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large hands
Jan 24, 2006

KozmoNaut posted:

If you're already pleased with the sound of your system, room correction probably isn't going to make a dramatic difference.

Where it can really help in most rooms is when integrating one or more subwoofers, by smoothing out room resonances.

Well the lintons are reasonably big ported speakers in a relatively small listening room so I'd still be curious if I could tighten up the bass.

But in the spirit of the thread I suppose I should be asking what kind of hand carved knobs I can install on the amp to add more air, presence and speed to my Steely Dan and Diana Krall SACDs

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KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


large hands posted:

Well the lintons are reasonably big ported speakers in a relatively small listening room so I'd still be curious if I could tighten up the bass.

Yeah absolutely. Room correction is most important below the frequency at which the sound waves become more resonant and omnidirectional and create standing waves. Focus on correcting below 300Hz, that's where the biggest gains are.

https://hometheaterreview.com/room-correction-revisited/

E: it's not the very best article on room correction, but it covers the importance of room correction mostly below a certain frequency well enough.

KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Apr 24, 2022

Mr. Mercury
Aug 13, 2021



You can also add things to break up echoes like rockwool-stuffed frames that look like art. Really, anything you do to make your room hostile to standing waves/comb filtering the better

large hands
Jan 24, 2006

Mr. Mercury posted:

You can also add things to break up echoes like rockwool-stuffed frames that look like art. Really, anything you do to make your room hostile to standing waves/comb filtering the better

I will not be doing this.

YerDa Zabam
Aug 13, 2016



large hands posted:

I will not be doing this.

You're going to nail old mattresses up huh?

I've been in a anarchist squat studio that had this and it did actually work quite well. Some obvious drawbacks of course

Jeherrin
Jun 7, 2012

Adolf Glitter posted:

You're going to nail old mattresses up huh?

I've been in a anarchist squat studio that had this and it did actually work quite well. Some obvious drawbacks of course

Off the top of my head I can't think of anything apart from potentially the smell

BonHair
Apr 28, 2007

Jeherrin posted:

Off the top of my head I can't think of anything apart from potentially the smell

Aesthetics. Also it would actually make a small room noticeably smaller.

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

BonHair posted:

Aesthetics. Also it would actually make a small room noticeably smaller.

So do I :shrug:

Olympic Mathlete
Feb 25, 2011

:h:


Neurophonic posted:

Sorry it took me a while to upload these. Hopefully YT hasn’t mangled it too much, or removed the copyrighted tunes:

https://youtu.be/QvrFjWNSKDg

https://youtu.be/jvGoRKX5_Hg

Good headphones recommended. You can hear the kick drum time alignment drifting out as I reach the extremes of the coverage area.

On that second video I love the mic lowering the gain when the subs kick in. Sounds beefy which all good systems should imo. When it comes to stages, are you having to find solutions to fit spaces or are you involved in the design of them? Having wedged speakers into weird room layouts the latter has to be easier but as an AV nerd for work I know that we're never a concern until the last minute when someone figures out they're going to need some.

Animale
Sep 30, 2009

large hands posted:

I will not be doing this.

Just do something like what the Recovering Audiophile did at his new house.
https://youtu.be/2Tx_8HE1GvY

Animale fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Apr 25, 2022

Mr. Mercury
Aug 13, 2021



That man has not recovered

Mister Speaker
May 8, 2007

WE WILL CONTROL
ALL THAT YOU SEE
AND HEAR

Neurophonic posted:

Sorry it took me a while to upload these. Hopefully YT hasn’t mangled it too much, or removed the copyrighted tunes:

https://youtu.be/QvrFjWNSKDg

https://youtu.be/jvGoRKX5_Hg

Good headphones recommended. You can hear the kick drum time alignment drifting out as I reach the extremes of the coverage area.

This was awesome, thank you.

Palladium
May 8, 2012

Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️
it's amazing to see digital audio woo-woo still exists, when enormous amounts of ECC fuckery are needed for flash storage to even store and read the bits to begin with.

tater_salad
Sep 15, 2007


Yeah but if you have a tuned flash drive you really can hear the deep tones and fleshed out mids.

ynohtna
Feb 16, 2007

backwoods compatible
Illegal Hen

tater_salad posted:

fleshed out mids.

*inserts media into abdomen*

Death to phonodrome! Long live the new flash!

adeadcrab
Feb 1, 2006

Objectifying women is cool and normal
Reading comments on head-fi saying their new headphone amp doesn’t have ‘fleshed out mids’ through their headphones.

Like no, your new amp is clean and your headphone is tuned that way. Don’t blame the amp because it your headphones sound differently to a $6000 tube amp.

njsykora
Jan 23, 2012

Robots confuse squirrels.


Refusing to accept that you just don't like the headphones you bought is like 95% of amp chat.

Palladium
May 8, 2012

Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️

njsykora posted:

Refusing to accept that you just don't like the headphones you bought is like 95% of amp chat.

but look at us plebs who don't engage in cargo cults of insanely marked up crap

LRADIKAL
Jun 10, 2001

Fun Shoe
Audiophile Hate or Audiophile Need?
https://news.mit.edu/2022/low-power-thin-loudspeaker-0426

quote:

MIT engineers have developed a paper-thin loudspeaker that can turn any surface into an active audio source.

