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It'd be fun if the effect was tied to the kind of mood that led to the artifact. So standard fey moods will lead to something generally beneficial, while fell moods might be something more mixed (purely negative would be boring). For fun, maybe posessed moods could just straight up not even tell you what the effect is since the dwarf has no idea what they've done.
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# ? May 13, 2022 06:44 |
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# ? Jun 10, 2024 22:46 |
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The Cheshire Cat posted:It'd be fun if the effect was tied to the kind of mood that led to the artifact. So standard fey moods will lead to something generally beneficial, while fell moods might be something more mixed (purely negative would be boring). For fun, maybe posessed moods could just straight up not even tell you what the effect is since the dwarf has no idea what they've done. possessed moods reference the personality attributes, likes, and dislikes, of one of the preexisting dead characters from worldgen
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# ? May 13, 2022 06:47 |
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Threetoe posted:As the work goes on... and the game gets easier and easier to interface with, you will find new mechanics to rely on that you scarcely knew existed. This week I want to talk about the work order system. This screen is only available once you have appointed a manager, but if you have you will find yourself clicking on it again and again as your fortress grows and you have more important things to worry about than ordering enough beds for the new living quarters.
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# ? May 15, 2022 09:20 |
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Tunicate posted:possessed moods reference the personality attributes, likes, and dislikes, of one of the preexisting dead characters from worldgen what
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# ? May 15, 2022 09:48 |
I always picture this as being the strange mood mindset (Behind a URL on general principles when it comes to Oglaf) https://i.imgur.com/u0fl6Xe.jpeg
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# ? May 15, 2022 12:25 |
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Neurion posted:One quern to rule them all
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# ? May 15, 2022 14:57 |
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moonmazed posted:what That was a suggestion but i bet its on the roadmap
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# ? May 15, 2022 15:01 |
So how actually playable is the game itself currently? I haven't actually run a fort in over ten years or more now because it seemed like the game was getting unmanageable -- too many random things like vampirism that could just unpredictably zero out your fort, and the tools to manage such (legal system, physician / hospital, etc) unwieldy or buggy, to the point that it seemed impossible to keep a fort going for very long before an inevitable collapse -- boatmurdered as inevitability rather than hilarious result of mismanagement. Instead every time in the past few years I've gotten the urge to play, instead I just go read the bug tracker for a while, laugh a bunch, then move on. Setting aside the "fun to read about other people's forts going wrong / hilarious bugs" factor, how playable is the game right now? Do we think that will change with the graphical release? If this were simcity, would you consider it playable?
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# ? May 15, 2022 15:23 |
The bug tracker will always look terrible and always has. I feel like the game is playable now, though vampirism can still be a challenge with the current UI. If that really bothers you, you should probably just wait for the Steam version which really doesn't seem that far off. You can also just use tools like DF Therapist and the like, even cheating to find vampires.
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# ? May 15, 2022 16:13 |
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What, do you want to live forever?
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# ? May 15, 2022 17:06 |
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This was already possible, either with provisos (e.g. "it triggers a certain amount of construction the moment you fall below a set threshold, which means stocks wildly zoom up and down instead of just staying at your target value") or with third-party tools, but it's still absolutely fantastic that it's getting first-party support
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# ? May 15, 2022 18:03 |
I mean, I don't know if other people consider it playable, but I've been playing it a lot over the past year. It's always going to have bugs, or even just things not working and you can't figure out why - my last fort I could NOT get them to make steel, despite an abundance of iron, charcoal, flux, etc. Saying that, that fort ticked along nicely for 7 or 8 years and ended up retired rather than destroyed. Toady definitely did something about some of the more common complaints around 47.05 - dwarves going into tantrum spirals because they got rained on six years ago doesn't happen for instance, and werebeasts seem less frequent, or at least less deadly. The Steam update will help for sure, but it's almost entirely UX improvements from what I've seen so far. Even the stuff above about work orders is in the game right now, has been a while, it's just under a cruftier interface. Hopefully that'll make it less of a vertical learning curve for new players.
