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The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable

Pretty sure the final proposed version for this is after you buy/sell, you need to unload or load all the munitions manually using a dolly that you have to push around.

If you are an astute player, you of course have bitches who work for you who will do all this manual labor for you. :cheerdoge:

Average time for this kind of reloading experience should definitely be hours/days. Nobody just reloads something without expecting a huge amount of downtime. That's why every planet is an entire video game experience where you can spend years living in its ecosystem, talking to abs befriending NPCs who are indistinguishable from normal players, etc.

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Thoatse
Feb 29, 2016

Lol said the scorpion, lmao
https://i.imgur.com/OAz9SrL.mp4

JugbandDude
Jul 19, 2016

Remember when you were young, you shone like the sun

Shine on you crazy diamond!

The Titanic posted:

Pretty sure the final proposed version for this is after you buy/sell, you need to unload or load all the munitions manually using a dolly that you have to push around.

If you are an astute player, you of course have bitches who work for you who will do all this manual labor for you. :cheerdoge:

Average time for this kind of reloading experience should definitely be hours/days. Nobody just reloads something without expecting a huge amount of downtime. That's why every planet is an entire video game experience where you can spend years living in its ecosystem, talking to abs befriending NPCs who are indistinguishable from normal players, etc.

Another instance where ~~dreams~~ clash with reality. In my dreams, I will be this grizzly space captain relaxing in the bar and watching space news, plotting my next space trip, being approached by space babes, while some peons load and unload my space ship.

In reality, it's a very slow dialog during which the server slowly reads from and updates a database.

And the plans for bridging that gap are in place already: we just need to finish server meshing as the last blocker.

Scruffpuff
Dec 23, 2015

Fidelity. Wait, was I'm working on again?

Lammasu posted:

What other games have had the trouble installing like Star Citizen and what usually is the cause of those problems?

It's usually easier to point to just one game that seems to have no trouble and then ask why CIG can't figure out what they did. Take WOW for example - installs by default right into Program Files (x86), a protected directory by the way, yet somehow can install files and run updates with no problems. Witchcraft I say!

Or look at companies that are actually doing it another approved way, which is to install in the local profile directory, or the public profile directory, which have appropriate user or global permissions respectively. Incredible! (GW2 used to do this, they changed to the first method at some point.)

Or, if you're a true entry-level dev just testing poo poo out, make a folder on C: and put your poo poo there. Not too elegant, but it will work. Stunning!

Now think about how CIG can't seem to manage any of that poo poo.

cmdrk
Jun 10, 2013

poor catte shouldn't be on a rope like that :smith:

Mellow_
Sep 13, 2010

:frog:

Mailer posted:

If you don't need to modify SYSTEM.INI and AUTOEXEC.BAT in order to load specific drivers and use a third party memory manager then your game is for filthy casuals.

Reminds me of when EVE Online nuked my computer's boot.ini and I had to fix that poo poo.

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007

cmdrk posted:

poor catte shouldn't be on a rope like that :smith:

i watched this loop twice before noticing the leash, i was delighted by this nearly frictionless bit of ground the cat discovered to use as a treadmill

Scruffpuff
Dec 23, 2015

Fidelity. Wait, was I'm working on again?

Mellow_ posted:

Reminds me of when EVE Online nuked my computer's boot.ini and I had to fix that poo poo.

I hope you checked to see if your house had copper pipes before bothering with the boot.ini.

Mellow_
Sep 13, 2010

:frog:

Scruffpuff posted:

I hope you checked to see if your house had copper pipes before bothering with the boot.ini.

Hahaha thanks for the reminder. I wonder if that thread still exists.

Au Revoir Shosanna
Feb 17, 2011

i support this government and/or service

sebmojo posted:

processing transaction

processing transaction

ComfyPants
Mar 20, 2002


Unmute this one
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/793611994862583830/875686458478960661/v5YWlnH.mp4

Lammasu
May 8, 2019

lawful Good Monster

Sandweed posted:

I want it to be like the ECM skills in Lancer Mech RPG where you can unshackle the AI in the enemy mech. But there isn't even AI in SC. They haven't even figured out cameras on turrets and that's tech we have today.

One of my big fiction pet peeves is when future technology is less advanced that what we have now and Star Citizen exemplifies that.

Shaman Tank Spec
Dec 26, 2003

*blep*



The Titanic posted:

Games from Razor 1911.

Honestly even pirate groups have pretty baller installers these days. It's basically a normal Windows installer with all the normal options you'd expect, plus you get to listen to fun chiptunes.

