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imo Berserk Deku was one of my favorite arcs of the last year. Nothing beats Deku vs Shigaraki at Jaku though
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May 7, 2022 19:44
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The whole Shigaraki vs Everyone fight was hype as gently caress, probably the best in the series in terms of action and sheer spectacle from when he wakes up to AfO touching Deku. I agree that Deku going nuts and beating the piss out of him in the sky was the best part though.
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May 7, 2022 20:25
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Nephthys posted:The whole Shigaraki vs Everyone fight was hype as gently caress, probably the best in the series in terms of action and sheer spectacle from when he wakes up to AfO touching Deku. I agree that Deku going nuts and beating the piss out of him in the sky was the best part though.
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May 7, 2022 21:21
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As good as that part was, MHA went wrong a bit before it, IMHO. The whole Raid arc was already a bit too rushed and had a bunch of pretty big missteps, like giving Shigaraki AfO powers, or the way Mirio returned. If there even is a singular point where "MHA went wrong" its probably shortly after the end of the Villain arc.
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May 7, 2022 21:38
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I don't agree that MHA 'went wrong' at all. It can be said that it's moving faster than some people like but as pointed out, it could just be that Horikoshi doesn't want this to turn into his lifes work. The series is 7 1/2 years old already afterall. The pacing may be rushed but it doesn't ruin the whole series or anything, we're still getting good stuff outta it.
Nephthys fucked around with this message at 22:05 on May 7, 2022 |
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May 7, 2022 21:54
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Nephthys posted:I don't agree that MHA 'went wrong' at all. It can be said that it's moving faster than some people like but as pointed out, it could just be that Horikoshi doesn't want this to turn into his lifes work. The series is 7 1/2 years old already afterall. The pacing may be rushed but it doesn't ruin the whole series or anything, we're still getting good stuff outta it. The power creep is garbage, and I wish this genre would stop doing it. Also the tonal shift from hero school to edgy war bullshit is also crap. Mymla fucked around with this message at 22:57 on May 7, 2022 |
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May 7, 2022 22:52
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Even though ending with a hero vs villain mass slobberknocker is how all superhero stories tend to go it's probly the most boring way they tend to go.
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May 7, 2022 23:40
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i just don't super care about the narrative arcs i guess. all might was cool in an action sense when he fought but i was very invested, each time he was on screen, in the idea that he's a rapidly fading superstar barely holding it together. hori did excellently with imbuing the scenes where he fights, particularly the afo fight, with a larger than life feeling and you can't help but wonder what will happen, becuase it's very possible that a character like him dies in a series like this. i'm sure deku will have some great moments in the end here so i'm reserving judgment but yeah, barring the everyone vs shigaraki stuff when i seriously didnt know what was going to happen i just can't get too invested here fsr
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May 7, 2022 23:52
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Carlosologist posted:imo Berserk Deku was one of my favorite arcs of the last year. Nothing beats Deku vs Shigaraki at Jaku though That was like 2 chapters, what arc lol
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May 8, 2022 05:29
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tbp posted:i just don't super care about the narrative arcs i guess. all might was cool in an action sense when he fought but i was very invested, each time he was on screen, in the idea that he's a rapidly fading superstar barely holding it together. hori did excellently with imbuing the scenes where he fights, particularly the afo fight, with a larger than life feeling and you can't help but wonder what will happen, because it's very possible that a character like him dies in a series like this. Semi-relatedly, this reminds me that something else that I liked about the War arc was how unpredictable it was. No-one expected it to escalate quite as much as it did and for a long time it looked like the whole League would be caught and have to break out of Tartarus.
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May 8, 2022 08:02
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TheKingslayer posted:This is pretty much where I'm choosing to believe the series ended. That'd only be a good or worthwhile ending if this was All-Might's story, and the anime leading up to United States of Smash wouldn't be a good All-Might story. It was a great moment, sure, but it's only as good as it is not just because of what happened in the moment, but also what it meant for Deku's story. Otherwise it's just "man gives last of his power to
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May 8, 2022 11:08
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All Might’s mini-story and Deku’s bigger story would’ve ended better if All for One hadn’t stuck around so long past his expiration date. I’m hot and cold on a lotta the stuff that happened post my villain academia but the worst by far was AfO elbowing his way back into the narrative.
