|
Megaman's Jockstrap posted:He literally says that this took a different skillset and compared it to finishing a bridge that was over 90% done. But you also can watch the movie and do the Leo Point thing and say "that's a-Raimi!" pretty frequently so overall I'd say he managed to do a good job and get his directorial fingerprints on there. Sam Raimi Rocks! so therefore sam only directed 10% of this movie because i don't understand what analogies are or something
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 15:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 17:30 |
|
|
The World Inferno posted:At least for me they 'did her dirty' by offing her kind of abruptly at the end. Loved everything before that. Like, we don't see her die, sure, but within this movie it just didn't feel like she had an appropriate send-off after this much build up. Was there what, 3 lines of dialogue between when she realized that her boys were scared of her and she decided to destroy the darkhold tower? Theres literally zero chance she's actually dead and doesn't reappear, they don't even show her body. Even if she is "dead" we literally show corpse puppeting in this film, she will be back
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 15:22
|
|
|
Metis of the Hallways posted:I don't really get it as a criticism either. How is it doing a character dirty when you make them the best villain an MCU movie has ever had? Killmonger was the best, because he was right  My issue stems from Wanda's motivation as a villain being a fair bit too emo for me. In her anguish she just comes across as a karen-type? I'm not sure how else to explain it. I really didn't like Wandvision all that much and thought the kids storyline was pretty whatever, so that's largely informing my opinion.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 16:02
|
|
|
teagone posted:Killmonger was the best, because he was right The character who was introduced with literally only her twin brother as her surviving family who died causing her immense grief ,who then got into a found family situation with the avengers who died and/or broke up, who then got into a relationship with a robot man that she was forced to kill to try to save half the galaxy but then that didn't even end up saving anyone, who then found out that the corpse of her loved one was being experimented with to make weapons and stole it and somehow discovered that in other universes she's a mom wanting to have a family connection again at last so she doesn't feel so alone is super bitchy and entitled.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 16:19
|
|
|
I honestly forgot everything that happened in the other Marvel movies wrt Wanda's characterization and really was just going off Wandavision lmao.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 16:23
|
|
|
TheBigBudgetSequel posted:Believing they didn't let Raimi just drench this movie with his own style and sensibilities means you just didn't watch it. poo poo is a straight-up Comic Book movie Evil Dead. I really need you to watch Darkman because this movie has a hell of a lot more Darkman in it than Evil Dead.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 16:27
|
|
|
Some y'all watched WandaVision and forgot how at the end she's balls deep into the Dark Hold. Wanda progressed as a character by the end of the series but the book rewound that back a little, and made it worse because now that lingering grief turned into a heap of jealousy.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 16:31
|
|
|
teagone posted:I honestly forgot everything that happened in the other Marvel movies wrt Wanda's characterization and really was just going off Wandavision lmao. Ultron: Traumatically lost her family, went crazy trying to protect the only family she had left. Civil War: Sides with Cap because of trauma over her lost family. Infinity War: Does everything she can to protect her family, but is traumatized when she has to kill her only remaining family. Endgame: Tries to kill Thanos because he killed her only family. Starts to try and get over trauma of losing family. Wandavision: SWORD manipulates her trauma to cause her to resurrect her dead family, eventually realizes that she is causing trauma to other families through her actions, reluctantly gives up her newly created family. MoM: Tired of losing family, decides to do whatever it takes to get her family back. Her trauma leads her to use unholy means that put the entire multiverse at risk to do so.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 16:32
|
|
|
I think after Moon Knight and this movie I am just about over Marvel titles. That next Thor better kick rear end. I had a bad feeling about Dr. Strange after I finished watching Moon Knight and it was such a wet fart of a show. Maybe if they didn't leak essentially everything "shocking" ahead of time it would have helped. Probably not though because it was a clusterfuck of laser beams and forced character development for someone I and probably most people give zero shits about.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 16:36
|
|
|
I'm shocked. It's almost like you haven't read the thread before you posted.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 16:38
|
|
|
Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Ultron: Traumatically lost her family, went crazy trying to protect the only family she had left. Dom from Fast and Furious would love her I bet. I guess revenge for family is a motivation I've seen plenty of in movies and other media, and it being draped in superheroics with a heel turn isn't interesting to me. I do like the idea of Wanda's rage coupled with her powers makes her like the most dangerous superbeing in the MCU though, that's cool.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 16:42
|
|
|
