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ThisIsJohnWayne posted:The russians used a ham sandwich
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Apr 28, 2022 00:42
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Hekk posted:One of those rounds will kill anyone within 50 meters of where it lands. If one hit at the 50 yard line of an American football field it could kill everyone on it and injure anyone in the stands. This. I saw some light work by artillery standards, and poo poo was terrifying. Rolling through what used to be a village, now slabs of rock, ribs of rebar, and black smears. And that wasn't full capability. It's horrifying, and cheap. What's the support to flight break down? For every hour of flight they require 50 hours of maintenance or something like that. Cannons? Not so much, and death still delivered from another zip code. What man can wrought with enough malice.
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Apr 28, 2022 00:58
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And even small artillery like infantry mortars can be horrific. I can attest that explosions from nowhere are loving terrifying.
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Apr 28, 2022 01:04
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The reports that came out of Crimea in 2014 talked about the change in thinking about armor and artillery. Light armor used to be thought of as generally as arty-resistant as tanks, and that just isn't true any more.
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Apr 28, 2022 01:04
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crossposting this here cuz I don't think I saw it in here yetCaptain Kosmos posted:TikTok squad fighting empty house or light post and barbeque(?)
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Apr 28, 2022 01:05
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Artillery has been known as the king of battle for the last several hundred years and that's not likely to change anytime soon. In the low-intensity GWOT dirt wars, we thought rolling a vehicle off a cliff was the scariest thing imaginable, but in a conventional setting like Ukraine I can't think of anything more terrifying than getting slammed by artillery coming out of left field. I remember the first time I played paintball.
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Apr 28, 2022 01:14
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BeastOfExmoor posted:Broad question from a clueless goon, but what does artillery accomplish in 2022 that isn't better accomplished by other weapons? Amount of fire that can be directed on an area? Cost to operate and ability to stockpile ammo? Another major advantage is the ability to operate at night and in all weather. You can't fly planes in white out blizzards, whereas you can fire shells no problem. Americans' reliance on air support has bit them when opponents attacked during bad weather. And the tiny cost also means persistence- the spotter can work the rounds right onto target until they hit, you're not limited to what the plane circling overhead can carry. And when you pair artillery with spotter drones or even drones doing laser designation for guided shells, artillery is a no-poo poo war-winning weapon. It's cutting edge technology and the US, for one, is sweating playing catch up after letting the capability wither for the last 20 years. Artillery is serious poo poo and how much of it you have, how good your crews and targeting are, and its range determines whether you win or lose a war. There's an expression "god fights on the side with the heaviest artillery"
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Apr 28, 2022 01:29
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I'll share with you guys the only time I was truly, deeply, Neanderthal fear in combat was watching rounds walk across the Euphrates towards me, knowing that I can't do gently caress all back to the fucks shooting at me. It's probably the most helpless I've ever felt, and that's a pretty significant feat in itself. Let me tell you, I have never looked harder for someone important to shoot before it got me. The FO directing the fire (I'm sure they were probably nothing more than 80ish MM mortars, but those plumes of water might as well have been Bismarck shells to my delicate flesh) bought it early, and the effective fire never really came back. Bulletsponge13 Helpful Combat Tip- Don't look important in combat. It gets your priority seating to your afterlife of choice.
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Apr 28, 2022 01:35
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Naked Bear posted:Artillery has been known as the king of battle for the last several hundred years and that's not likely to change anytime soon. In the low-intensity GWOT dirt wars, we thought rolling a vehicle off a cliff was the scariest thing imaginable, but in a conventional setting like Ukraine I can't think of anything more terrifying than getting slammed by artillery coming out of left field. One of the most sobering things I've seen in combat footage of Ukraine is drones being used to call in artillery. Imagine getting bombarded in the middle of the night with accurate artillery fire called in by a drone that you have no chance of seeing.
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Apr 28, 2022 01:36
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honestly jealous. Better than specialist dipshits wild rear end fire support guess because they didn't read the charts right.
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Apr 28, 2022 01:39
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bulletsponge13 posted:
Sniper check, sir! (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 28, 2022 01:49
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sneakyfrog posted:honestly jealous. Better than specialist dipshits wild rear end fire support guess because they didn't read the charts right. what happens if you read the table upside down?
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Apr 28, 2022 01:50
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Natty Ninefingers posted:what happens if you read the table upside down? That's only works south of the equator.
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Apr 28, 2022 01:51
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Natty Ninefingers posted:what happens if you read the table upside down? You shell yourself from the back.