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May 8, 2022 17:53
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TheHan posted:All Might’s mini-story and Deku’s bigger story would’ve ended better if All for One hadn’t stuck around so long past his expiration date. I’m hot and cold on a lotta the stuff that happened post my villain academia but the worst by far was AfO elbowing his way back into the narrative. It all feels so backwards from what his bit was setting up in the UNITED STATES OF SMASH era. He says "Oh man All might it would have been better for our protege's if we just both died there" and even into the MVA arc where if setting up Shirageki to become his own new villain. Now it's all "OOps nope all 3 moments of characterization we had for this antagonists were straight up lies here's some bullshit blood quantum soul possession nonsense." AfO as a character just kind of sucks outside of that 'weirdly earnest yet totally evil mentor' figure his early appearances were so this turn of events just blows. Also the 'berserk Deku' part of the fight sucked because it was the precursor to the whole "Two action figures god-modding power combos" dogshit the major encounters have devolved into. Yeah the ping pong poo poo was funny but it wasn't worth the poo poo before during and after the fight. I've said it before but MVA's big power up for Shirageki should have been the range upgrade and getting a big gang. That's enough to make him a society level threat. Adding on to that an undefinable amount of powers from AfO just makes it messier and shittier. Much like Deku's 8 Powers poo poo it's an unnecessary escalation on top of an escalation. It's a comically large hat sitting on top of a normal hat. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 19:06 on May 8, 2022 |
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May 8, 2022 19:01
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I mean, AfO taking over Shigaraki (and also giving him AfO in the first place) was set up during the United States of Smash/Villain Raid arc. He literally discusses the fact that Best Jeanist's quirk is not worth giving Shigaraki. Maybe not the taking over bit, but giving Shigaraki more quirks was always clearly in the plans and if you believed for a second All for One was actually trying to be a good mentor and wasn't just doing everything he could to maintain personal power/satisfaction then I dunno. It seemed pretty obvious to me even then that at some point AfO was gonna mind whammy Shigaraki as a mechanical version of the existing total life control he's employed and to give Izuku something to actually fight. It's literally Bakugo and the Slime Villain. Same as Izuku getting more quirks from OfA. Now whether those have been good or not (personally I think they're fine, they're largely all utility things anyway not direct combat applications outside Izuku using them intelligently which is a thing people wanted him to do to begin with and easier to maintain than thinking clever with raw overwhelming strength). Shigaraki and Izuku as two instant death one touch fighters would've sucked just as much as the current thing and that's what they were without the increased quirks. For what it's worth, I don't think either upgrade has been handled well. But they kind of needed to be there because we've seen what is effectively original Shigaraki vs Izuku. It's Overhaul (I touch you you die) vs Izuku.
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May 8, 2022 19:18
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I don't mind One for All having multiple quirks, but the quirk ghosts are a bit lame
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May 8, 2022 19:27
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Lord_Magmar posted:I mean, AfO taking over Shigaraki (and also giving him AfO in the first place) was set up during the United States of Smash/Villain Raid arc. He literally discusses the fact that Best Jeanist's quirk is not worth giving Shigaraki. Yeah the getting multi quirks was set up, the blood quantum brain possession, the thing I was talking about wasn't. And my point is even if it was set up, the multi-quirk poo poo sucks and deflates basically anything interesting about the fights and should not have happened in general because the whole "OH now he has an army of like minded figures AND just got a massive spike in power with his personal super power" getting immedietly usurped with "And now he has every power the writer could need to pull out of his as" is bad writing and stupid. And boring. Add to that it's also overwriting Shirageki's personality (and relationship to the rest of the antagonist cast) with a much more boring villain's it just deflates any amount of interest I could possibly have had in any of the villains, which is weird after they spend like 3 arcs building that up. And like, it's the most obvious choice on top of all this so why not have it go somewhere interesting that also lets your keep your loving antagonist group you've spend time setting up? Have this secretly be AfO's plan but Shirageki stops it or overcomes it and really takes over, literally anything to give this some personality. Hell that'd make Deku's whole stance on "I can save him!" much more difficult because it isn't turning the antagonist into being a victim of possession by someone who is effectively Satan in this setting. Or just not have it at all and let the central thesis of the parallel between Deku and Shirageki continue and let AfO have literally any depth to him by making his interest in passing on the world to this new generation of villains genuine. And the Overhaul thing is right, the writer probably shouldn't have followed up Shirageki with a new major antagonist who's powers were basically the same but stronger. That was also a gently caress up. "Well they set it up..." doesn't mean it's not loving bad writing. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 19:41 on May 8, 2022 |
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May 8, 2022 19:32