Wanda's heel turn is weak because it's dependent on a book that they introduced in the last episode of Wandavision and the only thing we know about it is what Agatha told us. They don't show the book manipulating her or anything. It's lazy storytelling just to get the story from point A to point Z. And it's done with a character who the main hero of the show empathized with, which is usually a cue for the audience to empathize as well. Even Dr. Strange tells her it's cool at the beginning because none of the wizards realized she turned cause it was so abrupt.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 16:42
|
|
|
Metis of the Hallways posted:I don't really get it as a criticism either. How is it doing a character dirty when you make them the best villain an MCU movie has ever had? Because they killed her off. Villains killing themselves instead of coming back is the lamest storytelling.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 16:43
|
|
|
This movie isn't without its fair share of problems, but it's probably the first MCU film I've enjoyed since... the first Guardians? Jesus. (Shang-Chi was fun until the third act, and Guardians 2 was an interesting failure). Which surprised me since I hated the first Doctor Strange and haven't liked the character in any of his appearances in the other films. It's that special Raimi touch, baby
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 16:44
|
|
|
live with fruit posted:Wanda's heel turn is weak because it's dependent on a book that they introduced in the last episode of Wandavision and the only thing we know about it is what Agatha told us. They don't show the book manipulating her or anything. It's lazy storytelling just to get the story from point A to point Z. And it's done with a character who the main hero of the show empathized with, which is usually a cue for the audience to empathize as well. Even Dr. Strange tells her it's cool at the beginning because none of the wizards realized she turned cause it was so abrupt. I hate the analogy I am going to use but in Warcraft 3 Arthas goes after Frostmourne and becomes evil. Is it Frostmourne that turns him evil or was he already going down a dark path? The same journey applies here, Wanda took a whole town hostage, kinda meekly apologized and thinks the world owes her for her lovely life (and she isn't wrong to a degree). But in the MCU-verse she isn't the only person who suffered due to Thanos and the snap or lost people. She only gets to do this because she is a powerhouse. Interestingly, if you watched the What If... with Doctor Strange it provides an interesting mirror to Wanda and Strange. That What If... version goes through grief and ends up destroying his universe, having to contain it and is ultimate left alone in the world (later given the task of babysitting another universe as a penance). I feel like I am babbling here, point is that Wanda (much like the heroes she was with) needed to go to therapy instead of punching things or getting drunk but her saviors were too toxic to suggest it.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 17:18
|
|
|
As with Arthas I take it that the evil book and the evil sword gave them the means to do what they want and removed their inhibitions. Which would probably turn most people evil, especially if you're already into loving up towns to achieve your goals.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 17:23
|
|
|
AndyElusive posted:I'm shocked. It's almost like you haven't read the thread before you posted. It's fine not to like something - let people post and move on.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 17:24
|
|
|
Ya no I'm cool with that part. It's the part where they sound like everyone agrees with them that I was poking at.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 17:30
|
|
|
The problem with Wanda is that she goes from sacrificing the things she loves for the greater good and making steps towards healing at the end of Wandavision to being full on herp de derp Evil McBaddie at the start of this movie. And ok yes she's using the Darkhold but Agatha had that book for ages and the most evil things she did was kill a fake dog and set up a boner joke. It's the Daenerys in Season 8 problem all over again, the whiplash of the turn is just too much. If they'd taken the time to show her being corrupted I'd have been totally fine with it but as it is it feels like a betrayal of the character arc she had in Wandavision
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 17:36
|
|
|
AndyElusive posted:Ya no I'm cool with that part. It's the part where they sound like everyone agrees with them that I was poking at. The fact that a certain type of person has to invent imaginary majorities that share their exact opinions is one of those things that took me years to understand and now I see it all the time.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 17:48
|
|
|
My take on Agatha not having gone totally crazy after possessing the Darkhold for so long is that we don't know how much care she took to stave off the ill effects of the book. She was an incredibly adept with from a pretty powerful coven, so she likely had a lot of institutional knowledge about it and how to handle it. Wanda just took it from her after previously having no idea it existed, and apparently Strange didn't know poo poo about it either but dove right in. I have to think Agatha just simply knew more of what she was doing with it and probably knew how to throttle it to make sure she didn't lose herself entirely.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 17:55
|
|
|
Agatha was batshit mad and evil - she just wasn't walking around covered in blood snapping necks because she had no reason to be.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 17:57
|
|
|
