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Stuporstar posted:This topic always makes me ponder if I should just footnote my stories all to hell for the few turbonerds who might give a poo poo and then somehow make clear the footnotes are optional, because pulling all my bullshit out and quarantining it in footnotes is the only way I can control the goddamned impulse I think a lot of it depends on if there is a way to explain it briefly in the story, i.e. these elves live in the suburbs because they aren't too fond of the city elf king, and later when orcs attack the suburbs you also realize the king tolerates this because they act as buffers so they have time to rally the troops. The first you have have a crabby elf matron mention offhandedly while preparing a spell for your party ("blah blah you can't get these spells in the city, the bastard king won't allow such magicks near his eyesore of a castle"), the second just is part of the plot but doesn't need direct explaining. Some readers won't understand the sky is blue even if the book says the sky is blue and is titled "Blue Sky" Then save your extra five thousand year history background stuff for exclusive short stories and world guides for your mailing list! But then I'm someone who would just read world guides with no plot so I don't mind exposition dumps if they don't get in the way of the type of story it is trying to be - Tolkeinish high fantasy usually means dumps, fast action usually means don't explain unless needed
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Apr 25, 2022 18:31
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Always Coming Home is my favourite book and it is mostly worldbuilding. But most of us ain't LeGuin. Oh also Strix I picked up that Caleb Carr book and so far it is extremely my poo poo thank you for mentioning it here.
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Apr 25, 2022 18:38
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HopperUK posted:Oh also Strix I picked up that Caleb Carr book and so far it is extremely my poo poo thank you for mentioning it here.  I gotta find more used bookstores in the area, browsing and finding weird stuff I've never heard of is my favorite. 
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Apr 25, 2022 18:43
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Reading Riddley Walker at the moment, it's a challenging read but worth it. It was especially fun to read Abel Goodparley talk with an absolute certainty about the world before the nuke dropped and not getting a single thing right.
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Apr 25, 2022 19:16
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Alhazred posted:Reading Riddley Walker at the moment, it's a challenging read but worth it. It was especially fun to read Abel Goodparley talk with an absolute certainty about the world before the nuke dropped and not getting a single thing right. I loving love that book! There's a very good episode of one of my book podcasts about it. Either Overdue or Backlisted.
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Apr 25, 2022 19:21
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pradmer posted:Hench by Natalie Zina Walschots - $1.99
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Apr 25, 2022 19:58
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Stuporstar posted:This topic always makes me ponder if I should just footnote my stories all to hell for the few turbonerds who might give a poo poo and then somehow make clear the footnotes are optional, because pulling all my bullshit out and quarantining it in footnotes is the only way I can control the goddamned impulse Stick 'em behind a paywall in your Patreon. Profit!
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Apr 25, 2022 20:12
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world building sucks compared to just throwing in what ever the most interesting idea is you have in your head at the moment for a story and then vaguely sticking to it for subsequent ones Dying Earth and the pulp fantasy tradition > pages of linguistic and economic footnotes refined to a 5 book series of slabs
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Apr 25, 2022 20:27
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I feel an uncomfortable twinge when people say “It’s written in the style of the Silmarillion” instead of “It’s written like a history book.”
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Apr 25, 2022 20:55
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FPyat posted:My favorite GoodReads reviewer gave it five stars and gushed over its qualities. Now I'm interested in reading it, given that there are rather few times when I would wish a novel would have less technical description of machines. Then you'll probably like it, yeah. Out of curiosity which reviewer? My own stable of preferred GR reviewers ran the gamut from one star to four.
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Apr 25, 2022 21:12
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Tbh I don't know if I can give a criticism of worldbuilding and info-dumps that doesn't come off as tautological. The worldbuilding I like is good worldbuilding, and its good because I like it. Why do I like it? Because it serves the plot/theme/characters and doesn't get in the way of the story. How do I know that it serves the plot/theme/characters and doesn't get in the way of the story? Because I like it.
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Apr 25, 2022 21:17
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g r a y d o n. he's a little more esoteric than i really prefer but i like the way he does it. you don't ever get told anything that isn't immediately necessary, it's up to you to figure out half of it. i like my books to feel like a real place and the way you do that isn't explaining a bunch of poo poo... but the poo poo should still exist in the background.
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Apr 25, 2022 21:26
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freebooter posted:Then you'll probably like it, yeah. Out of curiosity which reviewer? My own stable of preferred GR reviewers ran the gamut from one star to four. This is her: https://www.goodreads.com/user/show/14941179-anna I always relish finding accounts that read both fun fiction and heady stuff, fiction and nonfiction. Richness and diversity of knowledge is one of the things I prioritize in a reviewer, I think.