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Lord_Magmar posted:I mean, AfO taking over Shigaraki (and also giving him AfO in the first place) was set up during the United States of Smash/Villain Raid arc. He literally discusses the fact that Best Jeanist's quirk is not worth giving Shigaraki. yes, that was always in the cards, it was just the worst and most predictable path to take things. much like how it was left an open question if bakugo would end up betraying the heroes and the story went in a much better direction instead. this time it took the worst direction all for one worked as a twisted mirror of all might's mentorship. he has nothing else going for him otherwise. he's a force of motiveless malice with no origin, no direction, and no room to grow. shigaraki's parallel growth with midoriya was one of the manga's central underpinnings for its first, better half, and then after MVA it all collapsed into a year-long punchup (awful arc, too, no sense of actual struggle on either side, it was a one-sided rout against the villains until shigaraki woke up and immediately did a 180) followed by AfO usurping the collective identity of the manga's antagonistic half. all the characters we'd gotten to know shoved aside for a guy who wants to be evil, because he's evil. puerile
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May 8, 2022 19:32
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Lord_Magmar posted:I mean, AfO taking over Shigaraki (and also giving him AfO in the first place) was set up during the United States of Smash/Villain Raid arc. He literally discusses the fact that Best Jeanist's quirk is not worth giving Shigaraki. AfO is a way more memorable and engaging villain if you take his attitude towards Shigaraki early in the series as perfectly genuine, where he truly wants to help Shigaraki learn and grow and become a more effective villain out of a twisted sense of paternalism. As for what personal satisfaction he's getting out of the deal, he basically turns into the camera and says it during the Kamino fight - he's having a wonderful time causing All Might emotional anguish by turning Nana's child into a monster. "Evil demon overlord who acknowledges he's past his expiration date but is seriously raising a successor to spite his rival" is a somewhat unique character take. "Evil demon overlord who is raising a successor to bodysnatch them" is way more boring.
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May 8, 2022 19:38
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The whole AfO body snatching Shigaraki thing has been weird because he's not completely taken him over and Shiggy is still seemingly in control most the time, but also during the Star and Stripe fight they tried to make it sound like their personalities were slowly combining and were becoming a brand new person, but it really doesn't feel like it.
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May 8, 2022 19:54
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Rhonne posted:The whole AfO body snatching Shigaraki thing has been weird because he's not completely taken him over and Shiggy is still seemingly in control most the time, but also during the Star and Stripe fight they tried to make it sound like their personalities were slowly combining and were becoming a brand new person, but it really doesn't feel like it. Yeah, it reads like Shiggy hated AFO and then they fused and now Shiggy is just cool with AFO again.
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May 8, 2022 19:57
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:Yeah, it reads like Shiggy hated AFO and then they fused and now Shiggy is just cool with AFO again. It’s almost certainly the set up so Izuku has a thing to actually fight and defeat as a representation of AfO’s control over and abuse of Shigaraki’s life. Like, that’s the point of the possession, it’s been a well guessed end point of Izuku’s character and personality that he would save Shigaraki from AfO in some manner and this is the method through which the metaphor/theme meets the action. It’s been a shockingly consistent visual language used at least 3 times so far. Bakugo and the Slime Villain, Eri and Overhaul, Shigaraki and All for One. You don’t get to decide who is worth saving, you save everyone, that’s the heroic thing to do. Note, this does not mean Shigaraki will get to go free or anything silly like that. Bakugo and Endeavour both show that Horikoshi is willing to have people suffer the consequences of their life choices. I imagine Shigaraki will be imprisoned for a long time, but critically he will no longer have the shadow of All for One both literally and metaphorically destroying his humanity.
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May 8, 2022 20:03
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I get why Hori had All for One literally posessing Shiggy but narratively I think it's not as strong as what was set up previously and pretty redundant to the theme. We already saw how All for One absorbed Shigaraki into his plans and manipulated the kid into becoming a mass murderer, and it was much more effective when All for One's hold on Shiggy was entirely psychological and not literal. Now Shigaraki's agency has been completely stripped from the scenario and there's a convenient cartoonish villain to beat the poo poo out of instead of grappling with the much more difficult task of getting through to a guy who's been completely and hopelessly radicalized. I even get why he gave Deku and Shigaraki a smorgasbord of quirks to pick from, but again it was just more interesting to me when Shigaraki was a danger that couldn't be handled via traditional means. Punching the poo poo out of him. Before he got all those quirks punching the poo poo outta him was all Deku could do and taking that off the table (doubly so since Deku doesn't want to kill Shigaraki) would put the climax of the entire story on Deku's abilities as a person and not as a superhero. But yeah, that isn't the kind of storyline shounen titles are made for, so I get why All for One turned himself into a quirk parasite and why 108 quirks were dished out between Shiggy and Deku, it's just not as interesting as what the story had going for it already.
