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Pretty sure he had X-1s, which were at least $75k at the time, so ya. I should try and find his posts. It was a wonderful study in excess.
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Mar 26, 2022 06:35
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At least you actually get something with Wilsons. 600 pounds, 12 and 15" woofers, 2x7" mids, gently caress yeah sounds awesome. Vs. thousands of dollars for cables that do literally nothing.
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Mar 26, 2022 14:14
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KozmoNaut posted:The venerable dbx 120a's lowest frequency output is 26hz, stock) This thing is a goddamn weapon, if you haven’t experienced one before. My bandmate used to run his bass guitar thru it and out of a separate subwoofer for when we’d play drum n bass with guitars over the top. I stole it from him, and it sounds reeeeally mean attached to something like a TB-303.
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Mar 27, 2022 20:00
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I had the equivalent functionality in the dbx DriveRack PX that I used as an active crossover and EQ for a while. With a bit of tuning it really filled out the low end of music that was otherwise a bit lacking in that area.
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Mar 27, 2022 20:52
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KozmoNaut posted:I had the equivalent functionality in the dbx DriveRack PX that I used as an active crossover and EQ for a while. Hell yeah. Someone refresh my faulty memory, whose extremely loud drum n bass sound system was it that they tried to bring over to North America on tour, but it was never gonna work because the electricity requirements were something they couldn’t solve for? On top of import/visa and transportation fees, the technical hurdles meant it was doomed from the start, IIRC. I could be way off on any number of details there. I’m trying to pull together foggy memories from hearsay and old issues of Knowledge and Rinse mags.
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Mar 28, 2022 08:13
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KozmoNaut posted:I used to have a cool little half-width Yamaha A100 2x50W power amp. You're an idiot, now show us your carpet so I can ridicule that, too.
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Mar 28, 2022 18:41
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Dirt Road Junglist posted:This thing is a goddamn weapon, if you haven’t experienced one before. My bandmate used to run his bass guitar thru it and out of a separate subwoofer for when we’d play drum n bass with guitars over the top. I stole it from him, and it sounds reeeeally mean attached to something like a TB-303. 8 bit sound kills if you do it right https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iw_02HJKGc4
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Mar 28, 2022 19:09
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Dirt Road Junglist posted:Hell yeah. The Sinai system, maybe? Idk, there are tons of tough soundsystems in Europe that it could have been, but the Sinai is hands-down the loudest bass I've ever heard. It was actually unbearable to be in that room for more than a few minutes, and they were just playing rootsy reggae and dub on it. I'm curious about this too, now that you mention it. I wonder exactly what 'electrical requirements' were so prohibitive that they couldn't bring it over.
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Mar 28, 2022 19:51
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OH4SWrtDPPU
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Mar 28, 2022 20:03
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3D Megadoodoo posted:You're an idiot, now show us your carpet so I can ridicule that, too. No carpets, wood flooring everywhere for that analog warmth.
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Mar 28, 2022 23:38
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KozmoNaut posted:No carpets, wood flooring everywhere for that analog warmth. The fool's floor!
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Mar 28, 2022 23:43
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Mister Speaker posted:I'm curious about this too, now that you mention it. I wonder exactly what 'electrical requirements' were so prohibitive that they couldn't bring it over. It’s more likely to be Dillinja’s VALVE System:  If it’s not been sold, then it’s been sat in storage forever but was made up of a full 40ft truck’s worth of Funktion One Res5 mains over 18” scoops and dual 15” band pass horn kick boxes from the Reflekta series by Tony Rossell of Acoustic Sound Systems (yes, rear end). He also built many of the cabinets for Turbosound and Martin Audio in the 1970s and 80s. It was driven by XTA processing (also British) and a few metric tons of Crown VZ amplifiers. Those are American, but the UK versions were fixed to 230V AC mains voltage - something that is annoyingly uncommon in the sorts of venues that would host a massive drum and bass rave, even today. That said, it was likely a handy excuse that was ‘cooler’ than the cost and time of six weeks at sea for transit either side of the show(s), carnet (pre-paid tax on the system’s total market value when new just in case you don’t bring it back), plus inter-state trucking, insurance, storage and working visas for the crew and performers. You can read about the rig, the shows using it, and the history of classic drum and bass music in the awesome Renegade Snares book. As fun as VALVE was at the time, you’ll get a similar experience from a wall of PK or Danley BC subs run at full chat on that side of the pond. Sinai’s subs pre-2021 were also a type of 18” scoop - technically a transmission line and rear loaded horn hybrid - designed and licensed to them by a friend of mine from Helsinki. I actually introduced those guys, many moons ago. The sound world is much smaller than you might think. Especially among folk who used to do daft things such as deploying 24 subwoofers for a stage that holds less than 800 people, between 10 foot thick walls of an abandoned fort… 
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Mar 29, 2022 00:16
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Neurophonic posted:daft things such as deploying 24 subwoofers for a stage that holds less than 800 people, between 10 foot thick walls of an abandoned fort… Daft, but also aspirational.
