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I did watch the special edition though I was made aware to keep my eyes closed and skip through the initial colony segment.
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Apr 23, 2022 19:52
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lurker2006 posted:I did watch the special edition though I was made aware to keep my eyes closed and skip through the initial colony segment.
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Apr 23, 2022 20:00
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Xenomrph posted:
Well, the reading gets a little weird since some of the characters are explicitly Vietnam veterans but here goes. In the movie Predator a group of Americans made up of minorities, lower class folks, and immigrants is sent into the jungle to fight communism under what turns out to be some pretty shady and outright wrong information. I mean the cabinet minister and his aides are basically the Gulf of Tonkin. After initially being successful due to an application of technology and superior firepower they are basically defeated by an enemy that refuses to show themselves and that uses the jungle for concealment and movement. Eventually, the Americans leave after devastating the local jungle and are shattered by the experience, as shown by the look on Dutch's face at the end. As is often said about the Vietnam conflict, they won the battles but lost the war.
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Apr 23, 2022 20:14
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Is there a directors cut that doesn't have the colonist scenes. The old VHS copy I taped off TV in the 90s had the autocannons and some extra Ripley scenes at the start, but I don't think I've seen Newts parents.
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Apr 23, 2022 21:08
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I think the colonist scenes are fine, if unnecessary. They still leave the events of the fall of the colony up to the imagination.
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Apr 23, 2022 21:22
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Alchenar posted:I think the colonist scenes are fine, if unnecessary. They still leave the events of the fall of the colony up to the imagination.
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Apr 23, 2022 21:35
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Splicer posted:IMO it introduces the colony too early. Without it we're only introduced to people and places as Ripley encounters them. Note that I'm not saying we only see things Ripley sees, but rather that without that scene the narrative starts with Ripley a our POV character and everything after that fairly smoothly forks off from her experiences. We don't meet anyone else before we she meets them, and with very minor exceptions we don't go anywhere before she's been there. Jumping to the colony is a much more jarring transition than anything else in the film, and to me almost feels like an interruption. I think this is a really interesting way to frame the way the narrative plays out, and is one of the more compelling arguments for the colony stuff’s exclusion.
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Apr 23, 2022 21:43
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the directors cut of aliens is too bloated imo. the only scene that i think was important and shouldnt have been cut from the theatrical version is the stuff about ripley's daughter the rest is just unnecessary imo
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Apr 23, 2022 21:50
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keep punching joe posted:Is there a directors cut that doesn't have the colonist scenes. The old VHS copy I taped off TV in the 90s had the autocannons and some extra Ripley scenes at the start, but I don't think I've seen Newts parents. I’m pretty sure there was a tv exit that cut out some other stuff so padded it out with those scenes
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Apr 23, 2022 21:55
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Splicer posted:IMO it introduces the colony too early. Without it we're only introduced to people and places as Ripley encounters them. Note that I'm not saying we only see things Ripley sees, but rather that without that scene the narrative starts with Ripley a our POV character and everything after that fairly smoothly forks off from her experiences. We don't meet anyone else before we she meets them, and with very minor exceptions we don't go anywhere before she's been there. Jumping to the colony is a much more jarring transition than anything else in the film, and to me almost feels like an interruption. The other issue is that the sets are designed to be the haunted habitat for spooky space zombies. When you see people just casually living there, it looks fuckin stupid.
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Apr 23, 2022 23:03
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ruddiger posted:Reminder that the US conflict in Vietnam was not a war, and illegal secret military operations that crossed the borders of Vietnam into its neighboring countries was commonplace for the US military. The US never officially declared war but the Vietnamese refer to it as the Resistance War Against America and I think the people getting bombed and napalmed probably have the most authority to decide if they’re at war.
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Apr 23, 2022 23:05
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The point isn’t if Vietnam can or can’t be classified as a war, that’s liberal pedantry, the point is the US foreign policy that gave the US the excuse to instigate a civil war in a third world country is the same now as it was in the 60s. The “Vietnam war” for the United States never ended, it just rebranded and shifted demographics. Predator shows how it rebranded itself for the 80s, Aliens shows the natural end result of the same unregulated capitalism. It’s not NATO that sends a rescue team to the colony, it’s the US government acting in the interests of private shareholders. ruddiger fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Apr 23, 2022 |
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Apr 23, 2022 23:26
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ruddiger posted:The point isn’t if Vietnam can or can’t be classified as a war, that’s liberal pedantry, the point is the US foreign policy that gave the US the excuse to instigate a civil war in a third world country is the same now as it was in the 60s. The “Vietnam war” for the United States never ended, it just rebranded and shifted demographics. 
