|
Gravitas Shortfall posted:near as I can tell from the past decade is that the british voting public have a massive hardon for fascism and will vote for it at every opportunity, gleefully rubbing themselves that Those Wronguns are going to get what's what This is true. The other thing I've learned has been pithily summed up on these forums as "it's supposed to be poo poo; we like that it's poo poo; and if you don't like it, gently caress off". Many a well-meaning reformist offering Better Things has run up against this wall - I know we all have.
|
#
?
May 3, 2022 16:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 22:39 |
|
|
JoylessJester posted:They didn't just 'say something dumb' Standing against Labour imo is fine if it's to the left of them.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2022 16:50
|
|
|
You do of course mean Owen Jones, author of 'Chavs' and 'The Establishment: And How They Get Away with It', right? He's someone who absolutely understands the root causes of the biggest problems in this country (capitalism and the dispensation of power), and has a reasonably clear idea of how they could be changed. Bear in mind that at the time in 2017, he was literally surrounded by people who he had broadly respected and agreed with up to that point, who insisted that Corbyn was unelectable. I don't really blame him for buying into that angle for a while, and then adjusting his perspective as those he had respected showed their arses continually, and so he re-evaluated how much their opinions were worth and how much they should inform his own. There's a pretty big distinction in my mind between people like Jones and Monroe who genuinely agree on the issues and how they ought to be fixed, but had questions about Corbyn himself and/or Momentum, versus people like JessFlaps and Polly Toynbee who paid lip service to those issues and opposed Corbyn precisely because he wanted to bring about all those changes. If you want to question their judgement then go for it - even now Jones is wavering but for now still believes the Labour party is capable of delivering those changes. But he's also probably the nearest thing we have to an actual leftist commentator with any kind of mainstream platform. It's much better to have people like that, who are at least broadly on side and capable of having an honest debate, within the conversation, instead of dropping them completely. It's why I can at least respect people who believe revolution is the only way out - if we're that reliant on people like Owen Jones can we realistically expect to ever defeat capitalism in this country before the world burns? But if you're going to discard people like that who can be genuine allies then I don't see why you would bother talking about voting, because surely there's no electoral route to victory if you set the bar that high.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2022 18:06
|
|
|
kyojin posted:shut the gently caress up Definitely a good faith post and not a psychotically furious deliberate misreading of what Bobby said, gj, glad to have you on board, you're really helping
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2022 18:11
|
|
|
kyojin posted:shut the gently caress up Oh god, 17 year old anarchist me has somehow time travelled. Why would you do that lad, you had years of quality drug taking ahead of you and you’ve thrown it away to make a terrible post!
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2022 18:17
|
|
|
fasten your seatbelts friends, big keith's on GMTV or whatever it's called tomorrow from 6!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2022 18:22
|
|
|
wuruwruruwhg i buluv in bulding a buttah brutan for hardworkingfumily brutush pupal auruarghhg
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2022 18:22
|
|
|
Your Keith-posts always make me laugh, crispix
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2022 18:36
|
|
|
Don't be a dickhead to bobby, I don't agree with their position but that is mostly because I am a spite elemental.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2022 18:38
|
|
|
The brutish pupal is what the queen has gone into to enter her new stage, presumably to emerge as the weird sandworm guy from dune.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2022 18:39
|
|
|
It's like reading a book and then watching the film adaptation, and the film character is nothing like the person you have created in your head. I refuse to believe that the
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2022 18:40
|
|
|
Bobby’s a good egg, and more of a comrade than the person who waltzed into the thread to tell everyone who didn’t agree with them to gently caress off. When we getting the results of these elections anyway? I need to know when to Be Online.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2022 18:57
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:Don't be a dickhead to bobby, I don't agree with their position but that is mostly because I am a spite elemental.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2022 18:58
|
|
|
Bobby Deluxe posted:Nah, they can say what they like, I just wish they'd level that anger where it actually does something. This is the equivalent of shooting the guy who tells you the messenger is here. The messenger is WHERE??? gently caress YOU
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2022 19:01
|
|
|
lorda mercy 
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2022 19:11
|
|
|
I agree with Owen Jones on the vast majority of things but the point of departure is that he refuses to look beyond reforming Labour and wont accept that it’s unsalvageable. Which is a huge chasm because try to fix the party versus trying to provide an alternative are utterly contrary tactics. If I want to see the Labour Party go down in flames then if he wants to cling to it, he can’t help but get burned for me to get what I want. Polly Toynbee is absolute garbage though, who the hell would suggest a former candidate for the SDP as a lefty we should be trying to find common ground with?
