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K8.0 posted:Through the first five bosses.
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May 7, 2022 18:41
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RBA Starblade posted:The weirdest thing about Outer Worlds still is that the set the whole game up to look and feel like a Bethesda Fallout game, but made sure to not put any of the fun parts of that in like physics explosions, rag dolls, etc. They went out of their way to have the worst of both worlds. I think that's largely just technical limitations of the Unreal engine. I know I've asked ITT before if there had been any genuine open world RPGs in UE, as I couldn't think of any, but I think few people mentioned 1 or 2 examples. And supposedly UE5 should be a much better "candidate" for such development. And I have absolutely no idea what that second bit means lol. But yea the gear & perks were just the most half-baked boring poo poo. I hope Avowed has more time in the oven to actually be expanded on nicely instead of just "Sword", "Sword Mk2", "Sword Mk3" or uninteresting incremental gains for perks.
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May 7, 2022 18:47
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Lol the second bit was talking about Rogue Legacy
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May 7, 2022 18:51
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HopperUK posted:Lots of people do seem to be enjoying it, though? I'm honestly puzzled - usually a game as bad as you're saying would be like, obviously, clearly bad to everyone playing it. I haven't tried it, going to wait for a deeper sale. Just wondering what the truth of the matter is here. It's probably about whether you like masochism and being forced to play exactly the way the developer wants. There's no question RL2 is designed to try to force you to engage with mechanics that substitute being poo poo for being hard. If you watch someone play the game, it will look stupid easy, but you'll still see them get hit. It's not because they're bad, but because they're fighting the godawful controls and animations. If you like that kind of poo poo, it's probably fun. I like games that let you react and be creative and precise, and RL2 works EXTREMELY hard to stop you from doing that. For example, there are enemies that launch themselves at you, and aside from the very first one they all have mechanics to stop you from bait and punishing this. I mean you still can, it's just veeery slow as you wait for the animation that's designed to hit you if you immediately counterattack them. Almost every enemy has that type of mechanic, where you can't actually outplay them, just outwait them. There are enemies that fill the screen with a lot of projectiles, and they're honestly really trivial to dodge, but because there are so many and they move so slowly, you're forced to play in very specific ways to nullify them. I think the best comparison is Hollow Knight, because that's a game where the mechanics are deeply engaging and drive you to mastery, and the better you get the more the game becomes a blitzkrieg of non-stop aggression as you skillfully nullify everything the enemies can do. This is the exact opposite, almost every single mechanic I will go far out of my way to avoid because they're aggressively anti-fun. The game also has no balance at all. Like an item that will almost never change how many hits it takes you to kill anything except a boss has a similar cost to an item that deletes all projectiles near you every time you land, which is insanely strong for a bunch of classes. And this balance doesn't play out in a fun way like Isaac or some other roguelikes where you'll sometimes get really funny or broken combinations, it's just super boring. Most of the time I don't even bother picking up items because most of them do literally nothing outside of very niche situations and I don't want to sit through the animation it locks you in. The game loves locking you into animations and time wasting traversal for no reason. Every run starts with an unskippable animation, which gets lengthened by one of the unlocks, followed by a load screen, then spawning in an area where on 5/6th of runs you will immediately hit another loading screen. There's no reason for any of that to be the way it is, it's just a giant middle finger from the devs. K8.0 fucked around with this message at 18:56 on May 7, 2022 |
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May 7, 2022 18:52
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Artelier posted:Think you linked the wrong video, was expecting goon gameplay but got a nice looking trailer instead! But it did convince me to check Unsouled out regardless Here's me dying instead: https://youtu.be/Wa13xre5WNE
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May 7, 2022 19:05
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:And I heard Chaos Gate is written by Aaron Dembski-Bowden, who nailed Grey Knights in The Emperor's Gift, so it's good Grey Knights content. I read one of his Night Lords books and remember nothing about it
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May 7, 2022 19:10
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GreenBuckanneer posted:I read one of his Night Lords books and remember nothing about it By the standards of Warhammer novels this is objectively a pro
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May 7, 2022 19:13
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Outer Worlds was okay at best but I think anyone who says it constantly paints the corporations in a sympathetic light didn’t actually play it  . You can ignore everything their lackies say and gently caress them over at every turn if you want to. You might as well say that Obsidian are fascist and slaver sympathizers because you can join the Legion in New Vegas if you want and a few characters have a few lines to the effect of “Well at least the Legion killed all the raiders and bandits and let me do business in their territory.”
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May 7, 2022 19:16
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K8.0 posted:This is the exact opposite, almost every single mechanic I will go far out of my way to avoid because they're aggressively anti-fun. I think I found your problem; you're actively not engaging with the game's systems then getting upset you can't. You should probably just put it down if you don't like any of it!
