Battletech: Clan Wolf is "Licensed to il"

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Defiance Industries: Jul 22, 2010; A five-star manufacturer

A ton of ammo has a set BV, so yes. 8 shots of GR ammo is 40 BV, 16 shots is 80 and so on.

# ? Apr 29, 2022 00:47

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# ? May 29, 2024 10:39

Breetai: Nov 6, 2005; 🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌

Strobe posted:

There are some things that are consistently good, but they tend to be good because they're "bad" in ways where they still contribute and the things that make them "bad" are mostly tonnage. Ultra AC/5s are my favorite example of this, because they're one of the most consistently unpopular guns to any BattleTech fan you could ask, but anything with one or two if them backing up some more efficient guns are dirt cheap and absolutely vicious for the cost.

Nova Cat C, Vulture Mk III A, Thor II Prime, Shadow Hawk 5M, Sentinel 6S, all very good.

Iirc pretty much the only real niche use case for them was back before the VTOL rotor rules were changed to nerf incoming damage so that a single 5-point damage cluster wouldn't kill it, because then you had a weapon with an additional touch of death chance.

Come to think of it, was there any period when a 5-point hit was an immediate rotor kill and RAC-5s were available? That would have been a great time to be a flyboy.

# ? Apr 29, 2022 00:49

Defiance Industries: Jul 22, 2010; A five-star manufacturer

The rotor change was TW and RACs are from FM:FS so there's like a five year gap in there. Both they and the UAC were still held back by not getting the flak bonus though.

# ? Apr 29, 2022 00:51

Strobe: Jun 30, 2014; GW BRAINWORMS CREW

Breetai posted:

Iirc pretty much the only real niche use case for them was back before the VTOL rotor rules were changed to nerf incoming damage so that a single 5-point damage cluster wouldn't kill it, because then you had a weapon with an additional touch of death chance.

Come to think of it, was there any period when a 5-point hit was an immediate rotor kill and RAC-5s were available? That would have been a great time to be a flyboy.

This is what makes this such a fun comparison, because in terms of BV (particularly BV2) Ultra AC/5s are one of the best weapons in the game and nobody realizes it because the BattleTech community at large has been trying to build the most capable individual game piece possible for 40 years (or abusing their opponents with Savannah Masters and infantry).

# ? Apr 29, 2022 01:01

Breetai: Nov 6, 2005; 🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌

Defiance Industries posted:

The rotor change was TW and RACs are from FM:FS so there's like a five year gap in there. Both they and the UAC were still held back by not getting the flak bonus though.

Cheers for that!

Strobe posted:

This is what makes this such a fun comparison, because in terms of BV (particularly BV2) Ultra AC/5s are one of the best weapons in the game and nobody realizes it because the BattleTech community at large has been trying to build the most capable individual game piece possible for 40 years (or abusing their opponents with Savannah Masters and infantry).

I'm a fan of the AC/5 paradox when fielding intro tech: it's a butt weapon that is tonnage/damage inefficient even for a long range weapon and you're almost always better off fielding as few units as possible that carry one, but if you DO have some in your force you'd better make sure you're stocked with a preposterous amount of ammo reloads because the heat to damage ratio is so good that there's basically no scenario where you shouldn't be firing it every round that you have a to-hit of 12 or lower on any available target.

# ? Apr 29, 2022 02:18

Strobe: Jun 30, 2014; GW BRAINWORMS CREW

Outside of meeting a reasonable threshold of minimum performance, tonnage efficiency is bad for cost efficiency but this is a concept fundamentally irreconcilable with the (incorrect) definition of "optimized" that is instilled in BattleTech fans at birth.

# ? Apr 29, 2022 02:24

Breetai: Nov 6, 2005; 🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌

Strobe posted:

Outside of meeting a reasonable threshold of minimum performance, tonnage efficiency is bad for cost efficiency but this is a concept fundamentally irreconcilable with the (incorrect) definition of "optimized" that is instilled in BattleTech fans at birth.

My 100 ton clantech mech with 3 gauss rifles, 2 PPCs, and the heatsinks to fire them constantly (which every Battletech player has independently designed at one point or another) would like to take umbrage with that remark.

Just let me resolve this PSR from taking a Locust kick first. I'll be a sec, as I haven't used the rules for fighting in a vacuum for the longest time and I need to check the compendium.

# ? Apr 29, 2022 02:33

Defiance Industries: Jul 22, 2010; A five-star manufacturer

Breetai posted:

(which every Battletech player has independently designed at one point or another)

I call this the "hideous teenager" phase of being a BT player. You think you know it all because you figured out how to optimize a machine, but you haven't learned enough to realize we've all figured out how to optimize this game, we're just bored by it now.

# ? Apr 29, 2022 02:36

Dr. Lunchables: Dec 27, 2012; IRL DEBUFFED KOBOLD

Alpha Strike specifically weights PV and damage on firing all weapons that use the ammo every turn for five turns. Adding more ammo (beyond the five turns) does not add more PV, though having less makes the mech less dangerous, lowering both damage and PV.

I didn�t word my original question very well, but it was fumbling toward this idea.

It�s more a nature of these things being very different games though.

# ? Apr 29, 2022 02:38

Xotl: May 28, 2001; Be seeing you.

I hope to revise BV at some point to match the AS concept of ammo. The idea of being charged for a gun and then ammo separate on top of that leads to some wonky results in units that either have a lots of ammo, or very little of it.

# ? Apr 29, 2022 02:48

Breetai: Nov 6, 2005; 🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌

Defiance Industries posted:

I call this the "hideous teenager" phase of being a BT player. You think you know it all because you figured out how to optimize a machine, but you haven't learned enough to realize we've all figured out how to optimize this game, we're just bored by it now.

Oh please, bask in the glory of the first mech I ever designed, on graph paper no less, back in like 1994 the day I got the compendium.