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Apr 23, 2022 23:27
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ruddiger posted:The point isn’t if Vietnam can or can’t be classified as a war, that’s liberal pedantry, the point is the US foreign policy that gave the US the excuse to instigate a civil war in a third world country is the same now as it was in the 60s. The “Vietnam war” for the United States never ended, it just rebranded and shifted demographics. Predator shows how it rebranded itself for the 80s, Aliens shows the natural end result of the same unregulated capitalism. It’s not NATO that sends a rescue team to the colony, it’s the US government acting in the interests of private shareholders. I agree it is pedantic to argue about whether Vietnam was technically a war but you brought it up.
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Apr 24, 2022 02:19
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No, I jumped in an already ongoing conversation that was dictating what gets to be labeled an allegory for the Vietnam war, and why the “war on drugs” is just America’s continuation of that “war.” Predator is a better war movie than Aliens btw
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Apr 24, 2022 02:30
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This weekend I read the novelisation of Predator. It's obviously based on an earlier version of the script, but it basically has the same beats as what ended up in the movie. Major changes are the Predator is much more like the Thing, it literally mimics the jungle turning itself into foliage, eagles, etc.. before deciding on a humanoid to better confront man with. Mac is written as a racist redneck along with Blaine, and the script constantly refers to Dillon as "the black man," and I think it was a good choice to cast Bill Duke that role as it really changed the dynamic of the script and made it a lot less uncomfortable on that line, and they didn't have Jesse Ventura calling Dillion a n*g-n*g, which is a weirdly English slur for a southern redneck to be using. Anna, is written as basically falling in love with Dutch by the end of the movie, embracing him and kissing him when he is rescued, and Billy is basically given supernatural Native-American powers, the novel explicitly states that the Predator had fought the Sioux long ago and Billy basically had a race memory of that that let him sense when the Predator was near. There were a few minor details as well, and the book seemed to imply that the Predator was faking US Army boot prints at one point, but that's dropped and not mentioned again. Also the Green Beret team that was killed by the Predator prior to Dutch being called in is turned into a helicopter rescue crew, though it's not stated if they were on the first chopper that got shot down or it was an additional bird that went down. Again, something that was cleaned up in the shooting script. Not a bad read, but not nearly as good as the Alan Dean Foster adaptations of Alien and Aliens.
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Apr 24, 2022 06:23
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quote:
Yikesaroo
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Apr 24, 2022 06:42
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Xenomrph posted:I know the colony bit is divisive with some but I happen to like it, I think seeing the colony pre-infestation is cool and helps hammer home how bad things got by showing how good they used to be. Yeah you can trim it out if you want to keep the runtime low, and having Newt’s parents be the ones who find the Derelict is a bit of a contrivance (but I can write it off as being economy of storytelling on Cameron’s part), but I think including the scene adds more interesting stuff to the story than removing it helps it. It makes the movie too slow, IMO, and not in the good suspense building way. I watched it a few years ago with my wife and she'd never seen it. I didn't realize we were watching the DC and neither of us could figure out wtf was taking so long to get going. I was explaining how I didn't recall it dragging so much early on. Those segments really don't add much for me and taking them out doesn't really effect anything.
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Apr 24, 2022 14:29
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Apr 24, 2022 16:04
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Peak Aliens is one that includes only the short scene where Burke tells Ripley her daughter died years ago (still can’t believe Cameron cut this) and the sentry guns in the passageway.
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Apr 24, 2022 17:42
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MrMojok posted:Peak Aliens is one that includes only the short scene where Burke tells Ripley her daughter died years ago (still can’t believe Cameron cut this) and the sentry guns in the passageway. This is the correct answer
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Apr 24, 2022 18:32
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MrMojok posted:Peak Aliens is one that includes only the short scene where Burke tells Ripley her daughter died years ago (still can’t believe Cameron cut this) and the sentry guns in the passageway. That version was showed on television after the movie came out and how I rewatched it on my VHS recording over and over. I was so confused when the DVD came out and it was missing those scenes. Quality of Aliens arguments are always colored by people who were old enough to see it when it came out, people who were old enough to see Alien AND Aliens when it came out and people that saw it after the fact and had their opinion colored by progression in film that took from Aliens. One HUGE thing that Mills and Gen Z miss is that it presented a kind of visceral action at the time that had never been seen and changed movies from then on out as directors learned how to pace and ramp up action sequences a lot more in timing, cutting, volume, everything. Part of what makes it "great" is impossible to replicate once every movie builds on what it has done. It's like going to Cedar Pointe or something and getting on the Gemini which was made 50 years ago AFTER getting on whatever new biggest roller coaster is there now - when part of the movie is a constructed roller coaster ride, it's harder to impress once you've seen so much bigger and better. Add that to all of the stuff plot-wise that every movie from First Contact to Resident Evil took from Aliens and it's near impossible for anyone younger to recognize anything besides it being "well made but nothing special since it''s just a typical action movie." Aliens "scared" you by physically taking you on a roller coaster ride which was a direct contrast but interesting follow up to Alien disturbing your mind. If you haven't, read Ebert's review for a perspective of someone who saw it at the time. It presented a style of action direction that physically wore people out at the time while watching at the theater. Terminator 2 was similar, but by that time, we were more adjusted to the style: https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/aliens-1986
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Apr 24, 2022 18:52
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Speaking of exhausting one thing thats always annoyed me is the same DUN, DUN DUN DUN DUN DUN DUN music cue being used for the final escape from the planet, but then again 5 minutes later when Ripley blows the Queen out the airlock. The second time I hear it I roll my eyes a little.