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May 7, 2022 19:18
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A Take: bait & punish combat gameplay is boring as gently caress even when it's mechanically optimal
Ciaphas fucked around with this message at 20:06 on May 7, 2022 |
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May 7, 2022 20:02
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Ciaphas posted:A Take: bait & punish combat gameplay is boring as gently caress even when it's mechanically optimal Oh I agree, my point is that they even tack extra steps on to it. In a multiplayer game it's sometimes necessary to design things that way, but in a single player game aggression should always be optimal. In combat, doing things is more fun than not doing things, and multitasking should be rewarded. That's why locking down player movement constantly and making it super limiting is so bad, because it reduces the feeling of player agency.
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May 7, 2022 20:11
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Ciaphas posted:A Take: bait & punish combat gameplay is boring as gently caress even when it's mechanically optimal It's not possible to play Rogue Legacy like this because you can't bait the AI like you can in a Dark Souls or something.
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May 7, 2022 20:17
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HopperUK posted:Lots of people do seem to be enjoying it, though? I'm honestly puzzled - usually a game as bad as you're saying would be like, obviously, clearly bad to everyone playing it. I haven't tried it, going to wait for a deeper sale. Just wondering what the truth of the matter is here. I think reading back on this thread you'll find that the majority of posters who played thought it's a good and fun game. But I guess it just doesn't connect with everyone, which is totally fair
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May 7, 2022 20:22
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K8.0 posted:Oh I agree, my point is that they even tack extra steps on to it. In a multiplayer game it's sometimes necessary to design things that way, but in a single player game aggression should always be optimal. In combat, doing things is more fun than not doing things, and multitasking should be rewarded. That's why locking down player movement constantly and making it super limiting is so bad, because it reduces the feeling of player agency. i've only just beat the boss of axis mundi and the first couple scars a few times, so it's possible I ain't seen poo poo yet, but it's never felt at all to me like RL2 is asking me to wait out attacks; i've been playing mad aggro & reactionary and had a whale of a time doing it so far. i'll be disappointed if that does change later, we'll see (on the subject of mad aggro: dragon lancer is stupid good fun & feels real powerful to use)
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May 7, 2022 20:48
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K8.0 posted:It's probably about whether you like masochism and being forced to play exactly the way the developer wants. There's no question RL2 is designed to try to force you to engage with mechanics that substitute being poo poo for being hard.
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May 7, 2022 20:58
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Kibayasu posted:Outer Worlds was okay at best but I think anyone who says it constantly paints the corporations in a sympathetic light didn’t actually play it Are you sure you played the game? The message of the game, regardless of choice, is quite literally "evil corporations might be bad, but they're at least on par with, if not better, than the alternatives". Without exception, your choices are always between "corporation" or "non-corporation, but with enormously bad consequences" On Edgewater, the non-corp choice is secretly using corpses to grow food, and if put in charge she becomes a dictator who takes revenge on everyone who wronged her and runs the town into the ground. On Monarch, the leader of the Iconoclasts is a literal terrorist who worked with pirates to orchestrate a massacre so that he could take over. It's possible to replace him with Zora, who is only slightly less reprehensible, but you have to literally side with her on every issue or she'll refuse to negotiate and you get railroaded into the 'genocide the other side' option. The Legion works in New Vegas because it's set in a post-apocalypse. You can imagine how a fascist slaver could arise in those circumstances. It's even possible to entertain the notion that, assuming all these post-war governments are transitional and will be replaced regardless, that maybe Caeser's way of doing things has some benefits over the NCR repeating the same mistakes as the pre-war government Whereas nothing in the Outer Worlds makes any sense. The writers badly misunderstood why and how corporations can be evil, but worse, they have *absolutely no idea* what the other side looks like
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May 7, 2022 21:03
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Kibayasu posted:Outer Worlds was okay at best but I think anyone who says it constantly paints the corporations in a sympathetic light didn’t actually play it It doesn't paint anyone in a sympathetic light, that's the problem. It wanted the weird south park libertarian "both sides" thing so when you tell the company town boss to eat poo poo for wanting to work people 100 hours a week your only option is to side with the former corpo who lost her poo poo when her son didn't get a special exception, and who is killing people and using them as fertilizer to grow food in the "free" camp. In fact, the context of the game presents the corporation choices as arguably better in some ways because they present the characters who want things like "weekends" and "sick time" as deranged lunatics living in a fantasy world. pentyne fucked around with this message at 21:18 on May 7, 2022 |
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May 7, 2022 21:15
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Ciaphas posted:how much have you played through They patched out vertigo already because everyone hated it so much.