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# ? May 15, 2022 20:33 |
I can't wait until they finally release on Steam cause I wanna see Toady and his brother get their bag for decades of game development. My dudes deserve to have a good payday and a comfortable lifestyle. It'll also definitely kick me back into playing DF after a few years off.
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# ? May 15, 2022 20:51 |
i'm excited for steam release because toady has probably played fortress mode more in the last two years than in the ten years before that, as part of the UX revamp, and maybe has an actual idea of how players usually play dwarf fortress now
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# ? May 15, 2022 21:42 |
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Wolfechu posted:werebeasts seem less frequent, or at least less deadly. I feel like werebeasts and vampires are now funnier than they are deadly. They'll still rock your poo poo if you're unlucky or unprepared but a weregiraffe transforming in your mead hall is no longer going to automatically be a fortress ending event.
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# ? May 16, 2022 22:30 |
Wolfechu posted:
That's exactly the stuff i was worried about, glad to hear it
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# ? May 16, 2022 22:39 |
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Kenning posted:I can't wait until they finally release on Steam cause I wanna see Toady and his brother get their bag for decades of game development. My dudes deserve to have a good payday and a comfortable lifestyle. It'll also definitely kick me back into playing DF after a few years off. I hope it works out this way. I'm worried that with how much the colony builder genre has blown up over the years, it'll get lost in the sea and only really sell to us old grognards with nostalgia for playing it in 2008.
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# ? May 17, 2022 00:07 |
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As much as I love dwarf fortress, it's fallen behind games like RimWorld. Dwarf fortress just gave up on being a game. It's a bunch of disjointed and badly implemented bugged systems that wear you down until you give up playing it. Want to slay goblins with your well equiped dwarf axemen? They won't equip both boots. Finally got all of them to equip all of their armor? It degrades now. No repair function. No way to sort by wear status in stockpiles. Sure, you can probably micromanage every one of your soldiers after every battle to make sure they drop their worn armor. Hope it's worth the hour or two. The hospital system is still broken, and doesn't even address things like syndromes for which there is still no answer to. A dusting of forgotten beast extract on the wrong tile is the end of a fort. You still have insanely basic things like gold being 10x more plentiful than IRON, which isn't present on 90% of embark tiles. Butchering animals returns exactly one hide, no matter the size of the animal. Sieges are defeated by a moat and drawbridge still. There's a good reason why very few are playing this anymore, and I hate to see it, because there's nothing quite like it. But the game just saps you with all of these little things and doesn't really give much more in return than it did 14 years ago.
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# ? May 17, 2022 08:04 |
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Okay. You can just play other games? It's just a one-man long-running passion project not even in 1.0
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# ? May 17, 2022 08:09 |
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Zesty posted:Okay. You can just play other games? It's just a one-man long-running passion project not even in 1.0 That's actually exactly what I've been doing for a decade or so before trying it again recently. RimWorld was also a one man passion project. I hope Tarn makes fat stacks off the Steam release. The new features are amazing, and it seems he actually wants to address some of the most common complaints now that more than people who took part in the boat murdered let's play will be playing it.
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# ? May 17, 2022 08:37 |
Very few people playing the game these days. Everyone's saying it, very sad. Very sad. This Toady, he had a really great idea at one point, a great idea, and a lot of work behind it. But now, the iron folks. We need the iron. And instead there's gold. You know I love gold, I think it's great to have gold, but the dwarfs want iron, and they don't have it. Very sad. I hope he does well! He's worked very hard and we all love it when you see someone who works, since most people don't want to work these days. Nobody's working, and now there are these union problems. But we have other games, like Rimworld and the like. Much cleaner games, and none of these problems with moats and sieges. The sieges in Rimworld work really well, they work well. We love to see them and beat them, and there's iron. There is iron. And the dwarfs can mine it.
