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Edge & Christian posted:The event comic everyone said was bad was in fact bad. Looking forward to hearing how the rest of the run and/or the next event that no one really liked was also bad. Lol, I am glad that you never change. I would like to publicly apologize for having the presumption to compare two notoriously unpopular Marvel events. I thought by comparing a very high profile tie in laden event with another tie in laden crossover Marvel pushed as an "event" there mighty be some slight amusement gained by certain readers of this thread. King in Black is so obviously unpopular and the subject of much rousing discourse of late I thought that my "shock" that it was not the nadir of recent Marvel events worthy of comment. Perhaps my subtle intimation that reading such events after the fact is only done by such personages as Forums User Gripweed (famous for their buffoonery) wasn't direct enough?
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Apr 23, 2022 13:48
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What defines 'new symbiotes' for you, if they are all Carnages or Venoms or Knulls or KnullCarnages or VenomKnulls or in the case of an earlier creator, Poisons Which Are Like Evil Venoms But Also Venom + Hulk and Venom + Iceman are those cool to you? If so, you might just want to go to the Marvel Wikia and see how many 'new' symbiotes there are in a given arc and just go nuts. They're all going to be hiveminds working for a very specific goal generally. That goal is usually killing thousands/billions/trillions of people, and/or absorbing trillions of people into a hivemind. Sometimes absorbing trillions of people and then killing them.
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Apr 23, 2022 13:50
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Venom with wings does actually in fact, own.
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Apr 23, 2022 13:52
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Rhyno posted:Venom with wings does actually in fact, own.
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Apr 23, 2022 13:57
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I make a distinction between new Symbiotes and different characters wearing existing Symbiotes, and both of them are cool. New Symbiotes are better, because that's new characters and new colors of Symbiotes. But an unexpected character wearing an existing Symbiote can make for a fun story. And no the absolutely are not always going to be a hivemind working for a specific evil goal. For example, Venom. He's a distinct Symbiote with it's own goals and desires. iirc it was even established that Venom was unusual among Symbiotes because it desired true symbiosis instead of just using hosts up. Even Carnage had it's own goals, it's just that those goals were killing. They lined up with Cletus's goals which was what made Carnage so powerful, they had perfect alignment between the two parts. And when they brought in bigger Symbiote stuff the other symbiotes were different from Carnage because they didn't love killing for the sake of being evil. They were murderous bad guys, but they didn't delight in suffering like Carnage did. So if you can have distinct Symbiotes with their own unique goals and drives, then you don't need an evil hivemind all working towards the plans of one dude. At the very least they should be different colors When I hear that a story has a lot of Symbiotes, I want it to look like this  not like this 
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Apr 23, 2022 14:03
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They will absolutely be a hivemind working towards the same goal in any comic book published in the past decade, which is what I was warning you against further reading.Lord_Hambrose posted:Lol, I am glad that you never change. Empyre was an event that I did not think people hated, co-written by Al Ewing who is a writer that a great many people in this thread and in the world like. It was co-written by Dan Slott, who is more divisive. It was relatively compact (in part due to pandemic delays) but if I am being unreasonable in asking "why did you expect to hate Empyre and if you did not hate Empyre, why did you like it?" then by all means ignore this.
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Apr 23, 2022 14:10
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Edge & Christian posted:They will absolutely be a hivemind working towards the same goal in any comic book published in the past decade, which is what I was warning you against further reading. They should stop writing them like that.
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Apr 23, 2022 14:51
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They should introduce a bunch of new unique Symbiotes and set up true symbiosis with Symbiotes as a potential future path for humanity to take alongside the Mutant takeover and the technological singularity paths shown in House of X
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Apr 23, 2022 14:53
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Gripweed posted:They should introduce a bunch of new unique Symbiotes and set up true symbiosis with Symbiotes as a potential future path for humanity to take alongside the Mutant takeover and the technological singularity paths shown in House of X But do they have wings
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Apr 23, 2022 15:00
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Rhyno posted:But do they have wings No I don't like that. Symbiotes should make complex mechanical structures like that.
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Apr 23, 2022 15:05
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I was going to recommend Carnage: U.S.A and Carnage: Family Feud, but while they're fun Carnage stories, nice work by Zeb Wells, I think they have many of the things you don't like as well. I don't think it has "new" symbiotes, but it uses many the old and forgotten ones. Haven't read them in a while, so definitely double check my math here.
