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I'm watching Turins tournament stream right now and Ku'gath managed to get 9900 value in one battle. I, uh, guess they buffed him. Don't underestimate mortis effects.
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May 17, 2022 21:05
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The mount skill point change is also a minor buff to the AI because it absolutely loved to grab every mount as they became available so that's a few more skill points it can toss into -2% city siege attrition.
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May 17, 2022 22:18
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Wouldn't want a Warhammer character to look weird I'm the steak knife.
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May 17, 2022 22:18
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Greenskins vs ogres is gonna be rough
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May 18, 2022 02:56
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The Daemon Prince gets all four of the new demonic RoRs. That's neat. On the character select screen, Zhao Ming is the first choice for Cathay and has the "Recommended first campaign" tag. Was it always like that?
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May 18, 2022 05:04
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Dr Christmas posted:The Daemon Prince gets all four of the new demonic RoRs. That's neat. No. The recommended starts used to be Kislev and Prince.
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May 18, 2022 05:34
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Cease to Hope posted:No. The recommended starts used to be Kislev and Prince. I knew that. I checked again, and those recommendations are gone. Now, only Zhao Ming has the recommendation.
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May 18, 2022 06:30
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Having a go at the game on Gamepass. I think there is a way to install mods, but every link I find points me to the Workshop. Is there a nexusmods or something like that for the game?
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May 18, 2022 07:22
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The Workshop
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May 18, 2022 07:27
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So everything looks good in that patch and then looking deeper...there are lots of small buffs to ranged AP. Like a lot of small buffs that add up. Kossars get up to 5 more now. That poo poo is a lot! One thing I had a lot of fun with in WH3 and thought they succeeded on was making ranged AP fire less impactful. I'm worried they are swinging back the other way. I already rarely brought Streltsi, now if kossars are even better against armor, why would i ever?
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May 18, 2022 13:34
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Fat Samurai posted:Having a go at the game on Gamepass. I think there is a way to install mods, but every link I find points me to the Workshop. Is there a nexusmods or something like that for the game? TWW as a series has half a decade of modders getting entrenched with only releasing mods on the steam workshop, so game pass/egs owners are probably boned with regards to mods. Ravenfood posted:So everything looks good in that patch and then looking deeper...there are lots of small buffs to ranged AP. Like a lot of small buffs that add up. Kossars get up to 5 more now. That poo poo is a lot! "Giving everyone tons of ranged AP" seems to be a hallmark of the post-launch DLC/support team's balance preferences, so that's probably the direction we're headed. I guess it'll help Cathay and Kislev keep parity once IE lands and everyone has to face darkshard machine guns and sisters of avelorn again.
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May 18, 2022 13:36
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Kanos posted:"Giving everyone tons of ranged AP" seems to be a hallmark of the post-launch DLC/support team's balance preferences, so that's probably the direction we're headed. I guess it'll help Cathay and Kislev keep parity once IE lands and everyone has to face darkshard machine guns and sisters of avelorn again.
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May 18, 2022 13:49
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There needs to be room for both AP and non AP archers besides economical choices.
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May 18, 2022 13:54
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I really think almost every faction shouldn’t get ranged AP. Just, like, high elfs, dwarfs, and empire. Makes being able to field guns a big deal.
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May 18, 2022 13:57
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Severly restrict arcing fire, lower AP for non-magical bows but keep them shooting fast(Maybe even faster with lower arc), get crossbows in the middle with some AP, some arc but lower RoF than bows and then guns for the really heavy AP burst damage but with lowest RoF and no arc. Then make different units have different spreads within this, so darkshards have lower AP than Empire Crossbows but higher RoF and double shots, while dwarfs might have higher AP but lower RoF etc etc. Always make sure there is some payoff and have Empire be the standard to deviate from.
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May 18, 2022 14:23
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Refreshingly, my time spent with 3 has me largely more focused on how fast various ranged units die when hit from all sides.
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May 18, 2022 14:29
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Twigand Berries posted:Refreshingly, my time spent with 3 has me largely more focused on how fast various ranged units die when hit from all sides. Thats why Slaanesh is the best faction! No range, only speed and brutal, brutal murder 
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May 18, 2022 14:33
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The post IE multiplayer scene is gonna be hilarious for the likes of Ogres and Slaanesh. Maybe even Khorne and Nurgle's glacial asses. Just absolutely annihilating ranged heavy play. Also what's this about Kugash getting mortis? Did they finally make my 20k HP boy the engine of doom every other GUO is?
