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Mattavist posted:What would the PvE mode even be? Does anyone at Blizzard even have experience designing/developing repeatable PvE modes anymore? They demoed PvE prototypes a couple times in conventions that were something between Warframe missions and Destiny strikes, with talent trees for every character.
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May 8, 2022 18:11
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Good Will Hrunting posted:How could you have any interest in the characters if you don't like multiplayer? How would you have gotten tied to the characters in the first place? The cinematics, the comics, watching other people who are good at the game stream the game, watching OWL, seeing the insane amount of pornography made about the game. So lots of ways.
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May 8, 2022 18:12
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Yes, and it makes a ton of sense to put massive amounts of resources into catering towards that likely extremely small number of people relative to those who bought and played the original game and got into that element and OWL, right? Lmao there's no way someone is justifying the amount of effort being put into PvE by saying "maybe people like the characters!!!" Quote me when the game massively flops.
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May 8, 2022 18:14
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Codependent Poster posted:Also people like the characters and wanna see story stuff with them. This is so funny.
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May 8, 2022 18:19
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Groovelord Neato posted:This is so funny. I get this, because I do love the cinematics. But to use it as justification to put massive resourcing into a PvE when the PvP modes, features, characters, balance, maps, etc have been neglected for so long after the insane popularity they once had and still actually could have it Blizzard did a huge content dump... yikes.
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May 8, 2022 18:21
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Don't people generally like the PVE stuff they do during certain events?? This isn't exactly a real brain puzzler
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May 8, 2022 18:23
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At the time OW came out, Blizzard knew they had a loyal, almost captive audience that routinely buys into that kind of WoW-story softball stuff, and were likely to buy a game they were making no matter what kind of game they made. It's been a very deflating couple of years for Blizzard so it's hard to say if that's true anymore.
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May 8, 2022 18:23
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Macaluso posted:Don't people generally like the PVE stuff they do during certain events?? This isn't exactly a real brain puzzler No? It's bad. It gets stale super quickly.
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May 8, 2022 18:25
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I think making PVE the focus of the thing you pay for when you buy Overwatch 2 makes sense, since they want the multiplayer additions to be a free update. It's just a bit of a headscratcher when you've turned off the content additions for the multiplayer for the last however many years cause now it feels like that needs a lot more attention and it's making this beta land with a bit of a thud that people are coming back after a few years and wondering what the gently caress Blizzard has been up to.
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May 8, 2022 18:27
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Good Will Hrunting posted:No? It's bad. It gets stale super quickly. I completed 3 of the 4 PvE events at their highest difficulties for the completionist achievements. It was a pretty fun and challeneging experience tbh. You might not see it, but the appeal of a PvE shooter with characters that A LOT of people enjoy is there. Whether or not it's now too late to capitalize on OW's popularity is the better question tbh. Had they been able to complete a PvE shooter campaign for OW circa 2018 or something, that likely would've been hugely popular.
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May 8, 2022 18:27
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Also it's like minimal investment to make some half assed PvE maps like they do for events compared to shifting resources to a full-fledged PvE mode. Justifying their decision to put such a heavy focus on PvE because people "like the events" is bafflingly misguided.
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May 8, 2022 18:29
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teagone posted:I completed 3 of the 4 PvE events at their highest difficulties for the completionist achievements. It was a pretty fun and challeneging experience tbh. You might not see it, but the appeal of a PvE shooter with characters that A LOT of people enjoy is there. Whether or not it's now too late to capitalize on OW's popularity is the better question tbh. Had they been able to complete a PvE shooter campaign for OW circa 2018 or something, that likely would've been hugely popular. I don't think the appeal is there, so we disagree there. And even if it is, my argument is that it's loving stupid to put so much resourcing into it when Overwatch is a PvP game, it's popularity came from competitive PvP not some PvE limited time events, and they have neglected PvP for so long.
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May 8, 2022 18:31
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Wheeee posted:Microsoft sees OW2 floundering and in its infinite magnanimity sends 343 over to help Or, if you’re an optimist, Microsoft owns iD and sends them to he… sorry I can’t say that with a straight face.
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May 8, 2022 18:32
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overwatch's popularity came from people wanting to kiss Mei and Genji.
