|
boofhead posted:Those people I've noticed tend to have a need to feel smarter than other people, and for whom it's more important to believe they're right and clever than to actually self-reflect and thus grow, because that requires the capacity to acknowledge the possibility that they might be wrong The problem with this is of course that these people have been wrong about almost literally every single thing since the crisis started. It's kinda impressive that you could point at everything a tankie said and be pretty confident that the exact opposite would happen.
|
#
?
May 17, 2022 10:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 06:48 |
|
|
It's also worth noting that as a country where the national mythology revolves to a very large extent around the ideas of nationalism, independence and self-determination it's almost inevitable that there's going to be a disproportionate number of horrible right-wing ultranationalist shitheads taking a prominent role in Ukrainian history and folklore.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2022 10:27
|
|
|
Kikas posted:Well the last time one country dropped a nuke on another, both have reconsidered their approach. OK, then we agree.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2022 10:34
|
|
|
Rapulum_Dei posted:I didn’t realise that rocket powered GPS guided artillery shells were a thing. Sounds suspiciously wh40k-ish. Btw, that already exist and the drones are supposed to act as a swarm and do adaptive formation flying with multi angle swarm attacks and, I think, some form of individual target acquisition when in the target area. So yeah...
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2022 11:02
|
|
|
TenementFunster posted:why do you imagine that? do ukraine's neighbors have similar and influential neo-nazi groups such as the OUN-B and celebrate nazis like Bandera and other eager participants in the Holocaust? Yes. Yes they do. I'd say Romania has taken some good official attempts to approach their WW2 history, but many EE states struggle with historical narratives. Nationalists try to find a useable past and genuine freaks who either did nothing or helped in the Holocaust get lionized. I don't see how that warrants invasion though! "We should prove the narrative of eternal resistance to the moscowvite horde wrong by... invading!" FishBulbia fucked around with this message at 11:53 on May 17, 2022 |
|
#
?
May 17, 2022 11:04
|
|
|
Dick Ripple posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIZIspwem2s That’s really well done. Like a documentary version of Lebanon (the 2009 film). Probably he no one was filming when he was captured, it’s all taken on his cell phone and not a bodycam/GoPro. Kind of a relief that he’s just captured and that the phone wasn’t found with his body. I imagine the majority of Russian soldiers are just normal bros like this guy and not rapist murderers, although I guess this particular kid would have been cream of the crop in terms of training and talent/intelligence if he was from their top military school. Or a relative of someone important but looking at his home life, he looks like he’s from a totally average family. Also did his uncle Yuri piss himself before trying to crawl into bed?Jesus what a stereotype of a 50-something Russian uncle.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2022 11:12
|
|
|
FishBulbia posted:Yes. Yes they do. I'd say Romania has taken some good official attempts to approach their WW2 history, but many EE states struggle with historical narratives. Nationalists try to find a useable past and genuine freaks who either did nothing or helped in the Holocaust get lionized. It's not only EE either, Spain being one of the more obvious examples.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2022 11:31
|
|
|
Saladman posted:That’s really well done. Like a documentary version of Lebanon (the 2009 film). Probably he no one was filming when he was captured, it’s all taken on his cell phone and not a bodycam/GoPro. Yeah poor ol Yuri got done dirty My film dork nephew got captured in Ukraine and now an international public gets to see try to climb into bed with pissed pants
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2022 12:07
|
|
|
Doctor Malaver posted:I for one hope and expect that if nukes start flying around, the involved parties will reconsider their approach. No, the opposite would happen. Why? Because the strong normative pressure against using nuclear weapons in a conflict. In order to preserve that norm any offending party who used nuclear weapons because they are losing an aggressive invasion of another country would have to face very strong retaliation such that it is demonstrated to the world that the costs of escalating to nuclear weapon usage was not worth the advantage gained by using them. If this did not happen then suddenly the deep seated prohibition of using nuclear weapons during armed conflict would go away, which would lead to other countries using nuclear weapons, and would force nuclear proliferation as it would be clear the only way to deter nuclear aggression is to have nuclear weapons yourself.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2022 12:40
|
|
|
I'm seeing posts on Reddit that the Russian Parliament had reneged on an agreement and the Mariupol defenders are now NOT being swapped in a POW exchange. Any actual news on this?
Comstar fucked around with this message at 12:55 on May 17, 2022 |
|
#
?