XL engine, endo steel and Ferro armour, naturally. Please pay attention to the hilariously incorrect ranges on the "small ER lasers", the pilot, and basically everything. How many poo poo decisions can you find?

# ? Apr 29, 2022 02:57

Strobe: Jun 30, 2014; GW BRAINWORMS CREW

Breetai posted:

My 100 ton clantech mech with 3 gauss rifles, 2 PPCs, and the heatsinks to fire them constantly (which every Battletech player has independently designed at one point or another) would like to take umbrage with that remark.

Just let me resolve this PSR from taking a Locust kick first. I'll be a sec, as I haven't used the rules for fighting in a vacuum for the longest time and I need to check the compendium.

Defiance Industries posted:

I call this the "hideous teenager" phase of being a BT player. You think you know it all because you figured out how to optimize a machine, but you haven't learned enough to realize we've all figured out how to optimize this game, we're just bored by it now.

There is an additional step past this, where one realizes that "long range headcap firepower" is only one kind of optimizing, and it being boring has very little to do with being optimized and far more to do with the intended outcome being boring as poo poo.

The Exterminator EXT-7X is magnificently optimized and is simultaneously a coked-out carnival ride with no brakes. :allears:

# ? Apr 29, 2022 03:11

Contingency: Jun 2, 2007; MURDERER

I looked through the Alpha Strike handbook and I think I can pull off a simplified rules set. I host a annual tournament for family and am considering adding a tabletop game this year. Would a 6' by 4' map be enough room for 4 teams of 12-15 mechs each?

# ? Apr 29, 2022 03:15

Strobe: Jun 30, 2014; GW BRAINWORMS CREW

It would be tight but not uncomfortably cramped. 6' x 4' is what we played on locally with 400-600 PV games most regularly, and up to 1250 a couple times. You can make it work, just know that if that's a free-for-all that you're going to have mechs in medium range literally as they're deploying.

# ? Apr 29, 2022 03:18

hot cocoa on the couch: Dec 8, 2009

Contingency posted:

I looked through the Alpha Strike handbook and I think I can pull off a simplified rules set. I host a annual tournament for family and am considering adding a tabletop game this year. Would a 6' by 4' map be enough room for 4 teams of 12-15 mechs each?

wow, pics if you do this please! i want to try alpha strike at some point but the loss of fidelity is a tough sell for some of the other players in my group atm. maybe once we get some CBT games under our belt i can convince them to play AS as a "big battle" version. we're having another game monday with a 3rd player, i'm making more terrain and maybe some objective markers as fast as i can before then

# ? Apr 29, 2022 03:49

Contingency: Jun 2, 2007; MURDERER

Strobe posted:

It would be tight but not uncomfortably cramped. 6' x 4' is what we played on locally with 400-600 PV games most regularly, and up to 1250 a couple times. You can make it work, just know that if that's a free-for-all that you're going to have mechs in medium range literally as they're deploying.

Thanks! The scenario I'm hashing out has two teams of 440 PV each deploying on one short map edge with the objective of getting to a dropship on the far edge, with the 2 OPFOR teams of 360-400 PV each deploying in the map center/center of long edges to stop them. That's a lot of action crammed in half the map. I've got an example roster for the dropship-bound teams but not OPFOR--once I have that I can work out average killiness. I'm targeting no higher than 20% force loss per turn to allow for successful breakthroughs. If I can't pull that off with skill 4 SW-era units, I've got a few tricks to make things easier for the runners.

So the sweetspot for 40k is 25% of the game board is LoS blocking terrain. For your games of Alpha Strike, how much terrain is typical for a battle not on Planet Bowling Ball?

e: PV not PL

Contingency fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Apr 29, 2022

# ? Apr 29, 2022 04:01

PoptartsNinja: May 9, 2008; He is still almost definitely not a spy; Soiled Meat

BattleTech and Alpha Strike like having lots of small patches of cover, so there's a mix of open sight lines for long range units and cover for brawlers and juggernauts to take advantage of; but not so much cover that you can park an entire force in one spot and mass fire.

# ? Apr 29, 2022 04:27

Strobe: Jun 30, 2014; GW BRAINWORMS CREW

quote:

Recognition Guide: IlClan Volume 2:

UrbanMech UM-R93: Lol. Lmao. I normally do not like UrbanMechs, because I find the meme of them tiresome at best. Hardened Armor UrbanMechs are actually, genuinely funny though, and this one delivers. It's durable, faster than it by all rights should be while having a ground movement of 2/2, and it picks the correct main gun in a Snub-Nose PPC so it can trade on good numbers even at its abysmal speed by exploiting a very long short range bracket. This is about as good as you can make an UrbanMech. 852 BV for this is a good laugh because it takes a lot more than that to put out of commission in a timely manner. B

Ostscout OTT-7K: This Ostscout is not a new one, and it is so incredibly specialized with a TAG and nothing else that I don't think I ever actually want to use one. Sure it's very good if you're taking Semi-Guided LRMs or are bringing homing artillery at only 484 BV, but there is such a thing as being too specialized. This is one of those cases. Very useful in a campaign setting or in a constructed larger battle, but absolutely useless to a game that I'm likely to play. D

Ostscout OTT-8J: This is actually I think the pinnacle of Ostscout design to date. It is still the same speed, it now has actually good amounts of armor, it has an electronics suite that leaves every Ostscout before it in the dirt, and it has a very accurate gun that can contribute at ranges you're going to find yourself while retaining good numbers. At 894 BV it's a very good utility or tech piece against an opponent who enjoys C3 or hidden units. Angel ECM turns off a lot of good stuff, too. It's still a little bit specialized for my taste, but that's just taste at this point. B-