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Apr 28, 2022 01:52
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Fire danger close I guess on the op? Not sure what the string pullers do really
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Apr 28, 2022 01:52
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bulletsponge13 posted:I'll share with you guys the only time I was truly, deeply, Neanderthal fear in combat was watching rounds walk across the Euphrates towards me, knowing that I can't do gently caress all back to the fucks shooting at me. It's probably the most helpless I've ever felt, and that's a pretty significant feat in itself. Idk if it was purposeful or not, but the building I was in got some flavor of indirect fire pointed at us, and the 2 shots (that we knew about) were set up like a perfect bracket. Looking down the valley we were in, those shots would’ve been far/left and close/right, and if he’d kept up his corrections our brigade TOC would’ve taken a direct hit in a few more rounds. All from some rear end in a top hat we never even saw. Probably shooting a smaller rocket or a mortar, too, nothing too big or wild (maybe a 107mm rocket?). 155mm rounds are terrifying with that context in mind. e: lucky or good doesn’t matter with artillery; if you’re close to where it landed, you’re vaporized.
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Apr 28, 2022 01:53
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Hekk posted:One of those rounds will kill anyone within 50 meters of where it lands. If one hit at the 50 yard line of an American football field it could kill everyone on it and injure anyone in the stands. This is a very evocative and helpful analogy
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Apr 28, 2022 02:19
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Modern artillery combined with real time drone video footage and modern satellite mapping is crazy scary.Plastic_Gargoyle posted:It also costs eleventy billion dollars per unit and will inevitably be canceled, I'm sure So just like Tom Brady Taerkar fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Apr 28, 2022 |
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Apr 28, 2022 02:30
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Shell artillery is one of the few weapons systems that are cheaper than a building it can destroy.
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Apr 28, 2022 02:48
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A good mortar team can be downright scary. In '09 Afghanistan we were building a COP out in the middle of an area that was contested. Taliban were known for setting up check points and harassing people on their way in and out of the local villages so we were wanted to have a presence out there. On one of the first days we were out there building the base we would take 2-3 incoming mortars then the team would move, shoot a couple more, move and repeat. From my understanding you can get a direction for the point of origin (yes it's called POO) based on how the round landed and by the time FOs got an idea (by looking at where the round landed) that mortar team was somewhere else. Thankfully their bursts didn't hurt anyone but rounds were landing in the perimeter. They would adjust off that first round and had they sat in one spot long enough they could have hosed us up, we weren't leaving. Eventually we got an Apache on station and that scared them off.
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Apr 28, 2022 03:04
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Wrong Theory posted:A good mortar team can be downright scary. I was essentially a fobbit in OIF2, but on a base large enough and close enough to population (Baqubah) that we got mortared daily. We got very blase about it; they essentially chucked a few rounds randomly every day at our (mostly empty) base. You got fatalistic; it either hit you or it didn't. Then one night on guard duty, the tower next to me (really, about 1/4 mile away) started getting rounds walked in on it just before dusk. I saw each flash, and heard the increasingly scared broadcasts of the two dudes in the tower (they were 20 ft high concrete towers left over from Saddam's days in charge) as they called out charges that were getting closer and closer. The last one was about 100 yards short. Then about 10 seconds of silence. Then a round went a few hundred yards long. Then more came, but closer and closer. By this point, dude had lost it on the radio, screaming about how he was being bracketed. After about 2=3 rounds getting closer, the last one hit about 30 yards long. Let me tell you, I have never experienced an agonizing wait like I did for that next round that I knew was coming, and I wasn't even the guy in the crosshairs. I was just the guy that knew he was about to see 2 people die. So yeah. The difference between Johnny Jerkoff and a real mortar team was apparent then even to my signal corps fobbit rear end from that one example. They were just one round short.
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Apr 28, 2022 03:19
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GD_American posted:So yeah. The difference between Johnny Jerkoff and a real mortar team was apparent then even to my signal corps fobbit rear end from that one example. They were just one round short.
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Apr 28, 2022 04:13
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GD_American posted:I was essentially a fobbit in OIF2, but on a base large enough and close enough to population (Baqubah) that we got mortared daily. We got very blase about it; they essentially chucked a few rounds randomly every day at our (mostly empty) base. You got fatalistic; it either hit you or it didn't. You just reminded me of the first time I was bracketed. Similar situation even. The psychological aspect of artillery is insane. 80% of my stress was due to the prospect of a rocket or mortar just randomly landing on me. I've had a mortar land on the opposite side of a T wall I was next to. That constant worry turns into apathy. Those conscripts are going to hate their lives.
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Apr 28, 2022 04:30
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I appreciate the enlightening responses with regards to artillery. My familiarity with is mostly from the WW1/WW2 context where it was used on a huge scale to bombard dug in soldiers so I just wasn't sure how pertinent it was for modern wars that have typically had a lot less of that. A lot of really good points to be had. I was not at all aware that the range was anything like what is apparently possible.
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Apr 28, 2022 04:35
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A lot of the reason why it is so effective at slaughtering people is also the first salvo coming out of loving nowhere. Receiving end of the line of fire: Don't click this if it is gonna bring up bad memories and mess up your day https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUvcdKGD-FM
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Apr 28, 2022 05:54
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ASAPI posted:You just reminded me of the first time I was bracketed. Similar situation even. I still can't watch the videos of Ukrainians getting rocketed/mortared with the sound on. poo poo still makes me tense up 8 years later.
