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Finally saw this movie. Yeah. I did a really good job of avoiding spoilers so I went into this fully expecting Dr Strange and the Scarlet Witch to go off on a multiverse adventure together. When she was revealed to be the villain like 10 minutes into the movie I really, really was thrown for a loop. It was a bad choice. I liked WandaVision and the difference between the character in that show and this movie was pretty big and jarring. They did her dirty, and it sucked. Why lean into the tired, tired tropes of "every female character suffers from immense trauma and it informs all their actions" and "all-consuming motherhood"? Good grief. If you wanted to make a movie about Wanda processing the events of WandaVision then why not have her do it along the adventure as a protagonist rather than as some 1-dimensional grief harpy. Also, those kids loving suck. If you're going to have the loss of a couple of kids be the fulcrum around which her entire arc rotates then at least make those kids loving compelling instead of actively annoying and eye-rolly. Seriously. Most of the rest of the movie just didn't quite gel, either. Centering the whole plot around something that was so aggravating really just cut the legs out from underneath it all. I did like some parts. The illuminati getting murked by the Witch was pretty hilarious. Jon Krasinski popping in made me laugh. I liked the nods to What If...? Some of the visual effects and art direction was really good, specifically Zombie Strange and the souls of the damned (and the way he said that line also made us laugh). The mid-credits tag with the purple lady was also a big "what the gently caress? who knows? it's marvel" laugh. But yeah, all in all what a terrible fundamental plot and characterization decision. What a wasted opportunity. They done Wanda dirty and it felt like the series finale of Game of Thrones. I can't imagine I'll ever watch this one again.
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May 10, 2022 20:56
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DeimosRising posted:lol you remember the entire first season as a single episode, which is pretty funny but Ned doesn't die until almost 10 hours into the show. I'm no big fan of the show, which started as an amusing enough night time soap with medieval fantasy gloss, but went on way too long and eventually lost the punchy editing and somewhat above average cinematography it started with and just became a slog. But I think it's pretty absurd to say it's a "glorification" of the society it portrays, it's very straightforwardly about how every single character is a traumatized wreck who becomes more and more hosed up as the story goes on. I was talking about Septum Maribold, who was composited into a slightly different character and played by Ian McShane I watched every season of GoT and I'm sorry but there's no way anybody writing or directing the first six was thinking anything other than "this character doing this violence is awesome and their violence makes them cool."
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May 10, 2022 20:58
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CelticPredator posted:Wanda crushing herself is very Spider-Man 2 and Spider-Man 2 is the best superhero movie of all time. I think she's dead and in Hell, but only as part part of a redemption arc that ends with her being accidentally let out by Grad Student Doom.
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May 10, 2022 21:00
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CelticPredator posted:Wanda crushing herself is very Spider-Man 2 and Spider-Man 2 is the best superhero movie of all time. It's pretty funny how Olson is doing interviews straight up saying she's got big ideas for Wanda's next appearance.
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May 10, 2022 21:09
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stev posted:Agatha was batshit mad and evil - she just wasn't walking around covered in blood snapping necks because she had no reason to be. precision posted:like, i haven't thought about this too much, but i think [Darkman] hits 75% of the same story and scene beats haha live with fruit posted:It's pretty funny how Olson is doing interviews straight up saying she's got big ideas for Wanda's next appearance. Besides that, they've been adding the exact right child characters into the MCU to suggest that they're building up to a Young Avengers movie/series in the next few years. If so, we'll need to get Wiccan and Speed from somewhere, and we just met a living Wanda who still has her kids. Robot Hobo fucked around with this message at 21:41 on May 10, 2022 |
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May 10, 2022 21:17
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I’ve come around on people saying they did her dirty. I get it now. She’s very dirty in the film. Covered in oil. I see your point.
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May 10, 2022 22:29
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It's funny, after seeing all the photoshops of Krasinski as Reed Richards for months and months and thinking they all looked stupid I gotta admit, they all pretty much nailed it. He looked exactly like everyone thought. That's not to say that I think he still looks stupid. Either way motheruckers dead as poo poo. That version of him, at least.
AndyElusive fucked around with this message at 23:35 on May 10, 2022 |
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May 10, 2022 23:18
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I think it was a fairly natural assumption that Wanda with her realization of 'I've hurt people for no gain and helped no one not even myself' would resolve not to hurt people anymore and be better. I think it squares better that her lesson taken away is that she was hurting the wrong people, especially when combined with evil book of all evil magic, which inspired the necronomicon and etc in universe, whispering to her. She could have taken another path. Instead she trusted a very evil book to help her. Just like multiple Stranges did. Only for it end in either their or their whole universes deaths.