Ostscout OTT-12R: This 'Mech is too expensive. Yes, it has a Clan ER Large on it. Yes, it jumps 8. Yes, it has Stealth Armor. No, it can't do all of those things at once. No, it won't accomplish anything of consequence in a real-life timeframe measured in hours. It's 1209 BV for the privilege of bringing a single Clan ER Large Laser that will never be shot at and also will probably never hit anything. You would get more use for your BV by picking a random Clan Heavy and ripping out four heatsinks for an ER Large. Yes, that would be a bad 'Mech. It would still be better for your gameplan than taking one of these. This is where I quote Jeff Goldblum in Jurassic Park about being more concerned with could than should. It is a phenomenally optimized masterpiece if your goal is to play a 1250 BV game over the next three days and never take damage. This 'Mech is getting this rating only because I'm going to be deliberately choosing not to play in any games where it might make an appearance. F

Grendel F: I like this 'Mech. *checks pricetag.* I like this 'Mech if it's 500 BV cheaper. At 1997 I simply can't pick a 'Mech that in a 'Mech-on-'Mech combat has a single ATM-6 to do damage, and not enough ammo to actually kill anything you want it to kill. If the Ostscout 12R is too hyper-specialized into dueling one 'Mech forever, then this Grendel is too hyper-specialized into being the kind of team-player where the team is mandatory and not merely an improvement. I like Plasma Cannons a lot more than I'm letting on here, I promise, but I don't like amputating a 'Mech's ability to do damage by putting them on here. D

Grendel G: Now this? This I like. The Grendel G takes all the problems with the F and chucks them immediately into a dumpster. No more ammo, and with four Medium Pulse Lasers and five Micro Pulse Lasers it both does enough damage and does so in very accurate fashion that it will blow an opposing 'Mech to pieces the first time you win initiative and force the unpleasant choice between letting you jump 7 into a rear arc or run 14 into a rear arc but maybe the terrain is a bit better to be eviscerated by pulse lasers in. Can run a bit toasty, but if you're running it's cool and if you're jumping it only gets toasty enough that you try to disengage like you should instead of crippling you. Also have a Watchdog, for giggles. The BV is fairly high at 2209 but it's the kind of 'Mech that can go headhunting Assaults that aren't being careful enough and I respect that. B+

Grendel I: The only thing stopping this from being an F is that I like Plasma Rifles a lot. Seriously, that is the only reason. The Plasma Rifle doesn't have enough ammo, there's a Protomech AC/4 on this thing that I wish didn't exist, and the only gun that can actually contribute outside of that is a single Medium Laser. The Grendel C is in a similar predicament among older configs, and having faced one of those before, once the ammo is gone (and the ammo will be gone) there are Mist Lynxes more dangerous than this. At 600 BV that would be fine. At 1675 BV it's unacceptable. D-

Grendel J: I respect 'Mechs where the primary goal is obvious but it functions well in a direct combat role regardless. The Grendel J is one of those. Three Streak SRM-6s is a lot of hits, and it will absolutely murder an armored company while also finishing off damaged 'Mechs with internals showing. It will also comfortably make sure those 'Mechs know that they've been hit if it runs into a pristine one. The lasers are secondary here and extra punch when you line up an excellent turn, but the missiles steal the show and are functional at the ranges you want them to be at. Streaks help guarantee heat efficiency and that you're not wasting limited damage potential on nothing, which is useful for something that probably wants to be jumping a lot. The BV at 1811 means I am probably not using it super often, but it's definitely useable and I like the intent. C+

Grendel M: Everything I said about the Grendel J up above? The M isn't it. It's more akin to the Ostscout 12R, in the sense that it's very long range and it's going to do exactly nothing with its long ranged guns unless you're close enough that any other Grendel would have been a better choice. Clan RAC/2s are better than Inner Sphere ones, but the triple-ER-SRM-6 is not something that I think is actually a good weapon. If both weapons hit it's still going to struggle to force a PSR. The complete lack of minimum ranges means that it can play more aggressively at 8 hexes or closer, but at that point why not just take a G? Somewhat amusingly, the RAC/2 is also short on ammo and is not going to be able to adequately follow up on open holes unless you're playing a much larger game where I'd again probably just take a G instead. Not great. D

Grendel T: The T configs are a mixed bag, it turns out following the design of the original Prime configs can sometimes lead to really bizarre groups of weapons on the same 'Mech. I think the Grendel T does okay for itself with the Grendel's limited podspace. A Clan LPL being the star of the show certainly helps. Nothing else is as accurate, but it's also the highest damage Grendel so far. At 1936 BV it's definitely usable. Heat can definitely be a problem on this one, though. I don't dislike it, and the T will sometimes make an appearance in a force I'm building because the WYSIWYG actually appeals to me. This rating would probably be higher if the Grendel G didn't exist. C+

Bushwacker BSW-X4: I love Plasma Rifles, have I mentioned that? MMLs I'm less sold on, thinking ATMs are just better, but they have a niche and I think this is a reasonable place for that niche to shine. Multiple MML-5s can fool a player into thinking that this is a long range sniper, but it isn't. They're primarily useful to make sure you're not unable to return fire at range, but they shine spewing SRMs in all directions up close. The ER Large I could take or leave. I think I'd have rather had a second Plasma Rifle than the MASC if that math works out at all. It might not, but the MASC is what I have the most to say about anyway. Anything that takes a 5/8 'Mech to 5/8[10] is a horrible idea in the world of BV. Having to pay for the +4 TMM but not get any of the benefits unless you find a perfect 10 hex straight line, at which point you've telegraphed your next move more obviously than any other movement profile I can think of, including a 2/3 with no jump jets, is a losing proposition. This is the second 'Mech we've seen make this mistake in the series, and don't worry there will be a lot more of them. If there's a single theme to the RecGuide variants and configs that shines through more than any other, it's putting on equipment that makes the 'Mech a more effective individual combatant but also absolutely torpedoes its BV in a way that makes most of them unusable in a balanced game. The Bushwacker avoids that ignominious distinction by staying relatively okay but still bad at 1751 BV, though honestly I'd probably rather play without the MASC and however many tons that is underweight if it got the BV materially closer to 1500. I would rather play a different Bushwacker than either of those options, though. D+