Rarity posted:The problem with Wanda is that she goes from sacrificing the things she loves for the greater good and making steps towards healing at the end of Wandavision to being full on herp de derp Evil McBaddie at the start of this movie. And ok yes she's using the Darkhold but Agatha had that book for ages and the most evil things she did was kill a fake dog and set up a boner joke. It's the Daenerys in Season 8 problem all over again, the whiplash of the turn is just too much. If they'd taken the time to show her being corrupted I'd have been totally fine with it but as it is it feels like a betrayal of the character arc she had in Wandavision i haven't watched the tv show or this movie but daenerys was locking people in vaults to starve and cannibalize each other and burning witches at the stake from like season 2. she doesn't even really have a heel turn, she just continues to do what she always did except the other likeable characters don't agree with her anymore. and the show extremely heavily lampshades the whole "crazy runs in the family" thing. people latched onto her endpoint as what they didn't like because it was hard to explain exactly how the show was bad when most people only have the vocabulary to talk about plot
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 18:18
|
|
|
DeimosRising posted:i haven't watched the tv show or this movie but daenerys was locking people in vaults to starve and cannibalize each other and burning witches at the stake from like season 2. she doesn't even really have a heel turn, she just continues to do what she always did except the other likeable characters don't agree with her anymore. and the show extremely heavily lampshades the whole "crazy runs in the family" thing. people latched onto her endpoint as what they didn't like because it was hard to explain exactly how the show was bad when most people only have the vocabulary to talk about plot Arya poisons dozens of Freys while pretending to be Walder Frey, Sansa has Ramsay eaten alive by his dogs, both of them are still treated as good people. Killing bad guys in over the top ways was never treated as a bad thing in the entire series until suddenly they had to pretend it was intended to be all along to try to justify their hamfisted and lazy treatment of Daenerys Piell fucked around with this message at 18:29 on May 10, 2022 |
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 18:24
|
|
|
Piell posted:Arya poisons dozens of Freys while pretending to be Walder Frey, Sansa has Ramsay eaten alive by his dogs, both of them are still treated as good people. Killing bad guys in over the top ways was never treated as a bad thing in the entire series until suddenly they had to pretend it was intended to be all along to try to justify their hamfisted and lazy treatment of Daenerys She burns a slave alive in the first season.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 18:34
|
|
|
definitely the most obvious criticism of the GoT TV series is that it spends the whole series leaning into glorification of violence oriented, might is right societies, to the point where it introduces and kills the PoV character of the books who exists to challenge this notion in a single episode, and then about-faces at the 11th hour to tell you that's not what they were going for at all, and Daenarys' portrayal is definitely the biggest victim. Is it designed by craven liberals who only tut-tut at revolutionary violence? Did they realize how nihilistic the last season would be of they didn't change course? Is it just sloppy and poorly thought out? (Interviews with the showrunners suggest it's this) I genuinely have no idea because those last seasons came together so poorly. the show is bad, who cares.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 19:08
|
|
|
Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I really need you to watch Darkman because this movie has a hell of a lot more Darkman in it than Evil Dead. like, i haven't thought about this too much, but i think it hits 75% of the same story and scene beats haha
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 19:23
|
|
|
I mean, yes I was making a broad assumption and I'll admit that. I'm still pretty sure that it's a safe assumption though, that most people who saw it did not care at all about the random new character they threw in and the stakes were mixed as a result.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 19:41
|
|
|
LesterGroans posted:She burns a slave alive in the first season. Which was portrayed as badass revenge and she comes out of it with dragons
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 19:42
|
|
|
Rockstar Massacre posted:definitely the most obvious criticism of the GoT TV series is that it spends the whole series leaning into glorification of violence oriented, might is right societies, to the point where it introduces and kills the PoV character of the books who exists to challenge this notion in a single episode lol you remember the entire first season as a single episode, which is pretty funny but Ned doesn't die until almost 10 hours into the show. I'm no big fan of the show, which started as an amusing enough night time soap with medieval fantasy gloss, but went on way too long and eventually lost the punchy editing and somewhat above average cinematography it started with and just became a slog. But I think it's pretty absurd to say it's a "glorification" of the society it portrays, it's very straightforwardly about how every single character is a traumatized wreck who becomes more and more hosed up as the story goes on. Piell posted:Arya poisons dozens of Freys while pretending to be Walder Frey, Sansa has Ramsay eaten alive by his dogs, both of them are still treated as good people. Killing bad guys in over the top ways was never treated as a bad thing in the entire series until suddenly they had to pretend it was intended to be all along to try to justify their hamfisted and lazy treatment of Daenerys DeimosRising posted:she doesn't even really have a heel turn, she just continues to do what she always did except the other likeable characters don't agree with her anymore