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May 10, 2022 23:35
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AndyElusive posted:It's funny, after seeing all the photoshops of Krasinski as Reed Richards for months and months and thinking they all looked stupid I gotta admit, they all pretty much nailed it. He looked exactly like everyone thought. That's not to say that I think he still looks stupid. Either way motheruckers dead as poo poo. That version of him, at least. Yes, turning Reed into vermicelli was cool but I now have a special love for "What mouth?".
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May 10, 2022 23:57
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stev posted:As with Arthas I take it that the evil book and the evil sword gave them the means to do what they want and removed their inhibitions. Which would probably turn most people evil, especially if you're already into loving up towns to achieve your goals. Basically meth that gives you superpowers.
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May 11, 2022 00:16
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it would be great if in the next movie he just has a third eye and it's literally never mentioned
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May 11, 2022 01:19
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precision posted:it would be great if in the next movie he just has a third eye and it's literally never mentioned Given how Marvel treats its teases, it's a distinct possibility.
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May 11, 2022 01:39
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I'm not going to see this but I still want to see Professor X in the yellow floaty chair. Someone send me that image.
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May 11, 2022 01:48
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Ultron: Traumatically lost her family, went crazy trying to protect the only family she had left. Vin Desiel needs to be her dad in a flashback
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May 11, 2022 01:49
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CPL593H posted:I'm not going to see this but I still want to see Professor X in the yellow floaty chair. Someone send me that image. It’s all on YouTube
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May 11, 2022 01:57
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KittyEmpress posted:I think it was a fairly natural assumption that Wanda with her realization of 'I've hurt people for no gain and helped no one not even myself' would resolve not to hurt people anymore and be better. But was that the end of Wandavision? She seemed angry and bitter about essentially torturing hundreds of people for weeks. Her moral center is definitely off and has been since her introduction. Which honestly makes her a compelling character. And in this movie, a loving beast and the best Marvel villain by a loving mile. Second place being Hela.
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May 11, 2022 04:51
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So I just saw Evil Dead 4, it was pretty good but I think it could have used more violence. When Wanda destroyed every copy of the necronomicon in the multiverse does the include the past or just all present timelines. Just some food for thought 
Rutibex fucked around with this message at 05:34 on May 11, 2022 |
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May 11, 2022 05:20
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Rutibex posted:So I just saw Evil Dead 4, it was pretty good but I think it could have used more violence. When Wanda destroyed every copy of the necronomicon in the multiverse does the include the past or just all present timelines. Just some food for thought Presumably just the present timelines. If she'd somehow destroyed it in all pasts, she'd never have been able to read it so this movie couldn't have happened (or at least not played out this specific way
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May 11, 2022 11:09
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I feel like 'sacrifice everything to find a deus ex machina only for it to be destroyed, because it's only the first act' is a familiar plot device lately. And does require Strange to use the forbidden and spectacular magics, which is a lot more fun. For why Strange became so drat good at magic, I'm pretty sure it's exactly because he's already a world-class genius surgeon, with near superhuman knowledge of medicine, anatomy, and excellent coordination and dexterity. The first movie has the whole montage with Strange diving straight into magic like he's in college all over again, applying all his old skills, intellect and motivation to a new trade, and even learning to astral project just so he can continue studying in his sleep. He already has all the traits lending themselves to a mastery of Kamar-Taj's style of sorcery. Scarlet Witch on the other hand is more or less unspokenly her comics concept that's basically 'mutant whose power is magic'. (and yes, they're basically a Dungeons and Dragons Wizard and Sorcerer respectively) And one who quickly racked up a lot of practical experience and probably learning the hard way under HYDRA experimentation. Actually, kind of an unspoken similarity between them that definitely ties into the movie's themes; No wonder people consider Dr Strange to be one of the multiverse's biggest threats, and Scarlet Witch is actually able to be one; both of them relatively quickly gained access to incredible amounts of reality-warping magical power with relatively little practical experience or time to grow into them. And Strange at least had peers and mentors to tell him what a sorcerer should and should not do, and when to break the rules to make sure it's for a drat good reason, while Wanda had been used as a weapon while enduring repeated trauma. When either of them go bad, they go REALLY bad.