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Apr 24, 2022 19:08
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MrMojok posted:Peak Aliens is one that includes only the short scene where Burke tells Ripley her daughter died years ago (still can’t believe Cameron cut this) and the sentry guns in the passageway. That's pretty much how I feel about the other 3 mainline Alien movies, my "ideal" cut is a blend of the two versions. massive spider posted:Speaking of exhausting one thing thats always annoyed me is the same DUN, DUN DUN DUN DUN DUN DUN music cue being used for the final escape from the planet, but then again 5 minutes later when Ripley blows the Queen out the airlock. The second time I hear it I roll my eyes a little. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yoqAuBlaGU Horner did end up using it for Die Hard though, so there's that. 
Xenomrph fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Apr 24, 2022 |
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Apr 24, 2022 19:09
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I saw Aliens (multiple times) in cinemas back in 86-87, and the audience reactions were, as Ebert and the poster above said, always as if they were on an exhilarating but exhausting ride. The only other movie I've seen that produced that level of mass adrenaline was Evil Dead 2, which is still the most amazing cinema experience I've ever had for throwing the audience around as one laughing/screaming mass. (That said, it was only shown in my town for a single screening on one night only, so the people there were really hyped up for it.)
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Apr 24, 2022 19:12
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Payndz posted:I saw Aliens (multiple times) in cinemas back in 86-87, and the audience reactions were, as Ebert and the poster above said, always as if they were on an exhilarating but exhausting ride. The only other movie I've seen that produced that level of mass adrenaline was Evil Dead 2, which is still the most amazing cinema experience I've ever had for throwing the audience around as one laughing/screaming mass. (That said, it was only shown in my town for a single screening on one night only, so the people there were really hyped up for it.) Yep, same. And everyone was talking about how absolutely insane it was after the fact too. For me kids at school, everyone at my dad's job, etc. Nobody had seen action constructed like that at that point. The only comparison I can make to younger generations is maybe the feeling of watching The Raid or Dredd or Fury Road at a theater the first time or something. If action movies all started being like Fury Road for the next 20 years or taking its one long trip structure, Generation AA will look at those and just say "eh, nothing special, don't get it." Even the Oldboy hallway scene loses a lot of impact on people that have seen Daredevil and everything else that has done the long "one take" fight since at this point - I've seen the "nothing special" response from them. edit: Also how exhausting Hard Boiled was for me back when I saw it in the 90s as compared to now.
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Apr 24, 2022 19:17
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Sodomy Hussein posted:Yikesaroo Yeah, there was a lot of really weird racist poo poo in the novel, I'm glad it was cut out for the movie. Also, I found this interview of the Steve Johnson, the man behind the original Predator costume design, talking about what a debacle the original costume was. Warning, he's a pretty filthy individual, and I would have to guess that RDJ based his Tony Stark off of this guy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y92TfilvMRc&t=7221s
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Apr 25, 2022 03:01
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Darko posted:That version was showed on television after the movie came out and how I rewatched it on my VHS recording over and over. I was so confused when the DVD came out and it was missing those scenes. This is all very true. I’m old enough to have seen them at the theater, and Aliens does have a fantastic pacing that seemed really unique at the time. It’s just an absolutely brilliant job of editing. The theatrical version just seems to fly by every time I watch it, and it never seems to be as long as it actually is. My friends and I were really blown away by the film when we saw it in 86, and then I got other friends and my relatives to go see it with me and I can’t recall anyone not being impressed by it, even people who weren’t really into actiony-type films.