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Mar 29, 2022 00:40
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Wow that's awesome! Outlook 2019 is actually where I experienced the Sinai system. I think a big part of its actually-painful loudness was the space it was in (it was inside the fort, actually might be the same spot as your picture). One of the outdoor stages had a Void system I think, that was also great but sounded like it was being pushed too hard. Toronto's local heavyweights are the Dub Rock, 40Hz and Iron Lung soundsystems. Last Friday I worked the door at a warehouse party that was powered by the 40Hz system and it was tight as hell.
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Mar 29, 2022 00:43
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Content under 20hz is awesome and more music should include infrasound. It is more common in albums than it used to be, and in most modern movies as sfx. You can feel it, it's not audiophile bs. My theater system had output to about 12hz and some albums were incredible on it, thinking of three love songs by ricky eat acid in particular
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Mar 29, 2022 00:58
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taqueso posted:Content under 20hz is awesome and more music should include infrasound. It is more common in recordings than it used to be. You can feel it, it's not audiophile bs. My theater system had output to about 12hz and some albums were incredible on it, thinking of three love songs by ricky eat acid in particular honestly I feel the same way about stereo subs people are like bass direction is imperceptible because node length, and like—no it actually isn’t because you can feel the air move and poo poo and that tells your brain how to perceive sound there’s some really cool panning stuff in a lot of electronic and ambient that you can easily pick up with bassy headphones but gets lost in 2.1 when everything comes out of one sub.
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Mar 29, 2022 01:03
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2 subs is always better than one if you can float it. We bassheads need to get into 2 subs.
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Mar 29, 2022 02:22
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Neurophonic posted:It’s more likely to be Dillinja’s VALVE System: That's the one! I was drawing a blank on Dillinja's name and was too lazy to go flip thru my records, but I knew someone posting here would have the answer. Neurophonic posted:That said, it was likely a handy excuse that was ‘cooler’ than the cost and time of six weeks at sea for transit either side of the show(s), carnet (pre-paid tax on the system’s total market value when new just in case you don’t bring it back), plus inter-state trucking, insurance, storage and working visas for the crew and performers. I talked to some of the people who were trying to get them to tour VALVE in the US, and it was mostly that -- the electrical logistics were a lot of overhead, but the real problem was making the money back. I mean, on top of shipping a bunch of large, heavy poo poo. Regarding bass in mono, one of the tenets of drum n bass production is that your sub tones are ALWAYS in mono. Partly because it doesn't add much to the mix (arguable), but mainly because dnb is a vinyl based genre, and you don't want your needle rattling itself all over the place because it's trying to bounce back and forth in the depths of the groove.
