|
Zeron posted:That's a good DD. Reconstruction having full representation is very, very nice. The journal system looks like it could lead to some very, very good flavor. Eh...I think the Civil War became inevitable with the Virginia House of Commons narrowly voting down gradual emancipation in 1832. So, being able to avoid it, or even make it significantly smaller in a game with a start in 1836 seems ahistorical. Virginia will secede, and with her the rest of the South. Really, just another reason to shift the time frame of the game from 1836-1936 to 1815-1920 Edit: I'd also like to see how the crisis system interacts with it. Can you get a world war out of if it? Britain and France, go into support the CSA, Russia and Prussia support the Union (but are really just using their enemie's distraction as an excuse to attack the Ottomans and Austria respectively) and Europe goes up in flames? Charlz Guybon fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Apr 29, 2022 |
#
?
Apr 29, 2022 14:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 23:46 |
|
|
It may not be very plausible, but is it really less probable than a successful restoration of Byzantium, or any of the other whacky alt-history things Paradox fans love to do? The game is definitely better for allowing the civil war to be averted, even if it's very difficult
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2022 15:07
|
|
|
Eh generally allowing an event to not happen is nowhere near allowing something to happen
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2022 15:12
|
|
|
That's the rub with all the Paradox games, isn't it? There's a huge tension between the simulationist side and the sandbox side. There are reasons to want to take into account all the various historical factors, but it risks railroading the game. On the other hand, play a little too loose and you lose the grounding that makes that era interesting. Everyone's going to have different opinions on where the right balance is.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2022 15:13
|
|
|
If you somehow manage to industrialize the South enough the planters lose power compared to industrialists that could potentially avoid the Civil War. Whether that's actually doable is a different question...
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2022 15:17
|
|
|
OddObserver posted:If you somehow manage to industrialize the South enough the planters lose power compared to industrialists that could potentially avoid the Civil War. Whether that's actually doable is a different question... which is a risk, because you're just handing industries over to the secessionists if you fail
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2022 15:41
|
|
|
I want to be able to avert the civil war through various means, and have it snowball into proto world war. Having just read an alternate history series where exactly the latter happens may be coloring my desires.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2022 16:10
|
|
|
Arrath posted:I want to be able to avert the civil war through various means, and have it snowball into proto world war.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2022 16:12
|
|
|
Charlz Guybon posted:Which one? https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2785829-britannia-s-fist Not so much world war, but the UK and France throw in with the CSA while Russia gives some assistance to the Union. It was a fun read.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2022 16:16
|
|
|
Jazerus posted:which is a risk, because you're just handing industries over to the secessionists if you fail On the other hand, slaves can't be used in factories, so it's not like they're going to get nearly as much use out of them.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2022 19:50
|
|
|
Lady Radia posted:we dont know how much the alpha reflects the status of the released game, there could be more decisions and influence you can have in the released state True but that's not just what the leaked version says it's what the dev diaries say.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2022 19:52
|
|
|
Capfalcon posted:On the other hand, slaves can't be used in factories, so it's not like they're going to get nearly as much use out of them. Ah yes set them up to shutter their industry when they have to conscript the entire workforce, I like it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2022 19:53
|
|
|
Building up the Proletariat in the south as a cudgel against the planter aristocracy 
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2022 20:56
|
|
|
The planter aristocracy was so deeply entrenched that it's hard to imagine the debate ending in anything other than a war if you abolish slavery. Keeping slavery? I can see a lot of unrest in the north but at the end of the day they'd accept it
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2022 21:00
|
|
|
Hellioning posted:True but that's not just what the leaked version says it's what the dev diaries say. i feel like there's gonna be more interactivity implied from those? but i might be wrong, who knows. cant wait for 2024
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2022 21:01
|
|
|
A Rome era total conversion mod might be interesting. Especially for something like the First and Second Punic Wars; be interesting to be able to have something similar where my generals keep loving up until I finally find the 1-2 punch that brings the war to Carthage. The Punic Wars kinda had this feeling to them reading about them as being like a proto-Total War between two classical states. And not having direct control over your generals/armies makes a lot of sense. Just need the ability for popular Generals to try to take power in a coup and you got everything you need.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2022 03:32
|
|
|
What's wrong with popular generals taking power
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2022 03:39
|
|
|
DaysBefore posted:The planter aristocracy was so deeply entrenched that it's hard to imagine the debate ending in anything other than a war if you abolish slavery. I'd personally enjoy a scenario based on riling up the anti-slavery faction so much that John Brown's raid succeeds with far more support, starting the civil war by having a civil war inside the south going at the same time.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2022 03:48
|
|
|
Rynoto posted:I'd personally enjoy a scenario based on riling up the anti-slavery faction so much that John Brown's raid succeeds with far more support, starting the civil war by having a civil war inside the south going at the same time. Dude was hella ambitious, just a shame he sort of froze and got himself trapped.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2022 04:30
|
|
|
If the abolitionists start an uprising you should be able to get Garibaldi as a general.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2022 04:43
|
|
|
I'm curious to see how revolutions work with the front system. A slave uprising wouldn't necessarily be one geographic region, it'd be little pockets all over the place. How does that work as a front? Do you have a whole bunch of them that combine as the front expands?