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Apr 23, 2022 15:53
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Gripweed posted:OK so Absolute Carnage wasn't great. fwiw i believe this was shown in the carnage mini from a couple years ago starring John Jameson
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Apr 23, 2022 15:59
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Edge & Christian posted:I was not under the impression that Empyre was "notoriously unpopular". I guess being unpopular would require it being a story that anyone read or at least could vaguely remember. Also, just because creators are normally good doesn't mean everything they write is all high quality. Everyone I have spoken to about it at the time didn't like it, and I think you would be hard pressed to find someone that would recommend it to anyone. Did people here like it? Perhaps. King in Black at least has a character design and concept that certain people enjoy. Maybe a stupid reason but Venom looking "cool" and edgy means something. There is no KiB tie in as bad as Empyre: Captain America.
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Apr 23, 2022 16:00
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Yvonmukluk posted:Mods?! I also strongly dislike Kraven's Last Hunt, I think it's tacky and DeMatteis had like an eight year period of needing to cool it. Furthermore I thought Empyre was really fun. It had that ineffable Ewing thing where it feels like a retro romp while also having a freshness and a sense of invention and wonder to it. Was the plotting a bit ropey? Sure. Were the star characters my all-time faves? Nah. But I appreciated that it didn't lazily lean on a Celebrity Shock Death in lieu of actual narrative resolution in the end, and that it had fun sprucing up old continuity elements and making them feel interesting. It was also by and large gorgeous to look at.
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Apr 23, 2022 16:03
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How Wonderful! posted:that ineffable Ewing thing where it feels like a retro romp while also having a freshness and a sense of invention and wonder to it. 
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Apr 23, 2022 16:07
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i was gonna say that at least empyre had Dr Doom hanging out with the guardians fighting dormammu ego, but then i looked it up and that was not empyre
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Apr 23, 2022 16:11
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Last Annihilation was also sick though, that was like the perfect size for a crossover to me. Short and sweet but full of wild stuff happening.
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Apr 23, 2022 16:12
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Gripweed posted:They should introduce a bunch of new unique Symbiotes and set up true symbiosis with Symbiotes as a potential future path for humanity to take alongside the Mutant takeover and the technological singularity paths shown in House of X It does suck that the threat Spider-Man was originally afraid of, the symbiote permanently bonding with him, has never actually been realized. The symbiotes are traded and transferred like they're a pair of pants. Kasady was the closest they came to making the human and symbiote inseperable but that didn't last too long.
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Apr 23, 2022 16:27
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Empyre gave us Captain Marvel's Large Kree Sister, so it was worth it for that alone.
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Apr 23, 2022 16:44
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I also liked Empyre for what it was, which HW and others have summarized nicely; something that messes around in an additive way with old continuity and doesn't derail any books I am otherwise enjoying. I have a soft spot for old pre-MCU Avengers lore, and like a lot of things co-written by Slott, having a co-writer seems to temper some of the things I like least about his writing. I don't think it was a smash hit but it wasn't widely loathed, and the whole Hulkling/Wiccan marriage (especially after some people were convinced the event would kill one of them/break them up/otherwise ruin their characters) was a pleasant surprise compared to most CLASSIFIED twists in event comics. I can't speak to Empyre: Captain America because I didn't read it, and generally don't read ancillary tie-in books to things unless they have a creative team I like. Whatever happened in that tie-in did not ruin my reasonable enjoyment of the core Empyre series and some of the tie-ins written by Hickman/The X-Office, Gerry Duggan, Al Ewing, etc. King in Black also had some moderately fun tie-in comics written by people I like, and I imagine some less good ones I did not read because I wasn't interested in them. Those also might have been very bad.
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Apr 23, 2022 17:01
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Edge & Christian posted:I can't speak to Empyre: Captain America because I didn't read it, and generally don't read ancillary tie-in books to things unless they have a creative team I like. This is definitely the way to go. Unfortunately as someone who works in the industry I do usually read most things that come out so I am able to talk about them if I need to. I am certainly judging Empyre as one whole thing and not just cherry picking out the good bits. Obviously this can color perception. Marvel's tendency to go hog wild with tie ins can be a real hit or miss thing. They did choose to make "Empyre" more than just a four issue crossover between FF and Avengers.
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Apr 23, 2022 17:19
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I didn't read the main Empyre story, but the X-Men tie-ins were fun and easy enough to follow without reading the main books.
