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CoolCab posted:I've got a 3600 I wanna sell but I kind of like having a known working set of parts, and that will be my last non-current AM4 CPU. what's the cheapest secondhand option? its for a b450 so I think comparability should be good the cheapest CPU that'll run on AM4* would be the Athlon 200GE / 3000G you may want to be on the lookout also for a Ryzen 3 1200, 1400, or a Ryzen 5 1600 ("AF" variant or otherwise), as those should be way more firepower than an Athlon but potentially for only a little more __ * okay, technically there are some Bristol Ridge parts that will run on AM4, such as the A6-9400, the A10-9700, or the A12-9800, but these are 28nm process Bulldozer APU parts and wouldn't really be good
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Apr 25, 2022 07:55
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CoolCab posted:we have seen INSANELY heavy discounts in the past year, fwiw. I got 4x8 3600 cl 16 Ballistix ram for I think £93 after taxes a few months back and shipping and stuff, it was easily at least 150 a year ago. Ordinary DDR4 has gotten fairly cheap and may get even a little bit cheaper still, true. But the OP was talking about samsung b-die, and I doubt that's getting cheaper anytime soon. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 08:15 on Apr 25, 2022 |
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Apr 25, 2022 07:59
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Large amounts of DDR4 3200 unbuffered ECC is hard to find outside of odd alibaba sellers who operate from Japan and listings with maybe 1-2 sticks in stock on US Amazon. I might have to settle for 32gb, that project is already pretty  as-is.
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Apr 25, 2022 08:16
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gradenko_2000 posted:* okay, technically there are some Bristol Ridge parts that will run on AM4, such as the A6-9400, the A10-9700, or the A12-9800, but these are 28nm process Bulldozer APU parts and wouldn't really be good Yup, and most older AM4 boards have quietly dropped Bristol Ridge support unless you roll back to an old BIOS. And some newer boards may not have any support at all. Fun piece of obscura for collectors though!
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Apr 25, 2022 08:49
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https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amds-am5-platform-for-ryzen-7000-launches-with-ddr5-support-only-dual-chipset-design B650/X670 to be DDR5-only, according to TomsHardware. This is in line with other rumors about this shared earlier. So if you are planning on building a Zen 4 system, better budget for that pricey DDR5. The price of it has been falling and will continue to fall before the Zen 4 launch, but it's not gonna reach price parity with DDR4 until next year most likely. And I'm somewhat concerned about availability. If Zen 4 beats Intel handily, then as a DDR5-only platform, that's going to drive up demand to far higher levels than Alder Lake did.
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Apr 25, 2022 08:54
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Cygni posted:Fun piece of obscura for collectors though! oh totally - I tell myself one day I'm going to get caught-out without a GPU and without my Ryzen 2400G and the A12 is gonna step up to the plate and save my bacon
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Apr 25, 2022 09:12
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amds-am5-platform-for-ryzen-7000-launches-with-ddr5-support-only-dual-chipset-design
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Apr 25, 2022 09:30
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:Large amounts of DDR4 3200 unbuffered ECC is hard to find outside of odd alibaba sellers who operate from Japan and listings with maybe 1-2 sticks in stock on US Amazon. I might have to settle for 32gb, that project is already pretty You checked CDW? When I ordered 2x 16GB sticks of DDR4 3200 unbuffered ECC ($~90 each), they said there would be a backorder. They arrived at my house within two days of clicking "buy".
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Apr 25, 2022 14:05
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Let me rephrase - are we going to see better deals than this? https://www.microcenter.com/product...40c18u4bl-black
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Apr 25, 2022 14:43
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Phoronix have tested 5800x3d. They don't get much gain in the gaming they tested but a bunch of productivity did. https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd-5800x3d-linux&num=1 5900x still better overall except for some specific workloads. Eg in the openfoam cfd benchmark, 5800x3d is twice as fast as the 5800x, and slightly outperforms the extra four cores in the 5900x. Pablo Bluth fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Apr 25, 2022 |
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Apr 25, 2022 15:40
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Kibner posted:You checked CDW? When I ordered 2x 16GB sticks of DDR4 3200 unbuffered ECC ($~90 each), they said there would be a backorder. They arrived at my house within two days of clicking "buy". I guess I might as well order it from there since it'll take me more than 3 months to complete the build regardless.