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Mar 29, 2022 02:23
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Mister Speaker posted:Wow that's awesome! That was my Void rig; the first of their Incubus systems ever sold and using DSP designed by myself. Good ear though - it was being pushed hard into the limits! In all previous years that stage had six more 21” subs across the centre, front fills, and hangs in towers for the people at the back. Budgets were cut drastically in 2019 though, and the promoters were very much out of favours… I don’t think system did do too badly, given that there were just four subs and a pair of mains for an audience area of 20m x 80m, but sadly you missed the heyday of the festival. I handled the audio system design for 5 or 6 stages at both the Outlook & Dimensions events at the fort from 2011 onward, plus we provided the entire DJ backline of some 60 CDJs and equal numbers of 1210 vinyl decks. Fun times at gross volumes, with beta tests and new toys every year. I almost had an EU debut for PK lined up in that final show, but the budgets just weren’t anywhere close to working out even as a promotional deal. The complete custom silver Void system - that was good enough for that stage to be renamed after it - now resides in Oregon. Had to sell it on due to the COVID hit. I’m fairly sure I’ve met a few of the 40Hz guys over the years out there. Certainly hung out with Distinct Motive a bunch, and I’ve been aware of their work for a long time. A good buddy of mine moved over from Toronto pre-pandemic, partly due to the music scene here in the UK. Anyway, enough about fun noisy parties in the sunshine and back to audio quackery. On that note, those subs actually had carbon fibre cones in them originally - an expensive novelty back in 2013. I suppose I have to give credit to the siting of a festival on dusty shingle; free, near limitless Magic Pebbles around every amp and cable run. taqueso posted:Content under 20hz is awesome and more music should include infrasound. It is more common in albums than it used to be, and in most modern movies as sfx. You can feel it, it's not audiophile bs. My theater system had output to about 12hz and some albums were incredible on it, thinking of three love songs by ricky eat acid in particular You don’t even need to explicitly boost the infrasound content in music for the benefit to be audible. A long and thorough research project by the engineer for the Prodigy found that by simply using a subwoofer setup that plays one octave lower than the typical 30Hz -3dB target, listeners set their preferred playback level up to 3dB lower for the same perceived output. For both volume and quality metrics. The onset of Whole Body Vibration also occurs quite quickly at those frequencies, and that leads to the ‘rock and roll high’. Which is fun and awesome, but can cause temporary cognitive impairment for several days, or longer term health problems, as NASA found in the 60s and 70s. Some fun charts from a recent (paywalled) research paper on body response from concert subwoofer output:    https://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=20383 Hit 94 dBZ (linear scale) or greater at 20Hz and the fun begins. It doesn’t really start until 107dBZ though. Which is why I have four of these: https://www.danleysoundlabs.com/products/th221/ Now I just need a house I can fit them into. Neurophonic fucked around with this message at 02:33 on Mar 29, 2022 |
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Mar 29, 2022 02:29
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KozmoNaut posted:No carpets, wood flooring everywhere for that analog warmth. You should put down some nice wall to wall carpet, it's great for sound absorption.
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Mar 29, 2022 02:30
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Sure, let me just completely cover up my original 1930s solid hardwood floors 
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Mar 29, 2022 06:49
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Whoa. Uh... hire me? please? :3
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Mar 30, 2022 04:38
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Neurophonic posted:That was my Void rig... Holy poo poo, that's cool as gently caress. What are you guys thoughts on the thing that Soulwax and James Murphy had going for a while? It reads like they were going more for quality loudness rather than just loud loudness at any cost. Lol at that video posted above. I'd love to hear what the state of the art clubs sound like now. My clubbing tapered off around 2001 and the best I'd heard was probably The Ministry of Sound, or Fabric. MoS was so hyped up that it couldn't really live up to it, but it was incredibly clear and not tiring. https://musictech.com/features/interviews/james-murphy-soulwax-despacio/ It was due to return in 2020. Bad timing. https://www.mcintoshlabs.com/brand/news/Despacio-Powered-by-McIntosh-2020 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5z6lG8AAyk YerDa Zabam fucked around with this message at 08:49 on Apr 20, 2022 |
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Apr 20, 2022 08:42
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Going from memory here because I've not watched the video for a reminder but there was some bizarre audiophile crossover with the manually set time alignment for the tweeters on the stacks, the McIntosh boutique amps and then they had multiple stack around the dance floor? And just played stereo tracks through it? I imagine the sweet spot would be in the exact middle of all of the stacks if they were all going full whack but then you're firing stereo audio through multiple channels? Of course if your speakers sound good then stuff you play through them is going to sound good. I suppose the real question with this set up is how much worse it sounded when running more than just the stereo pair. I've been in spots which had 4 or more stacks firing inward and it was OK but the best stuff I've heard has had a big stereo stack and maybe a couple of delays further back, all facing the one direction. Though I fully admit whoever set all of these up may or may not know what the gently caress they're doing in all cases. Im definitely interested in hearing other opinions on it, especially if anyone was lucky(?) enough to hear it.
