's giving him back his hoodie now.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2022 00:45
|
|
|
Yeah, I very much agree that Vigilantes more than anything is just doing a different thing than the main manga. I find MHA the better of the two, with Vigilantes suffering from a bunch of first draft issues, characters crossing moral lines early on, and then getting retconned into more likable versions to fit the new vision. Its got overall weaker writing, but I've come to really appreciate it by the end. Having a shorter, more focused scope helps to bind it together, and #6 ended up being a really fun character.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2022 00:56
|
|
|
I couldn't agree with that less, the main series is much longer and has largely just decided to not have character arcs E: also Vigilantes is not really "more mature" even aesthetically, I don't get that perspective Arist fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Apr 23, 2022 |
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2022 01:21
|
|
|
I'm sure the reveal of Dekus 12th power will be as emotionally resonating as this Vigilantes chapter.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2022 01:26
|
|
|
ZenMasterBullshit posted:I'm sure the reveal of Crawler's 12th power will be as emotionally resonating as this MHA chapter.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2022 01:28
|
|
|
Thiis is like saying eraserhead has a new power because he's using his wraps in a new way compared to....deku and ShirAllforOne pulling out an entire Xmen class of powers to God Mod at one another.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2022 01:31
|
|
|
yeah, Vigilantes is definitely something that grew lasting appeal for me mainly via how it intersects with and works off the main series. the flashback arcs in particular are huge parts of that and only work because they trade on MHA characters i already liked and wanted more content of. if anything, i feel like that's where one of the big divides in preference appears, the disparity in cast sizes and overall scope make something like Vigilantes feel more intimate and likable than knowing MHA has long since passed the point where it can satisfyingly provide regular content for 1A, let alone 1B and the other schools and pros etc etc.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2022 01:37
|
|
|
but of course, Vigilantes totally steps in it by throwing even that subjective advantage away in its climactic arc that also ditches the low-to-the-ground vibe by expanding into a city-destroying conflict that is tied directly to AfO etc etc. and yeah, Koichi having a broadly-defined power that rapidly develops into like five different flavors of plot convenience feels about on par with what Deku has going on.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2022 01:40
|
|
|
Vigilantes consistently makes me feel things. The main series doesn't. That's really all it comes down to.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2022 01:43
|
|
|
A major thing for me is that I think The Crawler is just much more appealing as a heroic protagonist. Deku is so tied up in the giant metaplot while The Crawler is just a regular dork who wants to help people and has put a ton of effort into making his seemingly lovely power into something genuinely impressive. His story is built around saving small numbers of people but that's fine because Deku was never more appealing to me than when he did everything he could to save Eri. It is absolutely better written than MHA mainline because it actually focuses on the stuff MHA was good about instead of the endless Big Overaching Plot which very quickly has become boring as poo poo. Even then it handles AFO better because AFO gets to be the weird smarmy shithead mastermind instead of whatever the mess he is in the main series at this point now. MHA still has some very good stuff but the problem is that it moved way away from it in favor of chasing the least interesting part of the setting and characters. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Apr 23, 2022 |
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2022 01:52
|
|
|
I think the major difference is that I care how the Naruhata crew ends up. Everyone from the vigilantes themselves, to the goobers in the dance troupe, I actually am relieved that they're all ostensibly okay. I don't really give a poo poo what happens to most of the kids in the main series. Midnight dying affected me less than if Knuckleduster ends up being dead.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2022 02:01
|
|
|
koichi is one of those protagonists who constantly defuses stressful situations with obliviousness/stupidity but dialed back a couple settings, so instead he's just kind of a ding-dong it works way better than you'd expect
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2022 02:02
|
|
|
Yeah, to be honest I kind of think Koichi is a better protagonist than Deku all things considered
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2022 02:08
|
|
|