May 17, 2022 12:45
|
|
|
Comstar posted:I'm seeing posts on Reddit that the Russian Parliament had reneged on an agreement and the Metrilpol defenders are now NOT being swapped in a POW exchange. Any actual news on this? Yes some parliamentarians are calling for them to be arrested as warcriminals rather than normal PoWs (which have been swapped throughout the conflict). If they're arrested as DNR prisoners they could face execution.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2022 12:48
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/MoscowTimes/status/1526504658025566209 https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/05/17/russia-says-256-azovstal-defenders-surrendered-a77705 quote:Ukraine’s defense ministry said Monday the fighters had been evacuated through humanitarian corridors to areas under Russian and Moscow-backed separatists’ control and that a further “exchange procedure” would take place later. As always it seems you can't trust Russians.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2022 12:57
|
|
|
I had been wondering about that. I would have assumed Russia would want to milk the fall of Mariupol and Azov as hard as they could for propaganda purposes, and a prisoner exchange seems like it would be hard to spin for their narrative.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2022 12:58
|
|
|
Comstar posted:I'm seeing posts on Reddit that the Russian Parliament had reneged on an agreement and the Mariupol defenders are now NOT being swapped in a POW exchange. Any actual news on this? Russian MPs are all certified worthless clowns fighting for the legacy of Zhirinovsky whose only purpose is akin to state TV pundits - scream embarassing nonsense that would make dear leader and executive branch look reasonable in comparison while keeping the core of public support happy and agitated. If the exchange was negotiated (and I presume it actually was, between people who can make decisions), their theater can be safely ignored.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2022 13:10
|
|
|
Atreiden posted:https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/05/17/russia-says-256-azovstal-defenders-surrendered-a77705 Man thats the most euphemism ridden war time reporting I've seen from the Ukrainian side. They surrendered on the condition of being PoWs.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2022 13:10
|
|
|
FishBulbia posted:Man thats the most euphemism ridden war time reporting I've seen from the Ukrainian side. They surrendered on the condition of being PoWs. As opposed to surrendering and being considered common criminals charged with terrorism, since if there's no declaration of war from the Kremlin there can't be any war prisoners.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2022 13:16
|
|
|
NTRabbit posted:As opposed to surrendering and being considered common criminals charged with terrorism, since if there's no declaration of war from the Kremlin there can't be any war prisoners. I'm talking specifically about the "evacuated through humanitarian corridors [to Russian detention camps]" Both sides have exchanged prisoners ostensibly under PoW rules though, so I don't know if the DoW really matters in this case.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2022 13:20
|
|
|
TenementFunster posted:does anyone want to actually talk about the bizarre, press release vibe of these articles about a Ukrainian defeat, or do you guys just wanna defend the Azov Battalion? i can post some more articles if you want! No but I like posting about the Russian Imperial Movement! Thanks for asking! quote:The Russian Imperial Movement (RIM) is an extreme-right, white supremacist militant organization based in St. Petersburg, Russia. Founded in 2002, the group promotes ethnic Russian nationalism, advocates the restoration of Russia’s tsarist regime, and seeks to fuel white supremacy extremism in the West. RIM maintains contacts with neo-Nazi and white supremacist groups across Europe and the United States. The group has provided paramilitary training to Russian nationals and members of like-minded organizations from other countries at its facilities in St. Petersburg. Members of RIM’s armed wing, the Imperial Legion, have fought alongside pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine and been involved in conflicts in Libya and Syria. In addition to its ultra-nationalist beliefs, RIM is known for its anti-Semitic and anti-Ukrainian views. The U.S. State Department listed RIM as a Specially Designated Global Terrorist (SDGT) in April 2020. It is the first white supremacist group to be designated as a SDGT.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2022 13:29
|
|
|
Curious whether ISW will lead off their report today with “Ukraine has lost the Battle of Mariupol”
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2022 13:46
|
|
|
Bremen posted:I mean, if you're worried about them becoming martyrs it probably does. That's also what I was able to find. Initial 2014 crew were mostly football hooligan skinheads, that did a lot of sidegigs as hired muscle and some other usual crimes. After that looks like attrition and rotations did their thing. If there were a proof Azov did something Nazi-like after 2015 we would hear about it. Kremlin loves to about about them to a point where people started treating them like corps sized Wolfenstein-style strike troops. While in 2014 they were one of ~40 volunteer battalions, and before February they had maybe 2000 troops. It's just they are good at propaganda and milk the Kremlin spotlight for all they can. Some more info: https://oko.press/the-azov-regiment-neo-nazis-football-hooligans-or-defenders-of-ukraine/ posted:Volunteer battalions started to form in Ukraine at the beginning of the conflict in Donbas. One out of the 40 is largely made up of extreme-right activists and football hooligans, mainly from Kharkiv, but also from Kiev.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2022 13:47
|
|
|
clusterfuck posted:No but I like posting about the Russian Imperial Movement! Thanks for asking! Let’s talk about the National Bolsheviks while we are at it.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2022 13:54
|
|
|
Regarding the Azov Battalion in 2014 and now, I find this BBC report and this twitter thread really interesting. the thread is long read, but worth it as it goes into the transformation the battalion has gone through regarding politics. https://twitter.com/BBCRosAtkins/status/1506988213637890048 https://twitter.com/MelaniePodolyak/status/1510535081194098691 Nika Melkozerova also had an interesting short thread about it. https://twitter.com/NikaMelkozerova/status/1525881081811161090 And just a fun little observation regarding the wolfsangel. It should be noted that Wedemark is by no means to only place its used in municipal coat of arms in Germany. https://twitter.com/NikaMelkozerova/status/1526519886456971264
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2022 13:55
|
|
|
Looks like Sweden & Finland will officially apply for NATO membership tomorrow. Finland just passed the parliamentary vote that sealed the deal. Sweden already has its application ready and has been just waiting for Finland.