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2022 05:23
|
|
|
Mantis42 posted:If the abolitionists start an uprising you should be able to get Garibaldi as a general. Any left wing movement or national unification or independence movement should be able to recruit Garibaldi imho. Irish independence? Socialist Iran? Malagasy republican movement? Cmon Gary, get in, we're going liberating.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2022 05:58
|
|
|
Red Bones posted:Any left wing movement or national unification or independence movement should be able to recruit Garibaldi imho. Irish independence? Socialist Iran? Malagasy republican movement? Cmon Gary, get in, we're going liberating. whole heartedly agreed
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2022 08:42
|
|
|
Dr. Arbitrary posted:I'm curious to see how revolutions work with the front system. A slave uprising wouldn't necessarily be one geographic region, it'd be little pockets all over the place. Red Bones posted:Any left wing movement or national unification or independence movement should be able to recruit Garibaldi imho. Irish independence? Socialist Iran? Malagasy republican movement? Cmon Gary, get in, we're going liberating.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2022 16:30
|
|
|
Arrath posted:https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2785829-britannia-s-fist That's a good one, that was the inspiration for my earlier post. The best thing about it is that it has a plausible point of departure for European involvement that is post Gettysburg/Vicksburg, so the Union has a chance.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2022 05:29
|
|
|
AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I think I remember that they said something about small scale stuff like that would happen before a full on war happened. As in, that would be abstracted unrest that would require action from the country that may require troops and cost lives and equipment, but not be war with fronts. Thus a war with fronts would only happen once the revolt got far enough along. I could be wrong though. Yeah. IIRC the idea was that you shouldn't be playing whack-a-mole with small rebellions, it'll only turn into a war when it becomes a full-blown civil war.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2022 05:33
|
|
|
Gaius Marius posted:What's wrong with popular generals taking power Wikipedia posted:Marius returned to Italy during the War of Octavius, seized Rome, and began a bloody reign of terror in the city which culminated in him being elected consul a seventh time Hrm, what could go wrong. 
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2022 16:30
|
|
Raenir Salazar posted:Hrm, what could go wrong. OTOH you have Grant, Eisenhower and Welllington, who all did fine as head of state/government.
|
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2022 18:31
|
|
|
Charlz Guybon posted:That's a good one, that was the inspiration for my earlier post. I may well have picked it up from your recommendation a while back.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2022 18:32
|
|
|
Marius isn’t a great example as at that point it was gonna be him or Sulla and Sulla was in many ways more brutal than Marius
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2022 18:33
|
|
|
CharlestheHammer posted:Marius isn’t a great example as at that point it was gonna be him or Sulla and Sulla was in many ways more brutal than Marius tbf half of sulla's brutality was part of his eternal struggle to one up marius
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2022 18:42
|
|
|
most of the brutality was aimed at the wealthy and noble. if you were a common roman it probably owned. just one big party every month celebrating the ascension of the newest faction in power. if someone pissed you off you could just tell sulla that he was a marius supporter and the problem would take care of itself
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2022 18:55
|
|
|
HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:tbf half of sulla's brutality was part of his eternal struggle to one up marius Yeah but the other half was him just not giving a gently caress and letting his supporters gorge themselves on anyone with any wealth. Which would have been fine had you know Sullas men not also been wealthy nobles
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2022 19:00
|
|
|
Yeah it'd be pretty dire if the elite purged themselves in an orgy of violence, i'd probably be unconsollable
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2022 19:04
|
|
|
But they didn’t purge themselves, it literally created the wealthiest man in Roman history!
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2022 19:08
|
|
|
GaussianCopula posted:OTOH you have Grant, Eisenhower and Welllington, who all did fine as head of state/government. Huh, never realized Wellington became Prime Minister at some point; still though all three were elected into positions of civilian state power via legitimate processes in competitive elections and not merely rubber stamped after a violent seizure.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2022 19:23
|
|
|
CharlestheHammer posted:But they didn’t purge themselves, it literally created the wealthiest man in Roman history! So you're saying they didn't go far enough and we need a true plebean followup for the coup de grace 
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2022 19:27
|
|
|
ThatBasqueGuy posted:So you're saying they didn't go far enough and we need a true plebean followup for the coup de grace I mean yes, the Gracchi brothers proved how useful democracy was
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2022 19:35
|
|
|
Mantis42 posted:most of the brutality was aimed at the wealthy and noble. if you were a common roman it probably owned. just one big party every month celebrating the ascension of the newest faction in power. if someone pissed you off you could just tell sulla that he was a marius supporter and the problem would take care of itself Just hope you didn't piss anyone off.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2022 19:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 23:46 |
|
|
Orange Devil posted:Just hope you didn't piss anyone off. i'd get what i deserve for being a marius supporter tbh
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2022 19:52
|
|