Sojourner Prime: Weird movement profile time: 4/6[8]/3. I don't hate this, because you do get a bit of a BV reprieve from not having the fourth jump jet, and the Supercharger taking you to 8 MP is a good choice because it not only gets you the achievable +3 TMM, you also have a spare MP to turn to line that up. 'Mechs with 8 run MP are generally pretty solid. On the Prime in particular, Gauss plus AES is good but headcappers with -1 are also expensive. This is a necessary trade-off, of course, and one that I don't judge too harshly. What I do judge harshly is one ton of Plasma Cannon ammo. There's no way to fit it in that I can tell, but at that point just put on a second ER Large or something. Maybe that wasn't done for heat reasons, which would actually be a consideration that I share in that case. The Prime is a frustrating case of feeling like it's almost there for its BV of 2491. I don't think that I would willingly seek it out, especially compared to at least one follow up config, but it's fine. C

Sojourner A: On a Clan Heavy, a RAC/2 and a PAC/8 on the same 'Mech. Garbage. There's a Large Pulse Laser in the AES arm and it fails to redeem this config. Four ER Micro Lasers would genuinely be better as a single ER Medium laser, so this config is really just a story about how trash guns and low BV doesn't save a 'Mech if the guns are bad enough that the BV savings can't be leveraged into an effective unit. Paying 1911 BV for this is something that I would normally be all over for a Clan Heavy with a standard engine that's fast enough, but I will not be using a 'Mech with weapons that are that bad. F

Sojourner B: Ah, much better. ER Large Pulse Lasers are something that appeal to me normally, because playing the range game with effective movement is something I like doing and think I do well. Being able to patiently outduel even Large Pulse Lasers feels pretty good. Putting them in the AES arm is even better, and this thing feels like it might as well have been built to hunt Clan LPL boats. I like it. ECM makes an appearance for some reason, and there's an extra Streak SRM 6 on here that I might use sometimes. There's also a fourth jump jet, which I feel like is very useful to finely adjusting range, but could also have been left off comfortably for the BV savings. It's not cheap at 2397, but I think it mostly lives up to that and is fun tech to punk a much more expensive Clan LPL boat. I genuinely like this config, and if I'm ever using a Sojourner it will be this one. B

Sojourner C: This one is also good. No jump jets, and the AES arm has a Heavy Large Laser in it. I'd prefer an Improved Heavy, but this is fine. Two LRM 20s is functional and they have more than enough ammo. This feels like a config where the designer stopped loving around with specialized gimmicks and instead built a functional and intelligent config. I approve. BV is 2235, which is also palatable for what it brings. Good showing. B-

Sojourner D: I like Ultra AC/10s. They are one of my favorite guns. Here one is on the AES arm, along with an ER PPC. That's a very, very expensive arm. It's also a good one. Two Medium Pulse Lasers round out the left arm. This 'Mech is very vulnerable to losing side-torsos. Or, rather, when it loses one it tends to be completely out of the fight instead of merely probably out of the fight. It's a decent config, and saved from being ruinously expensive by not including jump jets. I like it but with the B and C available I don't think I'd ever pick it first. BV is 2452, which is part of the reason there. C+

Zeus ZEU-11S: I like to call this the "King Zeus" because it's a king among its variants. Gauss Rifle, Clan LRM-15 with Artemis IV, Clan ER Medium Lasers, Clan ER Large Laser, Active Probe. There's enough ammo here for both gauss and LRM to keep firing all day long. The heat curve is perfect. The armor is excellent. It has a Compact Gyro and a Clan XL engine. The BV is a steal at 2280 for what is effectively a low end Clan Assault with all of the fixings. The competition is over, we can stop designing new Zeus variants now, this one won. S

Stone Rhino (Behemoth): I'll be honest, I don't like this 'Mech. 3/5/3 is slower than I'm a fan of, and paired Gauss and LPLs is effective but boring. There's a lot of community love for this 'Mech and I just... don't. The BV at 2971 is probably fine for a very well armored 100 tonner with good guns. Yawn. D

Stone Rhino (Behemoth) 4: lmao hold on, nevermind. Multiple Ultra AC/10s, quad LRM 10s for some reason, and a bucket of machine guns. Single heat sinks. This thing rips. It's bad at 2601 BV but it's bad with balls. Look at those side torsos, this thing is a bomb waiting to happen. It can't fire all of its LRM 10s at a run without overheating and you bet your rear end I'm about to add 30 more heat to that scale. Major points for being the coked out monster truck of Behemoths. I'm still not using it. D

~~Malice MAL-XT~~ Stone Rhino (Behemoth) 5: I was prepared to write a joke review of the Malice XT here because look at it, it's the same thing. The only difference I think is some of the weirder stuff on a Malice is gone and instead there are two more ER Mediums. Not quite enough heat sinks to comfortably use all those ER Mediums, but they'll hurt. At 2157 BV it's actually usable, and it might sneak into a couple of lists. The best Behemoth by far, out of the three. C

Stone Rhino (Behemoth) 6: The movement profile on this thing is bizarre at 4/6/2 and I feel like there has to be some weird aerospace rules interaction here because otherwise it doesn't make any sense to not either 1) spend the extra 2 tons on a second jump jet or 2) not spend 2 tons to get to 3. Something tells me I am not going to be meaningfully upset with having "only" 13 Medium Pulse Lasers instead of 14. Which, let me tell you, that poo poo's hilarious. I'd rather they all be in the arms, and there's not enough heat sinks to really let loose, and at 2981 it's way too expensive to be serious. It will absolutely take someone off-guard if you corner them at blasting range, but that's harder to do than it looks when you have a 100 ton murder machine walking most of the way to do it. This feels like a meme, and one that I appreciate, but a meme all the same. C

