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Just Another Lurker posted:Better not watch Death Of Stalin then, Jeremy Isaacs will have you on your knees in no time. Haha good point, I did like that one.
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May 2, 2022 19:53
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Syrians got around their tank crews (which were almost entirely Sunni) not wanting to leave the bases by putting an Alawi with a handgun in each tank (and helicopters, actual pilots were mostly already alawis). I've been wondering if we'd see something similar in Ukraine, though Chechens are pretty deeply unpopular and idk who else Putin has that are sufficiently loyal and would also be willing to ride Russian vehicles into a warzone.
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May 2, 2022 19:55
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Syrians got around their tank crews (which were almost entirely Sunni) not wanting to leave the bases by putting an Alawi with a handgun in each tank (and helicopters, actual pilots were mostly already alawis). I've been wondering if we'd see something similar in Ukraine, though Chechens are pretty deeply unpopular and idk who else Putin has that are sufficiently loyal and would also be willing to ride Russian vehicles into a warzone. Holy cow that is ridiculous. Wonder how close we are to Russian jets defecting to NATO countries. I'd imagine they screen for loyalty among their pilots but would assumed whichever dept is responsible for that is probably as incompetent as the rest of them.
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May 2, 2022 20:03
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I mean, it wouldn't be the first time. Just hope the base staff are slightly more alert now.
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May 2, 2022 20:08
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Death of Putin will be a pretty great sequel "It's just me here kneeling in the piss, yeah?"
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May 2, 2022 20:30
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Syrians got around their tank crews (which were almost entirely Sunni) not wanting to leave the bases by putting an Alawi with a handgun in each tank (and helicopters, actual pilots were mostly already alawis). I've been wondering if we'd see something similar in Ukraine, though Chechens are pretty deeply unpopular and idk who else Putin has that are sufficiently loyal and would also be willing to ride Russian vehicles into a warzone. Putin re-instituted "Military-political deputies", aka commissars, in the Russian armed forces in 2018. https://www.armyupress.army.mil/Journals/Military-Review/English-Edition-Archives/July-August-2020/Finch-Russian-Political-Loyalty/ They're mainly supposed to indoctrinate the troops into the official government version of reality, but there was at least one report in Kharkhiv of a couple of Russian soldiers moving to help civilians caught in a crossfire and getting  ed for their trouble.
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May 2, 2022 22:37
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Just Another Lurker posted:Better not watch Death Of Stalin then, Jeremy Isaacs will have you on your knees in no time. I was just about to post that.
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May 2, 2022 22:47
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Lead out in cuffs posted:Putin re-instituted "Military-political deputies", aka commissars, in the Russian armed forces in 2018. Yeah, a couple of weeks ago the Ukrainians had a Russian POW who said he and his LT were shot for trying to stop some civilians from being executed. LT died, the survivor faked being dead until the other Russians left. Hope that guy isn't planning to go back to Russia afterwards.
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May 2, 2022 22:55
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As a military historian it's grimly amusing that ever since the Cold War there's been a significant effort made to correct the Nazi-influenced mythology of the Eastern Front: the Red Army wasn't full of incompetent butchers from stem to stern and that they did, in fact, have doctrine beyond "eh, just throw more soldiers at the Krauts". And then along comes 2022 and Putin confirms all the old stereotypes. Thanks for that, rear end in a top hat.
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May 2, 2022 23:44
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:As a military historian it's grimly amusing that ever since the Cold War there's been a significant effort made to correct the Nazi-influenced mythology of the Eastern Front: the Red Army wasn't full of incompetent butchers from stem to stern and that they did, in fact, have doctrine beyond "eh, just throw more soldiers at the Krauts". I was just thinking the same thing reading the (generally very good) GBS thread. Bet David M. Glantz is pissed.
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May 2, 2022 23:53
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just have putin put it out with his fire fighting plane duhdoi
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May 2, 2022 23:56
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edit: gently caress it I'll put it back I am suddenly reminded of the Russian trauma kits that consist of a belt, some gauze, and a wet nap. A.o.D. fucked around with this message at 00:03 on May 3, 2022 |
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May 2, 2022 23:57
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Put some Bazooka Joe in there so they have something to read while they wait to bleed out.