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Apr 25, 2022 23:40
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hobbesmaster posted:Let me rephrase - are we going to see better deals than this? https://www.microcenter.com/product...40c18u4bl-black For what? That's not a kit you can run XMP on AMD and get good performance (clock is too high), so you're going to have to hand tune it (drop to probably 3600 and then tighten up timings as much as you can). And if you're doing that, will you be able to get better deals? Probably, but I'm not the expert.
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Apr 25, 2022 23:44
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K8.0 posted:For what? That's not a kit you can run XMP on AMD and get good performance (clock is too high), so you're going to have to hand tune it (drop to probably 3600 and then tighten up timings as much as you can). And if you're doing that, will you be able to get better deals? Probably, but I'm not the expert. Far more important to check an RAM against the MB makers compatibility list. This is now less of a thing vs the early days of 5 series AMD chipsets, but I still think it's underrated as something to pay attention to vs a lot of difficult to troubleshoot issues.
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Apr 26, 2022 00:07
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K8.0 posted:For what? That's not a kit you can run XMP on AMD and get good performance (clock is too high), so you're going to have to hand tune it (drop to probably 3600 and then tighten up timings as much as you can). And if you're doing that, will you be able to get better deals? Probably, but I'm not the expert. Well if Samsung B die is out then Micron rev E is the next best option despite its very high floors for tRCD and tRFC, no? And it’s on MSI’s compatibility list for my x570 at 4000, so is the 4400 variety. One would assume that’s 2:1 mode - they never say you’d have good latency, just that it’ll run!
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Apr 26, 2022 04:13
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5800x3d is back in stock amd.com I got one to replace my 3700x from Nov 2 2019 I don't expect magic gains but they'd be nice, especially in VR.
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Apr 28, 2022 18:26
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someone did an obscene number of gaming benchmarks comparing 5900X to 5800X3D. not only that, they went and tested the difference in performance with overclocked ram memory overclocking is supposedly easier on later generations, so maybe it's worth checking out here's the main thrust: 
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Apr 28, 2022 19:03
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As always, we should note that he (and many other reviewers) explicitly used settings and games that highlight the differences in the CPUs. That helps with relative performance expectations in the future, but may not be representative of performance today. At actual gaming settings with a 3080, like 1440p High, or with a slower GPU, you are unlikely to see that much scaling. Vs 5900X at 1440, it’s likely sub 10% right now. Whenever a new CPU comes out, I see the rush of people running out hoping for big gainz, and it’s kind of a bummer when it’s not the leap they thought because in reality, it’s still the GPU that matters more most of the time. So many of my friends rushed out and got 12700Ks with their old GPUs and were disappointed, ha.
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Apr 28, 2022 19:22
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The 1% lows even in realistic scenarios are really appealing, but they're not so good that I can't just hopefully wait for the same thing with Zen 4
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Apr 28, 2022 19:24
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Klyith posted:here's why you're wrong! Khorne fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Apr 28, 2022 |
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Apr 28, 2022 19:29
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Yeah, it really depends what sort of game you're playing. I've been doodling around a lot with X4 recently, and moving from a 5600X to 5800X3D bumped my FPS in a mid-game save from ~35 up to ~55. Meanwhile it did literally nothing for Elden Ring, which is capped at 60FPS so my 3080 isn't even bothering to clock all the way up most of the time.
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Apr 28, 2022 19:29
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The gains look really nice and if I had a Zen platform I wanted to extend the life of I’d be smashing refresh on MemoryExpress to try to get one. I’m still waiting to see what’s going to replace my 8700K though. Maybe the 7800X. It’s not really like I neeeeeed it since these days I’m mostly just playing League and a bit of Tarkov, but you know, moar coars and why not upgrade that dusty ol’ 1080Ti to a 3080Ti while we’re at it 
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Apr 28, 2022 19:38
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DDR5 only kind of sucks though, considering how expensive it is.