SpacePig posted:I think the major difference is that I care how the Naruhata crew ends up. Everyone from the vigilantes themselves, to the goobers in the dance troupe, I actually am relieved that they're all ostensibly okay. I don't really give a poo poo what happens to most of the kids in the main series. Midnight dying affected me less than if Knuckleduster ends up being dead. This is where I'm at, I think. I'm not going to pontificate about how Vigilantes is some kind of magnum opus of manga writing, but it did succeed in making me give a poo poo about the cast because all of them felt like part of the whole story. The main manga introduced ten billion characters and made it abundantly clear that it didn't give a poo poo about exploring basically any of them, so I basically stopped bothering trying to get invested in any of them. Why should I care about Mina or Kirishima or Tsuyu? They might be cool character concepts with fantastic designs but the manga doesn't give a single particle of poo poo about them and they might as well not be there. I'm pretty sure Vigilantes gave more attention to the mantis guy than MHA gave to most of 1A and 1B.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2022 02:31
|
|
|
Larryb posted:Yeah, to be honest I kind of think Koichi is a better protagonist than Deku all things considered 
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2022 02:37
|
|
|
Oxxidation posted:koichi is one of those protagonists who constantly defuses stressful situations with obliviousness/stupidity but dialed back a couple settings, so instead he's just kind of a ding-dong Ah yes the patented Legosi Method of villains looking at him and going "oh my god this guy's a loving idiot ergo I will switch sides to save him from himself"
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2022 03:35
|
|
|
chiasaur11 posted:I like Vigilantes (hell, I like C.C. and his arc), but I'm convinced the reason why it gets held up as better written by its fans is largely due to the way it is framed as a more "mature" manga, as well as certain other aspects that are designed to appeal to people who might have tired of the main manga, rather than any objective difference in quality. Its protagonist is in university, rather than high school. There is, in general, a larger focus on the non-mainstream, where as the main manga focuses pretty much exclusively on the top stars of the nation. People are more concerned with things like finding a job, or balancing hobbies with your goals in life, instead of fighting villains, or passing tests that are really just an excuse to have fight scenes. Good God, why do people insist on creating a hypothesis about why other people enjoy something more than you do, and then make it into the crux of their argument? And why does their hypothesis always tend to miss the mark so hard? I would feel a bit of cognitive dissonance declaring one manga more "mature" simply because its cast is generally older (and therefore have different day-to-day concerns), while, paragraphs earlier, comparing Captain Celebrity's arc to the "rape and murder man's" arc. My Hero Academia has explored a ton of dark elements, and those vastly overshadow the early part of the manga's levity and "teenagers going plus ultra." Vigilantes isn't exactly all cheery sunshine, but it has a much overall lighter tone and much smaller stakes. They also mention "passing tests that are really just an excuse to have fight scenes" without considering the phrase "just an excuse to have fight scenes." Overall, it's a really presumptuous and very irritating way frame why they don't like something more than another thing that other people like. We all like things for different reasons! It is okay not to agree with them, but you don't have create some grand rationalization for it--just accept it! No, don't explain to them why they're wrong, explain why YOU don't like it more. I enjoy Vigilantes for a variety of reasons, and I have grown to like it more than MHA. I don't think MHA is bad, but I do have a lot of notes on how it could be improved! Edit: Like, I LIKE the school setting, but it got abandoned a long time ago! We never got through a full year! Vigilante's Captain Celebrity and the whole music arc might as well have been about high schoolers! Prowler fucked around with this message at 04:36 on Apr 23, 2022 |
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2022 04:18
|
|
|
