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Herstory Begins Now posted:buddy there is like a single person in here talking about and playing anything other than the ow2 beta I wasn't aware that the whole Overwatch community was on these here dead forums for boomers with terminal internet poisoning.
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May 1, 2022 21:02
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yeah, that single person is basically the whole overwatch community at this point source: this post from january
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May 1, 2022 21:05
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Jack Trades posted:I wasn't aware that the whole Overwatch community was on these here dead forums for boomers with terminal internet poisoning. Populations definitely gone down, but it's still pretty booming, especially in comparison to other games out there. There's always gonna be dudes saying "dead game, I don't play it any more"
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May 1, 2022 21:31
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I just want to not wait 10 minutes to play a 3 minute round of a game
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May 1, 2022 22:06
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Ravenfood posted:It didnt help that there were 6 tanks, 5 supports, and 30548492 DPS characters though, and those DPS characters often played really differently from each other. I liked playing Pharah but there isnt anything that comes close anywhere else. Something about the rocket tracking and height utilization and boop just tickled my brain right. I ended up almost always playing a tank or healer because of role queue and (prior to that) because it was better for the team and winning is fun. But gently caress it, I wanted to play Pharah, not just "DPS". Remove roles for heroes, give everyone a DPS, Healer, and Tank loadout that turns them into that role. Now you can always play Pharah if you're feeling the urge, but you can be a Pharah with healing rockets or something.
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May 1, 2022 22:09
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Herstory Begins Now posted:I just want to not wait 10 minutes to play a 3 minute round of a game Play support or stack up and you won't have this problem Pigbuster posted:Remove roles for heroes, give everyone a DPS, Healer, and Tank loadout that turns them into that role. Now you can always play Pharah if you're feeling the urge, but you can be a Pharah with healing rockets or something. Let Roadhog hook teammates to him and shoot them point blank with his healing shotgun
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May 1, 2022 22:13
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Codependent Poster posted:Play support or stack up and you won't have this problem i'd show you my profile of playing 95% support games, but alas no profiles in ow2.
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May 1, 2022 22:14
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Herstory Begins Now posted:i'd show you my profile of playing 95% support games, but alas no profiles in ow2. You're not waiting 10 minutes picking support and you're not playing 3 minute matches either.
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May 1, 2022 22:17
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Perhaps I'd like to play something not support and not wait 10 minutes, which is apparently forbidden matchmaking tech in 2022
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May 1, 2022 22:17
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Perhaps I'd like to play something not support and not wait 10 minutes And I would like for you to shut up but we can't always get what we want.
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May 1, 2022 22:19
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Yeah the solution is and has always been 'make support fun' and not add more and more layers of matchmaker mechanics and split the playerbase between different modes because making supports strong enough that people are fine playing them for a match is one change that blizzard simply refuses to make. I don't like queues either but lets not act as if Blizzard wasn't constantly beefing up supports (and tanks) leading to fun stuff like goats, launch Brig and Baptiste. What changes are you proposing to make playing support more enjoyable?
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May 1, 2022 22:33
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Damage role is so drat boring compared to the other 2. I just don't get why people don't play the fun flexy characters with lots of tricks instead of ones that just apply constant spam pressure most of the time. People that want to preshoot at corners at head level should play a different game. Is it so thrilling to hit a spammy headshot with massive hanzo arrow?
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May 1, 2022 22:38
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Role queue to address the sad mess that is Overwatch balance is a quite heavyhanded fix but they have been struggling with stacking balance since before the game came out. Priority pass is, however, an inexcusably terrible system. It's Blizzard straight up admitting that they can't make supports fun for most of the playerbase but are committed to keeping them 33-40% of the team, so eat your vegatables if you want to actually enjoy this video game. Coming back to the beta after not having touched Overwatch for like 4 years, I'm honestly astonished this poo poo ever saw the light of day. Paladins, which for all its many faults is the better game IMO, or was years back when I played it at least, never had this issue because its healers and tanks were actually fun. The Overwatch 2 beta both makes tanks more fun and limits them, so now tanks join DPS in the 10 min queue category. Arzachel posted:I don't like queues either but lets not act as if Blizzard wasn't constantly beefing up supports (and tanks) leading to fun stuff like goats, launch Brig and Baptiste. What changes are you proposing to make playing support more enjoyable?
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May 1, 2022 22:45
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headcase posted:Damage role is so drat boring compared to the other 2. I just don't get why people don't play the fun flexy characters with lots of tricks instead of ones that just apply constant spam pressure most of the time. People that want to preshoot at corners at head level should play a different game. Sorry guy. Junkrat is more fun than any other character in the roster by a huge margin
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May 1, 2022 22:46
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Turns out adding the mmo trinity to an fps doesn’t work no matter how hard you try to paper over the problems it causes
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May 1, 2022 22:53
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If supports were fun they wouldn't need to literally bribe people to play them.
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May 1, 2022 22:56
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Codependent Poster posted:Let Roadhog hook teammates to him and shoot them point blank with his healing shotgun Like, my suggestion was half jokey, but back when I played OW I only ever wanted to play Roadhog so this kind of thing might genuinely work. For me, at least.