This thin-film loudspeaker produces sound with minimal distortion while using a fraction of the energy required by a traditional loudspeaker. The hand-sized loudspeaker the team demonstrated, which weighs about as much as a dime, can generate high-quality sound no matter what surface the film is bonded to.

To achieve these properties, the researchers pioneered a deceptively simple fabrication technique, which requires only three basic steps and can be scaled up to produce ultrathin loudspeakers large enough to cover the inside of an automobile or to wallpaper a room.

A typical loudspeaker found in headphones or an audio system uses electric current inputs that pass through a coil of wire that generates a magnetic field, which moves a speaker membrane, that moves the air above it, that makes the sound we hear. By contrast, the new loudspeaker simplifies the speaker design by using a thin film of a shaped piezoelectric material that moves when voltage is applied over it, which moves the air above it and generates sound.

Most thin-film loudspeakers are designed to be freestanding because the film must bend freely to produce sound. Mounting these loudspeakers onto a surface would impede the vibration and hamper their ability to generate sound.

To overcome this problem, the MIT team rethought the design of a thin-film loudspeaker. Rather than having the entire material vibrate, their design relies on tiny domes on a thin layer of piezoelectric material which each vibrate individually. These domes, each only a few hair-widths across, are surrounded by spacer layers on the top and bottom of the film that protect them from the mounting surface while still enabling them to vibrate freely. The same spacer layers protect the domes from abrasion and impact during day-to-day handling, enhancing the loudspeaker’s durability.

The domes are 15 microns in height, about one-sixth the thickness of a human hair, and they only move up and down about half a micron when they vibrate. Each dome is a single sound-generation unit, so it takes thousands of these tiny domes vibrating together to produce audible sound.

An added benefit of the team’s simple fabrication process is its tunability — the researchers can change the size of the holes in the PET to control the size of the domes. Domes with a larger radius displace more air and produce more sound, but larger domes also have lower resonance frequency. Resonance frequency is the frequency at which the device operates most efficiently, and lower resonance frequency leads to audio distortion.

Once the researchers perfected the fabrication technique, they tested several different dome sizes and piezoelectric layer thicknesses to arrive at an optimal combination.

They tested their thin-film loudspeaker by mounting it to a wall 30 centimeters from a microphone to measure the sound pressure level, recorded in decibels. When 25 volts of electricity were passed through the device at 1 kilohertz (a rate of 1,000 cycles per second), the speaker produced high-quality sound at conversational levels of 66 decibels. At 10 kilohertz, the sound pressure level increased to 86 decibels, about the same volume level as city traffic.

Mr. Mercury
Aug 13, 2021



Interesting concept, but needs a fair bit of work to not sound awful. +/- 10db isn't exactly consumer audio friendly

But the next revision will be interesting to watch!

Olympic Mathlete
Feb 25, 2011

:h:


25 volts to get 66dB at 1000hz is hilariously inefficient. That said, experimentation is good so I guess we'll see where this goes (probably nowhere).

qirex
Feb 15, 2001

I can't stop laughing, Klipsch boomered the ProMedias

trilobite terror
Oct 20, 2007
BUT MY LIVELIHOOD DEPENDS ON THE FORUMS!

qirex posted:

I can't stop laughing, Klipsch boomered the ProMedias


Heresy in the morning
Heresy in the evening
Heresy at supper time

when Heresys are on your desktop

you can have Heresy anytime

tater_salad
Sep 15, 2007


Those look a lot like the Advents that my parents had a long rear end time ago.

Qwijib0
Apr 10, 2007

Who needs on-field skills when you can dance like this?

Fun Shoe

qirex posted:

I can't stop laughing, Klipsch boomered the ProMedias


going to sell so many

trilobite terror
Oct 20, 2007
BUT MY LIVELIHOOD DEPENDS ON THE FORUMS!

Qwijib0 posted:

going to sell so many



https://youtu.be/PVjiKRfKpPI

njsykora
Jan 23, 2012

Robots confuse squirrels.


gently caress yeah Vinyl 2!

quote:

“An Ionic Original is the pinnacle of recorded sound,” Burnett said in a statement. “It is archival quality. It is future proof. It is one of one. Not only is an Ionic Original the equivalent of a painting, it is a painting. It is lacquer painted onto an aluminum disc, with a spiral etched into it by music. This painting, however, has the additional quality of containing that music, which can be heard by putting a stylus into the spiral and spinning it.”

“When describing the quality that raises analogue sound above digital sound, the word ‘warmth’ is often used,” Burnett continued. “Analogue sound has more depth, more harmonic complexity, more resonance, better imaging. Analogue has more feel, more character, more touch. Digital sound is frozen. Analogue sound is alive.”

YerDa Zabam
Aug 13, 2016



Lol, where's my bingo card?