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Apr 28, 2022 20:12
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IIRC you need <CL24 (so, 22) DDR5-6400 to get to the point where the latency is actually lower than CL14 DDR4-3800. Food for thought when you see these dudes running CL46 to hit 5011mhz on LN2. It's not that DDR5 is bad, it's just that the DDR5 we have right now isn't all that great. The other guy who hit 5001 was running up at CL72 lmao. I think that works out to something like 3-4x slower than CL14@3800.
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Apr 28, 2022 20:30
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New Zealand can eat me posted:IIRC you need <CL24 (so, 22) DDR5-6400 to get to the point where the latency is actually lower than CL14 DDR4-3800. Food for thought when you see these dudes running CL46 to hit 5011mhz on LN2. 3800+ CL14 is pretty dang expensive (the only kits currently for sale are 4000) in 2x8 and basically non existent in 2x16 though. Its very nearly the best first word latency consumer ram ever put in a package for sale at ~7ns. Gskill put out a handful of DDR3 kits with sub 7ns latencies but they literally came with a fan in the box you had to clamp to the sticks to get those timings... not sure if those count, lol. The best consumer available DDR5 for first word latency, 6400 CL32, is at ~10ns at the moment and actually cheaper per gig than the 3800+ CL14 kits. I'm surprised how quickly they have ramped DDR5's timing honestly, so I don't think it will be too long before this transition is over. Probably by the time AM5 hits availability.
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Apr 28, 2022 21:07
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New Zealand can eat me posted:IIRC you need <CL24 (so, 22) DDR5-6400 to get to the point where the latency is actually lower than CL14 DDR4-3800. Food for thought when you see these dudes running CL46 to hit 5011mhz on LN2. You seem to be confusing megahertz with megatransfers. 5001MHz is DDR5-10002. At CL72, that's 2x slower when using CAS latency as the sole metric for speed, not 4x. At DDR5-10022 CL46, that's about 25% "slower." But CAS latency also isn't everything, and the DDR5-6400 CL32 sets on the market right now are demonstrably faster than DDR4-3600 CL14 in many games and applications despite the latency disadvantage (and most likely DDR4-3800 CL14 too, though I haven't seen that particular comparison)
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Apr 28, 2022 21:13
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Ah gently caress I knew I mixed something up Assuming Zen 4 benefits from reduced latency in the same ways the last 3 gens have, I'm sure we'll see more of a difference on this side of things. But I don't think we'll be seeing any Zen 4 DDR4 boards to make an equivalent comparison on New Zealand can eat me fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Apr 28, 2022 |
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Apr 28, 2022 21:14
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:You seem to be confusing megahertz with megatransfers. 5001MHz is DDR5-10002. At CL72, that's 2x slower when using CAS latency as the sole metric for speed, not 4x. At DDR5-10022 CL46, that's about 25% "slower." But CAS latency also isn't everything, and the DDR5-6400 CL32 sets on the market right now are demonstrably faster than DDR4-3600 CL14 in many games and applications despite the latency disadvantage (and most likely DDR4-3800 CL14 too, though I haven't seen that particular comparison) Even DDR4-3600 CL14 is a pretty high bar - IMO DR4-3600 CL16 is a sweet spot and achievable by most decent kits. What does that translate to? DDR5-7200 CL32? I venture you'd need DDR5-7000, maybe 6800 to hit that 100 GB/s bandwidth, which, for a dual channel system, is pretty baller. APUs hold on to your butts. It's not great if Zen 4 launch drags on but at the same time it will give DDR5 speeds to advance somewhat. Pricing though...maybe we are looking at the next frontier for scalping?
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Apr 28, 2022 21:32
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FWIW, even my DDR4 2x16GB ECC memory is stable at 3666 CL16. That seems to be a fairly easy benchmark to hit nowadays, if this kit is anything to go by.
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Apr 28, 2022 23:45
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Kibner posted:FWIW, even my DDR4 2x16GB ECC memory is stable at 3666 CL16. That seems to be a fairly easy benchmark to hit nowadays, if this kit is anything to go by. Indeed. If you're willing to do even a little manual tuning/testing, you can hit 3800@16 with a lot of reasonable quality (and price) kits. I've got a 2x16GB 3600@16 kit that runs just fine at 3800@16 (admittedly with a minor voltage bump to 1.38) and right now retails for about $180. Won't run a whole lot above that despite being on a X570 motherboard, but whatever. Good enough.
