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cheetah7071 posted:that sounds like a lot more effort than the strat that gives the players who want tethers the tethers from the start It really isn’t and the running around thing has hosed me over often enough with janky tether swapping and stealing leaving someone on a tower holding the tether. Minimise movement to maximise success.
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May 11, 2022 08:22
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Lord_Magmar posted:It really isn’t and the running around thing has hosed me over often enough with janky tether swapping and stealing leaving someone on a tower holding the tether. I'm actually not sure what strat you're complaining about here cause the one I'm familiar with has very little movement also Pre-position boss between the two northern towers. People who want towers stack south of boss, people who want tethers stack inside boss. When tethers spawn, everybody who wants one gets one by default without any movement. Then tether people spread along the north wall; plenty of room for two melees to get uptime and there's absolutely no risk of ever bumping into a non-tether person cheetah7071 fucked around with this message at 08:52 on May 11, 2022 |
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May 11, 2022 08:27
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May 11, 2022 08:40
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Doesn't have "your computer/console is a 3rd party tool," 0/10 trash chart
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May 11, 2022 08:46
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ultra widescreen monitors are a third party tool
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May 11, 2022 08:49
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cheetah7071 posted:I'm actually not sure what strat you're complaining about here cause the one I'm familiar with has very little movement also I think I know which one Lord_Magmar means because it's the one that my static does lol, it's: people who want tethers in the middle, people who don't on the towers, people in middle do small circles until all 4 have the tethers, then go out to cardinals.
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May 11, 2022 08:50
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Ibblebibble posted:I think I know which one Lord_Magmar means because it's the one that my static does lol, it's: people who want tethers in the middle, people who don't on the towers, people in middle do small circles until all 4 have the tethers, then go out to cardinals. that does sound awful lol
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May 11, 2022 08:51
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cheetah7071 posted:I'm actually not sure what strat you're complaining about here cause the one I'm familiar with has very little movement also This sounds better than the running around thing yes, the running around thing is the common party finder strategy and I hate that it is. At least on Ravana. I think given the four towers always spawn in the same four spots and you position the boss in the middle for uptime reasons you should in fact just have the T/H rotate one step clockwise onto intercards. The either dps or t/h step in towards boss when the towers spawn, before heading out between the towers.
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May 11, 2022 08:56
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if you pull the boss to a cardinal two of the towers are still in melee range for uptime and if you have a rdm you tell them "lol sorry i know this is exactly when you need to melee combo in your rotation but sod off" as discussed in the thread north towers is a pretty simple strat and its the PF strat on aether at least.
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May 11, 2022 09:02
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the game is built around controllers ergo kb/m are 3rd party tools.
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May 11, 2022 09:04
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Lord_Magmar posted:Love how in a mechanic where 4 tethers and 4 non tethers need to work out how to soak intercardinal towers the solution is for the four people who want tethers to run around the boss like headless chickens instead of doing intercardinal partners and then having the people not soaking towers walk in towards the boss and back out at cardinals.  Northwest person wants to grab a tether from the southeast, yeah? While also making sure not to steal the SW or NE ones because that'll be confusing etc... then they get to southeast, and maybe grab the wrong one of the two tethers, requiring those two to re-adjust to make sure the correct person has it again? Or maybe they did accidentally grab one of the SW or NE tethers, in which case that person has to quickly realize that and be the one to grab the SE tether. It's doable, but seems like it involves plenty of opportunities for something odd to happen and people have to correct on the fly rather than simply doing the same thing every single time. Martman fucked around with this message at 09:12 on May 11, 2022 |
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May 11, 2022 09:06
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Martman posted:Not sure I'm understanding you right, but let's say you start in your intercardinal pairs and then the initial tethers go out like this (since afaik they're totally random at the start).
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May 11, 2022 09:13
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Lord_Magmar posted:This sounds better than the running around thing yes, the running around thing is the common party finder strategy and I hate that it is. If you're on Ravana that's probably because it's the JP pub strat and it got taken along during the migration. Martman posted:Not sure I'm understanding you right, but let's say you start in your intercardinal pairs and then the initial tethers go out like this (since afaik they're totally random at the start). Initial virus debuff/tethers are always 1 T 1 H 2 DPS I think, but your illustrated configuration can still happen with those conditions so no real change there.
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May 11, 2022 09:13
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No I did not consider that possibility, poo poo. Uhhhhh Cheetah’s method works better than mine anyway except for uptime and who cares about uptime. The running around thing is still bad because it can actually miss a tether too if you’re just unlucky on the passes. Maybe I just need a static I can work on strats with instead of doing pubbing 
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May 11, 2022 09:14
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Fiye posted:This is cursed to loving hell  My group did use the running around in circles strat, but that's not to say we were convinced it was the perfect strat or anything. It just reached a point where we basically only failed from people running out to their cardinal directions waaay earlier than they had to. Well, it also probably leads to people spinning their camera and forgetting which direction they're pointing. But as long as everyone blobs together and moves kinda slowly it's pretty hard not to grab all the tethers. Martman fucked around with this message at 09:16 on May 11, 2022 |
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May 11, 2022 09:14
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Lord_Magmar posted:No I did not consider that possibility, poo poo. Uhhhhh Cheetah’s method works better than mine anyway except for uptime and who cares about uptime. my strat is full uptime unless you have three melees
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May 11, 2022 09:14
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cheetah7071 posted:my strat is full uptime unless you have three melees Yes, that would indeed be an additional problem I keep running into as a Sam main (my other max level characters are dragoon, reaper, and an ungeared RDM I suck at playing). I guess the solution to the situation provided with my strat would be the tanks and healers that can easily do the grab or already have a tether run into the middle, and the person with no easy tether goes and grabs the tether across from them before everyone runs out.
