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they’re contractors, not employees
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May 3, 2022 20:13
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BiggerBoat posted:What ever became of the Owen Hart situation? I have to think someone paid out somewhere for that. his widow later had to sue for royalties when they sold DVDs about him, and understandably refuses to license his image or likeness for wwe video games or to let them induct him into their phony bologna hall of fame
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May 3, 2022 20:22
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I mean, someone made changes to the rig to turn part of the safety clasps into a quick-release so yeah, a pretty sizeable lawsuit would probably begin to cover what a tremendous fuckup that whole thing was.
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May 3, 2022 20:28
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Terry Funk pointed out in his autobiography that late-90's through at least Owen Hart's death, he noticed WWE safety standards were subpar at best.
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May 3, 2022 23:27
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FilthyImp posted:I mean, someone made changes to the rig to turn part of the safety clasps into a quick-release so yeah, a pretty sizeable lawsuit would probably begin to cover what a tremendous fuckup that whole thing was. The podcast I listened to also said that the accident had something to do with the Blue Blazer or whatever the name was that Hart was going by having to fasten or do something with his cape and that somehow tripped the release. God drat, the poo poo these guys put themselves through for this profession is something I can't decide is honorable, masochistic or just plain loving stupid. You really gotta love tossing other greased up muscle men around for what usually amounts to chump change (once you weigh in the cost) to get into this poo poo. It's easy for me to say they're being used and exploited but on the other hand there are so many people that want to get into it. I guess the fame is the main draw But even then, most of them are prohibited from really cashing in on it on the off chance they can monetize their brand like Hogan, Ventura or Piper. What I'm saying is that Vince McMahon is old and I do not like him.
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May 4, 2022 00:32
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vince forced owen's friends and co-workers to wrestle in the same bloodstained ring that owen died in earlier that night
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May 4, 2022 00:37
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NXT: SEASON 4 NXT continued to be an online exclusive show and went back to having male contestants. They did keep things whittled down to six Rookies, though. This time we have... Derrick Bateman (Pro: Daniel Bryan): Funny, enthusiastic, and jacked, it’s rather surprising that of everyone on this list, Bateman would have the second worst WWE career. Hell, he seemed like a lock to win the whole thing for a while, despite coming in at third. As Bryan’s protégé, Bateman would bond with him over their appreciation for Steve Blackman and their love for CHICKS AND AMERICA. Johnny Curtis (Pro: R-Truth): Curtis was buddies with Bateman and was like a more reined in version. Likeable, but not quite as in-your-face, it makes sense that Curtis would go on to win this contest. Brodus Clay (Pro: Ted Dibiase Jr.): It says a lot that this guy came so close to winning this contest despite being a heel. Brodus was a modern day King Kong Bundy, but had great mic skills to go with it. The guy was sized like a monster and got to act like one too. Conor O’Brian (Pro: Alberto Del Rio): You have to feel bad for this guy. Despite the dude’s size, WWE officials were mostly interested in Conor’s facial appearance. He looked vaguely rat-like and they wanted him to play that up. He told them at first that he was uncomfortable with that, so they fired him. Then they rehired him and told him to play up the rat thing. This time he relented. Byron Saxton (Pro: Dolph Ziggler): Byron didn’t have much going on in NXT, but he’s mostly remembered for once bringing out a finisher that... words can’t do it justice. Just watch this clip. Jacob Novak (Pro: Chris Masters): Another wrestler with no Wikipedia page, Novak felt like a lesser version of Lucky Cannon. Considering Lucky Cannon sucked already, that tells you everything you need to know. All in all, this was a pretty straightforward season. They did do a thing where they started giving the Rookies opportunities to switch up their Pros. That led to a loving amazing promo by Brodus Clay where he dropped Dibiase and called him “the brokest rich man I’ve ever seen.” Then he replaced him with Del Rio, which made for a good fit. The finalists were Curtis and Brodus. After Curtis won, Brodus cut another killer promo, this time about how the fans broke his heart and he will return the favor by destroying all of their heroes. Brodus’ post-NXT career was certainly something. At first, he remained Del Rio’s muscle. As Edge speared Brodus’ gigantic torso (which was more like a torpedo headbutt into