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May 11, 2022 13:18
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As much as Cap's final appearance was the biggest (and personally only) plot hole in the MCU, I don't think Wanda's arc could have happened if he was still around. Caps all about being strong for others and not giving up on them, and he was always shown as a positive influence on her. I know "why didn't they just call in X character for Y problem?!" is a frequent question in the MCU, but with so many characters every movie can't spend energy explaining why a dozen different people are busy or whatever. Except for Cap. He believes in people and never gives up, it's a bigger superpower than his supersoldier serum. His absence opened the door for the corruption and heel turns that make the world more varied interesting and "real". I wonder what interesting scene could have occurred if he was in the illuminati Wanda confronted? I have no doubt about what MoM wanda would do, but it could have served to highlight and accelerate her "change". Also I guess hawkeye/ronin is an exception to my "cap has super redemption powers" theory, but it seemed like Natasha was taking point on it maybe he gave them space at her request. Yeah! Also people are upset about Wanda backsliding from (what others but not me saw as) redemption or healing at the end of wandavision, but I think it makes perfect sense and there is a parallel with strange there too. In dr strange 1 he consciously accepts that "its not all about him", yet MoM explores his innate and human tendency to still be self focused. He's fooling others and perhaps himself about being over Christine, and makes her wedding about him (nevermind alt-strange's actions!) Even his willingness to sacrifice for the greater good is about HIS role in making that choice and his arc was internalizing relinquishing his self centered tendencies. Your post highlighted why he was able to do it more successfully than Wanda.... sometimes. BRJurgis fucked around with this message at 13:58 on May 11, 2022 |
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May 11, 2022 13:38
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Ghost Leviathan posted:For why Strange became so drat good at magic, I'm pretty sure it's exactly because he's already a world-class genius surgeon, with near superhuman knowledge of medicine, anatomy, and excellent coordination and dexterity. The first movie has the whole montage with Strange diving straight into magic like he's in college all over again, applying all his old skills, intellect and motivation to a new trade, and even learning to astral project just so he can continue studying in his sleep. He already has all the traits lending themselves to a mastery of Kamar-Taj's style of sorcery. Also Strange has photographic memory so he can learn new things really fast
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May 11, 2022 17:08
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Rarity posted:Also Strange has photographic memory so he can learn new things really fast It was so weird having the ending and first mid-credits scene back to back being "Oh poo poo, he grew a third eye, this is clearly something terrible!" (as evidenced by the Raimi horror-zoom) followed immediately by "Oh, yeah, I gots a third eye now, no biggie." Robot Hobo fucked around with this message at 17:25 on May 11, 2022 |
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May 11, 2022 17:23
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About the thing that we see at the very end of the movie/that we see in the mid-credits stinger along with the scarf/cloak, I think the third eye is supposed to be a replacement for the Eye of Agamotto, especially as the locket where it would "usually" be held in comics Strange is empty because that's where the Time Stone was.
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May 11, 2022 17:37
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Admiralty Flag posted:About the thing that we see at the very end of the movie/that we see in the mid-credits stinger along with the scarf/cloak, I think the third eye is supposed to be a replacement for the Eye of Agamotto, especially as the locket where it would "usually" be held in comics Strange is empty because that's where the Time Stone was. Strange should have the Time Stone back though because Steve gave it back to the Ancient One after the events of Endgame
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May 11, 2022 17:42
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Rarity posted:Strange should have the Time Stone back though because Steve gave it back to the Ancient One after the events of Endgame That's a different universe gosh geez
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May 11, 2022 17:47
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Shageletic posted:Feels like you could have helped yourself by not paying attn or searching out Marvel news about Marvel poo poo? Most people didn't know poo poo about what was going to happen in this movie because they're not massive nerds like all of us that spend their time talking and reading about this stuff. I cut out on going to these threads a week ago and was still delightfully surprised by a couple of developments and cameos. I don't visit any media related threads until after I've seen whatever it is. I couldn't visit YouTube or hell even Google News without having every step/cast decision about this movie being told to me. Short of staying off the internet for several months, I couldn't avoid it. But none of that matters really because I didn't like the writing, the delivery, the pacing, overall plot, etc. Literally the best part of the experience was the final post credit bit with you know who. Genuine laugh.
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May 11, 2022 17:55
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Grimdude posted:I don't visit any media related threads until after I've seen whatever it is. I heard this movie existed yesterday because of a red letter media review
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May 11, 2022 18:00
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Rarity posted:Strange should have the Time Stone back though because Steve gave it back to the Ancient One after the events of Endgame No, that just means Strange had it to give to Thanos. It was still destroyed after the Snap.
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May 11, 2022 18:04
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Did nobody listen when Paul Rudd said "Back to the Future is bullshit" in Endgame? Time travel/alternate universes are the same thing in the MCU. You can't technically change history because you just create a branching alternate timeline with that past instead of changing the past in your own timeline. The time stone in the 616 Universe is destroyed and they returned the other one to Universe whatever.
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May 11, 2022 18:07
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Rutibex posted:I heard this movie existed yesterday because of a red letter media review Let me guess. They hated it. And the grass is green, the sky is blue and the mind stone's yellow. Everyone posted:Yes, turning Reed into vermicelli was cool but I now have a special love for "What mouth?". Apparently, I got pretty startled when Black Bolts head went pop and almost leaped out of my chair or something. AndyElusive fucked around with this message at 18:17 on May 11, 2022 |
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May 11, 2022 18:14
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Grimdude posted:I don't visit any media related threads until after I've seen whatever it is. Why are you in a movie discussion forum? You have so far posted only generalities that amount to "I didn't like this." Ok, I'm sorry this movie wasted two hours of your life. I really am! Did you want to talk about specifics that bothered you or just yell at strangers because it pissed you off? We have another forum, the Film Dump, that may be more up your alley if it's the latter.
