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Panfilo posted:What exactly do people mean when they say Neoliberalism? I don't mean the dictionary definition, I mean terminally online Twitter debate bro definition. Depending on what kind of debate bro you're talking about, it means: 1-Someone with a lot of barely justified nostalgia for a pre-Trump status quo without acknowledging the cracks below the surface that led to the current status quo 2-Someone who is perceived as standing in the way of The Revolution because they care about racial justice or related issues
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May 13, 2022 01:28
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Neoliberalism can mean whatever you want it to mean but I would imagine most people just use it to describe "all the poo poo that happened between thatcher/reagan and now" Which admittedly is hard for some of us because that encompasses the entire time we have been alive.
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May 13, 2022 01:31
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I AM GRANDO posted:Hey, did jrod ever come back? I’m going to take the lsat in a year. I’ll post my score and if he doesn’t do the same, we’ll know libertarianism is a bad philosophy. He tried reregging under a new name that implied he was some kind of turbogenius (  ), but once he found out no one was going to let up on holding him to proving his statements he hosed off again.Also there was some threat to chargeback his  because of some rules-lawyering reason, something like "well what I was banned for isn't explicitly prohibited, therefore it's legal".
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May 13, 2022 02:27
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Panfilo posted:What exactly do people mean when they say Neoliberalism? I don't mean the dictionary definition, I mean terminally online Twitter debate bro definition. It a way to say Reaganomics without sounding like boomer
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May 13, 2022 02:36
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OwlFancier posted:Neoliberalism can mean whatever you want it to mean but I would imagine most people just use it to describe "all the poo poo that happened between thatcher/reagan and now" In my case, almost exactly. DarklyDreaming posted:Depending on what kind of debate bro you're talking about, it means: I'm fond of #2. War and Pieces posted:It a way to say Reaganomics without sounding like boomer My current favourite is when people use the term 'free markets' to mean 'gently caress you, I have enough money for food AND shelter'
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May 13, 2022 03:31
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I AM GRANDO posted:Hey, did jrod ever come back? I’m going to take the lsat in a year. I’ll post my score and if he doesn’t do the same, we’ll know libertarianism is a bad philosophy. polymathy posted:here I can't help but wonder what his thoughts on Ukraine would be. He claims to be fiercely antiwar, but we all know the people he cozies up to, so it's anyone's guess what he'd have to say on the matter.
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May 13, 2022 03:34
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Ok see because I kind of interpreted Neoliberalism to be the battered housewifes take on Capitalism, "Sure it's wasteful and exploitative sometimes but it's also good in some ways and it's all I got". With the recent Roe V Wade stuff going on a lot of Libertarians are going mask off and straight up saying "I'm pro freedom, not pro murder" in regards to women's body autonomy. I bet this is why there aren't a whole lot of female Libertarians.
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May 13, 2022 03:36
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I don't know anybody except maybe absolutely unhinged democratic staffers who would use neoliberalism as a eulogising term. It's pretty universally derogatory, I think. People who believe in the ideology it describes, usually avoid calling it that because they know the association. I know there is a reddit for it but there's a reddit for every idiotic thing in the world, I have never heard anybody IRL describe it as a good thing, they instead describe it, and then say it's good, but they don't use the word. The sort of social progressive sounding but economically garbage position is usually just liberalism I think, with or without the capital L depending on where and who you're talking to.
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May 13, 2022 03:40
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Most neoliberals would just call neoliberalism “the natural order,” or “the way things are,” or “freedom from ideology.” Giving it a name implies there are other ways of understanding the world.
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May 13, 2022 04:05
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The big trick neoliberalism relies on is invisibility. I remember being told on these forums that you can't say a person is neoliberal unless they went to university to study it and formally declare themselves as such.
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May 13, 2022 05:49
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In fairness, if I met someone who did describe themselves as a neoliberal, I'd be incredibly creeped out by it.
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May 13, 2022 07:17
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Panfilo posted:With the recent Roe V Wade stuff going on a lot of Libertarians are going mask off and straight up saying "I'm pro freedom, not pro murder"
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May 13, 2022 09:40
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theshim posted:Jrod's last post is I mean, he mentions following Grayzone and "a few others" in that post so, uh, combined with everything else we know about him and his heroes, I think we can all take a pretty good guess as to where he's ended up on Ukraine vs. Russia, i.e. "how loving dare Ukraine fight back against their rightful overlords?!"
