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Kaiser Mazoku posted:Well now I want to see a movie directed by Godzilla himself. Knowing him and his ego, it'll be hammy and self-indulgent and have some cringey lines like "What does Godzilla need with a starship?"
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May 16, 2022 18:32
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Some decades on, someone should really amend that Truffat quote, because it's not as deep as it sounds when you realize that for some people concepts like irony and sarcasm fly completely over their head and even getting a giant banner that screams "WAR/FASCISM/RACISM IS BAD" covering half the screen they would still watch and cheer their side engaging in horrific behavior.
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May 16, 2022 18:45
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Asterite34 posted:Knowing him and his ego, it'll be hammy and self-indulgent and have some cringey lines like "What does Godzilla need with a starship?" Nah, Gojira is a mensch. It might be a slightly self-indulgent movie, but he'd keep it about the little people. Of course, "the little people" would be played by kaiju in rubber human suits stamping through a set of suburban houses built twenty stories high.
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May 16, 2022 18:55
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Kaiser Mazoku posted:Well now I want to see a movie directed by Godzilla himself.
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May 16, 2022 19:18
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pentyne posted:Some decades on, someone should really amend that Truffat quote, because it's not as deep as it sounds when you realize that for some people concepts like irony and sarcasm fly completely over their head and even getting a giant banner that screams "WAR/FASCISM/RACISM IS BAD" covering half the screen they would still watch and cheer their side engaging in horrific behavior. I don’t know if it needs amending because that’s kind of the point of it? No such thing as an anti-war film because satire is lost on people and the only thing they see is “cool gun!”
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May 16, 2022 19:33
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Destroy All Monsters is Godzilla and his buds doing a Jackass sequel.
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May 16, 2022 19:36
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The Moon Monster posted:I think the way to make an antiwar/cop film is to do it from the POV of the hapless victims, but that's a less compelling narrative than "good guys fight the bad guys and win!" Video game instead of movie, but This War of Mine was from that perspective, and it sure as hell didn’t glorify war at all.
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May 16, 2022 19:39
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Kit Walker posted:I don’t know if it needs amending because that’s kind of the point of it? No such thing as an anti-war film because satire is lost on people and the only thing they see is “cool gun!” Can films have any kind of political content, then?
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May 16, 2022 19:40
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i thought beast of war was a pretty effective anti-war movie
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May 16, 2022 19:45
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Can films have any kind of political content, then? Yes, of course they can, you just have to accept that sometimes R Lee Ermy becomes a beloved personality and literal army recruitment poster
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May 16, 2022 19:56
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Kit Walker posted:I don’t know if it needs amending because that’s kind of the point of it? No such thing as an anti-war film because satire is lost on people and the only thing they see is “cool gun!” Come and See
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May 16, 2022 20:35
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Well I don't know, is Come and see more anti war film or more "nazis are loving evil" movie?
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May 16, 2022 20:40
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"There's no such thing as an anti war film" is "ah HA but YOU use a smartphone" but for movies. It's condemning the whole idea in one sweeping pointless statement of contrarianism. Making a statement on war? Ah HA, but your movie CONTAINS a war!!
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May 16, 2022 20:44
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Pro-war films depict wars. Logically, an anti-war film would not depict wars. Therefore, Garfield a Tale of Two Kitties is an anti-war film.
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May 16, 2022 20:45
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Garfield is at war with himself.
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May 16, 2022 20:51
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"Depictions of warfare that don't involve any fighting" sounds like a whose line is it anyway prompt.
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May 16, 2022 20:55
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That statement is partially about the aesthetic qualities of combat when depicted on film, that things like struggle, sacrifice, camaraderie, and violence are often attractive when presented in a dynamic visual medium that encourages identification and is meant to be visually striking. It’s not an entirely philosophical argument about content, but about form as well. I know you can deliberately make a film that is ugly and that discourages identification with its characters, or that didactically tells you something by torturing characters you like, but those moves have limited appeal because art is for pleasure of whatever variety.