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2022 19:37
|
|
|
Indeed I disagree with Bobby, but don't be so damned crass! Personal attacks do nothing. I think where the split comes, from Bobby's last post they put a lot of folks in the same bucket where "all labour is bad" is the extreme position. When we all actually just vote for a local MP and near everyone in the thread is in a different constituency. If your local labour person is one of the vanishingly small good eggs left there. Go nuts. If more lefties win, thats good. If they're a right wing ghoul or one of the shithouses who scuppered the last two elections. gently caress em. If they're a bland back bencher that just supports the party line and voted for the war in iraq, but says mostly positive sounding things like my lot, well. That's your call. I'd say gently caress em. They're not inspiring enough to vote for, I'll use my vote for someone else and if not, ill draw something amusing and spoil my ballot. If people voted en masse how they actually loving felt instead of all this holding nose bollocks, voting how you always have, we'd at least see some goddamn change. I mean, it might lead to horrid poo poo once the media realised whatever emotive thing happened the day before the election would change the vote massively...(more than it does already lol) But still... Mebh fucked around with this message at 20:40 on May 3, 2022 |
|
#
?
May 3, 2022 20:37
|
|
|
Tarnop posted:Your Keith-posts always make me laugh, crispix It's good but it's no Norman's partner
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2022 20:40
|
|
|
mrs norman was occupying rather too much of my thinking for a bit it got a bit scary tbh
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2022 20:47
|
|
|
I go back and forth on Owen Jones (ooh err). Overall I don't agree with him on everything, there are some things he's gotten very wrong, like his 2017 article on how Corbyn must go because an electoral defeat for him would be blamed on the left... But then I look back at a lot of the things I was thinking about/saying from 2017-19 about Labour and Brexit etc. and I now feel many of those were wrong. Ultimately, I think he's a good lad with a good political understanding and that he operates in good faith, and that's more than you can say for 99.99% of the rest of the commentariat. I think he's less melty than Michael Walker and Bastani, but maybe a little less correct than Ash Sarkar.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2022 20:47
|
|
|
I feel I'm going to have to hold my nose and vote Labour because I live somewhere where I might get a Labour MP. That's despite the party trying to do everything they can to gently caress me over. "Where else am I going to vote?"
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2022 21:18
|
|
|
You can write anybody you like on the ballot. Vote for lenin himself if you like.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2022 21:32
|
|
|
IllusionistTrixie posted:I feel I'm going to have to hold my nose and vote Labour because I live somewhere where I might get a Labour MP. Don't do it.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2022 21:40
|
|
|
Like would you feel worse voting for blair round 2 or just not voting? Cos I would feel worse about blair, personally.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2022 21:44
|
|
|
vote for blair's round 2
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2022 21:45
|
|
|
Voting Labour in my local constituency is a no-brainer because my MP is a good lad whomst never backstabbed Corbyn. In general my CLP was an early backer of Corbyn and one of the CLPs told to stfu when we backed him during the chicken coup. Obviously if your MP is Wes Streeting I would absolutely expect you to spoil your ballot.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2022 22:00
|
|
|
Guavanaut posted:vote for blair's round 2 "Don't hug me, I'm Blaired"
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2022 22:18
|
|
|
My constituency has a fallow year this year, so it makes my decision of not voting a lot easier. I live in a Tory heartland, so my lefty votes were always worthless in any case, but I'm hosed if I'll give Starmer's Labour even a worthless token of legitimacy.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2022 22:40
|
|
|
It might be worth reaching out to your local Momentum group to find out what they think of the candidate. There might be a lot of drama under the surface. In my council ward we managed to beat the blairites and select someone with decent policies - they're so angry they stopped showing up to CLP meetings and are refusing to cooperate with her.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2022 23:55
|
|
|
crispix posted:mrs norman was occupying rather too much of my thinking for a bit
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2022 01:36