his navel), that seemingly caused the neck troubles that kept Edge out of wrestling for nearly a decade. Brodus was off TV after that and they started to hype him up for SmackDown. This hype went on for a long, long time. Finally, after all this waiting, he appeared with the gimmick of the Funkasaurus, hailing from the Planet Funk, accompanied by the Funkadactyls. Being a dancing fat man gimmick led to him being in a dancing fat man tag team when Albert/A-Train/Lord Tensai later joined him as Sweet T and they called themselves Two Tons of Fun. After leaving WWE, he’d go on to be in IMPACT, show up on Fox News a bunch (I have no idea), and at some point became NWA Champion. Even though Curtis won NXT Season 4, it didn’t mean much. The prize for this season was supposed to be a tag team title shot with your Pro. As R-Truth turned heel and for a time entered the title picture, that left Curtis in the dust and they never followed up on any of that. Curtis instead started doing vignettes every week on SmackDown where he’d do some stupid visual pun based on a saying. Like pouring out some milk and crying. This didn’t catch on and eventually they just put him in a match against murder beast Mark Henry where he was easily destroyed. Then he went back to NXT. NXT: SEASON 5 WWE had brought up enough NXT Rookies. They had been burning through these shows too quickly. More importantly, the third and fourth seasons just didn’t feel like they mattered all that much. If a show in WWE doesn’t matter, that means Vince doesn’t care. If Vince doesn’t care, then you can practically get away with murder because it’s not like he’s going to see it! The fifth season was also called NXT Redemption. It was a contest featuring Rookies from the other male seasons, trying to redeem themselves and win via yet another NXT contest. It started with Darren Young (Chavo Guerrero), Titus O’Neil (Hornswoggle), Conor O’Brian (Vladimir Kozlov), Byron Saxton (Yoshi Tatsu), Lucky Cannon (Tyson Kidd), and Jacob Novak (JTG). Later on, Derrick Bateman (Daniel Bryan) was added to the competition. The whole thing was sloppy from the get-go with host Matt Striker constantly bringing up “Redemption Points,” which I’m not sure were ever truly explained. At one point, Chavo Guerrero was fired from WWE, so JTG became Darren Young’s Pro. Conor O’Brian didn’t have to play up the rat stuff this time. Instead, he was shown in a pre-taped segment discussing how hard his life has been and how he grew up poor. While this came off well at first, they then had him keep bringing it up in every promo until the crowd got tired of it. He and his Pro Kozlov then started entering each match by breaking boards with their heads and dancing. Novak, Saxton, Cannon, and Conor were gradually eliminated, leaving Young, Titus, and the returning Bateman. Around this point, the show simply stopped caring completely. Darren Young and Titus O’Neil wrestled each other seemingly every week. In the second season, Titus only had three matches. Here, he had a total of 43. Other NXT alumni started showing up, giving us a love triangle between Derrick Batman, Johnny Curtis, and Maxine. This gave us a hilarious bit where Curtis assaulted Matt Striker with a chloroform rag and dragged him away. Maxine asked why he had chloroform and he shrugged, “Why wouldn’t I have chloroform?” Pros Yoshi Tatsu and Tyson Kidd had a feud based around Tyson stealing the leg from Yoshi’s beloved action figure of himself. Strange as it was, it at least meant the two would have awesome matches over it. The show kept going and going and eventually they stopped talking about the competition itself. It wasn’t until WEEK FIFTY-NINE that Titus O’Neil and Darren Young left the show so they could be a tag team on SmackDown. That left Derrick Bateman, who was the unofficial winner by default. I guess. While the first season of NXT had 15 episodes and the following three had 13, NXT Redemption kept things going with 67 episodes. It lasted longer than the first four seasons put together. Then it just quietly ended once WWE decided to make a new NXT out of FCW and their roster. AFTERMATH Byron Saxton stopped wrestling and instead became an incredibly dorky commentator. Maxine did not last long in WWE and found an identity in Lucha Underground as Catrina. There, she was a ghost woman who accompanied Mil Muertes and would regularly lick his victims post-match. For a brief time, she was the show’s authority figure. She had an entire one match on the show, was later resurrected, then was rekilled. Johnny Curtis was repackaged as egotistical dancer Fandango. WWE was really weird about this as he made his in-ring debut at WrestleMania, where he defeated Chris Jericho. Then the next night on Raw, the fans got really into him by singing his theme song and dancing to it. WWE proceeded to gently caress up any buzz this could have had and then started jobbing him out. Fandango started teaming up with Tyler Breeze, a call-up from the next iteration of NXT, who also fizzled out because Vince hates millennials. Conor O’Brien reappeared in NXT as Konnor, part of the Ascension. The Ascension started as a stable, but settled on Konnor and Viktor as two dominant hosses who held onto the tag titles for longer than anyone else. When they finally moved to the main roster, they got