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May 16, 2022 20:56
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CJacobs posted:"Depictions of warfare that don't involve any fighting" sounds like a whose line is it anyway prompt. Also sounds like a pretty pro-war movie. "See? They're just lounging around the base waiting for their turn! Haven't you ever heard a soldier say the difficult part of war is the waiting?"
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May 16, 2022 20:59
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Ghost Leviathan posted:'Depiction equals endorsement' has become a thing right here right now in this very thread. FTFY
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May 16, 2022 21:07
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I AM GRANDO posted:That statement is partially about the aesthetic qualities of combat when depicted on film, that things like struggle, sacrifice, camaraderie, and violence are often attractive when presented in a dynamic visual medium that encourages identification and is meant to be visually striking. It’s not an entirely philosophical argument about content, but about form as well. I honestly don't think it's so possible to 'accidentally' make warfare appear visually spectacular as to warrant caution. It's something you go into with intent, the sheer amount of setup required to create a dynamic scene like ones you're envisioning takes months of planning followed by days of execution, followed by even more hours of frame by frame editing. If your goal is to avoid making a spectacle out of war and then you somehow manage to do it, you really failed imo. edit: Narratively though I agree, I think that's very different. Tone and atmosphere are massively important for depiction. Even small changes in tone can have visual knock-on effects as well, i.e. the villain spits on the protagonist and so they get a smack for their indignance. Given three different writers the viewer could be left with the implication that both, either one, or no one could be the justified party. CJacobs has a new favorite as of 21:20 on May 16, 2022 |
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May 16, 2022 21:18
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I think the problem is that it doesn't matter, because there's a huge swath of insane people who think any situation where white people have access to guns is just super cool and awesome, and everything else is just noise to be filtered out.
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May 16, 2022 21:22
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Kit Walker posted:I don’t know if it needs amending because that’s kind of the point of it? No such thing as an anti-war film because satire is lost on people and the only thing they see is “cool gun!” Platoon is a pretty effective anti-war movie, Blackhawk Down isn't explicitly anti-war but it basically depicts the loss of life as needless. I can even make an argument that Saving Private Ryan has a big anti-war sentiment to it.
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May 16, 2022 21:24
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Mooseontheloose posted:Platoon is a pretty effective anti-war movie, Blackhawk Down isn't explicitly anti-war but it basically depicts the loss of life as needless. I can even make an argument that Saving Private Ryan has a big anti-war sentiment to it. Every war movie can be viewed as both pro and anti war.
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May 16, 2022 21:25
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Just set your movie in a military hospital when the war in question is going on. You get the horror without the spectacle.
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May 16, 2022 21:32
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Baudolino posted:Just set your movie in a military hospital when the war in question is going on. M.A.S.H.
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May 16, 2022 21:34
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CJacobs posted:"Depictions of warfare that don't involve any fighting" sounds like a whose line is it anyway prompt. This is jarhead
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May 16, 2022 21:41
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There was also GROPOS, Babylon 5 Season 2 Episode 10. No actual combat depicted. Just the interaction between Dr. Franklin and his father, the general, and some of the regulars befriending a few marines, none of whom return from the dubious secret mission, which happens off-screen.
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May 16, 2022 21:47
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Yeah that's a more interesting subject imo, what are some depictions of warfare as purely an allegory that have aged well? There are definitely more complex ways to make an anti-war statement than just showing one onscreen or making it a physical presence, I just can't think of any examples off the top of my head.
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May 16, 2022 21:57
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Mooseontheloose posted:Platoon is a pretty effective anti-war movie, Blackhawk Down isn't explicitly anti-war but it basically depicts the loss of life as needless. I can even make an argument that Saving Private Ryan has a big anti-war sentiment to it. Plenty of people think Platoon is a cool movie about killing commies. I do think the sentiment that you're art can't be anti-war because audiences are too stupid to understand is idiotic though.
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May 16, 2022 22:02
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mandatory lesbian posted:This is jarhead Then they made action movie sequels.
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May 16, 2022 22:02
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muscles like this! posted:Then they made action movie sequels. I mean to be fair nobody gives a poo poo about those.