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Apr 25, 2022 22:02
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ToxicFrog posted:Put the small amusing bits in footnotes and the massive worldbuilding tome in appendices, IMO. I’m basically writing an entire dictionary and grammar book of my Ancient-Egyptian-based conlang and an encyclopedia to match. My worldbuilding is absolutely out of control and I have no regrets (just the six partially-finished novels that are nowhere near publishable yet—loving ADD, man) secular woods sex posted:Tbh I loved Fitzpatrick’s War because of the footnotes. I love this kinda thing. I’m writing in 1st person as the fictional memoir of an humanoid alien con-artist, and I’ve been having fun using the footnotes to contradict them as the translator of the work, kinda a secondary frame-narrator who explains all the worldbuilding poo poo. I may end up posting it as a blog or webfic with the footnotes and translations all linked with hovertext or something. I could probably make it work as an ebook as well. Not even gonna worry about a future possible physical book at this point, cause I don’t want that limiting my fun. Tars Tarkas posted:I think a lot of it depends on if there is a way to explain it briefly in the story, i.e. these elves live in the suburbs because they aren't too fond of the city elf king, and later when orcs attack the suburbs you also realize the king tolerates this because they act as buffers so they have time to rally the troops. The first you have have a crabby elf matron mention offhandedly while preparing a spell for your party ("blah blah you can't get these spells in the city, the bastard king won't allow such magicks near his eyesore of a castle"), the second just is part of the plot but doesn't need direct explaining. Some readers won't understand the sky is blue even if the book says the sky is blue and is titled "Blue Sky" I’ve written almost a whole textbook fulla my bullshit because it’s the only way to keep it from spilling all over the stories themselves. Course I completely err on giving too little info rather than too much. And because I know exactly what’s going on, I often fail to explain enough poo poo to give readers context. I have to depend on my beta readers to ask “what the hell?” to point out where maybe I should probably explain something. Then there’s the conlang I can’t help using too drat much and will have to reel in. I was originally aiming for a Clockwork Orange level of slang, but I’ve gone totally round the bend writing whole chunks of dialogue in a conlang that has different dialects and registers, from formal Medukhenmet to Spacer creole (which is at least partially English), so I can show my protagonist code-switching depending on who they’re bullshitting. Since I’m not too invested in gaining a huge audience, maybe just a few ultranerds who are into my poo poo, I’m just going for it. gently caress trying to write something accessible. I’ll settle for comprehensible with a little effort and hope at least someone gets the all the puns (Ancient Egyptian was an extremely punny language, and I’m adding more so I can have fun misunderstandings between characters) Runcible Cat posted:Stick 'em behind a paywall in your Patreon. Profit! I have tons of extant material like alien anatomy drawings that would be perfect for this kinda thing as well  If I ever get to polishing up my drafts 
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Apr 25, 2022 23:44
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Larry Parrish posted:g r a y d o n. Haha yes he goes overboard in the other direction and writes books I really want to enjoy but just can’t get through
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Apr 26, 2022 00:50
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 I found this tucked away in this very wrong section at my local used book store. Got it for $12 and it's basically new.
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Apr 26, 2022 01:28
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Today I read that Jerry Pournelle was at LosCon in 1976, seeing a pre-release presentation on Star Wars. He became incensed with what he learned about the movie, and heckled the presenter off the stage shouting "This is space opera, not science fiction!" Amusing to know the "SW isn't really SF" people didn't emerge in the last 20 years.
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Apr 26, 2022 02:07
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FPyat posted:This is her: https://www.goodreads.com/user/show/14941179-anna Cheers - always looking for new reviewers to add.
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Apr 26, 2022 09:10
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FPyat posted:Today I read that Jerry Pournelle was at LosCon in 1976, seeing a pre-release presentation on Star Wars. He became incensed with what he learned about the movie, and heckled the presenter off the stage shouting "This is space opera, not science fiction!" Amusing to know the "SW isn't really SF" people didn't emerge in the last 20 years.
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Apr 26, 2022 12:18
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Ccs posted:Haha yes he goes overboard in the other direction and writes books I really want to enjoy but just can’t get through Graydon doesn't do "worldbuilding" so much as "civil engineering or military AAR where you can see that there's a whole world the characters built upon."
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Apr 26, 2022 16:46
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Shitstorm Trooper posted:
This book is a wild ride, it marks Twin Peaks as the intersection of basically every American conspiracy theory you can think of, and then some. Nice find
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Apr 26, 2022 18:56
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Ben Nerevarine posted:This book is a wild ride, it marks Twin Peaks as the intersection of basically every American conspiracy theory you can think of, and then some. Nice find
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Apr 26, 2022 18:56
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Cicero posted:Truly it's the Gravity Falls of books Basically Night Vale before Night Vale.
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Apr 26, 2022 19:07
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Everyone posted:Basically Night Vale before Night Vale. It's a cheap remake of the Illuminatus! trilogy.
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Apr 26, 2022 21:28
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Sandman Slim (#1) by Richard Kadrey - $1.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00338QF1E/ Senlin Ascends (Books of Babel #1) by Josiah Bancroft - $2.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074M62D7Y/ The Gone World by Tom Sweterlitsch - $1.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0722TJN5P/
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Apr 26, 2022 22:12
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Into the Labyrinth (Mage Errant #1) is currently also free if you want some very YA progression fantasy: https://www.amazon.com/Into-Labyrinth-Mage-Errant-Book-ebook/dp/B07J675X2C The giveaway is because #6 just came out.