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May 1, 2022 23:01
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Lucio is my most played class but he's the only support I really enjoy playing and the role feels like a chore to me otherwise if I'm getting hard countered or if someone already picked him. They just need to fuckin shuffle a bunch of the DPS heroes into tank and especially support. Bring back torb cookies but make them heal for like 200 HP or something
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May 1, 2022 23:03
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Arzachel posted:I don't like queues either but lets not act as if Blizzard wasn't constantly beefing up supports (and tanks) leading to fun stuff like goats, launch Brig and Baptiste. What changes are you proposing to make playing support more enjoyable? I think they probably need to overhaul the roles beyond the scope of what they've currently done or would ever do. Fundamentally if roles are fun people will play them and want to play them and that's the absolute core issue that they have never figured out a way to resolve in 6 years. In competitive contexts that is skewed by people playing what will win over what is fun, but that's where active, regular, and proactive balancing comes in. Limiting roles removes a ton of the potential for game-breaking strong combinations of characters so it should free some player power cap and, as would follow, making the solo tank more powerful (eg fun to play) made more people want to play tank. Meanwhile supports have been unfun from the perspective of 90% of the playerbase for years now and afaik support power has only trended downwards over the last few years since it's peak around the time of brig/bap's introduction. There are other things they could do beyond just making supports more powerful (and imo the direction to go there is make them more lethal and not to crank up the healing). Adding new supports would be a huge deal. They haven't added a support since March 2019. Beyond/failing that, they need to be proactively cranking the power level around until they find something that people actually want to play. What they have currently clearly is not it. Personally I'd love if they made supports more mobile and made that a core part of the role, particularly since the main target of most team fights is the supports, but that's also my personal bias towards finding mobility extremely fun in FPS games coming out. It's also a way of making weaker characters feel better, but don't tell blizzard that. Zen and anna's hopping back to their teams from spawn getting hacked and one clipped by sombras is definitely encouraging more people to queue up support. There's an added level of balance complexity because cranking up damage class DPS to deal with tank EHP just makes supports feel even worse to play, but also not much has really been tried here. Especially not after the introduction of role queue. As with the above, much of the answer here is to just regularly iterate on balance vs 6 month mega balance shakeups. anyways my thoughts on ow2 are mostly summed up well in the Dunkey review of the OW2 beta. I think he's right that you can't take characters and maps designed for a dual tank 6v6 game mode and just use them in single tank 5v5 without pretty much top-to-bottom overhauls. 5v5 has only exacerbated the existing balance issues, though currently that's masked by the game at least feeling fresh to play. Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 23:08 on May 1, 2022 |
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May 1, 2022 23:05
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I like playing support (and tanks) but I don't like playing it all the time. It's cool to mix things up a bit and yeah bliz just seems to have shot themselves in the foot for needing the trinity in a shootman game Just give everyone self heals like they did in the new final fantasy overwatch mode and make supports actual supports instead of healers
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May 1, 2022 23:05
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Pigbuster posted:Like, my suggestion was half jokey, but back when I played OW I only ever wanted to play Roadhog so this kind of thing might genuinely work. For me, at least. this would be worth it purely to see overextending dps rage after you save them from their obviously suicidal over-extensions
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May 1, 2022 23:09
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Macaluso posted:Sorry guy. Junkrat is more fun than any other character in the roster by a huge margin Yeah there are a few -- junk, genji, sombra that I think the entire role should be composed of. Basically high utility niche things that are in the same vein as a winston rein or lucio. Just forget about the FPS stuff.
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May 1, 2022 23:18
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Pick flex queue get 3 minute queues. Or pick support or tank for similar queues. It’s loving straight up lies to claim 10min waits for either of those. Quit flying off the loving handle complaining about made up poo poo. There are plenty of real things to complain about that aren’t just a straw man.
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May 1, 2022 23:31
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imagine dungeons posted:Pick flex queue get 3 minute queues. Or pick support or tank for similar queues. It’s loving straight up lies to claim 10min waits for either of those. Quit flying off the loving handle complaining about made up poo poo. There are plenty of real things to complain about that aren’t just a straw man. tank queue, sunday afternoon, literally 20 minutes ago 
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May 1, 2022 23:32
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And that happens every time?
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May 1, 2022 23:35
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 from rnin my experience, it was as low as ~5 minutes once, one was ~15 minutes (idk how long it was exactly, but it was so long I forgot I had even queued after alt-tabbing away 5-6 minutes in) and the rest have been 8 and change
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May 1, 2022 23:42
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Fair enough. My experience has been different. Weird. edit: I wonder if population has dropped since everyone is probably realizing that the game is not really that different and not that much has or will fundamentally change.
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May 1, 2022 23:44
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Yeah support is more or less instant, but tank and DPS have both been pretty long as far as queues go in my experience. Tank not AS much as DPS in most cases but I chalk that up to that Roadhog exists 
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May 1, 2022 23:47
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When everyone else wants to pick the popular characters too don't they know they are inconveniencing me, the main character of reality?