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May 7, 2022 21:39
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StarkRavingMad posted:They patched out vertigo already because everyone hated it so much. sanity prevails! i wondered how i hadn't seen it in a while Ciaphas fucked around with this message at 21:42 on May 7, 2022 |
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May 7, 2022 21:40
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Ciaphas posted:sanity prevails! i wondered how i hadn't seen it in awhile Yeah. I've been really enjoying RL2, and I didn't like the first one very much. I haven't beaten it yet, though, I'm only past five bosses I think. I feel like the traversal is way better than the first; chaining air dashes and spin kicks feels good. It is a game that kind of baits you into wanting to play fast when you have to be more careful at times, but I don't mind that. I did knock the difficulty down via the "house rules" menu for one of the bosses since I felt like the alternative was just to do some grinding for more health/damage and I wasn't in the mood for that.
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May 7, 2022 21:46
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i went back and looked at the final boss of the first game and good grief it looks rough, no wonder i barely remember anything of it
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May 7, 2022 22:15
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StarkRavingMad posted:It is a game that kind of baits you into wanting to play fast when you have to be more careful at times, but I don't mind that.
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May 7, 2022 22:18
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GreenBuckanneer posted:I read one of his Night Lords books and remember nothing about it the Night Lords books are pretty loving great, the depressed coward sons of batman were wonderfully awful
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May 7, 2022 23:08
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outer worlds story was something I was so weary of even thinking about in a real world context, there was absolutely no chance I wanted to engage with ruminating about it in a game meant to entertain that they seemingly bungled their take on it doesn't entirely surprise me given how they talked about it pre release
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May 7, 2022 23:25
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pentyne posted:In fact, the context of the game presents the corporation choices as arguably better in some ways because they present the characters who want things like "weekends" and "sick time" as deranged lunatics living in a fantasy world. Christ, I'd take Bethesda's grade school fallout stories over that 10/10 times. Like it somehow manages to poo poo on FNV *more* than FO4 did.
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May 7, 2022 23:31
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outer worlds, aka the reason outer wilds' unofficial subtitle is "no, not that one" only thing of worth i ever saw come out of it was this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvANy49Kqhw
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May 7, 2022 23:54
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I think some of those issues were part of Obsidian's quest philosophy which to some extent likes having Difficult Choices between two factions where there's no easy answer except it kind of sucks when that means you have to come up with reasons that the non-corporation ones are "bad" also it just totally lacks any ambition. Hopefully the second one is nicer
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May 7, 2022 23:58
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Delta V: Rings of Saturn is really good. You may already own it if you bought the Ukraine bundle. It's a fairly realistic space mining game. Stuff obeys Newtonian physics to an absurd degree. Your center of mass shifts around as you burn propellant or the ore in your hold bounces around, and this changes how your thrusters cause you to move around, often giving you unwanted rotations and such. The only way to slow down after accelerating is to give RCS or thrust in the other direction, which is accurate physically. It sounds a bit like clunky like QWOP but it's not, because your ship has autopilot functionality to help you fly in a straight line, maintain a velocity/bearing with respect to the rings or some target object, etc. The components of your ship can take damage if you bump into stuff/get shot at by a pirate, and that includes the computer that runs your HUD and autopilot. Your ship's computer can also shut down for a few seconds if you totally drain your ship's power, which is fed by a nuclear reactor and stored in a big capacitor. Overloaded/leaky/shot-by-lasers reactors can heat up which improves their power output, but beyond a certain threshold they melt down and explode catastrophically. The primary game loop is that you fly around the rings shooting ice, and small amounts of ore fly out. You can target a piece, lock on and fly it into your hold, after opening up your cargo hold. It kinda looks like your ship eats the ore. It helps to install some baffles so that your other ore doesn't just fly out if it's shifted around. Once your hold is full (or you're low on propellant, mass driver ammo, whatever) you head back to the station and get space bucks to spend at the company store, where you can resupply, buy new equipment (drones or a big rear end arm to help get the ore into your hold, various weapons, different types of thrusters, or even a new ship) and repeat. Occasionally you fight off a pirate, solve a mystery, salvage a wreck, collect a bounty, bribe the space cops, etc. The rings themselves are astronomically huge and would take many hours to fly through manually, but there's a sort of fast travel where you can navigate to a remembered waypoint for free, or start a 'dive' anywhere you like, for a fee. I really like it.
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May 7, 2022 23:59
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 eh
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May 8, 2022 00:05
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Feels Villeneuve posted:I think some of those issues were part of Obsidian's quest philosophy which to some extent likes having Difficult Choices between two factions where there's no easy answer except it kind of sucks when that means you have to come up with reasons that the non-corporation ones are "bad" IIRC, they went back and 'balanced' the choices so that it wasn't purely "corpo = bad". I think the Edgewater Mayor genuinely caring about his employees was something added as part of this.