poo poo on SO HARD by being treated as insults to Demolition and the Road Warriors' legacies before getting destroyed by Attitude Era tag team wrestlers. The Ascension soon started doing comedy sketches with Breezango (which were brilliant), but the two teams petered out and all four guys are gone from the company. Titus O’Neil and Darren Young remained a tag team for a long time and did all right for themselves as the Prime Time Players. The two were on-again/off-again, including a feud that died before it could go anywhere due to Titus’ awful heel turn promo. Titus had some mild success running his own stable with Apollo Crews, Dana Brooke, and Akira Tozawa called Titus Worldwide. Then he was mostly remembered for tripping on his way into the Greatest Royal Rumble. Otherwise, Titus does a lot of charity and good PR and WWE mainly keeps him around for that. Darren Young went on to be mentored by WWE legend Bob Backlund in one of the more headscratching ideas. Backlund would talk about “MAKE DARREN YOUNG GREAT AGAIN!” and they would have these split screen conversations based around Bob being crazy and old and Young trying to keep up with him. They almost had something going with this, as Darren Young started to snap and go insane like his mentor, but then they dropped it and Young wasn’t long for WWE after that. As for Derrick Bateman? Despite “winning” NXT Redemption, he didn’t show up on the main roster. They fired him. He went off to TNA/IMPACT to become Ethan Carter III, the kayfabe nephew of company owner Dixie Carter. He also started doing a lot of steroids. After leaving IMPACT, he went to WWE and returned to NXT. He was only there for a few months before going to the main roster, where he was immediately put over Dean Ambrose. This was his death sentence. See, Ambrose was coming off a really, really bad heel run and had announced he was leaving the company. He lost to EC3 as punishment, but the crowd was on Ambrose’s side because, well, he’s Dean Ambrose. So he won the rematch and Vince blamed everything on EC3. He never got to say a single word and he only ever shown up on Main Event (which nobody watches) or in the background of group shots, looking like he wanted to die. He was eventually let go, hung around IMPACT again, and now runs Control Your Narrative, the wrestling promotion that is just the laughing stock of the business.
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May 4, 2022 01:57
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BiggerBoat posted:The podcast I listened to also said that the accident had something to do with the Blue Blazer or whatever the name was that Hart was going by having to fasten or do something with his cape and that somehow tripped the release. God drat, the poo poo these guys put themselves through for this profession is something I can't decide is honorable, masochistic or just plain loving stupid. I still don't know how Vince skated on any real consequences for the death. He was told outright how horrifically unsafe the setup was and went ahead anyway
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May 4, 2022 02:47
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BiggerBoat posted:I guess the same way boxers can't sue for getting hosed up in the ring nor MMA guys for getting their loving faces caved in. A professional wrestler is either an employee or a independent contractor though, and acting as some sort of actor/stuntperson. They're under normal employment law, not athletic commission law. You can't normally waive out of workplace safety regulations (e.g. it's illegal for Billy Bob's asbestos removal service to have people work without respirators, even if they all sign "I accept an elevated risk of cancer" waiver)
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May 4, 2022 05:07
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Foxfire_ posted:Boxers and MMA fighters aren't workers though. A boxer in a Los Vegas fight isn't an employee or contractor regulated by employment law, they're an entirely separate category created by separate Nevada state law and regulated by the Nevada Athletic Commission, which sets out stuff you can't waiver out of. Like it's illegal for a fight promoter to do a "We won't stop for any amount of bleeding" match, regardless of how many waivers people sign. The short answer is probably money, obviously. Other than that, IANAL, etc, I would assume that wrestlers are treated as entertainment performers and by virtue of their job having a high risk of injury, wrestling companies are required to have trained medical professionals backstage. Any instance of blood is 'an accident' with an incident report etc. Or much like the WWE's 'Wellness Policy', instances of deliberate blading are treated as 'infractions' against internal policy that carry various punishments associated with them (I am reminded of Punk vs. Cena on the Raw before Wrestlemania 29, where Punk busted out a Piledriver which is verboten to the WWE and just ate the fine because he and Cena thought it would be worth it [and it totally was from a storytelling and pop perspective]). That and a ton of lawyers. They're trained professionals doing a high-risk job, sometimes things happen and I think WWE would argue that they do their due diligence in providing a safe environment.