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May 1, 2022 23:50
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KNR posted:Paladins healers are more fun by virtue of having much higher damage output and DPS characters having various methods of selfsustain so the healers aren't as focused on babysitting the whole team. Overall higher time to kill, slower heals and everyone having short duration antiheal on attacks prevented GOATS style heal blobs. Herstory Begins Now posted:I think they probably need to overhaul the roles beyond the scope of what they've currently done or would ever do. Fundamentally if roles are fun people will play them and want to play them and that's the absolute core issue that they have never figured out a way to resolve in 6 years. In competitive contexts that is skewed by people playing what will win over what is fun, but that's where active, regular, and proactive balancing comes in. Limiting roles removes a ton of the potential for game-breaking strong combinations of characters so it should free some player power cap and, as would follow, making the solo tank more powerful (eg fun to play) made more people want to play tank. Meanwhile supports have been unfun from the perspective of 90% of the playerbase for years now and afaik support power has only trended downwards over the last few years since it's peak around the time of brig/bap's introduction. Does Moira really need more damage? I don't think there's much room to directly amp up support damage even further. They could shift more healing effects into HoTs so you're shooting the enemy team with healing on the side instead of the other way around but would that pull in enough people that would otherwise queue dps?
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May 2, 2022 00:07
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Moira is one of the only supports people seem to feel works in the current state of the game, likely because she has enough damage to dissuade flankers, good healing output and one of the best movement skills in the game. And people still largely aren't queuing to play her, so yeah, probably make her stronger (and at minimum raise other supports to something around her power/survivability level, too. Arguably Ana works alright, but that's mostly her grenade being incredibly OP though she at least has good damage and healing output. Still, people aren't queuing support in significant numbers to play her either, so give her a boost, too. Mercy is alright currently, too, but similar issue with people don't want to queue up to play mercy, so give her a boost. Same with lucio, make him a bit better until people are queuing in significant numbers to play supports. tldr: if a game physically requires 4 people to pick support to start and that is by far the limiting factor on games starting, then supports need to feel good enough that people want to click the support button. god help anyone who then has to figure out how to balance that at a pro-level, too Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 00:19 on May 2, 2022 |
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May 2, 2022 00:14
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I'd argue that Moira is in a pretty good position and that the goal should be to get all of the supports into that realm. I pretty much only play Moira solo queue (when I get support) because I can avoid getting dunked on in the back line, against most characters she has a reasonable chance of winning a duel or at least prolonging it until she's out of danger, and her healing seems pretty decent. Ana is good (even fantastic) when your team has a bit of situational awareness but gets dumpstered when you're left to hang.
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May 2, 2022 00:21
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Arzachel posted:Does Moira really need more damage? I don't think there's much room to directly amp up support damage even further. They could shift more healing effects into HoTs so you're shooting the enemy team with healing on the side instead of the other way around but would that pull in enough people that would otherwise queue dps? Another difference with Paladins was that the Paladins default role split was 2-2-1 so you immediately need half as many players who want to play healers. 2-1-2 was also popular, but arguably that was just people playing healers as DPS because multiple of them were mobile and damaging enough to do that with the right loadout.
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May 2, 2022 00:25
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my dream is moira, but with zens left click
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May 2, 2022 00:27
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My dream is Zen with Moira's fade.
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May 2, 2022 00:29
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current state of moira's fade is so drat good
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May 2, 2022 00:30
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imagine dungeons posted:I'd argue that Moira is in a pretty good position and that the goal should be to get all of the supports into that realm. I pretty much only play Moira solo queue (when I get support) because I can avoid getting dunked on in the back line, against most characters she has a reasonable chance of winning a duel or at least prolonging it until she's out of danger, and her healing seems pretty decent. Moria's good because she can take care of herself when everyone just walks around her unkillable but useless tank because right now the only tanks that are both mobile enough and have ways to actually do their job are Winston and D.va. Sigma gets a slight nod if his team is playing specifically AROUND him and have enough faith to not flee the moment the flanks roll in but really right now you're Ape or Mech or probably throwing. Even Orisa, who's basically a raid boss when you try to fight HER can basically just be ignored until all of her friends are dead and killed at leisure. Ana is the most powerful character in the game's current state- even moreso then tanks- in that she single-handedly gets to choose who lives or dies in a fight basically by herself... except for herself. She's fragile as gently caress and right now with mobility and flanks everywhere life is terrifying, but if you get to live as Ana for any signifigant amount of time into a fight your team has probably won.
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May 2, 2022 00:36
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My support hot-take is that healing should go down and damage and survival should go up. My tank hot-take is that D.VA is good.
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May 2, 2022 00:40
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Moira's character model and movement animation also makes her pretty hard to hit for the current Good DPS characters as well. Unlike Zen, Ana, etc
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May 2, 2022 00:40
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imagine dungeons posted:My support hot-take is that healing should go down and damage and survival should go up. Support should get the 30% movement speed buff, except Lucio and Moira.
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May 2, 2022 00:42
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