Stone Rhino (Behemoth) 7: I was about two seconds away from making a comment about being a Supernova variant about the 6, and then the 7 happened and suddenly that comment wasn't a joke. This is Enough large lasers of various stripes. It might even be worth the price tag of 2916, but I'm not particularly likely to use it in a world where the Supernova 5 exists (stay tuned for that one to show up later in the series). This one is back to 3/5/3 and better for it. This is the first one likely to show up in a force I'm building that's actually trying to be a real force. C+

Stone Rhino (Behemoth) 8: Finally, some innovation. Large Pulse Lasers in AES arms is good, Gauss Rifles that aren't eating the penalty to BV for having -1 to hit, also good. At 2804 BV and no jump jets, this is probably the Behemoth that I'm personally most likely to use. Heat sinks are pretty much exactly where they want to be, and it's a nearly max armored 100 tonner at the end of the day. I don't tend to field 100 tonners often, period, so this is going to stay a C+

'Mechs by rating:

F: 2
D: 7
C: 8
B: 5
A: none
S: 1

Cumulative 'Mechs by rating (series):

F: 3
D: 10
C: 15
B: 9
A: none
S: 1

Strobe fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Apr 30, 2022

# ? Apr 29, 2022 04:55

PoptartsNinja: May 9, 2008; He is still almost definitely not a spy; Soiled Meat

Strobe posted:

Stone Rhino (Behemoth) 6: The movement profile on this thing is bizarre at 4/6/2 and I feel like there has to be some weird aerospace rules interaction here because otherwise it doesn't make any sense to not either 1) spend the extra 2 tons on a second jump jet or 2) not spend 2 tons to get to 3. Something tells me I am not going to be meaningfully upset with having "only" 13 Medium Pulse Lasers instead of 14. Which, let me tell you, that poo poo's hilarious. I'd rather they all be in the arms, and there's not enough heat sinks to really let loose, and at 2981 it's way too expensive to be serious. It will absolutely take someone off-guard if you corner them at blasting range, but that's harder to do than it looks when you have a 100 ton murder machine walking most of the way to do it. This feels like a meme, and one that I appreciate, but a meme all the same. C

It's also hilarious in Alpha Strike. Right up there with the Turkina Z but with better damage at medium range (provided you're willing to overheat enough to immediately shut down).

Absolutely a 'mech built with Alpha Strike in mind, considering you can get such notables as the Sunder SD-OB, Iron Cheetah Prime, the Atlas III AS7-D3, and Satan's Own Vanquisher 2 for the same PV.

A lot of really weird choices make for some pretty good 'Mechs in Alpha Strike. The Sojourner A is arguably better than the Prime and costs two points less, although functionally they'll probably perform about the same. For the same PV I'd rather take the Guillotine IIC, but that thing's a monster in any system.

PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 05:58 on Apr 29, 2022

# ? Apr 29, 2022 05:46

Breetai: Nov 6, 2005; 🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌

I'm guessing the 2 Jump is just enough to jump over a single line of buildings behind an opponent in an urban setting and violently horsefuck them.

# ? Apr 29, 2022 05:52

Strobe: Jun 30, 2014; GW BRAINWORMS CREW

It genuinely is not in a lot of cases. It'll get you moving faster through heavy woods, and there are definitely buidlings that are only height 2, but the importance of jump jets in urban environments is hideously overblown. The best thing it's possible to have in a city fight is high walk MP.

# ? Apr 29, 2022 05:53

Defiance Industries: Jul 22, 2010; A five-star manufacturer

The 11S just shows how good the 9T was. The only way you could make a better Zeus was to use Clantech to go bumper bowling.

# ? Apr 29, 2022 06:52

Strobe: Jun 30, 2014; GW BRAINWORMS CREW

It is legitimately one of the best 'Mechs in the entire 600 record sheets included in the series, and I feel like outside of maybe one other sheet is the king of things that move 4/6 (but don't jump) in the whole group. It's hard to make a better anything than the 11S.

# ? Apr 29, 2022 07:33

raverrn: Apr 5, 2005; Unidentified spacecraft inbound from delta line.

All Silpheed squadrons scramble now!

Man I can't wait for you to get to the nutty little Thunderbolt Shadowhawk.

# ? Apr 29, 2022 09:07

hot cocoa on the couch: Dec 8, 2009

are lrms really good? just thinking about force comps for our next game and thinking about how i got smoked 2 games in a row and the top damage dealer on my opponent's side was a catapult firing both lrms almost every turn

# ? Apr 29, 2022 12:39

Sidesaddle Cavalry: Mar 15, 2013; Oh Boy Desert Map

Strobe posted:

UrbanMech UM-R93

Was that the R93 or the R96? I think the R93 has a Plasma Rifle

# ? Apr 29, 2022 12:43

Rorahusky: Nov 12, 2012; Transform and waaauuuugh out!

hot cocoa on the couch posted:

are lrms really good? just thinking about force comps for our next game and thinking about how i got smoked 2 games in a row and the top damage dealer on my opponent's side was a catapult firing both lrms almost every turn

LRMs are great when you need to throw some extra damage at a target to try and force a Pilot Skill Roll, or if the target in question has had holes punched in their armor already, cause as long as you have a spotter, there's not a whole lot the enemy can do about not getting fired upon. Relying on them as your main source of damage dealing however can be kind of sketchy unless you can mass fire enough for it not to matter, since they tend to shotgun their damage all over a 'Mech, and that won't too much against targets with fresh armor.

That said, they serve great along since units that can tie up the enemy's forces and blow big, meaty chunks out of their protection, since that means the LRM Boat is less likely to have a fast 'Mech crawlling up its nose, and it'll have a bunch of wounded 'mechs to pick and choose from when it comes time to start killing.

# ? Apr 29, 2022 17:33

Strobe: Jun 30, 2014; GW BRAINWORMS CREW

Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:

Was that the R93 or the R96? I think the R93 has a Plasma Rifle

Both exist, both are hilarious. The R96 was XTRO Republic II, if I remember right, and had mechanical jump boosters, while the R93 is the more garden variety hardened armor Urbie.