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May 16, 2022 22:09
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Jojo Rabbit has an interesting PoV and I've seen some really depressing discourse about it here and there.
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May 16, 2022 22:21
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I have legitimately seen people claim that the movie glorified the nazis
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May 16, 2022 22:23
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HopperUK posted:Jojo Rabbit has an interesting PoV and I've seen some really depressing discourse about it here and there. it was a fun movie but changing the ending is so loving buck wild it feels like nobody involved got the point of the original beyond 'lol funny hitler'
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May 16, 2022 22:23
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Mooseontheloose posted:Platoon is a pretty effective anti-war movie, Blackhawk Down isn't explicitly anti-war but it basically depicts the loss of life as needless. I can even make an argument that Saving Private Ryan has a big anti-war sentiment to it. Blackhawk Down was made with full cooperation from the US military who thought it would be a good recruiting tool. They were right. Henchman of Santa posted:Plenty of people think Platoon is a cool movie about killing commies. I don't necessarily think this is true off all art but this is definitely something to consider when making art meant for mass consumption like a movie. Otherwise you end up like Scorcese who just refuses to reflect on the fact that a huge chunk of his audience completely miss the point of all his movies and just think that gangsters are cool.
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May 16, 2022 22:27
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Fashionable Jorts posted:I have legitimately seen people claim that the movie glorified the nazis Yup I’ve seen that too
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May 16, 2022 22:27
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CJacobs posted:Yeah that's a more interesting subject imo, what are some depictions of warfare as purely an allegory that have aged well? There are definitely more complex ways to make an anti-war statement than just showing one onscreen or making it a physical presence, I just can't think of any examples off the top of my head. The 4th season of Blackadder? It's set in the trenches of WW1, but for 5 1/2 episodes, it's "Blackadder tries to get away from the front lines" comedy and 1/2 episode of unfiltered despair. No real combat is shown, and the one time the British won a battle, they won a piece of land large enough to fit onto the general's desk, at horrific costs of life.
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May 16, 2022 22:31
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Blackhawk Down is absolutely not anti-war. It just plays sad music over US soldiers getting shot at, despite over a 100-1 ratio of enemies to US combatants killed during the conflict. Unrelated fun fact, the US military actually utilized the movies depiction of some of their tactics to learn how to better handle squads retrieving injured squad mates with minimizing risk to themselves.
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May 16, 2022 23:23
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rodbeard posted:Otherwise you end up like Scorcese who just refuses to reflect on the fact that a huge chunk of his audience completely miss the point of all his movies and just think that gangsters are cool. Good. It's not the artist's problem that the audience is too dumb to understand what they're watching. The Sopranos is a show about a group of stupid guys destroying the lives of everyone around them for the sake of maintaining the world's shittiest empire. It was not subtle about this. But it was still popular among the same type of stupid guys who saw themselves portrayed on screen.
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May 16, 2022 23:58
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Henchman of Santa posted:Good. It's not the artist's problem that the audience is too dumb to understand what they're watching. The Sopranos is a show about a group of stupid guys destroying the lives of everyone around them for the sake of maintaining the world's shittiest empire. It was not subtle about this. But it was still popular among the same type of stupid guys who saw themselves portrayed on screen. I think the distinction is Scorsese isn't making anti-gangster movies, he's telling a story about lovely people who do crimes. He's not trying to exhort an audience to crack down on gangsterism (see Gabriel Over The White House for that), he just wants them to reflect on themes of family or violence or capitalism... or just enjoy some good filmmaking. But an anti-war movie has a specific rhetorical goal, and if it's failing to convince its most significant audience (an advantage of an anti-war film is that it's much easier to get Joe American to watch a war movie than read a pamphlet), then it has a problem. And the problem is is that the medium of film is working against your goal, because visual depictions of violence are thrilling, the horror is gripping, and your efforts to make it monstrous are as likely to work against your aim by making war epic in its monstrosity. As far as I can tell, Truffaut never said it was "impossible," just that he hadn't seen an anti-war film succeed and he doubted he could pull it off either, and I think he's got a case there.
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May 17, 2022 00:49
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