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May 8, 2022 20:40
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Shigaraki and Deku should've instead lost their Quirks but be invulnerable to any and all damage from anyone with a Quirk. Now that would be a twist.
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May 8, 2022 20:50
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Ngl it'd at least be funny to watch everyone stand back while Deku and Shigaraki have an all out battle of wimps.
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May 8, 2022 21:00
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TheHan posted:Ngl it'd at least be funny to watch everyone stand back while Deku and Shigaraki have an all out battle of wimps. Actually the climax of World War Hulk, so there's precedence.
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May 8, 2022 21:37
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Part of the problem with having a bunch of quirks is that it makes it nearly impossible to do a good fight scene. Ideally, the reader should be able to look at the abilities of each person in a fight and, after the fight is over, think "that was a clever and compelling use of the tools we know these characters have." Taken to an extreme, the best examples are stuff like HxH fights. This is slightly less of an issue for Deku since his powers are at least defined now (though his fights still suck), but it's a bigger issue for Shigaraki.
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May 8, 2022 23:10
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Doesn't Deku still have two or three powers we don't even know yet?
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May 8, 2022 23:37
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:Doesn't Deku still have two or three powers we don't even know yet? Only one
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May 8, 2022 23:41
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Deku's basically spiderman with smoke grenades and flying, not exactly the most difficult character to write well in a fight Shigaraki and Shigaraki Senior pull new abilities out as the author decides they should and it's kinda stupid
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May 8, 2022 23:41
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We also got some very obvious set up a few chapters ago all but saying Deku’s final quirk is gonna take a big fat dump on the narrative tension.
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May 8, 2022 23:54
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Jen X posted:Deku's basically spiderman with smoke grenades and flying, not exactly the most difficult character to write well in a fight I agree with this, Deku getting extra quirks has been fine since all of them so far are just support ones that mean that his fights can be more varied than punching harder. The Nagant fight was great: Hiding in the smoke, distracting her with his cloak and then punching straight through a building to reach her was smart and cool. I think by the time he and Deku fight again, Shigaraki could really do with a few panels where he lays out his main combat quirks, ones that he's had a chance to master in the time he's been awake. That way its a fight between two defined power sets. Nephthys fucked around with this message at 00:01 on May 9, 2022 |
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May 8, 2022 23:59
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Deku's smoke bomb quirk feels like the least useful for the final battle, especially since it could potentially block Aizawa/Monoma's line of sight which would be bad for everyone.
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May 9, 2022 00:03
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Maybe Shiggy Diggy will steal Aizawa's Quirk for himself.
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May 9, 2022 00:05
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drat imagine if deku had teammates to help in a fight instead of multiple powers. Maybe someone with some sort of ability to create sticky substance and use them as whips or lassos in a fight or someone who can manipulate your line of sight to evade detection.
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May 9, 2022 00:43
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What if Deku had a friend who frog
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May 9, 2022 00:48
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Imagine Deku
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May 9, 2022 00:53
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Shinjobi posted:Imagine Deku Four Dekus, sitting at the edge of a cliff.
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May 9, 2022 00:58
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Waffleman_ posted:What if Deku had a friend who frog Deku's last power is going to be "Can do anything an amphibian can". But seriously, giving Deku more powers instead of just letting other members of the team that aren't The Bishy 3 and maybe Uravity, also dumb and boring. Especially when like half of them are things his class mates can already loving do.
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May 9, 2022 01:35
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Deku's last power is going to be "Can do anything an amphibian can". his class mates are boring and one-note outside the real characters
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May 9, 2022 01:41
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I saw someone comment that the reason they dislike Deku is because the story opens with him lamenting how all people aren't born equal and how he's an outlier because he doesn't have a Quirk, only to have a Quirk and then immediately assimilate into that society without having any kind of issue with it. I hadn't really thought about that, but it is a rather bizarre thing now that someone mentions it. I haven't really seen any of the movies aside from the second one with Goonami. Has Deku ever had to hang out with any Quirkless would-be heroes in those?
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May 9, 2022 01:42
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