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May 2, 2022 23:58
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Stravag posted:If this is casualty averse what the gently caress is an unaverse approach "one man gets the rifle, the other man gets ammo. When-
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May 3, 2022 00:02
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https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1521224095848927233?t=czd4jFqPC9QkaB18q-Yd_A&s=09 I know it was likely previously shared and it's not an entirely trustworthy source, the same goes for the below. https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1521247950604804101?t=yyKo2yqpiv-Q7bDYazk-Kw&s=09 However, if true and russia shared information with Hungary, I really don't know what we would do. It would be clear that orban can't be trusted and may even be providing information from NATO to russia.
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May 3, 2022 00:15
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Nick Soapdish posted:https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1521147854949036032?t=yM3JvjYGAdBg5KyU6hFhFg&s=19 Interesting. Really explains why the Russian army regulars are so poorly trained and motivated. It’s very much the modern equivalent of Czarist military draft system that was brutal and exploited the peasants even by the standards of the day. It doesn’t function as a release valve for lower classes to climb the ladder to the next step like in most countries with modern armies, or hell, even more professionalized feudal armies in history. It’s not an escape hatch from poverty like in most capitalist countries but a trapdoor. It’s basically pure late oligarchy capitalism, you either buy your kids way into the educated class that does “respectable” paramilitary jobs like FSB, etc, or you fall into the meat grinder of the regular army where you’re going to be even further behind on life when you get out, unless you’re going to become a Wagner group psycho. Also a warning there’s pictures of Wagner torturing SAA deserters that are pretty yikes in the thread.
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May 3, 2022 00:17
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It’s depressing that all these bought and paid for ethnonationalists aren’t being laughed out of society. 40% of French voters looked at what’s happening in Bucha and still pulled the lever for LePen.
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May 3, 2022 00:21
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Hyrax Attack! posted:Holy cow that is ridiculous. Wonder how close we are to Russian jets defecting to NATO countries. I'd imagine they screen for loyalty among their pilots but would assumed whichever dept is responsible for that is probably as incompetent as the rest of them. Pilots vs other officers probably skew upper class and more “in-group” identities than most kinda officers, kinda like how Navy officers or foreign security services in general tend to skew very upper class compared to ground force officers or domestic policing services which will usually be more blue collar and diverse. Most pilot defections seem to be from “left wing” or sorta vaguely revolutionary bonapartist countries like Gaddafi’s Libya where the former aristocratic“nobility” or “warrior” class would be disaffected or in turmoil. Russia as it exists now is a deeply reactionary country very different than China/Libya/North Korea, which is why “authoritarian” is a pretty useless term outside of being an epithet for dictatorships the speaker doesn’t like since it ignores class conflict and anything besides either individual freedoms or centralization.
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May 3, 2022 00:32
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in a well actually posted:It’s depressing that all these bought and paid for ethnonationalists aren’t being laughed out of society. Tucker Carlsons best performing segments are the ones where he is the most racist. There is a line in that twitter thread above along the lines of, “we love all children as long as you are born white and in the motherland” (I know I didn’t get it exactly right, don’t @ me) What I am saying is that the racism and bigotry is the point.
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May 3, 2022 00:35
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in a well actually posted:It’s depressing that all these bought and paid for ethnonationalists aren’t being laughed out of society. 40% of a lower than average turnout, but still a significant amount.
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May 3, 2022 00:38
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Arc Light posted:Yeah, a couple of weeks ago the Ukrainians had a Russian POW who said he and his LT were shot for trying to stop some civilians from being executed. LT died, the survivor faked being dead until the other Russians left. The Soviet Union had a habit of sending their repatriated POW's to gulags or simply executing them because they "didn't fight hard enough". I doubt present day Russia has changed much in that regard, so if I was a Russian POW in Ukraine I would be very nervous about going back home.
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May 3, 2022 00:54
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A.o.D. posted:edit: gently caress it I'll put it back Just stuff some insulation and leaves in the wound to stop the bleeding sergei
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May 3, 2022 01:05
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there was some morphine in it too but well you know
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May 3, 2022 01:18
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Hyrax Attack! posted:Holy cow that is ridiculous. Wonder how close we are to Russian jets defecting to NATO countries. I'd imagine they screen for loyalty among their pilots but would assumed whichever dept is responsible for that is probably as incompetent as the rest of them. quote:the political officer “is expected to maintain ties with parents and relatives of military personnel, interact with religious representatives of traditional faiths, participate in military-patriotic education of civilian youth, [and] study and disseminate the best practices of the top military specialists who have distinguished themselves in military training and during exercises or training sessions.” "Oh I had a nice chat with your mom. I hear little Vera just started high school. And old Olya's leg is getting better. Such a lovely family! Be a shame if anything were to happen to them. Anyway, fly safe out there!"