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Apr 23, 2022 17:20
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Lord_Hambrose posted:This is definitely the way to go. Unfortunately as someone who works in the industry I do usually read most things that come out so I am able to talk about them if I need to. I am certainly judging Empyre as one whole thing and not just cherry picking out the good bits. Obviously this can color perception. Marvel's tendency to go hog wild with tie ins can be a real hit or miss thing. They did choose to make "Empyre" more than just a four issue crossover between FF and Avengers. I grant you that publishers have made this difficult with their publishing strategies over the decade, but it seems like a valuable skill for someone who works in the industry. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 23, 2022 17:54
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man it's saturday morning chill out
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Apr 23, 2022 17:55
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I too respond to most disagreements by saying that the person who disagreed with me is unqualified for their job and their marriage is failing. It makes people think twice before disagreeing with me.
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Apr 23, 2022 18:39
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Well, if you were a customer in my store I absolutely would tastefully steer you in a different direction. There is a difference between how people act professionally and how you speak frankly about your real thoughts and opinions. site posted:man it's saturday morning chill out
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Apr 23, 2022 19:25
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i liked how in empyre they brought back the plant aliens from englehart's celestial madonna poo poo that no one had touched in decades. they had apparently been living in the blue area of the moon all this time, presumably just off panel in the dozens of stories that took place there. that really amuses me.
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Apr 23, 2022 20:01
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:i liked how in empyre they brought back the plant aliens from englehart's celestial madonna poo poo that no one had touched in decades. they had apparently been living in the blue area of the moon all this time, presumably just off panel in the dozens of stories that took place there. that really amuses me. i like to think that all my favorites are just off panel, waiting for a chance to shine. you'll get your due someday, slapstick.
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Apr 23, 2022 20:16
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Rhyno posted:But do they have wings Could the wings possibly… heat up??
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Apr 23, 2022 20:39
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Abroham Lincoln posted:Could the wings possibly… heat up?? So some manner of hot wing? That would never catch on.
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Apr 23, 2022 20:43
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Mods, please rename the thread "Marvel Comics Megathread: Empyre Appreciation Station"
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Apr 23, 2022 21:11
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I remember posting about my mixed opinions on Empyre while it was still ongoing and lot of people responded by saying that they were liking the event quite a bit. Has general opinion on it soured since then? I dropped the event partway through, so I have no idea if it fell apart at the end or anything like that.
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Apr 23, 2022 22:17
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Empyre was fine, if kind of forgettable. The only real lasting thing to come from it is Hulkling and Wiccan's marriage, and Hulkling becoming Prince of Space now.
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Apr 23, 2022 22:21
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I don't know, Empyre did some interesting things in terms of Marvel's space status quo, like conclusively unifying the Kree and Skrulls. That's a big deal and has largely been treated as such, albeit mostly in books Ewing's writing.
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Apr 23, 2022 22:23
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Empyre was good because anything that puts Teddy and Billy near the center is good. It was a fun crossover because it wasn't what I was expecting but in a good way and also Billy and Teddy are the best couple in all of Marvel.
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Apr 23, 2022 22:29
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Empyre is the textbook definition of “cromulent”.
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Apr 23, 2022 22:35
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Empyre itself was fine, that one weird tie-in where they had Hickman writing Wanda getting talked down to and being really bad at what she does was weird. And in hindsight? Absolutely didn't need to happen!
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Apr 23, 2022 22:38
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*shrug* I quite liked Empyre. It was a fun series of events with a lot of panache, character moments, great art, and a satisfying resolution. I did find it a little disorienting at first that everyone was fighting plant people, since plants are usually our friends! But then, I also liked that the whole point was that everyone was focused on the wrong problem right from the start and the real danger was much less obvious.
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Apr 23, 2022 22:49
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Gripweed posted:They should introduce a bunch of new unique Symbiotes and set up true symbiosis with Symbiotes as a potential future path for humanity to take alongside the Mutant takeover and the technological singularity paths shown in House of X That's basically what Venom: The End depicted, it's also basically the only good comic involving Symbiotes since the Agent Venom era ended(which in turn had been the first good thing done with them since some time back in the 90's)
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Apr 23, 2022 22:54
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:i liked how in empyre they brought back the plant aliens from englehart's celestial madonna poo poo that no one had touched in decades. they had apparently been living in the blue area of the moon all this time, presumably just off panel in the dozens of stories that took place there. that really amuses me.  Out on the Blue Area of the Moon having the time of my life with the Cotati. They're just out of frame, glaring too.
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Apr 23, 2022 23:55
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