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May 11, 2022 09:16
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Sounds like Ravana needs to get more braindead with its strats. Also i don't know why people complain about elmo. It is the perfect strat for party finder in that 1) it requires no variation in positioning and 2) everybody just stacks up so it's very obvious if somebody is loving up.
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May 11, 2022 09:17
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Ibblebibble posted:Initial virus debuff/tethers are always 1 T 1 H 2 DPS I think, but your illustrated configuration can still happen with those conditions so no real change there.
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May 11, 2022 09:17
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Martman posted:You don't like my drawing? Good drawing but good god thinking about executing the strat is making me sweat bullets Martman posted:Nah I'm pretty sure this one is random. In the first part of the fight we had all dps on south and all tanks/healers on north, and we definitely had weird cases where all four tethers started out on dps, or 3 in one direction, etc. I like North tower strat much better since if you know you're going to be a role grabbing a tower you can sit in the middle of the arena w/ everyone who needs a tether sitting in from of them. Once tethers go out the pick up should happen automatically and the tethers can move so they don't kill someone else and unless you're running triple melee DPS everyone should have full uptime. Lord_Magmar posted:Because if anyone does anything wrong on Elmo it kills people, and you get just as easy a strat with having the ranged bait the two bottom tornadoes that also makes it easy to do the black fire mechanics right before hand, healers and melee (d1/d2) north, tanks and ranged (d3/d4) south. Tanks stack together with their tethers and ranged move to bait south tornadoes south. Healer 1 baits north tornado and h2 and melee stack together opposite side. I think that strat is called MYTA and yes its far more consistent and does as much raid damage. Fiye fucked around with this message at 09:23 on May 11, 2022 |
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May 11, 2022 09:18
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CJ posted:Sounds like Ravana needs to get more braindead with its strats. Because if anyone does anything wrong on Elmo it kills people, and you get just as easy a strat with having the ranged bait the two bottom tornadoes that also makes it easy to do the black fire mechanics right before hand, healers and melee (d1/d2) north, tanks and ranged (d3/d4) south. Tanks stack together with their tethers and ranged move to bait south tornadoes south. Healer 1 baits north tornado and h2 and melee stack together opposite side. Does not kill 5 people if something goes wrong. Elmo does.
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May 11, 2022 09:20
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The point of elmo is that any given person does the same thing in every single party they join. Nobody has to wonder things like "wait which tornado am I?" It's the perfect strat for PF in that it minimizes the difficulties inherent of grouping with a new party every week
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May 11, 2022 09:22
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cheetah7071 posted:The point of elmo is that any given person does the same thing in every single party they join. Nobody has to wonder things like "wait which tornado am I?" The version I see in Ravana PF also doesn’t do that, except for D3 and D4. At which point just choose the one you know at the start and discuss with your dps partner if there is a problem. Admittedly Ravana uses (bad at times) macros showing all the mechanics and actions to take. Which is a third party tool and therefor illegal. Elmo killing 5 people if done wrong instead of 1 or 2 is why I dislike it as a PF strat. But I joined Ravana specifically because it was the pre-agreed “hardcore” server for OCE anyway.
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May 11, 2022 09:27
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The eternal problem I see on every tether mechanic is people getting a tether and running out early instead of waiting for the other tether people. This happens so often on p4s and often just leads to them accidentally passing their tether to someone else trying to grab a different one causing an annoying back and forth. Also you tank the boss central during towers in p4s the strat of tanking him at a cardinal is weird wtf
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May 11, 2022 09:27
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Mainwaring posted:The eternal problem I see on every tether mechanic is people getting a tether and running out early instead of waiting for the other tether people. This happens so often on p4s and often just leads to them accidentally passing their tether to someone else trying to grab a different one causing an annoying back and forth. Now the fun thing is in ultimate where the tanks have to pick up a tether. And if the DPS is slow they have to sprint around or they run through and catch the tether and eat a 1m+ tank buster and also they're now not alive for the tower they need to grab GG go again.
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May 11, 2022 09:35
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Lord_Magmar posted:Because if anyone does anything wrong on Elmo it kills people, and you get just as easy a strat with having the ranged bait the two bottom tornadoes that also makes it easy to do the black fire mechanics right before hand, healers and melee (d1/d2) north, tanks and ranged (d3/d4) south. Tanks stack together with their tethers and ranged move to bait south tornadoes south. Healer 1 baits north tornado and h2 and melee stack together opposite side. Sound like that's Tuufless which is the EN-speaking JP standard, which makes sense. I prefer it over Elmo too because it doesn't rely on pixel-perfect tank placement.