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May 13, 2022 09:42
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Panfilo posted:What exactly do people mean when they say Neoliberalism? I don't mean the dictionary definition, I mean terminally online Twitter debate bro definition. The Twitter definition is almost always the David Harvey one anyway. Liberalism is a set of beliefs that markets are better because they are the best way to distribute resources. Neoliberalism is the belief that markets are better. One of these ideologies is historically capable of compromise under certain conditions.
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May 13, 2022 11:23
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Morroque posted:In fairness, if I met someone who did describe themselves as a neoliberal, I'd be incredibly creeped out by it. This absolutely holds up with all the people who openly describe themselves as neoliberal. They are a special kind of freak.
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May 13, 2022 12:15
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Even though I reject its values, one other permutation of the term that I have seen is using it to describe the resurgence of 19th-century economic ideas, but 'neo' in both the sense that is 'now' as well as using a gossamer thin veil of diversity and social progress as a smokescreen for rapacious behaviour and a sort of moral masturbation.
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May 13, 2022 12:53
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Ghost Leviathan posted:This absolutely holds up with all the people who openly describe themselves as neoliberal. They are a special kind of freak. Worse than the people who refer to themselves as a "Classical liberal"? Because every one of those types on Facebook is some bonkers level of groyper craziness.
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May 13, 2022 13:12
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Panfilo posted:Worse than the people who refer to themselves as a "Classical liberal"? Because every one of those types on Facebook is some bonkers level of groyper craziness. Different flavours. There's a reason 'globe emoji' has a certain reputation on twitter.
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May 13, 2022 14:35
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Yeah "classical liberal" basically just means some flavour of far right, very annoying but you can understand it, they're just horrible people who will love all the things you hate. Calling yourself a neoliberal is like, you're an alien from another planet who has come to inflict extremely specific tortures on human society while being convinced that it is helping.
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May 13, 2022 16:13
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As near as I can tell, various shades of centrists started calling themselves "Proud Neoliberal" on Twitter as a reaction to getting heckled by leftists. It's the faded rose and donut emojis for network journalists, think-tank fellows, and conservative Democrats, particularly those you could describe as "Millennials who made it."
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May 13, 2022 16:22
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I just consider it Capitalism With American Characteristics.
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May 13, 2022 19:09
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OwlFancier posted:Yeah "classical liberal" basically just means some flavour of far right, very annoying but you can understand it, they're just horrible people who will love all the things you hate. It was definitely used by a lot of far-right "rationalists" to semantically distance themselves from fundamentalist Bush-era conservatives. They still support these conservatives, but their hatred of LGBT+ and POC are totally different than standard conservatives that hate LGBT+ because of their religion and POC because they're straight-up racists, you see.
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May 13, 2022 19:22
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Self described neoliberals is just the centrist version of being Too Online
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May 14, 2022 03:45
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https://twitter.com/guy_freire/status/1525158861627396099
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May 14, 2022 08:30
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That's libertarians for you, alway looking at the little guys.
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May 14, 2022 10:43
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Strawman posted:That's libertarians for you, alway looking at the little guys. Thread title
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May 14, 2022 12:06
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Panfilo posted:With the recent Roe V Wade stuff going on a lot of Libertarians are going mask off and straight up saying "I'm pro freedom, not pro murder" in regards to women's body autonomy. I bet this is why there aren't a whole lot of female Libertarians. I remember a thread years ago about idiots wanting to build a 'libertarian island' made out of junk in the middle of the ocean. As endlessly horrible as that sounds, one thing sticks in my mind - some guy saying that "of course the first women on the island would be raped constantly. But, as more women arrived, the average number of rapes per person would go down ." The idea that, perhaps, more women would not want to come to rape island after seeing what happened to the first ones never crossed their mind.
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May 14, 2022 14:43
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"What if we did Pitcairn but made out of garbage" sure is a... libertarian position.
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May 14, 2022 14:53
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Strawman posted:That's libertarians for you, alway looking at the little guys. 
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May 14, 2022 17:03
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A garbage continent for a garbage ideology.
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May 14, 2022 17:35
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Neoliberals and libertarians have a lot in common, having basically the same fundamental worldview and lack of understanding of material conditions. I suppose a big difference could be summed up is that A: Libertarians don't realise they're already living in the kind of society they seem to want, and 2: Neoliberals look at that society and go 'This will eventually benefit everyone, somehow' and libertarians go 'This will eventually benefit me, somehow'.