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May 4, 2022 08:40
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BiggerBoat posted:Oh I realize that. I just didn't know. I don't follow wrestling much and all I know about Jerry is from the Kaufman poo poo, this thread and the 4 or 5 podcasts I ran through. I know that creeps and sociopaths can be incredibly charismatic and friendly seeming and of course it makes sense that Lawler would be a good story teller. Andre was apparently a likeable drunken prick. Supposedly the rest of the cast of The Princess Bride would be coming to set hungover from partying with him all night and not having his alcohol tolerance.
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May 4, 2022 08:52
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Gavok posted:As for Derrick Bateman? Despite “winning” NXT Redemption, he didn’t show up on the main roster. They fired him. He went off to TNA/IMPACT to become Ethan Carter III, the kayfabe nephew of company owner Dixie Carter. He also started doing a lot of steroids. After leaving IMPACT, he went to WWE and returned to NXT. He was only there for a few months before going to the main roster, where he was immediately put over Dean Ambrose. This was his death sentence.  just tragic
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May 4, 2022 09:41
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Andre was apparently a likeable drunken prick. Supposedly the rest of the cast of The Princess Bride would be coming to set hungover from partying with him all night and not having his alcohol tolerance. also, as almost the only person in a position to consistently get away with it, he’d (iirc) regularly push Hulk Hogan’s metaphorical buttons and generally wind him up whenever the chance arose, for his own joy and the general amusement of the locker room. and may God bless Andre Roussimoff for it, wherever he’s chokeslamming fools now
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May 4, 2022 19:02
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SatansOnion posted:also, as almost the only person in a position to consistently get away with it, he’d (iirc) regularly push Hulk Hogan’s metaphorical buttons and generally wind him up whenever the chance arose, for his own joy and the general amusement of the locker room. and may God bless Andre Roussimoff for it, wherever he’s chokeslamming fools now IIRC, there was a story about how, when they were on tour in Japan (before the days of Hulkamania), Hogan was Andre's designated beer fetcher on their tour bus. He would let Hogan know he was ready for a fresh beer by crumpling up the empty can and plinking it off Hogan's head. 
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May 4, 2022 19:59
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Sydney Bottocks posted:IIRC, there was a story about how, when they were on tour in Japan (before the days of Hulkamania), Hogan was Andre's designated beer fetcher on their tour bus. He would let Hogan know he was ready for a fresh beer by crumpling up the empty can and plinking it off Hogan's head. So Hogan never sat down the whole trip then?