# ? Apr 29, 2022 17:36

Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

Strobe posted:

The Exterminator EXT-7X is magnificently optimized and is simultaneously a coked-out carnival ride with no brakes.

*looks that one up*

What the holy gently caress.

# ? Apr 29, 2022 17:47

Defiance Industries: Jul 22, 2010; A five-star manufacturer

Fun thing about the Stone Rhino 4, as near as I could determine it has the highest single-turn overheat of any unit in the game.

# ? Apr 29, 2022 18:37

Strobe: Jun 30, 2014; GW BRAINWORMS CREW

Defiance Industries posted:

Fun thing about the Stone Rhino 4, as near as I could determine it has the highest single-turn overheat of any unit in the game.

I don't have the sheet in front of me, what does it get up to?

The Juliano is the highest I'm aware of off the top of my head for comparison purposes, at +37.

# ? Apr 29, 2022 19:39

PoptartsNinja: May 9, 2008; He is still almost definitely not a spy; Soiled Meat

Looks like a +28

VVV Forgot about Ultra. The Nova H just barely has it beaten too at +35 :allears:

PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Apr 29, 2022

# ? Apr 29, 2022 19:56

Defiance Industries: Jul 22, 2010; A five-star manufacturer

That does barely beat it out, the Stone Rhino 4 clocks in at +34 (if you fire your UACs in Ultra mode)

# ? Apr 29, 2022 19:57

PoptartsNinja: May 9, 2008; He is still almost definitely not a spy; Soiled Meat

Hunchback IIC 2 beats my top guess at +46 heat on a jumping alpha strike.

On the expanded heat table that's one past the automatic ammo explosion and a 20+ shutdown avoidance roll.

PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Apr 29, 2022

# ? Apr 29, 2022 20:17

Holybat: Dec 22, 2006; I made this while you were asleep.

if these mechs did the old MechWarrior 2 PC game behavior with that high of an overheat, the Nova H becomes the solahma ride of choice. One hell of a shot and you're not coming back to base when it cracks off :supaburn:

Edit: nevermind Hunchback IIC 2 keeps that chassis' suicidal Clanner ride crown holy poo poo lol

# ? Apr 29, 2022 20:20

Strobe: Jun 30, 2014; GW BRAINWORMS CREW

PoptartsNinja posted:

Hunchback IIC 2 beats my top guess at +46 heat on a jumping alpha strike.

On the expanded heat table that's one past the automatic ammo explosion and a 20+ shutdown avoidance roll.

How does this compare to the Shrike's variants, which would have been my next guess? Malvina's in particular is just unreasonably toasty.

# ? Apr 29, 2022 20:22

PoptartsNinja: May 9, 2008; He is still almost definitely not a spy; Soiled Meat

Strobe posted:

How does this compare to the Shrike's variants, which would have been my next guess? Malvina's in particular is just unreasonably toasty.

I don't have Malvina's but the Shrike 3's a toasty +25

Tomahawk B blows everything out of the water at a +58 (110 heat generated on a running alpha strike, 52 sunk)

Seriously even the expanded overheat table isn't enough for that. They've gotta release an expanded expanded overheat table now.

PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Apr 29, 2022

# ? Apr 29, 2022 20:32

Sidesaddle Cavalry: Mar 15, 2013; Oh Boy Desert Map

Ah yes, the Automatic Stackpole Meltdown finally gets its time to shine!

# ? Apr 30, 2022 02:32

Rorahusky: Nov 12, 2012; Transform and waaauuuugh out!

PoptartsNinja posted:

I don't have Malvina's but the Shrike 3's a toasty +25

Tomahawk B blows everything out of the water at a +58 (110 heat generated on a running alpha strike, 52 sunk)

Seriously even the expanded overheat table isn't enough for that. They've gotta release an expanded expanded overheat table now.

At that point the 'Mech should literally just turn to black ash and blow away in the wind.

# ? Apr 30, 2022 04:34

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# ? May 29, 2024 10:39

Strobe: Jun 30, 2014; GW BRAINWORMS CREW

Rorahusky posted:

At that point the 'Mech should literally just turn to black ash and blow away in the wind.

The Full Ulric, I like it.

quote:

Adder (Puma) I: There's a lot to work with here. The biggest downside to a brace of ER Mediums, Improved Heavy mediums, and SRM-6s is that the range is a bit lacking. The biggest upside is that you will absolutely eviscerate anything you point guns at. Not quite enough heatsinks to do so comfortably, and I'd probably have liked to ditch a laser or two for CASE II, but the core concept is fun. It's not too expensive, either, at 1575. Solid performer, but it'll be on the back bench for me. C

Adder (Puma) K: ER Large Pulse good, Clan Rotary AC/2 bad. A study in contrasts. I think the single ER LPL isn't enough to overcome the anemic damage of the RAC/2, and the inclusion of Laser AMS is neat but it's not likely to do much. The BV is honestly pretty good at 1281, but being unable to reliably force a PSR at any range but cigar-lighting range is a big downside. D

Adder (Puma) L: Putting a lot of Streak LRMs on something is not particularly weight efficient. Generally that's not a deal-breaker for me, and in this case by itself it wouldn't be, but adding jump jets takes the BV up high enough to 1738 that it's a tough sell. There's enough ammo here to just hold down the trigger and hope something connects, and the ER Mediums are enough that it will still accomplish something. ECM Suite is along for the ride as a utility pick but honestly I don't see it getting much use except as a defense against Artemis IV. It's not awful, it's just not good. C

Adder (Puma) S: Pffffthahahahaha. I actually like this thing entirely for putting quad Medium Pulse Lasers on, all of the Machine Guns are just gravy after that. Full electronics suite means that you can reliably perform an EWAR role and this thing is actually pretty cheap at 1427. Sixteen machine guns is enough to meaningfully critseek with, and I can actually see using this thing in an offensive role and feeling like that was a good choice. B