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May 16, 2022 06:03
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Neoliberals and libertarians have a lot in common, having basically the same fundamental worldview and lack of understanding of material conditions. I suppose a big difference could be summed up is that A: Libertarians don't realise they're already living in the kind of society they seem to want, and 2: Neoliberals look at that society and go 'This will eventually benefit everyone, somehow' and libertarians go 'This will eventually benefit me, somehow'. The other major difference is that libertarians see the past as like right now but better and neoliberals see the past as like right now but worse.
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May 16, 2022 07:24
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I view the term neoliberal to mean a person who leans slightly to the left of American politics bur supports the status quo. Stuff like "We should have a few safety nets but nothing else beyond the market." "The Iraq War and nation building are bad but surgical strikes on Syria are fine." "Medicare is fine to act as a prize for the elderly, but Medicare For All would come too close to socialism and it might strain the market too much to pay for that". "Public colleges subsidized by taxes are fine, but students should take out loans to cover the difference and pay them back responsibly". Realistically, if you ask 10 different self-described neoliberals and 10 haters of neo-liberals, you'll get 20 different answers. I tend to think anyone who voted for Clinton in the 2016 primaries because Sanders was too far but voting in the Republican primaries would be too primitive. Not necessarily people who strategically voted for her thinking she'd stand a better chance in the general election.
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May 16, 2022 11:45
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Thing is about neoliberalism is that it's not really a mainstream position per se, at least as a conscious held one, among the voters. It's used to describe the worldview and in-practice administration of establishment politicians and the intelligentsia who run interference for them, and it's not what they actually run on or expect voters to actually like. Well, until recently, since the failchildren in charge have drunk so much of their own kool-aid. It's President Obama as opposed to Campaign Obama, constantly making excuses for inaction on problems while shoveling money to the military and police to continue doing exactly what they are doing. Hence why the only people who openly self-identify as neoliberals are loving freaks.
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May 16, 2022 12:10
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Neoliberalism used to be a consistent idea. Neoliberalism even had elected an ideal ruler, who had more approval among neoliberal thinkers then any other ideological ruler had among their ideology's theoreticians. That man was Pinochet. After he became internationally known mainly for his atrocities, almost all neoliberals stopped calling themselves neoliberal. Now only crazy people openly call themselves neoliberal. And if you see someone calling their election platform neoliberal they are almost always also for centrism, genocide, apoliticalness and fascism. Like Fujimori jr. a few years ago or Putin's earlier elections.
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May 16, 2022 12:21
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Another way I've seen Libertarians show their own rear end is their take on the baby formula shortage. The ones I've talked to about it have consistently argued the same points-that there's no proof the tainted formula was due to the fault of the company, that so few companies manufacture baby formula because the margins are so poor, and combined with that government regulations make it unnecessarily onerous to compete. This topic is a perfect example of how they have to somehow blame the government in a way that wasn't due to lobbying, big govt are just a bunch of dum dums and it wouldn't be a problem if they just got their hands out of people's wallets and business.
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May 16, 2022 13:21
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https://twitter.com/populismupdates/status/1424444180667854852 http://country.eiu.com/article.aspx?articleid=462085029&Country=Argentina&topic=Politics&subtopic=Forecast&subsubtopic=Key+players+to+watch  Unfortunately, the specter of Libertarians shitlords is getting stronger.
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May 16, 2022 15:08
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Libertarianism is a good 'scapegoat' ideology because it plays to the idea that someone out there, in this case the government, is the thing holding you back. It's a bit like the tale of communism & the ownership class, except that the latter is actually correct. Keep in mind that it's big business supporting this horse poo poo, and they're evil, not stupid. They aren't going to make themselves look bad, but they will gladly tell poor people that their taxes are too high so that rich fuckers don't have to pay any either.
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May 16, 2022 15:39
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There is fairly constant pro-capitalism propaganda everywhere. Conservatives are the ones that profit from the propaganda, or Kleptocrats if they live in "poor" countries. Neoliberals are the ones that write the propaganda, or used to now they have no set name. Libertarians are the ones that believe the propaganda.
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May 16, 2022 16:03
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https://twitter.com/RonPaul/status/1525504528417804289?t=tHnh3hHTq4J1SYT6w_mYKQ&s=19
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May 17, 2022 00:04
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