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May 4, 2022 20:24
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Foxfire_ posted:Boxers and MMA fighters aren't workers though. A boxer in a Los Vegas fight isn't an employee or contractor regulated by employment law, they're an entirely separate category created by separate Nevada state law and regulated by the Nevada Athletic Commission, which sets out stuff you can't waiver out of. Like it's illegal for a fight promoter to do a "We won't stop for any amount of bleeding" match, regardless of how many waivers people sign. I believe most major promotions have a stunt coordinator on set to okay big spots. I know Lucha Underground did and I think I've heard AEW talk about it. So there's at least some form of covering their rear end in that they can say "yeah this guy dove off a balcony through three sheets of glass, but it was safety glass and there was a crash pad and our stunt coordinator said that's all good." Of course, your local backyard wrestling fed has none of that poo poo, but they also have no money and no publicity. I think they also do fall under the athletic commission guidelines. At least there was a time when AEW and ROH got fined by the Maryland Athletic Commission. Usually, most states just shrug and turn their heads because, gently caress it, it's wrasslin' I don't know how the blood stuff works out or what regs there may be on that. You always see referees put on gloves whenever there's blood, but whether that's some official rule or just to make things look real, or just the ref's choice because ew blood, I dunno.
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May 4, 2022 21:48
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While we're on the subject of Andre & alcohol, here's what he looked like holding a regular can of beer:
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May 4, 2022 22:04
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Just a reminder that as a child Andre used to get driven to school by playwright Samuel Beckett.
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May 4, 2022 22:10
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Here he is with a bottle of wine
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May 4, 2022 22:16
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andre once got so drunk that he passed out in a hotel lobby and no one could move him so they covered him with a piano cover and left him in the middle of the lobby all night lol
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May 4, 2022 22:23
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If modern pro wrestling had never been developed, I wonder what he might have done? Maybe some circus strongman sideshow thing. He couldn't play basketball I wouldn't think. Might have made a hell of a longshoreman given his strength but his back always gave him problems. Andre is so fascinating because he was cursed and blessed at the same time. From all accounts, his day to day life was a nightmare but he parlayed his stature into a money making machine. He couldn't get into a car, use a regular sized fork in a restaurant, or sit comfortably on an airplane but his job required him to all these things constantly. Just signing his name with a normal pen must have felt like he was using a child's crayon. Brushing his teeth must have been a hassle. Picture everything you do every day only doing it with stuff built for a 3 year old. Even trying to picture him just getting laid puts weird images in my head. Can the women that hosed him still walk?
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May 4, 2022 23:29
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I remember watching a bit they did on WWF back in the 80s where Andre went car shopping. He ended up with a bulldozer.
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May 4, 2022 23:34
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BiggerBoat posted:Even trying to picture him just getting laid puts weird images in my head. Can the women that hosed him still walk? The only woman who definitely confirmedly hosed him (the mother of his daughter) died in 2008, so technically no.
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May 5, 2022 00:13
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Tony Atlas once said in an interview that the two wrestlers he always saw getting the most women during his time in the WWWF during the 1970s were Andre the Giant and Lord Littlebrook. When the interviewer asked why that was, he said words to the effect of "the women were curious; how often were they going to get the chance to hook up with a giant or a dwarf?"
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May 5, 2022 00:14
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wesleywillis posted:I remember watching a bit they did on WWF back in the 80s where Andre went car shopping. They did this kind of joke all the time. There was a vignette where Andre went shopping for shoes and the only things that fit his feet were the boxes the shoes came in
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May 5, 2022 00:20
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The Andre story that sticks with me is the time he almost got in a fight with Bad News Allen (Bad News Brown when he was in WWF). They were on a bus with a bunch of other wrestlers in the 80's and as Bad News was drifting off, Andre was drunk and laughingly dropping the n-word in conversation. Bad News got offended and told him to shut up. Andre was buzzed enough to keep starting poo poo. Then Bad News told the driver to stop the bus. He was seen reaching into a bag where some wrestlers figured he was reaching for a gun, but he later claimed he was putting his earrings away. He got out of the bus and told Andre to get out and fight him. Bad News was one of the dudes that Andre knew not to gently caress with (he was in the Olympics for judo), so drunk as he was, he backed off. Bad News was too pissed to sleep that night. In the morning, he cornered Andre and said he wanted to talk to him. Andre figured he was going to fight him, but Bad News told him that he could have jumped him if he wanted to. Bad News explained that using that language was NOT okay and Andre defended himself with, "But I'm Polish and everyone makes fun of my people for that all the time." Bad News insisted that it wasn't the same, especially because he wasn't saying poo poo about the Polish. Andre said he was sorry, but Bad News didn't feel it was sincere. Years later, when the two were in WWF, Andre made amends with Bad News and insisted that he really was sorry about the way he was acting. I don't know how close the two were, but Bad News definitely forgave him. How do I know that? Because in 1992, a month or so before Andre's death, they were involved in a six-man tag match. Andre was in failing health and did a move where he'd sit down on Bad News' chest in the corner. Andre SHAT ALL OVER HIM and Bad News made a beeline for the showers. Afterwards, Bad News shrugged it off because hell, dude was sick. What can you do?