Mister Kingdom
Dec 14, 2005

And the tears that fall
On the city wall
Will fade away
With the rays of morning light
Take that vinyl snobs!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=112oO3brDJo

qirex
Feb 15, 2001

I can't tell if I love or hate the new KEF LS60
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhnXGlYYaS0
I guess I like the idea and design but there's no way the electronics will still be useful 10 years from now, which for something that costs seven grand is a bit of an ask.

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007

They look awkward, and remind me way too much of the oversized single-driver speakers that some people seem to love.

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK
Sep 11, 2001



qirex posted:

I can't tell if I love or hate the new KEF LS60
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhnXGlYYaS0
I guess I like the idea and design but there's no way the electronics will still be useful 10 years from now, which for something that costs seven grand is a bit of an ask.

I think they look neat but 7 grand is steep.

I wonder how low their frequency response goes. I would hope that one of those pairs of woofers, if not both, are using the same force cancelling tech as their KC62 subwoofers.

Animale
Sep 30, 2009

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:

I think they look neat but 7 grand is steep.

I wonder how low their frequency response goes. I would hope that one of those pairs of woofers, if not both, are using the same force cancelling tech as their KC62 subwoofers.

What-Hifi has the frequency response as 26Hz - 36kHz on their review.

KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


So realistically 50Hz-20KHz, got it.

bird with big dick
Oct 21, 2015

qirex posted:

I can't tell if I love or hate the new KEF LS60
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhnXGlYYaS0
I guess I like the idea and design but there's no way the electronics will still be useful 10 years from now, which for something that costs seven grand is a bit of an ask.

It defeats part of the purpose but you could always just hook them to a receiver, right?

I'm not sure I've ever even heard a pair of KEFs. Maybe their little bookshelves at a BB. I appreciate the style and form factor but I'm more of a just get a speaker bar for your living room and then do your real media consumption with your enormous ugly speakers in your dark hole of a basement kinda guy.

Neurophonic
May 2, 2009

KozmoNaut posted:

So realistically 50Hz-20KHz, got it.

It’s stated as -3dB at 31Hz, -6dB at 26Hz, which fits with the displacement available from the four woofers and the overall cabinet volume. It’s ported at the bottom, which adds a boundary loading effect. I don’t see any reason to doubt the specs in this case.

I think it’s very interesting. You’re essentially getting a more refined version of the LS50 Meta with a pair of extended range KC62 subs in a Blade style arrangement. That’s per side. By that metric, the price of £6k a pair is pretty good - the separate smaller boxes to get the same driver count would come to £7.1k.

The slim column arrangement should give excellent cabinet edge diffraction behaviour in the horizontal pattern while being large enough in the vertical to push anomalies out of band for most of the mid and high frequency content coming from the frontal driver.

There’s also no reason the electronics should be a concern in the future. It’s just a class AB and class D amp module in each cabinet, with a front-end DSP. There are analogue inputs, so even if all of the streaming stuff dies in the next decade, I don’t see why they shouldn’t be functional.

KEF’s recent output has been very well engineered and the company has a good design ethos with their ‘reasonable priced’ stuff.

A friend got a chance to audition a prototype pair of the LS60 recently and said they’re competing with products costing four to five times as much. He’s no audiophile subjectivist idiot either.

KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


Neurophonic posted:

the price of £6k a pair is pretty good

Yeah, no.

quote:

they’re competing with products costing four to five times as much.

So way overpriced speakers competing with insanely overpriced speakers, got it.

Neurophonic
May 2, 2009

KozmoNaut posted:

Yeah, no.

So way overpriced speakers competing with insanely overpriced speakers, got it.

What makes you think it’s overpriced? A pair of LS50 Meta are £1100, that is not cheap but also is not insanely expensive.

Please don’t tell me you’re someone who only checks the component value & doesn’t account for the costs of actually doing proper R&D. Especially considering that the majority of salaries in audio engineering are quite low compared to other engineering disciplines.

If you assume there are 5 people in the product development division with a salary range of £30-70k per annum. They need three seats of MATLAB, COMSOL & SolidWorks, which is a fixed cost of approximately £35k each including a decent workstation to run the stuff. Add in a reasonably sized hemi-anechoic chamber or two for testing components and cabinets, a Klippel QC system, microphones and the like at £250k+ setup cost. We probably want a demo or auditioning room for subjective assessment, some workbenches, CNC plus ongoing premises outgoings like rent, electricity and so on.

We haven’t even touched the software or manufacture side of the business.

You don’t have to do it this way, of course. I am fully aware that you can get some truly excellent speakers for <£1000 a box, but those folk are often using off-the-shelf components and contractors for the design work, or able to use the economies of scale & facilities due to being part of an international conglomerate group.

Plus it is a business. It should make profit. Typical margins in audio products below the utterly insane stuff such as Magico & the proper ‘audiophile woo’ run from 20% to 40%, for what it’s worth.

Neurophonic fucked around with this message at 16:56 on May 14, 2022

njsykora
Jan 23, 2012

Robots confuse squirrels.


Whole lot of audiophile talk in the mocking audiophiles thread.

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KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


Neurophonic posted:

What makes you think it’s overpriced?

The £6k price tag.

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