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May 11, 2022 09:41
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Ibblebibble posted:Sound like that's Tuufless which is the EN-speaking JP standard, which makes sense. I prefer it over Elmo too because it doesn't rely on pixel-perfect tank placement. Pretty sure it is yes. I just wish that the tower and tether thing wasn’t so crap shoot feeling and had a strat with less movement involved.
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May 11, 2022 09:51
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Does Elmo require precise tank placement? I honestly never learnt the exact place to stand and just stood on the marker and i've never seen a wipe because of it. It's kind of funny if i was close to causing a wipe each time and just happened to pick the correct spot by dumb luck.
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May 11, 2022 09:57
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CJ posted:Does Elmo require precise tank placement? I honestly never learnt the exact place to stand and just stood on the marker and i've never seen a wipe because of it. It's kind of funny if i was close to causing a wipe each time and just happened to pick the correct spot by dumb luck. The main catch with Elmo is that the tanks need to be close enough to the bird to bait two of the proteans, but if they stand too close the southeast tornado that targets them will clip the melee group. But then if they stand too far back maybe two of the melee are closer to the boss than them and the main group eats two proteans from the boss. It's not THAT precise, there is wiggle room. But if you're bang on the marker you're probably edging slightly close general rule of thumb seems to be youre safest on the southern border of the marker. This is why the strats that have a baiter on all 3 tornadoes are easier, it allows the tanks to get in nice and close to the boss without having to worry. Mainwaring fucked around with this message at 10:37 on May 11, 2022 |
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May 11, 2022 10:32
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I always just stand on the corner of the raid marker and it seems to do the trick. It's not something i've ever consciously worried about.
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May 11, 2022 10:42
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Martman posted:Not sure I'm understanding you right, but let's say you start in your intercardinal pairs and then the initial tethers go out like this (since afaik they're totally random at the start). I'm not actually sure what mechanic you're trying to solve for here. Is this P4S door boss Bloodrakes? If so, what the gently caress is with this positioning lol
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May 11, 2022 14:14
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I think it's trying to show why Lord_Magmar's strat won't work.
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May 11, 2022 14:21
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Thundarr posted:I'm not actually sure what mechanic you're trying to solve for here. Is this P4S door boss Bloodrakes? If so, what the gently caress is with this positioning lol
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May 11, 2022 14:21
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Ah that makes sense. Yeah people running around randomly in that part just causes problems, which is why the actual solution to the tether grabs is for people who don't want tethers to stack tightly due south of the boss, and the people who do want tethers to stack tightly inside the boss. Everybody instantly gets what they want, no fuss.
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May 11, 2022 14:29
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Apparently the OCE strat is to put him middle, have the tower people stand on their towers and the tether people jiggle around on the centre of his hit box until they have all tethers. It sounds like it would work but for some reason some players just become stupid when tethers are involved and just run around like idiots.
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May 11, 2022 14:38
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CJ posted:Apparently the OCE strat is to put him middle, have the tower people stand on their towers and the tether people jiggle around on the centre of his hit box until they have all tethers. It sounds like it would work but for some reason some players just become stupid when tethers are involved and just run around like idiots. The Ravana strat, no idea if it's OCE wide but probably, lots of OCE players are from JP servers and import their strats apparently. Thundarr posted:Ah that makes sense. Yeah people running around randomly in that part just causes problems, which is why the actual solution to the tether grabs is for people who don't want tethers to stack tightly due south of the boss, and the people who do want tethers to stack tightly inside the boss. Everybody instantly gets what they want, no fuss. I think the idea is that people want to stand on their towers as soon as possible, so they move to those towers before Tethers go out. I didn't realise those tethers were that random, but even if they are I still think doing intercard pairs is less likely to miss a tether than random running around in the middle. It just would require me to be in a static who were capable of seeing the double tether thing and adjusting properly for it. Basically I don't like pugs, and am mad because I am bad at the game I guess. P4S is rough, act 2 is a dick.
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May 11, 2022 14:47
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The thing people don’t realise is that tethers are a collective responsibility. If a group of 4 people need tethers and 1 is on the wrong group, all 4 people need to move to get it. Seeing someone move out before all 4 tethers are on the group is one of the biggest signs that a player doesn’t know what they’re doing.
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May 11, 2022 15:06
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There's plenty of time between tower hits, tether deployment, and tether explosions to reposition. It does mean that everybody needs to know their role and be ready to move, which sucks when pugging, but there's no need for anybody to have a fixed position across multiple steps of the mechanic.
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May 11, 2022 15:07
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Everyone wants to hunt for the next dreaded Ilya strat but I’m going to be honest I don’t think Elmo is it
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May 11, 2022 15:24
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| # ? May 27, 2024 14:01 |
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https://twitter.com/Spainst8ofmind/status/1524017948465287169?s=20&t=X3jeobqEq01VtiXmqExyzQ
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May 11, 2022 15:30
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