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May 8, 2022 00:07
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I just finished Dropsy. It was good. Then when it went back to the main menu I hit continue and it put me at a point after I lost my three animal companions. Is there a way to do all the stuff I haven't done yet without doing the whole game over again? Like getting all the book pages? Also, how do I get past the door behind the turret in the mines? I assumed I would do so as part of the ending sequence but I didn't. Ariong fucked around with this message at 00:32 on May 8, 2022 |
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May 8, 2022 00:29
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I retrospect I think Outer Worlds just stumbled right out of the gate by taking an extremely serious and controversial topic like workers' rights/corporate overreach/what it's like to live beneath The Bottom Line and using it as the basis for a saturday morning cartoon world where literally everyone regardless of any affiliation is absolutely brain-dead moronic and totally incompetent. Every single character is Peter Griffin levels of stupid, and it just doesn't feel good to play a game that paints a picture of the struggle between the worker and the boot but then depicts the worker as too dumb to know what's best for them (which is the boot, the boot is what's best for them according to outer worlds) It's like making a light-hearted cartoon comedy about a superhero squad that fights supervillain school shooters and every supervillain origin story was about how much they got bullied. deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 00:59 on May 8, 2022 |
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May 8, 2022 00:51
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Nephthys posted:IIRC, they went back and 'balanced' the choices so that it wasn't purely "corpo = bad". I think the Edgewater Mayor genuinely caring about his employees was something added as part of this. And they dropped the ball tremendously on that. The mayor basically knew his life and livelihood depended on keep the company town functional, and if it stopped everyone would be left to starve and die. It still painted him as a gomer pyle-esque dumdum who believes in the noble purpose of the Canning Company instead of a miserable jaded cog with the self-awareness of being a cog but that he had literally no options besides cog it up or die. He's actually justified in the decision that ends up creating the radical leader, that he has to ration medical supplies and no one gets special treatment, even a Corp Asst. Manager with a sick kid. Spoilers, but the leader of the 'resistance' was literally a manager who threw a tantrum the moment she didn't get to abuse the system and left to join the labor rights 'terrorists' and preach about how much they deserved humane treatment. Like the alternative doesn't need to be "kooky evil people on the labor side" it could just be lovely outcomes and incremental progress that still hurts people. Outer Worlds is like a slightly better version of Bioshock Infinite in that it least doesn't engage in some extremely questionable racism and racial undertones to the whole thing. pentyne fucked around with this message at 01:22 on May 8, 2022 |
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May 8, 2022 01:15
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The dumb dialogue options for playing a low int character were funny enough to get me through like ten hours before the boring combat made me drop it
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May 8, 2022 01:38
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Man, I have no idea how you guys remember anything about the Outer Worlds. That game just didn't even register for me, went right through my brain and evaporated into nothing. I thought there were bits I liked but I can't recall what they were.
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May 8, 2022 02:48
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Yea I can't even recall games I do enjoy as well as you all do games you don't enjoy 
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May 8, 2022 03:05
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Outer Worlds just came out at 100% the wrong time in history and was crushed under the weight of multiple types of expectations. I played through it last year because the DLC was like 1 dollar and it was a fun "B" game with multiple smile out loud moments.
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May 8, 2022 03:09
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At the place I worked when it came out, I told someone I was a big fan of Fallout: New Vegas and they decided that meant I was their friend to talk to about video games, because they thought Fallout 4 is the greatest game ever made. When Outer Worlds came out they tried to start a conversation with me on several occasions by asking if I had played it and saying it was incredible, maybe even better than Fallout 4. I was asked to explain what I hated about it enough times commit it to memory
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May 8, 2022 03:12
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Maybe some nuances of their characters flew over my head but I liked the plotline with the mayor of the first town and the rebel lady. I really like how it seemed like he was a corporate stooge, but really he just cared about the people of the town and thought Spacer's Choice had their best interests at heart because he bought into the propaganda he was fed his entire life. Once you convince him that putting the rebels in charge will be better for the people of the town, he just packs up and leaves, even though he knows he'll end up dead. I don't remember the lady being abusive or tyrannical, just that she really hated the mayor and wanted him dead or gone before she would come back.
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May 8, 2022 03:15
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Iron Lung was a fun little horror game by the guy who did Dusk. The premise is that you are a prisoner welded into a submarine who is tasked with surveying an ocean made of blood. You can’t see anything so you have to navigate using only a map and coordinates and like a, sonar camera I guess. It’s not amazing or anything but it was different and only 5 dollars.
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May 8, 2022 03:21
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