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May 18, 2022 14:33
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Third World Reagan posted:There needs to be room for both AP and non AP archers besides economical choices.
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May 18, 2022 14:42
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Why not? Wasn't such a thing?
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May 18, 2022 15:10
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Third World Reagan posted:There needs to be room for both AP and non AP archers besides economical choices. TWW1 already hit the proper balance point, which is that archers get arcing fire but have poo poo AP while gunpowder units have flat trajectory fire and LOS problems but have devastating AP. Basically the only standard archers in TWW1 that had real AP were starfire glade guard and waywatchers, which were both DLC units in a faction built around a weak frontline and skirmish fighting. Then TWW2 invented darkshards and the lid was off the cookie jar. AP on archers is way more dangerous and unbalancing than AP on flat trajectory gunpowder units because archers can be used en masse and focus fire much more easily. Kanos fucked around with this message at 15:34 on May 18, 2022 |
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May 18, 2022 15:26
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Most ranged outside of guns or magical bows really shouldn't have ap damage at all. Even crossbows can't really penetrate plate (though they leave some dents and maybe holes) and their arc of fire is ridiculous. My guess is the arc of fire on crossbows and the bit of AP damage they give is so it looks worth it to upgrade.
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May 18, 2022 15:30
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Doomykins posted:Also what's this about Kugash getting mortis? Did they finally make my 20k HP boy the engine of doom every other GUO is? Yeah, he can get it in multiplayer now. It was pretty incredible, he just sat on the middle point the whole match not dying and killing everything with his sheer stinkiness. Kanos posted:TWW1 already hit the proper balance point, which is that archers get arcing fire but have poo poo AP while gunpowder units have flat trajectory fire and LOS problems but have devastating AP. Basically the only standard archers in TWW1 that had real AP were starfire glade guard and waywatchers, which were both DLC units in a faction built around a weak frontline and skirmish fighting. Then TWW2 invented darkshards and the lid was off the cookie jar. I believe that darkshards having AP was supposed to be their unique gimmick from tabletop. Opening it up afterward to give that to other factions was a big mistake, yeah.
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May 18, 2022 16:06
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Nephthys posted:I believe that darkshards having AP was supposed to be their unique gimmick from tabletop. Opening it up afterward to give that to other factions was a big mistake, yeah. Sometimes you can't translate mechanics directly from a turn-based tabletop game to a real time strategy game and have it not gently caress everything up, unfortunately.
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May 18, 2022 16:16
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I had like a 20 territory Clan Mors confederate into Clan Eshin with like Pigbarter and stuff I can't remember who I was playing I just remember thinking oh god AP gutter runners
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May 18, 2022 16:32
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Nephthys posted:I believe that darkshards having AP was supposed to be their unique gimmick from tabletop. Opening it up afterward to give that to other factions was a big mistake, yeah. The problem being darkshard's are a low tier archer. Once you give that to one faction then overall balance starts getting skewed around fact that they exist.
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May 18, 2022 16:37
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Ranged ap could be balanced to have it be the superior choice vs enemies above x armor, but have the minimal ap ranged have much better base damage which will be better vs high hp/low armor features like Savage orcs.
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May 18, 2022 16:39
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Kanos posted:Sometimes you can't translate mechanics directly from a turn-based tabletop game to a real time strategy game and have it not gently caress everything up, unfortunately. Don't Darkshards have like only 90 range though, compared to 145-160 for most other factions' low level archer tier units? I don't see Dark Elves dominating the multiplayer scene or dominating Mortal Empires much. Is there really a problem with mass AP archer units in the game? This is the first I've ever heard of this concern.
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May 18, 2022 16:48
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It makes singleplayer a touch more boring to know your T1 is right there waiting to carry you throughout the entire campaign. Obviously it's gamer brain to not just ignore that and do what you think is fun this run through.. and the problem solves itself in pvp where mass ranged is a classic weakness. But yeah, the AI can't complain. It just homogenizes some factions like High Elves where your elites are "super archers" and "not super archers." Also in my experience Dark Elves always dominate post potion of speed ME but that's a problem with their territory/confeds/black ark weighting.