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Apr 25, 2022 03:42
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I was 2 years old when 'Aliens' came out so I didn't get to see it in the theatre until years later when the local university did a special showing of it, and had Lance Henriksen in attendance to do a Q&A, meet and greet, signatures, etc. We saw the special edition version and it ruled, the audience really got into it (and totally lost their minds during the powerloader fight) and it was amazing, one of my favorite theatre experiences even though I'd seen the movie 200 times by that point. I had Lance Henriksen sign my copy of the USCM Technical Manual on the page that shows a cutaway diagram of the Bishop android (complete with robot dong), when I handed him the book he started paging through it and he said, "Is this a real book? Holy poo poo, this is a real book. Holy poo poo." and everyone else in the line started leaning over to see what he was talking about, it was great. He wrote, "I may be synthetic but I'm not stupid. - Lance Henriksen" He was a super cool dude, really laid back and humble, he was up for whatever when people wanted to take photos with him. Some guy asked Lance to put him in a headlock for the photo and he totally did it. In the Q&A he told an anecdote where he was rehearsing for the bit where the Queen spears him at the end and he spews milk everywhere by using real milk, and it had gotten warm and stale under all of the stage lighting and he made himself really sick. James Cameron asked what the hell he was doing and when Lance told him, Cameron said "....we're going to use water with food coloring in it, not real milk, idiot." 
Xenomrph fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Apr 25, 2022 |
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Apr 25, 2022 04:05
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Alien Covenant is messed up. I love it. I believe in....creation.
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Apr 25, 2022 14:31
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I watched Species and Species II this weekend to hold me over until Alien Day. There's a surprising amount of Giger goodness in those movies.
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Apr 25, 2022 15:10
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FunkyAl posted:Alien Covenant is messed up. I love it. it could have been better but its okay for what it is imo 16-bit Butt-Head fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Apr 25, 2022 |
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Apr 25, 2022 15:18
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Basebf555 posted:I watched Species and Species II this weekend to hold me over until Alien Day. There's a surprising amount of Giger goodness in those movies.
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Apr 25, 2022 15:39
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Basebf555 posted:I watched Species and Species II this weekend to hold me over until Alien Day. There's a surprising amount of Giger goodness in those movies. Go watch the interview I posted upthread. The man being interviewed was the guy who did the effects work on species and he talks about how he tried to be as faithful to Giger as he could.
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Apr 25, 2022 16:15
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Xenomrph posted:There had better be, Giger designed Sil. Oh yea sorry I should've been more clear, I know Giger was involved. I guess I just didn't remember just how much stuff is in the movie. Like at one point Sil has a dream where she's running from some sort of biomechanical Giger locomotive, it's pretty cool.
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Apr 25, 2022 16:39
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MrMojok posted:Peak Aliens is one that includes only the short scene where Burke tells Ripley her daughter died years ago (still can’t believe Cameron cut this) and the sentry guns in the passageway. It's this version I have that memory of and yeah it's the right answer.
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Apr 25, 2022 17:49
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I feel like the Ripley Newt relationship develops more naturally without the dead daughter scene. Going from "Hey remember your daughter who was basically a throwaway line in the first movie?? SHES DEAD!!!" followed 30min later by "oh hey look what we have over here....its conveniently dead parents having little girl." is kinda goofy. There was also additional dialog in the scene where Newt takes a nap that was rightfully cut but I cant remember how it went exactly. Just more stuff that felt like "old daughter dead youre my new daughter now!" [looks at camera] "Get it?"
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Apr 25, 2022 22:19
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Here's my probably incredibly controversial opinion: Starting the film with a fake-out dream jump scare is bad.
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Apr 25, 2022 22:57
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LOL, I just always think about the story that Weaver wasn't interested in the film because she's not into guns. Cameron got her to sign on by explaining that there is more to the film, Ripley's daughter has died while she was in hypersleep, and then comes Newt, etc. Then on the night of the premier, Weaver sees Cameron cut the scene where Burke tells Ripley about her daughter, and she is not happy. Really the whole theme of motherhood in the film is interesting. The alien queen is a mother too, who's just trying to do the same thing Ripley is... ensure the survival of her child(ren)
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Apr 25, 2022 23:07
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I think there's clearly a line that's crossed where the added stuff in the Aliens Director's Cut does drag on the first act, because it's already a movie that takes it's time building suspense. Tack on three or four added scenes to that first act and you're running the risk of having people think "alright already, when are things gonna get going?", and you don't want that. The trick is knowing exactly where that line is. Better to err on the side of keeping things moving, which I think is what Cameron ultimately did, even though we all have our own personal preferences for which of those added scenes we would've liked to see make the theatrical cut.
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Apr 25, 2022 23:18
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