Meanwhile we have CIG's installer for a game you potentially paid thousands of moneys for, where to community has to crowdsource two page instructions that may help you get the game installed, but possibly not.

It's hilarious how poo poo they are.

Dwesa
Jul 19, 2016

Maybe I'll go where I can see stars
part 2 of interview with Sandi if anyone is interested

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSaeHKtEYkU

someone in refunds sub mentions this interesting bit from 737s

Inforunners:
So how many times would you say it's kind of increased in scope?


Sandi: I don't think it's increased for, I think it's literally been since about 2015. I don't think we've, I think there was that initial flurry of, you know, I mean, over promising. I, you know, I'm not a developer, so I don't want to speak out of school. But from my, from a marketing perspective it felt like over-promising, um. But once that initial crowdfund had stopped I think everybody had a breather and went hold on now we've, these things, [Inforunners: Now we've gotta make it]. Yes. Um, and I don't think there was anything, uh, what do you call it like, malicious is a bit of a strong word, but nobody was trying to, like, do something bad or fool people or or. It's just you're in the middle of this crowdfund and you're surprised that it's gone so well, and I don't think people thought some of those things through. Like, you know, unlocking this star system, that star system, you know? And then you're like, hold on a minute, I mean, yeah, from my perspective from marketing I didn't know what that entails. So i'm like, okay, sure right, because I'm not a developer, so I'm not there thinking oh well it takes 10 years to do.

lobsterminator
Oct 16, 2012




Dwesa posted:

part 2 of interview with Sandi if anyone is interested

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSaeHKtEYkU

someone in refunds sub mentions this interesting bit from 737s

Inforunners:
So how many times would you say it's kind of increased in scope?


Sandi: I don't think it's increased for, I think it's literally been since about 2015. I don't think we've, I think there was that initial flurry of, you know, I mean, over promising. I, you know, I'm not a developer, so I don't want to speak out of school. But from my, from a marketing perspective it felt like over-promising, um. But once that initial crowdfund had stopped I think everybody had a breather and went hold on now we've, these things, [Inforunners: Now we've gotta make it]. Yes. Um, and I don't think there was anything, uh, what do you call it like, malicious is a bit of a strong word, but nobody was trying to, like, do something bad or fool people or or. It's just you're in the middle of this crowdfund and you're surprised that it's gone so well, and I don't think people thought some of those things through. Like, you know, unlocking this star system, that star system, you know? And then you're like, hold on a minute, I mean, yeah, from my perspective from marketing I didn't know what that entails. So i'm like, okay, sure right, because I'm not a developer, so I'm not there thinking oh well it takes 10 years to do.

When marketing is worried about overpromising it has to be really bad.

marumaru
May 20, 2013



Dwesa posted:

part 2 of interview with Sandi if anyone is interested

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSaeHKtEYkU

someone in refunds sub mentions this interesting bit from 737s

Inforunners:
So how many times would you say it's kind of increased in scope?


Sandi: I don't think it's increased for, I think it's literally been since about 2015. I don't think we've, I think there was that initial flurry of, you know, I mean, over promising. I, you know, I'm not a developer, so I don't want to speak out of school. But from my, from a marketing perspective it felt like over-promising, um. But once that initial crowdfund had stopped I think everybody had a breather and went hold on now we've, these things, [Inforunners: Now we've gotta make it]. Yes. Um, and I don't think there was anything, uh, what do you call it like, malicious is a bit of a strong word, but nobody was trying to, like, do something bad or fool people or or. It's just you're in the middle of this crowdfund and you're surprised that it's gone so well, and I don't think people thought some of those things through. Like, you know, unlocking this star system, that star system, you know? And then you're like, hold on a minute, I mean, yeah, from my perspective from marketing I didn't know what that entails. So i'm like, okay, sure right, because I'm not a developer, so I'm not there thinking oh well it takes 10 years to do.

odd that she's saying this much isnt it

JugbandDude
Jul 19, 2016

Remember when you were young, you shone like the sun

Shine on you crazy diamond!
I didn't watch that second part, but it sounds like a real honest take there.

I'm quite surprised.

JugbandDude
Jul 19, 2016

Remember when you were young, you shone like the sun

Shine on you crazy diamond!
However, she ignores that they still increase scope all the time.

For example, this latest happy story of Mr. Artist man selling the wear and tear feature in CR's throne room is obviously another case of scope creep.