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 19:43
|
|
|
Grimdude posted:I mean, yes I was making a broad assumption and I'll admit that. Moon Knight rules dude
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 19:43
|
|
|
Wanda crushing herself is very Spider-Man 2 and Spider-Man 2 is the best superhero movie of all time. Also she’s clearly not dead lmao if you loving think she is.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 19:52
|
|
|
Grimdude posted:I mean, yes I was making a broad assumption and I'll admit that. Are you referring to Moon Knight or Wanda or who exactly here? I'm sorry, I've totally lost the thread.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 20:02
|
|
|
Megaman's Jockstrap posted:He literally says that this took a different skillset and compared it to finishing a bridge that was over 90% done. But you also can watch the movie and do the Leo Point thing and say "that's a-Raimi!" pretty frequently so overall I'd say he managed to do a good job and get his directorial fingerprints on there. Sam Raimi Rocks! The quote is Sam Raimi posted:This is an existing series with established characters and a fan base. And the job is to complete mile 16 of a bridge that had been under construction for 15 years. And it takes a different set of skills to do that. It's got to work with what went before. It's got to lead into what's coming. It's got to be handled to hold the same audience expectations that those other films did. Read More: https://www.slashfilm.com/855594/how-much-of-a-sam-raimi-movie-is-doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness/?utm_campaign=clip Sam was involved in the screenwriting process on Sam Raimi posted:Kevin pulled me in for an interview on Doctor Strange 2 and I said to them here’s what I thought of the script, here’s what I think we need to do, so I’d like to move forward if you guys will have me as the director but just know this. And I’ve often run into problems with production teams on this point; I say I need ten storyboard artists starting tomorrow. I need six animators starting tomorrow. I need two character design people starting tomorrow and I’m not exaggerating. Usually, the studio says “we’re not spending that kind of money, we don’t hire this many storyboard artists, you can have one or two”. Kevin leans forward and says “Sam, you’re not gonna have ten storyboard artists, you’re gonna have twenty. And you’re not gonna have three animators, you’re gonna have twelve.” And I thought “oh my gosh, he knows how to do this, of course”. He’s been making these movies, it’s not a new thing for him. He’s taken what we did together and he’s expanded it and this is now a machine, a well-oiled machine, for making superhero movies. So, I was incredibly elated and surprised at how ready they were in the right way to make the movie. https://screenrant.com/doctor-strange-2-kevin-feige-sam-raimi-reunion/ So Marvel provided the team, but Raimi had directorial control over it. Probably had some mandates and couldn't necessarily kill off major characters because they were needed in the next Marvel movie. Sam Raimi posted:It’s like you’re playing a musical instrument for an audience, however good you are, it’s all your tune and just the way you want to play it. Then something like this, although there are restrictions and expectations, it’s like they’re giving you the finest symphony orchestra and saying, “You’re not going to play, yourself, because we’ve hired all the finest violinists, the best percussion, the best brass. But we will let you conduct them.” quote:I think the first responsibility is to tell the story of those characters because this is, like, episode 27. But I think it’s great that filmmakers can do it from their own perspective as long as they’re working within the Marvel box, basically. And it’s a very big sandbox to play in. What they do at Marvel is they really protect the integrity of the characters. So long as you’re doing that and as long as you’re aware of the story elements so you don’t disappoint the fans, I think it’s great that filmmakers in the Marvel Universe exercise their personality and style and tell the story with their own sense of panache. https://indianexpress.com/article/entertainment/hollywood/sam-raimi-on-doctor-strange-and-his-superhero-return-7902149/
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 20:13
|
|
|
Grimdude posted:I think after Moon Knight and this movie I am just about over Marvel titles. That next Thor better kick rear end. Feels like you could have helped yourself by not paying attn or searching out Marvel news about Marvel poo poo? Most people didn't know poo poo about what was going to happen in this movie because they're not massive nerds like all of us that spend their time talking and reading about this stuff. I cut out on going to these threads a week ago and was still delightfully surprised by a couple of developments and cameos.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 20:19
|
|
|
I really can’t find the action scene direction interview. I’ve looked everywhere. But I’m 98% sure he said he fully directed 2 action scenes.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 20:19
|
|
|
If anything its whoever Charlize Theron is playing. I was just like - alright? Should have just done the post-credits scene as it was hilarious.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 20:22
|
|
|
Is the evil Dr strange supposed to be the same one from The what if cartoon or different?
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 20:48
|
|
|
Noob Saibot posted:Is the evil Dr strange supposed to be the same one from The one in the movie was at Christine's wedding. It's a diff one.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 20:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 17:30 |
|
|
Noob Saibot posted:Is the evil Dr strange supposed to be the same one from Different
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 20:53
|
|