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Apr 26, 2022 22:27
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Cicero posted:Into the Labyrinth (Mage Errant #1) is currently also free if you want some very YA progression fantasy: https://www.amazon.com/Into-Labyrinth-Mage-Errant-Book-ebook/dp/B07J675X2C I read The Wrack by the same author and was very happy with it, a neat little fantasy epidemiological story, and then tried Mage Errant... only to find it too YA for me.
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Apr 27, 2022 13:56
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fez_machine posted:world building sucks compared to just throwing in what ever the most interesting idea is you have in your head at the moment for a story and then vaguely sticking to it for subsequent ones I think I'm kind of running into this now with the Elric books. What I would nowadays consider some weird retconning just seems to be a series of loosely connected stories that don't necessarily line up with each other. They're pretty good but that definitely took some adjusting on my part.
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Apr 27, 2022 15:40
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NinjaDebugger posted:It's a cheap remake of the Illuminatus! trilogy. Hey if you're gonna steal steal something good.
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Apr 27, 2022 15:46
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A Proper Uppercut posted:I think I'm kind of running into this now with the Elric books. What I would nowadays consider some weird retconning just seems to be a series of loosely connected stories that don't necessarily line up with each other. They're pretty good but that definitely took some adjusting on my part. Yeah, Moorcock wrote the first - 5 or 6? - in chronological order beginning to end, then went back later and wrote other stories to fill in the gaps, then other stories to fill in the gaps between those etc etc. It's kind of like creationists demanding more and more transitional forms in the fossil record at this point.
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Apr 27, 2022 16:59
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The taltos books kind of seem like that. Story referencing a story that came before and then it's the next story to come out
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Apr 27, 2022 19:26
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I've been inexplicably on a "human mind(s) shatter on the rocks of something fundamentally incomprehensible" kick lately, with some prime examples being like, The Cipher by Kathe Joka, Uzumaki by Junji Ito, House of Leaves, Blindsight, or the Area X trilogy. Stuff like Ship of Fools is good too! Does anyone have any other recommendations along those veins? Just read The Last Astronaut and, while it was decent, it wasn't quite what I was looking for.
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Apr 27, 2022 21:09
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RoboCicero posted:I've been inexplicably on a "human mind(s) shatter on the rocks of something fundamentally incomprehensible" kick lately, with some prime examples being like, The Cipher by Kathe Joka, Uzumaki by Junji Ito, House of Leaves, Blindsight, or the Area X trilogy. Stuff like Ship of Fools is good too! Does anyone have any other recommendations along those veins? Just read The Last Astronaut and, while it was decent, it wasn't quite what I was looking for. The ur-case of that genre is _Rogue Moon_ by Algis Budrys. It is dated in some ways but its at the root of the Big Dumb Object genre. Solaris is the other one that springs to mind. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Apr 27, 2022 |
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Apr 27, 2022 21:13
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The Red One by Jack London?
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Apr 27, 2022 21:21
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HopperUK posted:Douglas Adams was close with the Python crew, there's a lot of cross-pollination there. He also adored Doctor Who and wrote a story for it. Having read a biography on the topic recently... He had a bit of a writing thing going with Graham Chapman for a while. He is one of only two writers beside the pythons to get a writing credit on Monty Python, the other being Neil Innes. He also appeared in a couple of sketches in season 4. He was also the Script Editor for season 17 of Doctor Who, which is the script-commissioning and, obviously, editing part of the contemporary showrunner role (but not the producer part). So he was literally staff. I shall now return this knowledge to the memory banks for it to never be useful again.
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Apr 27, 2022 21:32
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:The ur-case of that genre is _Rogue Moon_ by Algis Budrys. If we’re talking Lem, there is also Eden
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Apr 27, 2022 21:36
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RoboCicero posted:I've been inexplicably on a "human mind(s) shatter on the rocks of something fundamentally incomprehensible" kick lately, with some prime examples being like, The Cipher by Kathe Joka, Uzumaki by Junji Ito, House of Leaves, Blindsight, or the Area X trilogy. Stuff like Ship of Fools is good too! Does anyone have any other recommendations along those veins? Just read The Last Astronaut and, while it was decent, it wasn't quite what I was looking for. CJ Cherryh’s Voyager In Night.
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Apr 27, 2022 22:35
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These recommendations are great! I can't believe I forgot to list Solaris and Diamond Dogs as entries, both of which are really wonderful works.
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Apr 27, 2022 23:24
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The Chain of Chance by Stanislaw Lem - $1.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008F0ON4G/
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Apr 27, 2022 23:40
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Shitstorm Trooper posted:Hey if you're gonna steal steal something good. Then why would you steal Illuminatus?
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