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May 18, 2022 16:54
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Crazy Joe Wilson posted:Don't Darkshards have like only 90 range though, compared to 145-160 for most other factions' low level archer tier units? They're at 125 range, which means they get outranged by most other dedicated archer units(180 for high elf archers, 170 for glade guard, 160 for empire crossbows), but are low tier, almost pure AP, and silver shielded. Multiplayer is a completely and totally different animal from campaign and balance concerns in MP and SP don't necessarily translate to each other. As for Mortal Empires, it was generally fairly understood that if you wanted to ultimate cheese mode and win ME automatically you just built stacks of nothing but AP ranged units if your faction could support it. Mass armies of Shades, Sisters of Avelorn, Waywatchers, etc. were functionally unbeatable by the AI. Mass arcing fire ranged is honestly a campaign balance problem even without AP - see how you can win a Kislev campaign in TWW3 just by spamming Kossars for 90% of the game - but free access to AP simply removes one of the few things your army has problems with. Kanos fucked around with this message at 17:02 on May 18, 2022 |
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May 18, 2022 17:00
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I've often considered the superiority of Ikit's gunline is largely all the different pretty colors.
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May 18, 2022 17:13
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A few pages late, but I think part of the IE delay is that more things have changed between games than is immediately obvious. I've only really looked at items and ancillaries to update my mods so people will stop complaining at me, but it seems like there are more changes under the hood than I remember between WH1 and WH2. They're mostly small things that wouldn't jump out at you in game, but there's quite a few of them. E.g. in item/ancillary land unit hp regen/healing is now all percentage based (used to use flat values) and winds of magic regen received the same changes, the system used for determining what items/ancillaries randomly drop in the campaign was completely overhauled, and the tooltip system for items and ancillaries is totally different. I expect if you poked around in other systems you'd find similar stuff, and that a chunk of the delay is that they have to address updating all of the content from the first two games to account for it. Unless I'm mistaken (I can't be arsed to reinstall WH2 to confirm) it seems like the universal items and ancillaries from the first two games also received a round of changes for balance/usability, while the stuff that's only accessible to races you can't play in campaign hasn't, so they may be dealing with that as well.
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May 18, 2022 18:04
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Do shielded ranged units get the shield protection when firing? Seems the shield stays on their back forever.
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May 18, 2022 18:07
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jokes posted:Do shielded ranged units get the shield protection when firing? Seems the shield stays on their back forever. yes ask me about quarrelers and how I detest them for beign ork arrer boyz with shields
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May 18, 2022 18:38
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Nephthys posted:Yeah, he can get it in multiplayer now. It was pretty incredible, he just sat on the middle point the whole match not dying and killing everything with his sheer stinkiness. He is the UrGoon. 
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May 18, 2022 18:49
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jokes posted:Do shielded ranged units get the shield protection when firing? Seems the shield stays on their back forever. Yes, this is why they are particularly good vs other ranged units. Shield Block is always active so long as the projectiles are hitting the front arc of the unit.
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May 18, 2022 19:01
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I dont know posted:The problem being darkshard's are a low tier archer. Once you give that to one faction then overall balance starts getting skewed around fact that they exist. Right but because they were low tier I don't think they ever really dominated the meta, did they? I thought they would be ridiculously unbalanced when WH2 released but they ended up losing to Lothern Sea Guard most of the time or run down by cav and they weren't cost-effective in multiplayer iirc.
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May 18, 2022 19:30
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Nephthys posted:Right but because they were low tier I don't think they ever really dominated the meta, did they? I thought they would be ridiculously unbalanced when WH2 released but they ended up losing to Lothern Sea Guard most of the time or run down by cav and they weren't cost-effective in multiplayer iirc. You can win a dark elf campaign fairly easily by building nothing but darkshards and a few throwaway spearmen until your economy is strong enough to transition to mass shades, which are themselves just Better Darkshards.
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May 18, 2022 19:38
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Yeah i never figured out why they didn't add depth by making the different ranged units unique. Give bows longer range arcing shots with almost no AP or a direct fire short range AP mode. Make crossbows have shallow arcs with a high chance to stagger but use less vigor to operate. You'd change how entire races would operate which would be great and you'd add some versatility.
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May 18, 2022 19:46
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I liked the anti-large bow boys that Empire gets from that one expansion.
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May 18, 2022 19:58
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