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Apr 20, 2022 23:33
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Adolf Glitter posted:Holy poo poo, that's cool as gently caress. I know it quite well. Heard it first at the debut gig since it was on my doorstep at the time. Fun night out, but I wasn’t that impressed. Decent components but pretty much all off the shelf, and shoved into simple boxes. No expense spared on the front end, of course, but I’ve heard many other systems of a similar style that did it much better. There’s some ‘art’ to the circular array of dance stacks, which only a few seem to put into effect. David Mancuso was a pioneer there, especially with the attempts at physical decorrelation - it’s about making a ‘sound field’ rather than any sense of exacting accuracy. The argument is that you end up with a different sound every few feet. It encourages movement, mingling, and allows folk to choose their own ‘sweet spot’. The Despacio setup had to add some powered 21”Yorkville subs last minute due to the dual 15” cabs they’d asked for not playing low nor loud enough for the intended application . My carpenter friend also built the stacks from the literal ‘back of a cigarette packet’ doodles that he got sent, including the cool but awkward as poo poo ‘bird box’ that went on top. That thing was a nightmare to get up on the fragile metal racks that the amps went into. Even more so when I helped set it up at Glastonbury’s Dance Village a year later. Don’t even get me started on the extra weight due to the ‘flight cases’ they had made up after realising how easy it is to scratch lacquered bare wood cabinets in a truck. Putting the 20 ft diameter mirror ball up was even more fun. The thing to remember is most of this sort of setup is about the relatively unique experience. If you had it available every week, then it’d be less enjoyable. It’s only grumpy nerds like myself that really pick holes in it, and I’ll fully admit I had good times dancing there. Unfortunately my photo archive doesn’t seem to stretch back that far, but let’s just say that someone was assigned to keep the health & safety officer for the area occupied while we got the job done… I’m curious where it lives now. Would be nice to see it out again, and perhaps even have a go at — shock horror — attempting to improve some of the polar response issues with DSP. I designed a ‘surround’ DJ stage system of a similar vein but on a slightly larger scale a few years back. It’s one of my favourites, even if I’m slightly biased:   Second shot is from a crane above the giant head that marks the stage end. About 5000 folk in a 50m x 50m area, a fairly well hidden ‘six point’ Danley system with balcony fills and just 9 subwoofers. It gets plenty loud enough for a good time.  Don’t want to overshare more than I already am, but I can upload a few half decent quality videos of this system playing tunes during the build and then again mid-show if anyone is interested. Neurophonic fucked around with this message at 00:21 on Apr 21, 2022 |
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Apr 21, 2022 00:18
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Do you use gold centered oegone to balance the inverse kinsces effect causes by drink patrons flattening the aural wave strands which impacts the brightness?
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Apr 21, 2022 00:29
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Neurophonic posted:Don’t want to overshare more than I already am, but I can upload a few half decent quality videos of this system playing tunes during the build and then again mid-show if anyone is interested. Always up for some decent 'in the wild' content of big rigs flexing.
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Apr 21, 2022 13:11
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post ''em if you got 'em
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Apr 21, 2022 16:52
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Neurophonic posted:Don’t want to overshare more than I already am, but I can upload a few half decent quality videos of this system playing tunes during the build and then again mid-show if anyone is interested. Definitely into this. Also hire me please. 
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Apr 21, 2022 17:09
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Neurophonic posted:
Please do.
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Apr 21, 2022 21:08
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tater_salad posted:Do you use gold centered oegone to balance the inverse kinsces effect causes by drink patrons flattening the aural wave strands which impacts the brightness? No, but that stage was blessed by a real Native American in an authentic ceremony before the doors opened. I wish I was kidding. Apparently I can’t upload videos to YouTube from my phone anymore, but I’ll stick them up when I get back to my PC.