Adder (Puma) T: What if we took an Adder Prime, and made it less heat efficient? Well, this thing happens. I'm not a fan. It can fire exactly one PPC with a capacitor at a run, the second one will put it up to +20 on the scale. Pass. Especially for 2182. After a certain amount of damage, a headcapper is still just a headcapper, and these guns aren't appreciably scarier than an Adder Prime's guns but are much harder to use. D

Hierofalcon Prime: I play Jade Falcon, and that slightly colors my perception of this 'Mech. That said, a HAG/20 and two Improved Heavy Mediums on a well-armored Medium that jumps 8 is a very good time, and for 1878 it does a lot of work. There's arguably not enough ammo for the HAG, but the heat balance is phenomenal (+4 on a jumping alpha) and it retains the ground speed to set up a good run to take the target numbers down if you're against a faster opponent. Good damage, good mobility, decent durability. It's a very good 'Mech. A

Hierofalcon A: This takes the Prime up to 11 on the mobility category. It is probably a bit anemic in terms of damage, and struggles to deal a PSR, but it's the kind of 'Mech that exemplifies what the Ostscout 12R was trying to do - be ungovernable - but this time also actually be able to hurt something. The Flamers are a bit weird and I'd rather have some variety of small laser or ditch both entirely for a single one ton piece of equipment, but the overall package is sublime. At 1953 BV it is at the mercy of basically only falling over and will comfortably keep up on both the map and the damage tracker with most things its cost or cheaper. One thing that really doesn't leap out looking at the record sheet is that this thing only generates +3 on a jump with all guns except the Flamers. That's nuts. The only thing keeping this from being an S is that if you're actually wringing maximum efficiency out of it you're playing a very slow and uneventful game. A+

Heirofalcon B: The Prime and A are better than the B, but I love this dumb little thing. The ER Medium Laser and ER Smalls are just token energy guns, the real attraction is six SRM 6s. That's hilarious. Normal jump jets and 24 heat worth of SRM 6s alone means this one can get toasty, but if you get a good move and end up behind someone it's hilarious. Arguably a weaker config, but I love the gimmick. At 1737 you can afford to joke around with it a bit. A-

Heirofalcon C: Stop putting Clan RAC/2s on 'Mechs. The ER PPC even keeps it expensive enough that it's also the most expensive config so far at 1983. I'm not a fan, even if there's finally enough ammo to actually exploit the RAC/2's ability to put out two point hits at irresponsible ranges. An average cluster roll on the ideal 5-shot burst will force a PSR with the ER PPC, and that's the only thing that keeps this config out of the dumpster. C-

Hierofalcon D: Or as I like to call it, the Shadow Cat 2.5. This config is what happens when you don't put jump jets on a 'Mech with a partial wing. That's a good thing to be able to do, because it means you've correctly allowed for the choice between standard and Improved jump jets by config, but sometimes it means we get weird ones. This one is weird. Paired ER Mediums, ER Medium Pulse, and ATM-6s are a lot of damage, and there's a Supercharger here too to keep the ground speed high enough to hit a +4 TMM. It's an interesting config, but it really does compete very directly with at least one Shadow Cat III config coming up, and I think that the Hierofalcon comes up wanting in that matchup. At 2183 BV it's also the most expensive Hierofalcon config. Not unplayable, just also definitely not what I expect a Hierofalcon to be. C+

Shadow Cat III Prime: Speaking of Shadow Cats, here we are. The Prime is a Gauss Rifle and two Medium Pulse Lasers, but no jump jets. Armor is better than the original Shadow Cat, and the BV is better too at 2021. Simple, effective. I like it. The Gauss Rifle also has enough ammo in a big way at 24 shots. B+

Shadow Cat III A: Two ER Large Lasers on a 6/9[12]/6 platform. The BV is okay at 2005, and it's appreciably better armored, but I feel like at this point why not just field an Ice Ferret F? I'm not sure 250 BV is what I'm willing to pay to get that without the Watchdog. Not terrible, just outshone by other configs of similar size Omnis. C

Shadow Cat III B: Quad ATM-3s is definitely a choice. I'd personally prefer ATM-6s instead. ER Medium Lasers with a Targeting Computer, and a very good suite of electronics, plus the jump jets from the A, round out the config. At 2183 it's the most expensive Shadow Cat III so far and it's arguably not the best to show for it. There's enough ammo for the ATMs so this one is definitely a good skirmisher, just not my cup of tea. C

Shadow Cat III C: I love this config. I don't think it's a particularly good config, all things considered, with a single LB-20X and two tons of ammo plus an Improved Heavy Large Laser, but it has both Supercharger and MASC which is hilarious. It sprints 15 hexes and will happily carve something open at the end of it. There's honestly probably not enough heat sink here, but there's absolutely no fat to trim from it, and I'd rather have this flawed monstrosity than something missing the Supercharger to accommodate the heat scale. The BV is 2153 and that's too much, but it will occasionally trade-up hilariously into something big and that will pay for many, many bad games. B-

Summoner (Thor) T: Also stop putting PACs on things. I don't like the PAC/8 almost entirely because it is worse in every way than an Inner Sphere Large Laser, and that's as good as they get. Streak LRMs are... fine, but the feeling here is that all of the weight savings from the autocannon went into making the LRMs Streaks and it's just... eurgh. I'd rather have an Ultra AC/5 and Artemis V, and that comparison is so much more attractive that I dislike the Summoner T even more now that I've conjured it for this example. Paying 2355 for this, even with an ER PPC in the other arm, is highway robbery and I don't like it. D