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Apr 29, 2022 01:20
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I got my two Crucial DDR4 LP 32GB sticks at 3600/16 with tightened subtimings & 1T command rate, on an Alder Lake CPU though. Getting it to 1T was more challenging and required more voltage than tightening the timings. Not 100% sure how important it was to overclock it, but by default it was 3600/18T with looser subtimings and 2T.
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Apr 29, 2022 01:41
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As someone who has spent too much time on Zen ram tuning, CL16 is relatively easy to hit even with garbage memory. Like Seamonster said, CL14 is where all the fun is at.
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Apr 29, 2022 02:50
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:You seem to be confusing megahertz with megatransfers. 5001MHz is DDR5-10002. Does anyone care? Seriously, I’ve been lightly made fun of as an embedded developer for actually saying megatransfers  (On paper is different, I guess a forum post is kind of a document)
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Apr 29, 2022 03:08
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hobbesmaster posted:Does anyone care? It doesn't matter as long as you understand the difference and are still doing the math and performance comparisons correctly, which the op wasn't. 5001 MHz DDR5 and DDR5-5001 are very different things.
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Apr 29, 2022 03:10
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Yeah no I was not awake when I wrote that  megatransfer my dilz into you're mouth
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Apr 29, 2022 05:55
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New Zealand can eat me posted:As someone who has spent too much time on Zen ram tuning, CL16 is relatively easy to hit even with garbage memory. Like Seamonster said, CL14 is where all the fun is at. If I had to choose, CL14 at 2T or CL16 at 1T?
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Apr 29, 2022 06:38
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Unless you're using some weird rear end memory or a lot of it, I'm not sure why you would settle for 2T if you're bothering with the effort to get to CL14. I sure as poo poo wouldn't waste my time trying to make that work, the subtimings line up a lot easier when they all divide into one another evenly (generalizing here, but many things are multiples of one another and the concept of tightening generally implies eliminating remainders where they would otherwise be valid, but slower). Throwing a number like 15 into the works gives you a lot less flexibility in what you can get away with, especially if you're chasing higher frequencies. E: Sorry, running in 2T adds one to most values because the signal is sent for two clock cycles instead of just one New Zealand can eat me fucked around with this message at 07:24 on Apr 29, 2022 |
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Apr 29, 2022 07:20
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I'm going to try to tune them more tomorrow and see what I can do. I honestly wasn't noticing dogshit performance in anything I was doing at the default settings, which were as mentioned CL18 and T2, but I'd like to tweak it to see if I can get CL14 out of these sticks at 3600MHz without going nuts with the voltage. I am using 64GB, however, if that's considered "a lot of it" maybe that has to do with their looser timings to start with. 
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Apr 29, 2022 07:40
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64 qualifies as a lot, neither 2x32 or 4x16 is ideal for chasing these kinds of things. It's definitely achievable but you're into the diminishing returns zone. Is this for an AMD processor? I see Alder Lake mentioned so I'm confused Either way, the best approach is an applied one, pick a workload or synthetic benchmark you want bigger numbers in and see what benefit you gain from the changes. On the Zen side of things, it's very likely you'd see better performance out of tightened CL18 T2 timings and instead increasing the frequency to get 1:1 with the infinity fabric, especially if you've got infinity fabric stable at 1900mhz (which would be 3800)
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Apr 29, 2022 07:48
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I have 32gbs of cl16 ddr4 at 3200mhz. I recently upgraded from zen+ to a 5900x with which I am able to get some stellar overclocks, but my ram won’t budge. Not even 33mhz. I was hoping to get the fclk and the ram lined up at 1800mhz but it doesn’t even want to meet halfway at 1700. It’s been a long time since I bothered to overclock ram, is there still a north bridge I gotta bribe with some juice to help me out?
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Apr 29, 2022 12:25
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I was going to buy a 5800X3D for my last AM4 upgrade but they retail for around 500€ here and right now the 5950X is on sale for 550€. Ordered that instead since I'm doing a lot of video encoding and can use the extra cores for VM's. Edit: Upgrading from a 2700X lost my retainer fucked around with this message at 13:12 on Apr 29, 2022 |
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Apr 29, 2022 12:55
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