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Apr 21, 2022 22:30
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Read some people going crazy over room correction in this thread and elsewhere and I'm very curious to give it a try. Is there a way to do it without throwing hundreds of dollars at it or do you have to buy hardware first? I have a Yamaha AS-801 driving a pair of Wharfedale lintons, sources are a computer plugged into the 801 through USB using amps built-in DAC, and a turntable plugged into the phono input with an RCA cable.
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Apr 23, 2022 03:34
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You can start with Room EQ Wizard which is free [except for a microphone] but it’s entirely DIY.
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Apr 23, 2022 03:53
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qirex posted:You can start with Room EQ Wizard which is free [except for a microphone] but it’s entirely DIY. That looks cool and the price is right but I wouldn't have a clue what to do with the various graphs it generates. I guess I ever get a new amp I'll look for one with a built in thing.
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Apr 23, 2022 04:36
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large hands posted:Read some people going crazy over room correction in this thread and elsewhere and I'm very curious to give it a try. Is there a way to do it without throwing hundreds of dollars at it or do you have to buy hardware first? I have a Yamaha AS-801 driving a pair of Wharfedale lintons, sources are a computer plugged into the 801 through USB using amps built-in DAC, and a turntable plugged into the phono input with an RCA cable. You can do the most advanced ‘correction’ you’d ever want using EqualizerAPO on Windows, plus REW to make measurements and rePhase to generate (magnitude only) correction filters. You want to research the ‘moving mic technique’ or use a magnitude-only average of the response measured at >9 positions across your total listening area to get a reasonable input pre-distortion filter. Don’t be fooled by the ‘magic’ linear phase methods unless you’re planning to keep your head locked in a vice. Movements of even a few centimetres will screw up the lovely flat trace you synthesise. This isn’t a replacement for treating a room to have a steadily-decaying diffuse reflective field though. Sorry it took me a while to upload these. Hopefully YT hasn’t mangled it too much, or removed the copyrighted tunes: https://youtu.be/QvrFjWNSKDg https://youtu.be/jvGoRKX5_Hg Good headphones recommended. You can hear the kick drum time alignment drifting out as I reach the extremes of the coverage area.
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Apr 23, 2022 18:10
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Use room correction to tamp down peaks and correct general deficiencies, like Neurophonic says you will drive yourself crazy if you start hunting for ruler-flat response. Do narrow cuts to tame peaks only, don't try to correct narrow dips. Narrow peaks are quite audible, but our ears tend to skip over narrow dips and don't really notice them, unless they're quite bad. You can use wide cuts/boosts to correct the sound over a wider frequency range, that's fine. Remember that less is more, and that this is purely EQ correction and doesn't account for phase/time alignment. When I used EQ to manually tweak the sound in my living room, I used 4 filters and that was plenty to make it sound pleasing and balanced. KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 09:12 on Apr 24, 2022 |
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Apr 24, 2022 09:08
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Thanks for all the advice everyone. I should say that I don't think there's anything offensively bad about the sound of my system, just seeing all the glowing praise here for room correction piqued my curiosity. I don't know anything about acoustics so I'd need a "for dummies" guide of what I'm trying to achieve with the software you've all mentioned. I'm willing to learn if its the alternative to spending $500 on a box (minidsp?) that may or may not do anything for me. I'm guessing the software method will only apply to music playing from my computer and I'd need the DSP if I liked the effect enough that I wanted it when listening to records?
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Apr 24, 2022 16:31
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If you're already pleased with the sound of your system, room correction probably isn't going to make a dramatic difference. Where it can really help in most rooms is when integrating one or more subwoofers, by smoothing out room resonances. KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Apr 24, 2022 |
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Apr 24, 2022 16:42
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Buy motr crystals and higher end matched resonance cables It really adds to the musicfeel.
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Apr 24, 2022 17:16
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For the price of a measurement microphone, you can buy several boulders. Don't waste money on dsp woowoo, go with old reliable
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Apr 24, 2022 17:25
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