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Apr 28, 2022 06:48
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It's interesting that the war in Ukraine is playing out a lot like the Stryker brigade experience of training for a peer to peer fight at one of the combat training centers. As scouts we had optics up to our eyeballs that can see much further than any direct fire weapon system, easily 90% of our engagements came down to our own and OPFOR scouts calling in indirect fire on each other. A huge emphasis was put on being able to quickly process and execute IDF missions. Between our optics and organic UAS we had quite a few ways to gain observation of any potential targets. Though of course that also depends on being in terrain that allows you to see that far. While javelins were effective when we used them most of the time we saw vehicles they were well outside of the javelins max effective range. Being in javelin range also meant you were probably within direct fire range of whatever you're shooting at. I was always curious about how true to life our training for a peer to peer fight actually was so I guess it's sort of comforting that the folks responsible for determining how we train on weren't too far off the mark.
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Apr 28, 2022 06:51
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A.o.D. posted:Nothing likes a direct hit, otherwise it depends a lot on the size of the artillery. Generally, a tank can survive well within the kill zone of most artillery shells. With that said, if you're in a tank and Artie is dropping all around you, it's time to displace, not hunker down. Based upon the footage coming out of the east, whatever artillery the Ukrainians are using is enough to score a mobility kill on T-72s/T-80s. Which is basically just as good as scoring a party popper.
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Apr 28, 2022 08:07
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Icon Of Sin posted:e: lucky or good doesn’t matter with artillery; if you’re close to where it landed, you’re vaporized. If you're LUCKY. If you're unlucky you end up a blown up pair of rear end cheeks on twitter. Being a soldier sucks, but being a soldier in 2022 is somehow worse. SerthVarnee posted:A lot of the reason why it is so effective at slaughtering people is also the first salvo coming out of loving nowhere. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a technique on some guns where you can use different charges/firing arcs so multiple shots from one gun land at the same time? So you've got a battery of 6 guns, but they fire on 3 different arcs, so instead of a spot eating 6 shells at once, they eat 18? Carth Dookie fucked around with this message at 09:20 on Apr 28, 2022 |
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Apr 28, 2022 09:17
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edit: sorry for the double
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Apr 28, 2022 09:19
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Carth Dookie posted:Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a technique on some guns where you can use different charges/firing arcs so multiple shots from one gun land at the same time? So you've got a battery of 6 guns, but they fire on 3 different arcs, so instead of a spot eating 6 shells at once, they eat 18? Yes, Time on Target.
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Apr 28, 2022 09:24
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Yep that's it. What nasty creatures we are.
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Apr 28, 2022 09:26
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Mustang posted:I was always curious about how true to life our training for a peer to peer fight actually was so I guess it's sort of comforting that the folks responsible for determining how we train on weren't too far off the mark. Yeah the core idea behind maneuver warfare is to fix the enemy in place and then destroy them with artillery or aircraft. It's surprising how the technologies from World War II have changed (although really not THAT much relative to the rest of the history of warfare), but the basic strategies and tactics have not. psydude fucked around with this message at 09:34 on Apr 28, 2022 |
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Apr 28, 2022 09:31
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I've got a couple of videos of me in a challenger 2 while we did the inoculation of fire demo from 105 light gun closest round drops about 50 m, you feel the percussion but it sounds like a hollow knock inside a tank, greatest danger is to optics for tanks from 105/155 artillery
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Apr 28, 2022 10:56
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SerthVarnee posted:A lot of the reason why it is so effective at slaughtering people is also the first salvo coming out of loving nowhere. Those pings and pew pews you're hearing are shell fragments and debris ricocheting off of solid objects. Those can rip you to shreds from dozens of meters away, even if you're safely outside of the immediate blast zone.
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Apr 28, 2022 11:39
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Yeah, part of that excercise was testing various forms of easily assembled shelters against artillery, the various shacks etc that can be seen on the background.
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Apr 28, 2022 11:56
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Looking forward to every arty team including a spotter drone operator. Walk your own fire on target in real time from eleventy billion miles away.
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Apr 28, 2022 12:14
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bird food bathtub posted:Looking forward to every arty team including a spotter drone operator. Walk your own fire on target in real time from eleventy billion miles away. Maybe not every team, but certainly every battery. Every forward observer team definitely needs the capability.
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Apr 28, 2022 12:23
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Taerkar posted:
Those gun trailer tires are under inflated!
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Apr 28, 2022 12:31
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psydude posted:Yeah the core idea behind maneuver warfare is to fix the enemy in place and then destroy them with artillery or aircraft. One of the FMs put this in an interesting way, it said something along the lines of using combined arms to create dilemmas - give them multiple problems where the solution to each problem exposes them to another one. So for example the infantry forces them into cover and then the artillery destroys the cover. The enemy can't stay there without getting blown up but they can't get up and run away without getting shot. Using that along with attacking their command and control (such as jamming their comms) reduces their ability to solve the dilemma by making it difficult or impossible to coordinate outside support.
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Apr 28, 2022 12:40
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