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May 8, 2022 18:32
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Good Will Hrunting posted:I don't think the appeal is there, so we disagree there. And even if it is, my argument is that it's loving stupid to put so much resourcing into it when Overwatch is a PvP game, it's popularity came from competitive PvP not some PvE limited time events, and they have neglected PvP for so long. People like Overwatch largely in part due to the unique characters. You are vastly undestimating just how many people want to ingest ALL THE LORE and explore those characters outside of arena battle poo poo. [edit] Countblanc posted:overwatch's popularity came from people wanting to kiss Mei and Genji. This, basically.
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May 8, 2022 18:33
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Father Wendigo posted:According to leaks, it was L4D with an Overwatch wrap. There's definitely a market for that, but given how B4B is still trying to find it's footing I'm not sure it's as easy as one might imagine. Considering B4B is priced at $80 here, and $50 for an annual pass I'm not surprised. Even if it was from a studio that had good history in the genres I wouldn't pay that much for it.
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May 8, 2022 18:33
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Quite frankly I think anyone justifying pumping this much resourcing into an Overwatch PvE mode in 2023 on the argument of character development or some extremely short-lived events being fun is insane. The Overwatch hype is gone, you have to drum it up again and the way to do that is not a PvE mode. Now if you successfully reboot Overwatch PvP and get the player base excited again, fix the drought and balance issues? Sure, maybe a PvE mode makes sense then. But as your primary focus after years of neglect and a massive exodus of the playerbase?
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May 8, 2022 18:34
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If I could play L4D with Junkrat instead of any of the four losers in that game I think I would've liked L4D more
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May 8, 2022 18:35
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Good Will Hrunting posted:Quite frankly I think anyone justifying pumping this much resourcing into an Overwatch PvE mode in 2023 on the argument of character development or some extremely short-lived events being fun is insane. The Overwatch hype is gone, you have to drum it up again and the way to do that is not a PvE mode. There are more normies than sweaties, and the normies would likely play PvE story modes over having to endure PvP toxicity.
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May 8, 2022 18:36
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teagone posted:People like Overwatch largely in part due to the unique characters. You are vastly undestimating just how many people want to ingest ALL THE LORE and explore those characters outside of arena battle poo poo. What are you basing this on? Popularity of Overwatch porn? The argument for PvP focus has numbers to back up that are very tangible, whereas you're just using anecdotes. If you have some metrics around participation in PvE event season I'd love to see them but as much as people love these characters I'm not buying that the group is big enough to pump millions upon millions of dollars into while totally neglecting PvP and OWL. I'd love to be proven wrong but Blizzard sucks poo poo at making engaging repeatable PvE content so if you're basing the justification for a large scale PvE mode on "people like the characters" I don't have much to say.
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May 8, 2022 18:38
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teagone posted:There are more normies than sweaties Don't agree with this at all, especially not at the height of Overwatch. Numbers will back it up, as will the popularity of OWL. You're just making things up I think?
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May 8, 2022 18:39
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I am talking out of my rear end yes, but I don't think anyone resonable here would say I'm not technically wrong on the basis of what makes Overwatch appealing to the casual gamer outside of the now saturated/overplayed hero-based shooter genre it made popular.
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May 8, 2022 18:41
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It's still, at it's core, a fundamentally different game from the most popular FPS games with classes available right now. Totally different from BRs, very different from Valorant. And that's the basis for my argument. Not building further on that and trying to introduce enough PVP poo poo to get people interested in again, while opting for huge resourcing and trying to hype PVE, while keeping OWL alive, is loving insane.
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May 8, 2022 18:47
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unfortunately OWL is very much more obviously the mistake than PvE, if you're working from day 1 with the benefit of hindsight, but you can't exactly just torch every contract there on a whim lol
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May 8, 2022 18:51
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Good Will Hrunting posted:It's still, at it's core, a fundamentally different game from the most popular FPS games with classes available right now. Totally different from BRs, very different from Valorant. Yeah, my argument is that part of what even makes people bother to play OW PvP at all are the characters.
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May 8, 2022 18:51
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I think if you were the one staring down one of those contracts, you should have realized it was a mistake.
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May 8, 2022 18:52
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Good Will Hrunting I think you are extremely underestimating how much people want PVE stuff over PVP stuff, and how much people liking the characters play into that
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May 8, 2022 18:53
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Macaluso posted:Good Will Hrunting I think you are extremely underestimating how much people want PVE stuff over PVP stuff, and how much people liking the characters play into that This ^, you can only add so much PVP content without the game becoming overly bloated. And I mean, I've played since launch - the PVP content is sort of stagnant to me but I did always enjoy their co-op gameplay. they just werent very fleshed out.