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# ? May 17, 2022 09:28 |
I tried rimworld but it just felt so... Empty. I wanted more, without having to download a hundred million mods. Also the fact I couldn't control it entirely with keyboard irritated me. Maybe it's had some updates in the past couple of years, but when I was playing it, I always just had the thought of "I could be playing DF instead right now"
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# ? May 17, 2022 09:33 |
Nettle Soup posted:I tried rimworld but it just felt so... Empty. I wanted more, without having to download a hundred million mods. Also the fact I couldn't control it entirely with keyboard irritated me. Maybe it's had some updates in the past couple of years, but when I was playing it, I always just had the thought of "I could be playing DF instead right now" I agree. The reason DF is so amazing is the depth, which no game of its kind has
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# ? May 17, 2022 09:57 |
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Rimworld is getting up there in terms of depth, with the expansion packs, but yeah it doesn't try to match DF. It does what it does with a tiny percentage of DF's jank though.
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# ? May 17, 2022 10:29 |
I like Rimworld well enough but I don't think it gets even close to the same level of depth. Rimworld is a bit easier to "game" to keep everything going smoothly and while the difficulty certainly ramps up, there's not really any surprises after a few hours. You can't pull off anything close to the cool mega projects that DF has either.
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# ? May 17, 2022 10:33 |
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Even though it's still super early access, I can't stress how much more fun I got out of Going Medieval just because it's exactly rimworld with z-levels. Just the idea that I could have a food storage cellar beneath my main dining area or bedrooms above it instead of sprawling across the entire map to accomodate all the stuff I needed to build was awesome.
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# ? May 17, 2022 10:36 |
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a7m2 posted:I like Rimworld well enough but I don't think it gets even close to the same level of depth. Rimworld is a bit easier to "game" to keep everything going smoothly and while the difficulty certainly ramps up, there's not really any surprises after a few hours. You can't pull off anything close to the cool mega projects that DF has either. DF has never been about "difficulty" considering you can just close your gates and essentially nothing can bother you, you can cheese almost every siege with cage traps made from wooden cages and rock mechanisms and you can run a completely air tight self-sufficient fort in any biome with the default starting loadout. Only undead biomes are intrinsically threatening because your own units can get turned inside your defenses but otherwise you can just turtle up and trivially "win" the game Spanish Matlock posted:Even though it's still super early access, I can't stress how much more fun I got out of Going Medieval just because it's exactly rimworld with z-levels. Just the idea that I could have a food storage cellar beneath my main dining area or bedrooms above it instead of sprawling across the entire map to accomodate all the stuff I needed to build was awesome. yeah I like it and hope it goes somewhere, it has a good basic framework.
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# ? May 17, 2022 10:54 |
You make a good point re: difficulty. I guess I am so used to self imposed rules I didn't recognize them as such. My point about no surprises and mega projects still stand though. DF throws cool creatures, underground biomes, clowns, etc. at you and Rimworld just doesn't have that much you don't see in the first few hours (except in increasing numbers) except some cool weapons and equipment here and there.
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# ? May 17, 2022 12:25 |
Ultimately DF and RimWorld aim for different things and don't really even try to achieve the same goals; makes sense that for some people RimWorld's more cohesive & gameplay-focused structure is more inviting, while some prefer DF's janky but extremely ambitious simulationist approach.
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# ? May 17, 2022 13:24 |
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yeah, one's a video game and the other is someone's fever dream. df is a lot like noita in that regard. why make a functional, cohesive game, when you can just go bat-poo poo crazy, making stuff 99% of people will never see or do?