|
|
|
Getting the £150 My council says: Alternative arrangements will be made for those people without internet access and for those that do not have a suitable bank account Please email ... (My emphasis)
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2022 01:37
|
|
|
Extract from Chums: How a Tiny Caste of Oxford Tories Took Over the UK by Simon Kuper, published by Profile on 28 April. https://www.theguardian.com/news/2022/apr/19/oxford-union-created-ruling-political-class-boris-johnson-michael-gove-theresa-may-rees-mogg A couple of telling quotes: After Johnson failed to win presidency of the Oxford Union: quote:a year after his humiliation, he ran for president again. He had absorbed another truth: that personality could trump politics. The second time around, he disguised his Toryism by presenting himself as an unthreatening funny man – “centrist, social democrat, warm and cuddly,” sums up Sherlock. He even managed to forge an alliance with a union hack from Ruskin College, rallying its student body of mostly adult working-class trade unionists behind his slate. An essay he wrote after graduating for his sister's book: The Oxford Myth quote:His essay tackles the great question: how to set about becoming the next prime minister? Johnson advises student politicians to assemble “a disciplined and deluded collection of stooges” to get out the vote. “Lonely girls from the women’s colleges, very often scientists” were particularly useful. Johnson added: “The tragedy of the stooge is that … he wants so much to believe that his relationship with the candidate is special that he shuts out the truth. The terrible art of the candidate is to coddle the self-deception of the stooge.”
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2022 03:12
|
|
|
Is it fair to say that Top Gear's original cast is a loyal portrait of your average Tory?
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2022 05:16
|
|
|
Angela Rippon and Tom Coyne? Probably.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2022 05:51
|
|
|
Mebh posted:If your local labour person is one of the vanishingly small good eggs left there. Go nuts. If more lefties win, thats good. If they're a right wing ghoul or one of the shithouses who scuppered the last two elections. gently caress em. My Labour leaflet is light on details. But he's in all his medals with tag like of "I fought for my country now ill fight for 'constituency'". Sooooooooo
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2022 07:36
|
|
|
My Labour councillor is ok but he's a colleague who sits on a committee with me, has had discussions with me, but utterly fails to recognise me when he knocks on my door, which really annoys me for some reason.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2022 07:46
|
|
|
So after bodying Johnson about all the people his party is killing right now, GMB is now questioning Kieth about that photo of him holding a beer again. I very much dislike the tory lite prick but it's sad that these interviews are equally as hardball.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2022 07:57
|
|
|
Lungboy posted:My Labour councillor is ok but he's a colleague who sits on a committee with me, has had discussions with me, but utterly fails to recognise me when he knocks on my door, which really annoys me for some reason. Some people do just have face blindness and rely on context clues to identify people. One of my wife's best friends gifted her a t-shirt with her name plastered on it to wear when they work together on shows, so she'd be able to recognise her at a glance.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2022 07:59
|
|
|
stev posted:I very much dislike the tory lite prick but it's sad that these interviews are equally as hardball. Personally I'm loving the poo poo Starmer is getting. Maugrim posted:Some people do just have face blindness and rely on context clues to identify people. One of my wife's best friends gifted her a t-shirt with her name plastered on it to wear when they work together on shows, so she'd be able to recognise her at a glance. Yeah I know that's true, but we've had work discussions while stood on my doorstep so my brain says he should recognise me. Stupid brain. E: the NI leader debate was pretty good last night if you want to see Donaldson utterly unable to say more than 5 words without mentioning the Protocol.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2022 08:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 22:39 |
|
|
stev posted:I very much dislike the tory lite prick but it's sad that these interviews are equally as hardball. Nah. These nerds thought kissing up to the right wing press and kicking the lefties would stop this from happening. Very funny to see them realize that it won’t
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2022 08:48
|
|