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May 8, 2022 18:55
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That is so untrue. Look at LoL.
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May 8, 2022 19:00
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No use arguing or debating really. Since PvE is the only aspect of OW2 you'll have to purchase we can just come back to this discussion when sales are poo poo.
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May 8, 2022 19:00
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Go look up any fighting game on Steam with achievements and find one that says something like "played one match online". An overwhelming silent majority of people like single player stuff in games.
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May 8, 2022 19:04
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Good Will Hrunting posted:That is so untrue. Look at LoL. League is a weird example considering they have multiple spinoff games, one of them a single player turn based RPG, and music videos, and a smash hit tv show that are born from the love of the characters and not wanting to play League of Legends that doesn't engage with the game at all. And yes I get it, the PVE mode will still be in Overwatch but it's a mode for people that don't want to engage in the PVP, which a lot of people do not want to PVP or would like a break FROM PVP because PVP is so extremely toxic a lot of the time. Good Will Hrunting posted:No use arguing or debating really. Since PvE is the only aspect of OW2 you'll have to purchase we can just come back to this discussion when sales are poo poo. You are being very weird about this
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May 8, 2022 19:06
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Good Will Hrunting posted:No use arguing or debating really. Since PvE is the only aspect of OW2 you'll have to purchase we can just come back to this discussion when sales are poo poo. Don't worry, I'll buy a second copy to make up for your malding.
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May 8, 2022 19:06
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I'm sure there's enough people who want a good fps pve experience that the pve version of ow2 will sell well, but I'm very doubtful its popularity will last. I just don't see blizz being capable of pushing out relevant content and updates fast enough to keep people interested, especially after they get the initial pop of sales and things fall off fast afterwards. People will still like the characters, but that doesn't mean they'll keep playing a stale game. They'll just make more porn or fanfiction or whatever.
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May 8, 2022 19:08
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it's so bizarre to me that weapons and skins are tied together. there's no way that will stay true in OW2 right? it feels so weird compared to every other cosmetic-based game economy i'm used to not being able to mix and match (or even just have unique weapons/etc for events without needing a completely new skin)
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May 8, 2022 19:08
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Good Will Hrunting posted:How could you have any interest in the characters if you don't like multiplayer? How would you have gotten tied to the characters in the first place? The animated shorts and the used-to-be-yearly-until-they-stopped-bothering Archive events that went into characters' backstories and showcased interactions between specific sets of Overwatch and Blackwatch agents. Anyway, this is what we've seen of the PVE gameplay so far, I'd say it's moved further than this but probably more in terms of different enemies and behaviour than significant structure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F_wrBwgx6E This video talks about Hero Missions, new enemy types, and progressions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRj-GotnNaQ
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May 8, 2022 19:10
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Ryaomon posted:Go look up any fighting game on Steam with achievements and find one that says something like "played one match online". An overwhelming silent majority of people like single player stuff in games. The same is true for “finish the tutorial/first level” achievements as well. An overwhelming amount of people buy stuff on steam then never play it. A quick look at the top 10 on steam and only 3 of the games aren’t PvP games(Destiny, Lost Ark, and Elden Ring). While I wouldn’t say PvE/coop games are going to be a flop, I wouldn’t argue that PvE is what most of the OW community wants. I think there’s room for a more casual experience, and I’d love to see what the numbers are for workshop/arcade modes since I think they are more popular that competitive is.
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May 8, 2022 19:11
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Macaluso posted:League is a weird example considering they have multiple spinoff games, one of them a single player turn based RPG, and music videos, and a smash hit tv show that are born from the love of the characters and not wanting to play League of Legends that doesn't engage with the game at all. lmao thinking about the relative viewership and mainstream crossover acceptance for the brand that OWL and arcane got for their respective devs is an extremely telling example. Blizzard, as the kids say, could never.
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May 8, 2022 19:14
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OWL was a mistake, Blizzard should have just leaned heavily into the Saturday Morning Cartoon vibe of OW instead of trying to force a Serious E Sport
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May 8, 2022 19:18
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Yes I'm the malding one, for saying people don't want to give Blizzard Entertainment likely $60 in 2023 for some dogshit single player game that lasts 15 hours based on characters that peaked in popularity in 2017. C'mon now.
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May 8, 2022 19:24
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