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# ? May 17, 2022 14:33 |
I feel like the dream of "graphical DF" has always been, in part, a dream of a DF that was just slightly more gameified, beyind just the graphics. Like, yeah, maybe seiges should work better? That's always been the thing. DF is close enough to being a *great* game to make the shortfall extraordinarily tantalizing. Just a few tweaks!!! Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 14:48 on May 17, 2022 |
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# ? May 17, 2022 14:42 |
the problem has always been that toady likes adventure mode better than the game that people actually play. he's always been fairly open that his playtime in fort mode for each version, proportional to the time spent implementing the features and playing adventure mode, is quite small. like i said in my last post, the steam revamp has basically forced him to play fortress mode and consider how the rest of the simulation interacts with the fort in detail, from a playable game feature perspective.
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# ? May 17, 2022 16:37 |
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I hope the game never makes "dig a hole in the ground, seal it up, and live forever off of underground mushroom farms and purified groundwater" not an easily achieved state. The fun of df is not losing is actually very easy with even a basic understanding of half the mechanics. What's difficult is achieving anything of note, at which point your hubris will be your ultimate downfall. Every lost fort comes down to "we could have just stayed in our little hidey hole, but noooo we had to build a castle with a moat and now a giant flying camelephant is feasting on our corpses" and that's such a special part of the experience
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# ? May 17, 2022 17:09 |
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Average Bear posted:As much as I love dwarf fortress, it's fallen behind games like RimWorld. Dwarf fortress just gave up on being a game. It's a bunch of disjointed and badly implemented bugged systems that wear you down until you give up playing it. Want to slay goblins with your well equiped dwarf axemen? They won't equip both boots. Finally got all of them to equip all of their armor? It degrades now. No repair function. No way to sort by wear status in stockpiles. Sure, you can probably micromanage every one of your soldiers after every battle to make sure they drop their worn armor. Hope it's worth the hour or two. I also love DF and agree with most of this. It's fine, the game is awesome and fun, but it would be way more fun if interacting with all these complex systems wasn't a total fuckin chore filled with non-intuitive problems. I end up feeling discouraged by having to gain a deeper understanding of the mechanics instead of being excited to do so.
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# ? May 17, 2022 17:10 |
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ok but yes i will absolutely admit that there's no real reason for equipping your military to be as difficult as it is, or for there to be no intended in game means of dealing with deadly dwarven illnesses. these things do not make the game more fun or more interesting (though they are very funny for about 20 minutes)
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# ? May 17, 2022 17:13 |
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Neurion posted:One quern to rule them all
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# ? May 17, 2022 18:10 |
Happened to check the regular Bay12 devlog, and he mentioned that he made a huge improvement while reworking the minecart system.Toady One posted:I've spent the last some days updating tracks and rollers and stops. I've also updated how constructions work - you can place any construction over a constructed floor now, so you don't have to remember to deconstruct them or think about which ones are itemless wall tops. I've also tried to make carved and constructed tracks play nice with each other - they understand each other's jobs a bit and can update work in progress to keep the tracks connected if you make additions. Small as it may seem, that will make things so much easier.
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# ? May 18, 2022 13:53 |
ninjewtsu posted:I hope the game never makes "dig a hole in the ground, seal it up, and live forever off of underground mushroom farms and purified groundwater" not an easily achieved state. The fun of df is not losing is actually very easy with even a basic understanding of half the mechanics. What's difficult is achieving anything of note, at which point your hubris will be your ultimate downfall. Losing is fun and Fun favors the bold.
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# ? May 18, 2022 15:03 |
What i like about DF over rimworld is its different approach to difficulty. Theres no swith or different AI like randy random or anything. The game us only as difficult as you make it. Settle near goblins? Get attacked by goblins. No trees at this embark topside? Cowabunga lets hope you find some in the caves. Because of this, the world seems actually organic in comparison to Rimworld which sometimes feels like the box your are in is the only thing in the game. It also feels like a lot of the stories you act out in rimworld kinda blend together
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# ? May 18, 2022 15:14 |
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# ? Jun 10, 2024 22:46 |
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I just had a vampire kill one of my dwarves. I started investigating visitors, and the guy who confessed was carrying a book he wrote. In it, it describes his real name and vampire status in regards to his marriage.
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# ? May 20, 2022 22:50 |