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May 5, 2022 00:50
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BiggerBoat posted:Even trying to picture him just getting laid puts weird images in my head. Can the women that hosed him still walk? Bobby Heenan said that he accidentally walked in on Andre having sex. "I'll never look at a baseball bat the same way again."
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May 5, 2022 00:51
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Animal-Mother posted:Bobby Heenan said that he accidentally walked in on Andre having sex. "I'll never look at a baseball bat the same way again." A line I recall from the "Scummiest Stories In Pro Wrestling" document was someone describing watching Andre have sex "Like a lion raping a rabbit." BiggerBoat posted:If modern pro wrestling had never been developed, I wonder what he might have done? Maybe some circus strongman sideshow thing. He couldn't play basketball I wouldn't think. Might have made a hell of a longshoreman given his strength but his back always gave him problems. Yeah. Andre's curse was that he basically stayed in his small village and never really got ill, so when he actually had a thorough physical he was in his early 20's and IIRC by then the acromegaly that made him grow so drat big was 'terminal' and couldn't be fixed: he'd just keep growing (or warping, in his case) until it killed him, which it eventually did. Compare Paul Wight, who had the same condition, but had successful surgery on his pituitary gland when he was younger to correct it, which is why he's considerably better off at 50 then Andre was just before his death at 46. Cornwind Evil fucked around with this message at 01:11 on May 5, 2022 |
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May 5, 2022 01:06
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There’s a Twitch stream that plays nothing but older WWE shows (~97-05) so I’ve been watching a lot of old shows lately and bringing back a lot of memories. I think Kurt Angle is probably my fav wrestler from that era. Shelton Benjamin the most exciting to watch in PPVs.
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May 5, 2022 04:46
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FCKGW posted:There’s a Twitch stream that plays nothing but older WWE shows (~97-05) so I’ve been watching a lot of old shows lately and bringing back a lot of memories. Can you give us a link please? Seems cool.
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May 5, 2022 22:26
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https://twitch.tv/creative_control Offline at the moment but streams most days. There’s sound clips and interactive stuff that chat does so it can get a bit meme-y but it’s pretty fun.
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May 7, 2022 01:52
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FCKGW posted:https://twitch.tv/creative_control Thanks for this. They're streaming tonight and it's pretty cool. Got to see the big blow off match between Torrie and Dawn Marie. Sure, Dawn may have hosed Torrie's father to death, but at least Torrie won the match!
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May 7, 2022 05:58
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the guy who runs the stream is in the UK iirc so it sometimes goes down at odd hours. Also every few months it will get taken down for copyright claims but pop up again under a new name a couple weeks later
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May 7, 2022 07:13
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FCKGW posted:the guy who runs the stream is in the UK iirc so it sometimes goes down at odd hours. I assume if it gets taken down, I can probably find the new info in the discord
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May 7, 2022 07:21
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pro wrestling loving owns https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO71rAquWIM
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May 7, 2022 18:05
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Elephant Ambush posted:pro wrestling loving owns i knew this would work
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May 7, 2022 18:52
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Elephant Ambush posted:pro wrestling loving owns This is a pro loving click, holy poo poo.
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May 7, 2022 19:19
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Elephant Ambush posted:pro wrestling loving owns Even better, there's a whole slow motion section that happened afterwards https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HueFqZxQzbQ
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May 7, 2022 20:33
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PEPSI for TV-GAME
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Elephant Ambush posted:pro wrestling loving owns This is loving *incredible*
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May 7, 2022 21:52
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I can hear the steam exploding from Jim Cornette's head all the way up in Canada.
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May 9, 2022 05:48
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