Zat fucked around with this message at 14:03 on May 17, 2022 |
|
#
?
May 17, 2022 14:00
|
|
|
Zat posted:Looks like Sweden & Finland will officially apply for NATO membership tomorrow. Finland just passed the parliamentary vote that sealed the deal. Sweden already has its application ready and has been just waiting for Finland. Will be "interesting" to see what hysterionics Erdogan will pull in response to this.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2022 14:08
|
|
|
Atreiden posted:And just a fun little observation regarding the wolfsangel. It should be noted that Wedemark is by no means to only place its used in municipal coat of arms in Germany. You can also find swastikas on Greek and Vedic art. I don't see how that changes its meaning. It was originally accompanied with a sonnenrad, another ancient symbol you can find on art. All of this is from the same source as other post soviet neo-pagan nationalists who were inspired by soviet historical fantasy about the bygone days of ancient rus. That was the local cultural leftovers that people had laying around to create new identities.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2022 14:19
|
|
|
FishBulbia posted:You can also find swastikas on Greek and Vedic art. I don't see how that changes its meaning. It was originally accompanied with a sonnenrad, another ancient symbol you can find on art. All of this is from the same source as other post soviet neo-pagan nationalists who were inspired by soviet historical fantasy about the bygone days of ancient rus. That was the local cultural leftovers that people had laying around to create new identities. Yes I'm sure you can't see the difference between the wolfsangel still being used today in Germany and your garble about ancient symbols that aren't used in Germany today. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2022 14:22
|
|
|
Zat posted:Looks like Sweden & Finland will officially apply for NATO membership tomorrow. Finland just passed the parliamentary vote that sealed the deal. Sweden already has its application ready and has been just waiting for Finland. Yep Finland's vote just passed with 188 for, 8 against, 3 not present. Article in English Gotta say that "for" votes number is even higher than I expected
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2022 14:25
|
|
|
What even is the meaning on that logo? Lion: "Your trap doesn't work on me, it is for wolves" and is trampling it. "Your acorns are mine"
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2022 14:25
|
|
|
Atreiden posted:Yes I'm sure you can't see the difference between the wolfsangel still being used today in Germany and your garble about ancient symbols that aren't used in Germany today. You really can't decontextualize this. The football fan club types of the racist persuasion draw inspiration from a neopaganist aesthetic that became popular due to historical speculative fiction -- often for anti-semitic reasons. They're not philologists interested in proto-germanic morphemes.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2022 14:28
|
|
|
Atreiden posted:Ukraine’s defense ministry said Monday the fighters had been evacuated through humanitarian corridors to areas under Russian and Moscow-backed separatists’ control and that a further “exchange procedure” would take place later. At least TenementFunster was right in the discussion on the propaganda framing of this. It's pretty hilarious. "No no, they didn't surrender and be taken prisoner, they were humanitarianly evacuated to 'areas under Russian control'" Lol, what the hell is that?