JugbandDude
Jul 19, 2016

Remember when you were young, you shone like the sun

Shine on you crazy diamond!
In an engine that cannot handle 10 people in the same room, sure let's add wear and tear effects to everyone's armor.

What can possibly go wrong?

Mirificus
Oct 29, 2004

Kings need not raise their voices to be heard
https://twitter.com/RobertsSpaceInd/status/1521496212263911427
https://twitter.com/Ash_Rackham/status/1521499487000276994
https://twitter.com/se7hix/status/1521504656718979072

Popete
Oct 6, 2009

This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
That he should grow greens instead of crushing on MCs

Grimey Drawer
Why, just why would you spend multiple hours clicking sell one item at a time in a broken alpha where your "progress" gets wiped frequently?

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002

It strikes me that one of the parallels Star Citizen has with Crypto and NFTs are mediocre, inexperienced programmers who think they are hot poo poo because they're working on something so trendy and perceived as ground breaking. And then people get surprised by like AkuDreams' funds being locked forever and the Ronin network being drained of $600m, both due to bad programming.

Same with SC - it's supposedly the "best drat space sim ever", but they can't get a loving inventory system right? I'm sure it's not easy to build one, but when you've spent $450m on this project and you can't get that done like every other AAA and indie game on the planet, what the hell are your people doing?

Rotten Red Rod fucked around with this message at 17:27 on May 3, 2022

Scruffpuff
Dec 23, 2015

Fidelity. Wait, was I'm working on again?

Rotten Red Rod posted:

It strikes me that one of the parallels Star Citizen has with Crypto and NFTs are mediocre, inexperienced programmers who think they are hot poo poo because they're working on something so trendy and perceived as ground breaking. And then people get surprised by like AkuDreams' funds being locked forever and the Ronin network being drained of $600m, both due to bad programming.

Same with SC - it's supposedly the "best drat space sim ever", but they can't get a loving inventory system right? I'm sure it's not easy to build one, but when you've spent $450m on this project and you can't get that done like every other AAA and indie game on the planet, what the hell are your people doing?

Star Citizen is like a game emulator. They've seen what's in actual games, so they fiddle with their engine to make it look and/or act similar to what they've seen, but it always winds up fiddly and weird, coming miles short of what a single indie dev can make. It's kind of surreal - it's almost like it's on purpose.

Mirificus
Oct 29, 2004

Kings need not raise their voices to be heard

HUGE amount of positivity around Star Citizen right now! posted:

There seems to be a great deal of positivity about Star Citizen at the moment. Lots of new YouTube content providers popping up, some with literally millions of subscribers.

Obviously this is great for development but was wondering what you think this is down to? The new 3.17 patch? The generally progression of SC?

quote:

Believe or not it's partially due to haters and their FUD campaign lol

You see, before, general gamers would try Star Citizen with "biggest crowdfunded game" expectations. Not realising that it was an alpha product in active development with all the associated nasty bugs.

As haters pushed their FUD a lot of the general gaming fell for the hyperbole that there was no game at all.

That poisoned the well a bit but didn't remove interest for the game. It only lowered expectations of new players curious enough to give it a chance and find out why it kept making so much money.

And since the game kept getting more content, better performance and QoL fixes it became more and more aparent to gamers the disparity between FUD and reality.

Enhanced recently by popular youtubers showing that there's effectively an amazing gaming experience to be had if given a proper go with the right hardware.

So, not only Haters & Fudsters helped kickstart Star Citizen but actively help selling it to the masses lol

Chris & Sandi 6DOF Chess move.

"Checkmake Goonies"

Thanks for pledging.

quote:

Lovely post...thanks for this, made me chuckle. The FUDsters being somewhat useful for once in their lives.

Thanks goonies.

DaysBefore
Jan 24, 2019

Which Goonie are u? Dibs on Data

Mellow_
Sep 13, 2010

:frog:

Truly a ground breaking game.

Rotten Red Rod posted:

Same with SC - it's supposedly the "best drat space sim ever", but they can't get a loving inventory system right? I'm sure it's not easy to build one, but when you've spent $450m on this project and you can't get that done like every other AAA and indie game on the planet, what the hell are your people doing?

It's actually incredibly easy to make. A friend and I just finished one for a project in around 5 hours. That includes annoying poo poo like rotating an item in your inventory (think Tarkov tetris).

DarkDobe
Jul 11, 2008

Things are looking up...

Mellow_ posted:

Truly a ground breaking game.

It's actually incredibly easy to make. A friend and I just finished one for a project in around 5 hours. That includes annoying poo poo like rotating an item in your inventory (think Tarkov tetris).