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May 3, 2022 01:26
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I feel like the idea of Chechen forces being used as blocking detachments may be overstated because who the gently caress would trust their flank to the guys who are always a sneeze away from magdumping into each other in their LARP videos?
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May 3, 2022 01:30
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efb, of course
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May 3, 2022 01:41
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Coquito Ergo Sum posted:I feel like the idea of Chechen forces being used as blocking detachments may be overstated because who the gently caress would trust their flank to the guys who are always a sneeze away from magdumping into each other in their LARP videos? Inshallah
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May 3, 2022 01:49
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Coquito Ergo Sum posted:I feel like the idea of Chechen forces being used as blocking detachments may be overstated because who the gently caress would trust their flank to the guys who are always a sneeze away from magdumping into each other in their LARP videos? russians
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May 3, 2022 01:53
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Coquito Ergo Sum posted:I feel like the idea of Chechen forces being used as blocking detachments may be overstated because who the gently caress would trust their flank to the guys who are always a sneeze away from magdumping into each other in their LARP videos? It's confirmed in at least two instances- if it happens even once, it's enough to break morale.
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May 3, 2022 02:05
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BeastOfExmoor posted:For those who might be unaware, this was not just some isolate incident that happened and was included in the movie. This was basically Soviet policy for all of Stalingrad and most of the war.
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May 3, 2022 02:27
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BeastOfExmoor posted:For those who might be unaware, this was not just some isolate incident that happened and was included in the movie. This was basically Soviet policy for all of Stalingrad and most of the war. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_No._227 1941 -start of war 1942 -official usage of blocking detachments 1944 -official ceasing of blocking detachments 1945 - Victory in Europe So without going through the exact day to day timeline this seems like it was for at least half of the war or more.
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May 3, 2022 02:58
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I always thought blocking detachments were more likely to capture you and force you into a penal battalion than just machine gun you directly.
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May 3, 2022 03:09
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Yeah, Stalin would NEVER be that Moustache-Twirlingly evil, right?
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May 3, 2022 03:12
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Armacham posted:I always thought blocking detachments were more likely to capture you and force you into a penal battalion than just machine gun you directly. It's a war, you don't always have that kind of time. Especially in the middle of a battle where you need everyone to keep facing the right direction a few immediate examples probably work better. Penal battalions also require guards who are inherently outnumbered by the group of troops who have already proven they *really* don't wanna be there and are now conveniently among a likeminded group of potential deserters. Dead soldiers also don't eat.
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May 3, 2022 03:16
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I wonder how these Russian strategies of not giving a single gently caress about your soldiers is going to work with Russia's decline in birthrates since 1991. Back when they had a high birthrate in the USSR days, yeah it kinda made sense from a hosed up point of view. But now that their birthrate is pretty low, well lol.
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May 3, 2022 03:19
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in a well actually posted:40% of French voters looked at what’s happening in Bucha and still pulled the lever for LePen. Yeah, and that should scare the gently caress out of everyone because all it takes for "them" to get that remaining 11% is for people to start going hungry, and that's coming.
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May 3, 2022 03:45
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KitConstantine posted:It's a war, you don't always have that kind of time. Especially in the middle of a battle where you need everyone to keep facing the right direction a few immediate examples probably work better. I mean Wikipedia says: In the first three months, blocking detachments shot 1,000 penal troops and sent 24,000 to penal battalions. According to an internal list of the NKVD from October 1942, 15,649 soldiers were picked up by the restricted forces who fled the front line on the Stalingrad Front from August 1, 1942 to October 15, 1942. Of these, 244 soldiers were imprisoned, 278 were shot, 218 were sent to penal companies, 42 to penal battalions and 14,833 to return to their units. So if you have better sources than that, you should update that article.
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May 3, 2022 03:46
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Akion posted:From Discord:
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May 3, 2022 05:18
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https://imgur.com/7YTw1r4.mp4 (Unmute)
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May 3, 2022 05:23
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Order 227 comes up in the milhist thread with some regularity, as people with pop culture level understanding come in, and the long and short is that the vast majority of the troops caught by the blocking troops were simply returned to their units. Executions did happen but were comparatively rare.
Dance Officer fucked around with this message at 11:47 on May 3, 2022 |
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