Prowler posted:Good God, why do people insist on creating a hypothesis about why other people enjoy something more than you do, and then make it into the crux of their argument? And why does their hypothesis always tend to miss the mark so hard? Yeah there's something very funny about talking about how Vigilantes is much more mature in tone and subject then talking about how good The Eugenics Man is as a character arc. dogsicle posted:also ditches the low-to-the-ground vibe by expanding into a city-destroying conflict that is tied directly to AfO And I disagree on this point strongly. The entire deal with this cast of goobers that spans the whole city from the highest heroes down to street thugs is that they've become as crucial to the tone and writing of the manga as well as all becoming part of the protags circle of friends and his own every broadening scope of what he's able to do if he actually has the drive and the chance to help out. With as much of the city as has become part of the cast and crew the final ultimate climax being something that's a threat to that entire thing, because the villain understands how connected Koichi is to everyone is basically the perfect way to go out on the heroic sides of this. Koichi's graduated into Real Hero poo poo while still being entirely who he's always been, the weirdo oblivious guy just trying to help out his neighborhood and learning to do that by imitating and learning from his friends. he's just gotten better at learning and adopted a bigger part of the city as his Home. The power ups/forms/new usages of his old power follow all that as well. We've repeatedly seen him figure out new ways to apply his power, and learn that he didn't actually know exactly what it is he could do because he lost that drive and goal long ago, now here he is, a True Hero pushed to save all his friends so he's having to put his power to the limit, pulling out trick after trick just to get by, and even then his biggest trick is just "Put the propulsion points on my fist to hit kinda hard like Master." and even that isn't enough to seal the deal. Even with all his tricks he still spends the whole fight on the run and constantly getting support from all the allies he's made along the way. It stays within reason of what he could theoretically do with "My power is propulsion from points on my body" while also not making him invincible or instantly winning. For every new trick he figures out he still gets his rear end beat. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 05:37 on Apr 23, 2022 |
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2022 05:34
|
|
|
Oxxidation posted:koichi is one of those protagonists who constantly defuses stressful situations with obliviousness/stupidity but dialed back a couple settings, so instead he's just kind of a ding-dong This is definitely a personal thing because I think its one of the things that turns me off of Vigilantes. Koichi so often pushes the tone towards light-heartedness that it's hard to get especially invested in anything that happens. Deku gets insanely emotional in every fight and that hooks me more than knowing an arc/fight is probably just going to end in Koichi goofing his way out of trouble. Arist posted:I couldn't agree with that less, the main series is much longer and has largely just decided to not have character arcs. Not true in the slightest. In fact its actually Vigilantes that decided to largely ignore character arcs. Captain Celebrity didn't have to work for a redemption like Endeavor or Bakugo have, it was just retconned that he wasn't actually as bad as he was introduced as. He had a big fight and was suddenly a cool dude, something the main series calls out as not being the same as redemption with Endeavor. Soga hasn't had any character development I can remember, he was just bullied into working with Knuckleduster and his past as a scumbag has just not been mentioned since. Knuckleduster didn't get an arc, just lots of backstory. I can't even think if Koichi has changed much since his introduction tbh. In comparison, Deku and Bakugo are very different from the start of the manga to where they are now. Todoroki is a hard-to-read guy but you can still see how much of a difference there is now to his first appearance because of his development in the story. Uraraka is in the middle of her big development arc but you can still see how she's changed over the course of the series. We had the pay-off to Iida's development when he got through to Deku. Endeavor has obviously changed. All Might has had to come to terms with various things over the course of the series. We just had a big arc about Aoyama. We've also had character arcs for the whole League (except Compress and Magne). Twice had a great arc, Toga is having one now and Shigaraki's development up to the end of the War arc was excellent, we'll see how it shakes out. I think it's more accurate to say that the main series has had a lot of character arcs and obviously can't develop all the characters all at once due to the size of the cast so it may feel that some are being ignored. It also has a lot of side characters that aren't relevant enough to dedicate time into developing, which is fine unless you were really gunning for that Mina arc. Nephthys fucked around with this message at 09:23 on Apr 23, 2022 |
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2022 09:18
|
|
|
midoriya doesn’t actually have a personality anymore. he’s a sandbag with a determined face scribbled on it. Bakugo has developed but he’s been marginalized to the point where it barely registers
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2022 12:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 15:38 |
|
|
Midoriya is a perfectly smooth, frictionless orb designed to repel all potentially interesting character conflict
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2022 12:48
|
|