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May 11, 2022 18:16
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Did nobody listen when Paul Rudd said "Back to the Future is bullshit" in Endgame? The only exception being Cap in endgame. He was sitting on that bench rather than popping out of the quantum machine. He must have created an alternate timeline wherever he lived that life with Peggy, but how did he return to ours? What did he do then, after creating a divergent timeline and living (nearly a) lifetime there, just bail and come back to, like, die or go into space with Jules? Rhetorical question, the answer is comic book stuff .
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May 11, 2022 18:37
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BRJurgis posted:The only exception being Cap in endgame. He was sitting on that bench rather than popping out of the quantum machine. He must have created an alternate timeline wherever he lived that life with Peggy, but how did he return to ours? What did he do then, after creating a divergent timeline and living (nearly a) lifetime there, just bail and come back to, like, die or go into space with Jules? Old cap was always in that timeline. He's in closed loop. I made a diagram after the movie came out to try and make sense of it:  You "start" at the 1945 plot, and follow the direction when Cap is first frozen. It still probably doesn't make sense, but whatever. The time dynamics of the MCU are stupid anyways. [edit] I remember the writers of Endgame contradicting what the Russo bros said about how time works in the film too, lmao. teagone fucked around with this message at 18:58 on May 11, 2022 |
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May 11, 2022 18:50
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teagone posted:Old cap was always in that timeline. I made a diagram after the movie came out lmao The film states you cannot go back to your own past as it would be a divergent timeline instead. Unless there was already quantum teleporting technology at some point in the past which cap then learned about and came back at some previous point, that could be a loophole. But this is the insanity of comic book nerd theories. I think it's feasible he lived life with Peggy in an alternate timeline while that cap was frozen, then returned to say goodbye to Sam and bucky (returning at some undetermined point earlier to punk them with bench shenanigans). Who knows maybe there's an endless loop of time displaced caps having super soldier sex with endlessly satisfied agent carters. Kang sees it all.
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May 11, 2022 19:05
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He Who Remains was a big Peggy/Steve shipper and gave them a pass.
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May 11, 2022 20:48
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teagone posted:Old cap was always in that timeline. He's in closed loop. I made a diagram after the movie came out to try and make sense of it: It ends in 2023, 5 years after IW, but no: Cap created a splinter universe when he went back to gently caress Peggy. How he hopped from alt-2023 to the primary timeline to talk to Sam is not addressed because they didn't care to and the movie was already 3 hours long. Also nothing matters and Chris Evans just wanted out. I loved Strange 2, though. Genuinely surprised they let Sam Raimi make a Sam Raimi movie. It was instantly more gross and more imaginative than Strange 1 ever tried to be, and kind of nailed the janky Evil Dead vibe with corpse-puppet Strange flying via a magic cloak stitched together from angry demons or jittery Wanda attacking people via reflections on random surfaces. The horror beats landed great, and the sense that Strange is reckless and has no reservations about toying with unholy powers came across way more uncomfortably than the first movie. The Illuminati section basically felt like a live action Rick and Morty, but the choice to load it up with fan service stunt casting and then have Wanda gruesomely and dispassionately kill all of them was still hilarious. Mostly, though, the best part of Strange's mythology is the pulpy "Strange Tales"-ness of it, the Lovecraft-adjacent lore aspects and what-not. And this movie actually went for that.
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May 11, 2022 21:02
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I just remember the writers of Endgame saying Cap was in a closed loop and the Russo Bros say he created a branched timeline, so basically yeah, whatever the gently caress who cares lol. It's not important how he ended up old and sitting by the lake. Much of Endgame sacrifices narrative logic for emotion anyways.
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May 11, 2022 21:16
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So was there no Ted Raimi at all in this movie? I sort of thought the main voice of the spirits that became the cloak sounded like his character from Evil Dead 2, but it's been years since I've seen that movie and could be totally off base.
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May 11, 2022 21:31
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teagone posted:I just remember the writers of Endgame saying Cap was in a closed loop and the Russo Bros say he created a branched timeline, so basically yeah, whatever the gently caress who cares lol. It's not important how he ended up old and sitting by the lake. Much of Endgame sacrifices narrative logic for emotion anyways. I think people forgot the important part which was to restore the people lost to the snap they had to come back forward to that point in time, not change the past because it would just branch to an alternate timeline. Doing it this way, restored lives in the sacred timelines and was not them living in an alternate branch.
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May 11, 2022 21:49
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I don't watch a lot of Marvel stuff, especially the TV shows. Has the multiverse always existed or did it only come into being after the events in Loki?
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May 11, 2022 21:53
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