Let me tell you about a little game called Hunt: Showdown...

(please no - I love the game but their inventory/loadout management system has been godawful, and improvements drip-fed and never great. We only got 'save loadout' options this year.)

Dwesa
Jul 19, 2016

Maybe I'll go where I can see stars
I too notice a lot of positivity about the product X when watching ads for product X.

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002

Mellow_ posted:

It's actually incredibly easy to make. A friend and I just finished one for a project in around 5 hours. That includes annoying poo poo like rotating an item in your inventory (think Tarkov tetris).

But are you able to sell multiple items at once? I bet not. Checkmate fudster :smug:

JugbandDude
Jul 19, 2016

Remember when you were young, you shone like the sun

Shine on you crazy diamond!
I feel some spite pledging coming in that thread posted by Miri and I approve it.

Mirificus
Oct 29, 2004

Kings need not raise their voices to be heard

quote:

Which is ridicule. If I have five books to sell on my backpack and I go to a used book store to strike a deal, I take them out of my backpack, negotiate a deal for all five of them and then get the money in one go. I don't need to pick all five books, put it in a different backpack and ask how much they can give for the books on the backpack.

Not only it fails in its pursuit of realism, but it does so by introducing a whole load of chaff. If it's not going to be realistic either way, then at least don't be annoying while doing it.

quote:



Well, how would you design it then?

There are a few things you need to consider, such as the economy (vendors are not dumping grounds, they will not accept anything and everything, only if their AI decides there is a demand and way to make a profit ,etc) So not only will you have to lug things around physically, you may have to lug them right back out again when the vendor says no.

Additionally, there cannot be a "sell all" type of button because the time spent doing that is not commensurate to the benefit you derive from doing it. There has to be a tradeoff. There has to be a way to slow it down, for lack of a better term.

Sure this overall UX can be improved, but it should NOT be improved the way most players think it should. They're wrong, because that's not for this kind of game.

quote:



You are playing it wrong if you think collecting all of that and selling it is the intended way to play.

Lammasu
May 8, 2019

lawful Good Monster
Can I have some of the crack he smokes?

Danknificent
Nov 20, 2015

Jinkies! Looks like we've got a mystery on our hands.
John Carpenter’s The Game: mimic game, absorb wallet

Mellow_
Sep 13, 2010

:frog:

Mirificus posted:

Well, how would you design it then?

Is he really claiming that it's difficult to only show the items that you can sell at a specific area instead of all of them?

That it's hard to track all the items you want to sell in one go?

What? Those are trivial problems.

I'm starting to think these dev-minded evangelists aren't dev-minded at all!


Mirificus posted:

You are playing it wrong if you think collecting all of that and selling it is the intended way to play.

What? For a lot of it there is literally nothing else to do with it because CIG can't implement game play loops.

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002

It is absolutely amazing that someone would claim that selling used military gear in bulk is not realistic :psyduck:

Well it would be if it was anyone other than our bad-brained Animal avatar friend here

marumaru
May 20, 2013



advanced decision making AI to analyze whether an npc wants to buy an item or not

Beet Wagon
Oct 19, 2015






It's cool that they have managed to make us responsible for star citizen's success as well as its failure.

Beet Wagon
Oct 19, 2015





HUGE amount of positivity around Star Citizen right now!

/r/games 3.17 trailer post (0 upvotes):

quote:

"Fueling Fortunes"? gently caress, they're not even trying to hide it anymore, are they?

quote:

Did they just advertise having to sit and watch a fuel meter fill up as a feature?

quote:

Just came back from trying and it's still a mess. Every single aspect is still fundamentally broken. Walking, taking stairs, interacting with screens, using the menus, equipping gear, shooting, trying to do missions, dying, respawning. Broken broken broken. Zero improvement in the last few years. Game is still a slideshow in cities. Game has like 1/200 of the announced content. I really don't understand where all the work is going.

Lammasu
May 8, 2019

lawful Good Monster
That is a good question. Where is all the work going? I mean when they do accomplish something, like rivers, the trot it out and show it off. Why do they have so little to show off?

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TheAgent
Feb 16, 2002

The call is coming from inside Dr. House
Grimey Drawer

Lammasu posted:

That is a good question. Where is all the work going? I mean when they do accomplish something, like rivers, the trot it out and show it off. Why do they have so little to show off?
Dev churn probably and management more interested in money and image than producing a decent product

Happens all the time but rarely for a decade and with this much fuckin hilarity

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