Summoner (Thor) AA: For a brief moment I interpreted this as the A and almost metaphorically ripped up the record sheet, and then I remembered that this is actually a new config and it's very good. It's a Summoner A, except the regular Large Pulse is now an ER Large Pulse, and the Gauss Rifle has two tons of ammo. The Gauss Rifle has two tons of ammo. Honestly that could have been the only change and I'd still be stamping this with an A. It's a Summoner so it's also hilariously oversinked, but I don't care because they fixed the A's only problem. Also the BV is 2216 and that's pretty decent. A

Summoner (Thor) F: This is basically the Grand Summoner Prime, and I respect it. Twin Ultra AC/5s depresses BV a lot while also being effective long range guns, three ER Mediums is enough punch up close to stay dangerous, and a single LRM-10 is okay I guess. This is perfectly sinked on a jumping alpha, which means it has two too many heat sinks, but it's a Summoner so that was the bargain struck when you started using this chassis. At 2186 it's solid, even if the Grand Summoner is just better at it. B+

Summoner (Thor) J: This is a jumping HAG/40. There are also a couple Improved Heavy Mediums on here but who cares about those, this is a jumping HAG/40. This 'Mech would be much better if not for the single Ferro-Fibrous slot in the left arm, which prevents this from being able to use the HAG/40 into the rear by flipping arms. A drat shame, that is. Everything else is fine except the BV, which at 2666 is too much for this gimmick. It's still a gimmick I like, though, and it gets a C+.

Summoner (Thor) Q: Non-Improved Heavy lasers aren't really my jam, but I respect jamming six SRM 4s into a Summoner. ER PPC and Large Pulse Laser are more than enough long range, and there are enough heat sinks here that there are very obviously two ranges that this config fights at: 20, and 3. It's decent at both, and at 3 it's hilarious. The BV at 2479 is merely okay. I like it better than a lot of Summoners, but not better than most Summoners. C

Battlemaster BLR-2C: I'll be honest, I completely misremembered what the BLR-2C was when I was hyping it up earlier this week. That was the BLR-6C that I was thinking of. This one is still good. There's an ER PPC (good), and SRM 6 (good), four Medium Lasers (good), an Active Probe (good), an AMS (ehhhhh), 17 single heat sinks (uhhhhh), and no CASE (yikes). At 1563 it has legs as an upgrade to a Succession Wars/Introductory Battlemaster, but for the combat capability you can do better. Or more specifically the durability. There's also a Command Console, which is very useful for doing nasty things with initiative, but I feel like this variant is a bit limited with its vulnerability to want to use it much. Still, I can see it hitting the field and I love most things Battlemaster. C

Battlemaster BLR-3M: This is definitely a reprint. It doubles up the SRM ammo, has only a single Machine Gun with a full ton of ammo, and has multiple rear facing Medium Lasers. There's an ER PPC and all the ammo is protected by CASE, and it has 18 double heat sinks. These combine to make it average. At least the ER PPC is in the side that doesn't have the ammo in the side torso. 1679 BV is more than I want to pay for this, but it's reasonable. C

Battlemaster BLR-3M-DC: Exactly identical to the previous 'Mech, but both Mediums facing the rear are gone and so are two doubles to fit a Command Console. Down to 1627 BV, and arguably better than the 3M I think, but still one that I will merely play. C

Battlemaster BLR-3S: Definitely a reprint. LRM 20, SRM 6 with too much ammo, a bunch of Medium Pulse Lasers including two to the rear. Twenty-two single heat sinks is... honestly it's probably enough, but it's enough that cost way too much. Eschewing the big energy gun in the right arm, putting CASE in both torsos with an XL Engine, and still having rear firing lasers are all big downsides. BV is probably good for what you get at 1441 but it does a bunch of things I just don't like and I resent it for that. D

Battlemaster BLR-6C: I love this 'Mech. It has two Small X-Pulse Lasers, a Streak SRM 6, two rear firing ER Small Lasers, and then four Light AC/5s in the torsos. Rolling Thunder is one of my favorite books, so this one I like more than is reasonable. There's enough LAC ammo to mix and match, and this is actually, genuinely a threat to headhunters that rely on speed. It has a Command Console and can handle all the heat it will ever need to with 10 doubles. A Light Fusion Engine and CASE II in both torsos means it's practically a zombie, or near to it. And it does it all for 1557 BV. I'd be taking something this durable with this many guns at that price point in the first place, the command console is just a bonus. Love it. A

Battlemaster BLR-6G: In comparison, I want to love this variant very bad, but I just... don't. I mentioned in the Grasshopper 8K entry that I don't like when something doubles down on Light PPCs, and this thing has four of them, to go with a Heavy PPC in the arm. Firing all PPCs at a run takes you to +5 heat, exactly the wrong number. Two Small X-Pulse Lasers are barely worth mentioning, and there's a Streak SRM 6 and rear mounted ER Small Lasers that are also probably not going to be mentioned often. This is exactly one of those situations I'd rather have pulse lasers and heat sinks than Light PPCs. Or Re-engineered Lasers. That'd be an exciting twist, but instead we got a bunch of Light PPCs. Dang. BV at 1960 is high-ish but it's durable and has a lot of ranged firepower that definitely pumps up the numbers. It's acceptable, I'm just annoyed by what could have been. C+

Battlemaster C 3: Those posters among you who are sensitive to Good Clan 'Mechs please look away. The C 3 is all Clantech, and it has: an ER PPC, a Streak SRM 6, six Medium Lasers, and all of it is tied to a Targeting Computer. It has a standard engine, and enough heat sinks to fire all six medium lasers and the Streak at mid range with no build up. I guess there's some machine guns here too, whatever. This thing is very good, and at 2579 it's worth every point. Play this to make your grog friends complain about Clan 'Mechs being bullshit. A

'Mechs by rating:

F: none
D: 4
C: 12
B: 4
A: 6
S: none

Cumulative 'Mechs by rating (series):

F: 3
D: 14
C: 27
B: 13
A: 6
S: 1

# ? Apr 30, 2022 04:51

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Battletech: Clan Wolf is "Licensed to il"

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