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2022 14:30
|
|
|
jaete posted:Yep Finland's vote just passed with 188 for, 8 against, 3 not present. Article in English The "against" votes were mostly from Left Alliance which is a relatively small party, half of them are old Stalinists and the other half are modern "city green" anti-nuclear power anti-nuclear weapons type people (oversimplified, but not massively so). Left Alliance has 16 MPs and of them, 6 voted against and the other 10 voted for, so the majority of them were pro NATO accession. (The big, more mainstream left party is SDP which is the current prime minister's party, they have 40 MPs) The other two "against" votes were some guy from the "Finns", a right-wing populist party (think Brexit, Trump; similar stuff) and one insane Putinist dude who was kicked out of Finns for being too racist. One of the Left Alliance MPs made a counter motion, which said simply that Finland should remain neutral, since "only outside military alliances does Finland have the possibility to remain, in the event of a great war, outside the war" (my translation). This is a perfectly reasonable stance, but imo it kinda misses the mark. I see NATO membership rather as a soft guarantee that this great war does not start by Finland being invaded, and it seems most voters and MPs see it similarly
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2022 14:36
|
|
|
FishBulbia posted:That was the local cultural leftovers that people had laying around to create new identities. 300-400 years from now is going to be wild when neo-planetist are flying macdonlds flags on their starships. Like as a society we are creating more amazing art then ever before, but man is our cultural leftovers not going to be that.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2022 14:37
|
|
|
Preen Dog posted:What even is the meaning on that logo? quote:The green mountain symbolises the Brelinger Berge landscape conservation area in the middle of the municipality; the oak tree refers to the formerly dense oak forests and to the still rich stock today (Wede = forest or wood). The 16 leaves stand for the original 16 districts (since 2011: 17), the three acorns for the former joint municipalities of Bissendorf, Mellendorf and Elze. The blue lion recalls the centuries-long inclusion of the municipal area into the Welfish part-principality of Lüneburg. The Wolfsangel is a reminder that the area of the newly formed municipality belonged to the former district of Burgdorf. It should be noted that while the novel predates the Nazis and is set during the 30 year war, it was heavily promoted during the reign of the Nazis.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2022 14:39
|
|
|
alex314 posted:That's also what I was able to find. Initial 2014 crew were mostly football hooligan skinheads, that did a lot of sidegigs as hired muscle and some other usual crimes. After that looks like attrition and rotations did their thing. If there were a proof Azov did something Nazi-like after 2015 we would hear about it. Edit: Found the full video. The aesthetic is borrowed from the Third Reich's "cathedrals of light" https://twitter.com/BBlues60/status/1518556918712778753 BrutalistMcDonalds fucked around with this message at 14:52 on May 17, 2022 |
|
#
?
May 17, 2022 14:46
|
|
|
BrutalistMcDonalds posted:Who's we? I really think that's an attempt to whitewash their image because it's politically inconvenient. I think their YouTube channel has been taken down but I watched the full video where this clip was taken from earlier this year (when it was posted). It might be, though I've noticed a lot of Ukrainians don't think they are nazis now, while acknowledging their founder and many early members where neo-nazis or at least far-right nationalists.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2022 14:52
|
|
|
Dick Ripple posted:Probably the same people who decided to invade Ukraine because of Nazis and in order to prevent an attack by NATO. So what do you suppose we do then to avoid such a scenario?
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2022 14:53
|
|
|
OddObserver posted:What will be tricky is finding the right balance between rejecting Russian cultural colonialism and protecting domestic Russian-speaking culture. (Something that's historically has been attempted in poorly considered and heavy-handed ways). There may also something of an opportunity for throwing the ghost of Bandera into trash --- opposing NKVD may be respectable, but terrorism against Poland, when Polish people are such friends and took care of,so many Ukrainian refugees? Thing with Bandera is that his ghost is bigger than he ever was in life, largely thanks to Soviet propaganda about him. The guy was reprehensible and is only really pushed by a certain type of nationalist emigre who also would think modern ukrainians aren't true ukrainians.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2022 15:00
|
|
|
Oh ffs France and Germany. https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1526268057768890371 https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1526271291392761856 https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2022/5/16/eu-gives-companies-green-light-to-buy-gas-from-russia quote:Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki criticized the EU for softening its stance on ruble payments.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2022 15:02
|
|
|
Willo567 posted:So what do you suppose we do then to avoid such a scenario? I'm going to take the liberty of quoting Telsa Cola (and myself) here: Telsa Cola posted:It would be nice if instead of a series of one sentence questions which is essentially all you ever post in this thread and others about world wide crisis you expanded upon your thoughts. PerilPastry posted:
Atreiden posted:Oh ffs France and Germany. Maybe someone can break this down a little? As I understand it this is a little less egregious than it sounds due to the conversion thing? PerilPastry fucked around with this message at 15:08 on May 17, 2022 |
|
#
?
May 17, 2022 15:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 06:48 |
|
|
Fidelitious posted:At least TenementFunster was right in the discussion on the propaganda framing of this. It's pretty hilarious. Sure but then there's also plenty of articles that frame it as Russian redeployment of forces from Kyiv to the Donbas and not Russia was defeated in the Battle of Kyiv and retreated. Why does it matter though? Regardless of wording the net result is the same.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2022 15:09
|
|